When the ideas are flowing, it's hard to stop them.
After more discussions with @hivetrending regarding @commentrewarder and other cool things that could make hive even more fun to use, I brought up an old idea I've been meaning to dive deeper into and maybe even bring to light at some point.
This one's quite a bit more complex, though as there are some abuse-factors to try and avoid. If those are covered it could very well make the action of reblogging a post quite different from the current mostly altruistic reason to do so.
What does a reblog do?
It's quite frankly sharing a post to your followers. When you reblog a post, it will show up on the feed of people following you who are browsing their follower feed. This is a great way to bring attention to a post from an account who may have been overlooked.
The problem and abuse factor is that it is free and limitless.
Anyone can reblog, it only costs a little RC and there's no limit to how many posts you can reblog. Some accounts automatically reblog all of my posts in the first second they are posted for instance. That is one of the abuse vectors we have to eliminate if we want to add rewards of any kind to reblogs.
Stake-based following.
Having followers is also easy to fake, one could create many accounts that belong to yourself and follow your main account you'd attempt to "boost". This inflates numbers and doesn't improve things like engagement, upvote rewards on your posts or anything real of value. What isn't easy to fake, though, is having followers who also have stake in Hive.
A proposed addition to the equation of reward distribution of @reblogrewarder would be to take into account the combined stake of a participating account's following.
Exhibit A.
Account Alice has 500 followers, out of the 500 who follow her, their combined HP is 100,000.
Account Bob has 1000 followers and out of them their combined HP is 50,000.
When Alice and Bob reblog a post they compete for the reblogrewards up for the taking. If no other parameters are included yet, this means that Alice should receive 66.66% of the reblog rewards while Bob receives the remaining 33.33%.
Gamification.
Remember when we used to change how curation used to work? Reward those voting early more than those voting late at the cost of late voters. Same but add a 5min penalty window. Add quadratic increase to rewards when voting early, etc, etc, until we landed back to what we currently have, linear rewards based on post age.
The good news for reblog rewards is that it wouldn't require a hardfork to be changed and tested. Since the rewards are handled by a party who has control of them before sending them out, they could also be fine-tuned in different ways to remove or blacklist accounts attempting to cheat their way into effortless rewards.
We could experiment with reward curves when it comes to reblogs, take snapshots of rewards at the time of a reblog, exclude same following accounts of rebloggers after you, etc. Let's look into some examples.
Example 1:
Alice posts about her beekeeping and places a 20% beneficiary to @reblogrewarder, her post sits at $5 pending rewards when Bob notices it and wants it to be seen by other hivers more. He decides to reblog it and after some time has passed more votes have landed on Alice's post which is now standing at $20. 80% of the rewards generated after the reblog were from Bob's following, those same voters did not follow Alice before the fact. The post pays out at $20 and Bob receives 80 of the 20% beneficiary bounty with the rest going back to Alice or being sent to @null.promote
Example 2:
Alice posts about her beekeeping and places a 20% beneficiary to @reblogrewarder, her post sits at $5 pending rewards when Bob notices it and reblogs it. The post gets to $10 when Charlie notices it and reblogs it as well.
Bob gets an early reblogger advantage compared to Charlie. At the same time half of Charlie's following is the same as Bob so 50% of his following's HP is void in the equation. The post ends up at $15, Bob gets 10% boost cause he reblogged it first, Charlie gets a -50% decrease due to the similar followers they share. Bob reblogged it at $5 and it ended up at $15, he's entitled to 100% of reblog-rewards from $5 to $10, 66.66% for the rewards from $10 to $20 and an additional 10% from Charlie for having reblogged it before him. Bob receives (my math can only get me this far this late at night) ~most of the reblog rewards while Charlie receives some.
There's still a lot to consider here and to check if it is feasible in terms of API requests and other aspects to determine the share of reblog rewards to each reblogger. For instance if someone following Charlie but not Bob was the main upvoter that got the post from $10 to $15, Charlie should then get the lion's share of those rewards.
Point is there's a lot of cool gamification possible here to make good reblogging worth it.
Reblogging has been quite unevolved over the years, we still don't have a way to reblog posts we deem fitting to a certain community rather than to our feeds. (@howo, when?) Experimenting with different ways to avoid rewarding bots and abusers while placing more value on people to reblog well could make the platform better in terms of assisting curators and at the same time even promoting your content better and even placing more weight having followers with stake.
