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RE: Human Connection: How to Truly Bring About a Free, and Minimally Violent Social Order (without some political "master plan")

in #society8 years ago (edited)

One might argue that a human doesn't experience 100% pure objective thinking, but that would not change the fact that individual self-ownership is 100% objectively true. To say it is not would be to enter the realm of absurdism, as this nature-conferred executive capacity is the very thing, for example, which enables me to make this reply to you, and which enables you to comment on this post. To deny the objective reality of self-ownership would thus be to enter a performative contradiction.

I experience objectivity every day. If, for example, I walk out into traffic, it is objectively true that I will get hit by those speeding objects. To argue that maybe 1 in a billion times, in a miracle of quantum physics, a car would pass through me doesn't help me much in real life, for all practical purposes.

Plus, if we don't experience objectivity, there is no way to ascertain or affirm the truth of your claim

We humans don't experience objectivity

because your claim is an objective truth claim. If it is not, it loses its meaning.

Thanks for this comment. I am happy to disagree and hash these things out! I need it! Thanks for reading.

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"One might argue that a human doesn't experience 100% pure objective thinking, but that would not change the fact that individual self-ownership is 100% objectively true." I am sorry to have to disagree because the fact that no one can take over your body and make it perform like a puppet on a string is subjectively true. Your body is subject to your will just as in the same way that your consciousness is subjected to your perception of I am.

"To deny the objective reality of self-ownership would thus be to enter a performative contradiction." So logic and reason move me to point out that denying self-ownership would actually be denying the truth that you are the only one who can control your body and are subject to the consequences of what you manifest into the world.

The problem with objectivity is that it is a state of being for which we have no experience and thus we can only imagine the condition. As a subjective being I cannot say that you experience the reality of being the only one who can control your body, but I can assume, presume, and hope that it is true abjectly.

The fact that I am the only one who can control my body is subjectively true because in my experience it has never been done. This is a fact and it is a fact that most people will validate when asked.

To me this means that we are subject to the reality of being self owned and it is not something that can be taken from us. This is proved when a person puts a gun to your head and commands something from you. No command would be necessary if one could take over your body.

Thanks for commenting on my comment. Happy am I that we come to the same conclusion through different avenues. In your example you are proving once again that human beings experience life subjectively. We are subject to the experience of being hit by a car and subject to the consequences of being hit by a care. Objectively this would only be imagined, but in reality we are subject to what happens.

the fact that no one can take over your body and make it perform like a puppet on a string is subjectively true.

The problem is that I never argued the body cannot be controlled by force.

The body can be killed, but the body cannot be controlled by force alone. The owner of the body must decide to comply or die. Not great choices. Still the owner has to decide to comply and cannot escape the consequences of compliance or noncompliance. Only by recognizing that the choice of compliance or not do you realize your power. Thus compliance for a time until the tables can be turned becomes a third and not presented option.

In realizing this we see subjectively human beings have the ability to create new circumstances that would not be realized without the self knowledge. Our subjective power allows us to change even the environment using our imagined objective reality. Thus we see the objective reality doesn't exist until we imagine the ideal objective reality and have faith that we can bring it about through our actions.