Many of you are probably familiar with these names.
However, I believe that these men never existed, so please allow me to explain why.
LET'S STICK TO REALITY
In the book of Daniel in the Old Testament, were are told a few things about certain individuals. To most, they are now commonly known as "Shadrach," "Meshach," and "Abednego." However, I don't think we should ever refer to them as such. The real people who are the ones spoken of in the scriptures are Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. As far as I am concerned, this is the true identity of the ones mentioned.
You see, names have meanings, or at least they once did. Hananiah meant something like "Yah is gracious" or "Jehovah has given.," Mishael meant "who is like God!" or "Who is what El is?" and Azariah meant "Yah has helped" or "whom Jehovah helps." Each of these names not only had a specific meaning, they each spoke of the one true Creator and glorified His name and person. But then, something terrible happened.
Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon changed the names of these young men. Essentially, it was an attempt to change their identities. According to this source "The Chaldean names are related to the Hebrew names, but the name of a heathen god has replaced that of Yahweh," with supposed meanings like Shadrach = "Command of Aku (the moon god)", Meshach = "Who is as Aku is?", and Abednego = "Slave of the god Nebo/Nabu." As we read in the recorded history of the book of Daniel we know that this attempt at changing who they were utterly failed. Nebuchadnezzar may have tried to change who they were and even tried to change their names, but their identities never changed.
My point and current thoughts are, "Why do more modern day Christians not call these young men by their real names?" Doing so would not only accurately represent their real identities but also testify of the real Creator God. Personally, I think that even if we are ignorant, God knows what their real names were, and what their fake names mean. It is my belief that it may even be an insult to Him to refer to these young men by their fake Babylonian names representing false gods. We seem to have no problem calling Daniel by him real name... so are "Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah" really that hard to pronounce or remember?
Anyway, just some random thoughts that I was having late last night, and I figured I'd share them. As far as I'm concerned, "Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego" never existed. That was a failed attempt by Nebuchadnezzar. Words have meanings, and it would be a shame to call these faithful young men by such names. To personify it a bit, it would be like calling a Christian a name like "worshipper of the moon" or "slave to the tree god." How long would you allow someone to refer to you as such? Just some thoughts anyway... what are yours?
Until next time…
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Hi @papa-pepper
Thanks for sharing. This is my thought on what you posted.
Hebrew names were translated into english names. Just like the real hebrew name of Jesus is yeshua.
Good thought! Thanks!
Thank You for sharing I just know there real names as of today thank u @papa-pepper cheers... Godbless...
Hi Papa-Pepper, Can I resteem your post?
Sure, anyone can.
Good good good
Hmmmm, never knew this before. I just call them the popular names. I will make research about them. Steemit is a like to me, I learn and discover new things everyday
wow, interesting point you have made about mishael, hananiah and azariah. But I think the reason why people can't seem to remember this names easily is because they don't look in sync with the flow of the brain unlike calling the other names. This makes it hard to recall even I have being struggling to remember these names vividly. Guess it Will tale some time to get used to it.
I think that people are very familiar with the Babylonian names and rarely consider the original ones much. Thanks @apiprincz!
Most welcome sir. And thank you for providing me the link to join sola. Namaste @papa-pepper
Their Babylonian names are used at the core of the story & when we read them during Bible studies, sermons, devotions, Sunday School, and everything, when we read them out loud, we tend to read the part where they are thrown in the fire which is when they are referred to by their Babylonian names and we tend not to look too much at the whole story. People tend not to dig deep to remember the whole context of a story. We only remember part of the story, most of the time, because only part of the story is read and repeated again and again while the details are usually forgotten & ignored slowly over time. Like a legend, stories can change over time. Like the telephone game. Things get lost in translation sometimes. We can see that certain things in stories can be left out & other parts can be added. Some things can be exaggerated. They say George Washington never told a lie which isn't true. They say Tall Bunyan was 100 feet tall but he was probably only 6 or 7 feet tall. King Arthur was probably based on a real king, for example.
Hmmmm... This is so hard to swallow because all my life, I had been told the usual story...