Rebloggers could also receive different scores to set them apart even more from farmers/bots over time that could be included in the equation.
There could be limits of daily reblogs, your first few being the more important ones that'll get you most of the reblog rewards while the next ones would have diminishing returns on your returns forcing you to stop reblogging more than x times if you're only doing it for the rewards, for instance.
We're posting this proto-type idea in hopes of getting feedback from the community and potentially even more ideas and solutions to improve it before we'd start working on it to bring it to reality.
So please, reblog this post (no I'm not sending beneficiaries to @reblogrewarder yet :P) and let us know your thoughts!
This is awesome! You just put a smile on my face :) I never thought about this before because, as you mentioned, reblogging is typically a "one-click" action that doesn't require much time or resources.
I see the value of reblogging if the person doing it has a good number of active followers with a strong amount of HP. It makes rewarding rebloggers worthwhile. With the conditions you're planning to implement, you're taking the decision of who gets rewarded out of the author's hands (unlike with @commentrewarder). To me, this is great because it encourages rewarding meaningful reblogs. It also reassures me that those being rewarded have a legitimate reason—to boost the visibility of the post, gain more engagement, and possibly earn more upvotes.
For me, Example 2 is the option I'd go with, especially with the added condition @arc7icwolf pointed out.
I don’t have anything to add, haha! I like to think of myself as more of a creative person than a mathematician 😅.
Lastly, I’ve been using @commentrewarder on all my recent posts, and I’ve already noticed a positive impact on both rewards and engagement. I’ll definitely use @reblogrewarder as well—I think they complement each other perfectly in helping boost a post’s reach. Thanks for continually expanding the possibilities and making this platform even more exciting!
So now voting first is better than voting later, right? There's no more 5 min penalty? I know that this is not the main topic of the post, but I never really understood if there are (or not) some hidden rules I don't know when curating 😅
Btw, the idea of rewarding reblogs is very cool, as it incentivizes interaction between users (which is something that often is lacking here on Hive), but I think that to make the system more fair it should also be taken into account how much active are the followers of the reblogger: there are plenty of users with thousands of followers most of which aren't anymore active (even if sometimes they keep upvoting through curation trail), but these inactive followers shouldn't be considered, as they aren't really bringing any more views/upvotes/engagement to the reblogged author.
Not sure if adding a criteria like this is feasible, though!
good point! yeah the total hp of followers could only count if they've been active the last year or so similar to governance votes.
currently curation is linear, doesn't matter when you vote unless you vote after 24h.
Thanks!
To determine if an account counts as active or not, I feel only posts and comments should be taken into consideration: upvotes can easily be misleading due to curation trails, which (at least as far as I know) stay active forever (which is something very bad imho, because they can be easily abused if the upvoter stop checking what people are publishing and forget to deactivate the curation trail... but this is a completely different topic! 😅)
Yeah if the abuse becomes excessive there's always downvotes to help deter it.
Again awesome addition to reward engagement and sharing on the platform and I'm sure many people would love to use reblogrewarder, but this is something that I don't see myself using.
It's just my personal preference that I want to keep my blog page as clean as possible and I only reblog posts if I think they are really good . . . and I mean REALLY good, to the point of visual amazement :D
But then again reblogging is awesome, I discover a lot of new users and awesome posts from my "Following Feed" through reblogged posts.
yeah I'm quite reserved when it comes to reblogs as well! but why not earn a little something for doing it well!
Same here, and follows my principle of having two accounts. One for "mystuff" and then another for the "I am all over the place" stuff. But yep, being optional quite makes the point.
Honestly in last period I see reblogged posts often enough. But to implement reward addition to to this action is very attractive idea. On the other side we should remember that it can born ideas for abuse. So before implementation it's needed to prevent any abuse on this field.
Also about calculating all HP maybe people can suggest better idea how to calculate rewards not only based on commutative HP but also some other aspects... 🤔 Also how to calculate HP if remember that some people can lease or delegate HP?
Leasing is quite dead but I'd say it would only count for real hivepower, not delegated. Keep in mind this also only matters when counting your follower's total HP, not your own, but maybe your own could have some impact as well to prevent abuse?
Either way, there's a lot of different factors here and the idea can evolve quite a lot.
I think @travoved brought up an important point. Is it possible that the HP considered will be "Effective HP"? The Hivestats.io website accurately displays the Effective HP a user has.
There are people who have significantly more HP than their actual owned HP because they are leasing it from others. Similarly, some accounts have much less Effective HP because they've delegated their HP to others. I think the best metric to consider for the reblogger's followers' total HP should be their "Effective HP."
The original idea wouldn't depend much on how much effective HP the reblogger has, more about the HP their followers have and how much of it potentially ends up voting on the post after the reblog.
It's quite a complicated idea, probably start off simple and evolve after that. We'd also need to figure out a way to fund the work towards it if we'd wanna keep the service feeless as well.
Agree with this. It seems complicated but I would like it to be implemented.
If the DHF is funding community projects, I think it makes sense to also fund tools/projects like comment and reblog rewards, and possibly more in the future, to boost engagement on the platform. This could potentially increase user retention as well. You might want to consider submitting a proposal for it.
I think if people will suggest and help with ideas how to realize this on Hive it'll be win-win way for community and for Hive!
Let your example fill up my statistics - how many of these reblogs were useful to you and you'd feel pity to miss the info?
I use not often reblog function in my case. For last couple years it was nearly three times. And it were that posts which I'd like to have under my hands at that moment. As example Hive Swap Calculator, or post how to get liquidity pool with python. And yes post about how to cook burgers was also under my attention when saw it, coz sometimes we like to make this cooking experiments at home))
Ecency has its system for reblogging. You get Points...
interesting, didn't know
In fact, you get points for each activity—writing, commenting, voting, reblogging, and more.
Yep, although they are static points... and sometimes I wished they would not be, some of them at least. To avoid abuse...
Some of them are dynamics, like those for the comments or upvotes:
Not sure about the others, though, because I never checked!
Humm... didn't know about that either! Good we are decentralized to check this stuff...
Test !FUN (sorry just testing for another comment)
Point for comments depends on length of your comment :)
I like the direction of the idea... it will being at least more thoughts into attention.
Yep, this could be easily done via a random distance from the post curation time. Let's say, if you last 10 reblogs are within a X% variance of time since the post was created, then lower the rewards until zero.
Obviously bots can start introducing randomness into their algos, but then they are already competing with humans that can be faster then them.
Ideally, (in my view) would be if reblogging would have an exponential function in terms of RC cost for that particular account, (although that would require a HF most likely).
This allows your first few reblogs to be "cheap", but then if you continue with the same rate, it increases RC exponentially. Alternatively do the same with rewards, like the more you reblog, the less rewards you get (which I think is the one you mentioned). 🤣
Anyhow, the idea of gamifying attention is very interesting. I have always struggled with the value of paying for promotion. Where if almost no-one is looking there, what is the value of the "service". And followers usually are a much more competitive/efficient way of promoting. At least on HIVE...
Maybe the communities would be another great thing to think about. The cross posting could be also leveraged like the reblogs. But in this case, the mute function might need to be the higher controlling factor (in conjunction with the reblog mechanisms).
I am a bit on the fence on this. I think reblogging is cool and nice, and it can help find new content that I wouldn't have seen before. But I've also seen some of the people I follow reblog a lot of posts. This ended up taking up too much of my feed. I ended up unfollowing them. What I'm afraid of happening with this, is that people will be reblogging a lot of things just for the reward.
Same. I take reblog as a little evil, when my feed becomes diluted with 5-10 posts in a row from authors I dont follow, I simply feel sick (as I am a natural folk with informational disease and limited info bandwidth; I also used to manual curating...). I do very little reblogs myself, and frankly, adore the same policy from the ones I follow). 🙃 When information becomes diluted at high percentage - it turn into a noise - and one have to switch off the fridgebuzzing.
Yeah I also get annoyed some times when someone new I follow starts spam reblogging, there's a way to filter your feed to exclude reblogs using @peakd but I get your point. That was also a reason I recommended a diminishing returns feature where let's say as a start we could have it where only the first 3 reblogs can give u rewards to avoid spam.
Wait, I use peakd. How does one go about doing this filter? This is the first time I've heard of this haha.
ps. at least I can do the thing now. but, heh, still suspicios. the thing is, that a good reblog is precious and useful, and I'd like to get one or two in a while from my friends who dont abuse this feature. and we come to the starting point of this circle - one have to unfollow the very active reblogging persons, if he wants to get some fresh info from his friends reblogs...