And for whatever reason, I chose to gullibly believe it..
But looking at it from your own perspective again... Hmmm.... I just guess there's probably so many things we think we know but aren't actually the truth...
I've wondered that myself. Why was it that the translators decided to use the Chaldean names rather than the Hebrew names. It's always been strange to me. Glad someone else picked up on that too.
Yeah, I figured that I wasn't alone in these thoughts. Thanks man... with no name.... Hmm.....
For lack of a better expression, I’m going to play the devil’s advocate here... and I’m no theologian, but shouldn’t god be accepting of the incorrect way that these names are being used? Again I understand the points you’re making on the basis of, the names are just plain incorrect. They should be this, but the ‘heathen’ changed them to that.
I think if religions in general were more accepting of others and not labeling other religions are false or portray them in a negative light the world would ultimately be a better place.
This in primarily in response to this statement:
If we’re going to analyze based on history or age, science aside, then newer religions should be more respectful of the pre-existing ones. Unless there is an anterior motive at play. What changed culturally or in the course of a society that caused it to change from pagan/multitheism to monotheism...?
Or, what changed in order for things to go from monotheism to multitheism to atheism.....?
Thanks for putting in some food for thought!
I think that one is a bit easier to grasp... (or perhaps it’s a similar discussion for both).
Scientific thinking in modern post industrial revolution times or “philosophy” during the BC/AD cusp.
When something needs a more structured or proof-based reason for existing, it’s harder to believe in the supernatural.
Wow, this is the first time that I heard about the "real names" of "SHADRACH, MESHACH, AND ABEDNEGO". I first came to know them exactly as "SHADRACH, MESHACH, AND ABEDNEGO" in the Bible and never read any story about their real names until I read this article of yours.
And this goes for many things in life. The more you know, the less you know, hehe.
This is also the first time that I read about "the more you know, the you less know", I am only acquainted to "the more I know, the more afraid I become".
I become less afraid when I know more.
great post,keep it up
Wow,this is awesome. Thid is exactly the same thought i have about the babylonian names given to the young men. Thanks for sharing this here. I'll resteem this
Cool! Glad to hear that you think in a similar way about this.
Love this @papa-pepper!
Thank you! Glad to hear it!
Good point, I only discovered recently that they were given new names. Next time this story is brought up, I’ll make a point of referring to their real names!!
Yeah, they are mentioned by their real names first. Glad that you liked it.
That's a really good point bro. I've never thought of it like that before.
Not sure where the thought came from, but it came.
These names and these people existed. Have you ever wondered why we don't refer to Daniel by his Babylonian name Belteshazzar but we are quick to use the Babylonian names for his friends? I think it is because of pop culture.
I cannot picture Shatchmo singing a soung about "Mishael, Azariah and Hananiah" but Shadrack Messhack and Abendego make a good sound together in English. We will remember them for what they did not for what their names mean.
But I am so sorry for the years of oppression they faced having to speak a language that was not their own and being forced to change their names to names that were not their own. This is the tragedy of colonization. Korean scholars were taken to Japan in the early 1900s. They were given Japanese names and forced to speak Japanese. They were not aloud to read or speak in Korean even with their friends. They had to secretly meet together at night to speak Korean and even then if they were caught they were put in prison and tortured.
We should remember "Mishael, Azariah and Hananiah."
I agree, and I think we will remember what they did too. Thanks.
You're welcome:)
Japan conquered Korea in the early 1900's? I didn't really know that. I'm American and was in Vietnam for 5 years teaching English & I learned Vietnamese history where China invaded Vietnam & Vietnamese learned Chinese words & customs. It is educational to compare that to how Babylon conquered Israel for example.
I tend to believe your write-up @papa-pepper but I think I will make more research on this regard. Thanks for this, seems you are a Bible scholar.
Papa, this is another eyes opening fact, I never see it this way because I've never researched into it.
But, I can say people prefer sadrach and the likes because of how simple they were to pronounce.
We have been making mistakes for long, it's time for a positive change. Those men deserve better indeed.