We need a feature from the front-ends to just mute reblogs from a specific person without unfollowing them. Will be really handy.
Excellent idea, very fruitful and would be really handy! 👍
Oh wow, thank you very much for that.
I didnt know about this feature. thank you too!
Too cool! All the new tools popping up for users here lately have been nice…
!PIZZA
Reblog for me, is in some way the way to show some respect or interest on a post. Getting rewards from it could change the focus of the initial intention but this is web3 man and web3 need to keep moving on!! So letsssgo! !LUV !DOOK
@acidyo, @fonestreet(1/1) sent you LUV. | tools | discord | community | HiveWiki | <>< daily
it would be quite opt-in to start with similar to commentrewarder. you can always just reblog posts like usual even if they don't offer reblog rewards.
if at some point we would optimize it to a way mant would agree is amazing then we could attempt to reward it in other ways than authors to forfeit part of their rewards for it.
While I am still new to Hive I think any functionality that incentivises reblogging and rewards that is a win win. So long as there are controls in place to ensure abuse does not occur why should there not be more incentive to reblog.
From what I have read in your post and from what I understand of the Hive system and wider ecosystem I would imagine there are a few nuts and bolts to work out before implementing such an idea. But given that innovation is one of Hive's greatest strengths and we clearly have the technology to implement your reblog concept, albeit with a few tweaks if needed, there should be no reason why it can't succeed.
Let's be honest who doesn't like seeing their own posts reblogged? Precisely.
Seems like a interesting idea. But I don't think that I would use this as much as a comment rewarder. I don't want my blog to be full of someone else posts.
But you reblogged this post.
I've said for a long time now that reblogging is one of my weakest games. I am pretty horrible at it all the time.
This is a good idea. I usually reblog articles that I like. Nice to have some rewards on top of it 😀
"stop reblogging more than x times if you're only doing it for the rewards, for instance"
This one!
Sounds good but who is stopping me from following every curation account (so my followers HP is a lot) and just hunt for account who gets a lot of votes and also sets beneficiary to @reblogrewarder?
Also, I feel like we need more filtering options of reblogs in front-ends...like reblogs from my followers with posts in specific communities or tags. (Or atleast the option to hide reblogs from a specific user without unfollowing them.)
Interesting concept of rewarding rebloggers though.
It won't be based on who you are following but who is following u and their combined HP.
Ah, now it makes more sense. 😅
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Wow this is really an amazing implementation that can take reblogging to another level. I myself get my posts reblogged by so many bots which is very unnecessary. If we can figure out a way to restrict such reblogs, this idea you have brought up will really expand Hives reward system and also make reblogging really fun and valuable.
You're right, this is complicated. If you can figure it out it would be pretty cool though 👍
I've always seen this reblogging as a way to support and give more reach to all those publications that generate a lot of my interest or touch a topic that at a platform level is worthy of consideration. Sometimes I have come to know about some projects or initiatives thanks to someone else reblogging a publication, and this also makes me think of others that I have not even come to know and that are kept alive in Hice. That's why I think that any project related to this tool can give more impulse than what we can achieve now 👍.
excellent idea to make more known the publications that we like or on the contrary we want to promote
I think it's an excellent idea, if it brings benefits and is optional, I think it's fantastic, who doesn't want to earn rewards... I do... I'll be up to date with the information. I support you.
Reblogrewarder will work in a very efficient way, it will only reward those who need it. You have found the right method by analyzing each point. Only those who are eligible to receive the reward will receive the reward. I am reblogging your post to promote
Thank you friend for making everything more fun for us, that is, being able to reach more people around the world with our publications and make our ideas known.
Good idea!
With each blog, the utilities that you are talking about just makes my interest grow on hive. The focus on organic engagement will seriously help hive expand.
Why not limiting it to the person's voting power? I admit I'm a compulsive reblogger, but I only reblog what I vote. If I don't read the article (or like it), I don't vote it either. That being said, I try to vote daily until I got around 87% of my voting power, and I will do it again when it goes up. In that regard, the reblog reward could only work around 5 or 6 reblogs per day. I don't know if I'm being too simple in here. Great project, though!
I don't quite understand, it seems complicated, I will continue to read carefully @commentrewarder yes I love it and I understand it perfectly and I am using it in my posts, because it is great to reward those who comment on me