May God be praised... Thanks sir
The Babilonians changes their names, location, foods, environment, language, and culture etc but one thing they were unable to change their hearts and their God.
Actually, at least in regard to foods and culture, the Babylonians only tried to change them, as these men resisted.
@papa-pepper i think if i got your your point you are trying to make us see the light of their own Hebrew names because their Hebrew name is a picture of christ and his finished work.
Hmmmm this is really englightening.
Hi @papa-pepper Interesting explanation .. I had never really looked at it like that .. Certainly the names leave a lot to say and they remained faithful to God, even being under the Babylonian dominion. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, names do have meaning. My birth name is Joseph, which means he who adds. People call me Joey or Oatmeal. I like to study etymology of words. I was teaching English in Vietnam for 5 years & was always explaining what words mean to Vietnamese. Sometimes, we would talk about synonyms. They would ask me if tiny, small, and miniature, were identical in meaning, for example. My first year in VN, I tended to get nerdy, technical, with my answers. I would say yeah they are kind of the same but these words are not exactly the same because of this and that.
But after a while, I started just responding with a simple nod, a yes. Some people tend to just want a simple answer. They told me I write too much, like this, right here, right now. So wordy, haha. Well, it seems, people tend not to want to dig deep into understanding things deeply.
I like to say Shadrach for example. That might be a reason why people say them. It seems those names became unforgettable. It was probably a habit to call them by their new names. Their Babylonian names. Not sure where that all started. It probably started centuries ago. We have the English versions of the Bible the past few centuries. Were they always called by their Babylonian names in the English versions of the Bible? I think the answer depends on the verses as it uses both versions of the names depending on the verses. But beyond that, it is a good questions. The names probably just stuck. Who were behind popularizing their Babylonian names? Good question.
It is always better to ask questions, like these questions. We do better as we stay hungry & as we take the time to figure things out because not only do names have meaning, because people & life has meaning, purpose, hope over dope, joy over circumstances, ironic mystic, original oatmeal, and fire through storms over mountains towards rainbow destiny.
B"H! It's all coming back together, slowly slowly! Nice one!
Resteemed!
Thanks @inphiknit! I was wondering if you'd catch this one.
It's not a story that I have studied with commentaries so I found your take very interesting. Not to mention that I don't think I recall hearing the name Mishael in any lectures or articles, so I wonder what name we call him by in usual parlance. Though I do recall hearing many times of Hananiah and Azariah, so I'm guessing it's by the Hebrew name for Mishael too. (I'm so bad with names, and there are a lot of names!) If I can remember and don't get too sidetracked, I'll ask someone...
It's great cause I'm sure your question/observation/conclusion comes up somewhere... (I love it when the question I ask today was posed in a far superior way by a far superior Sage, but 500 or 2000 years ago, and I get a real talking to!)
Yw, but thanks also for the good thoughts!
Not related to the Bible story, but names still have meaning! So many of us have been so far removed from even the thought of it, that we don't recognise it. There is power in a name. If you (the general you, not you specifically), as a Christian, name your child
Then don't be surprised if the child turns away from the Lord!
My name means pious, my first born son is called the Lord (or Yah) is God. If we are blessed with a second son someday his name will be Yahweh is gracious.
Names still have meaning and they are powerful.
Really trying to get your point..
Never really hard to get bro. Read again or open the book of Daniel bro.
Friend your thoughts are true, those faithful men, those four faithful Hebrews are Daniel, Hananiah, Azariah, Mishael and so you have to name and remember them. I also have that same opinion. Saying their Hebrew names highlights the fidelity of these men to their God JEHOVAH, their God who does not abandon them either in the maw of lions or in the blazing fire. I liked reading your opinion. Have a good time.
I never thought about it in this light before. Indeed, the Word of God is revelational...as you grow, you gain more insight.
Your caption for me hahaha and I was interested to know what you mean.
Thank you Papa for this. I will read that chapter again too and share my thoughts, but i see sense in what you just said.
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STOPWow, thanks for this enlightenment. The funnest thing is that people give there children these names. It's always good to understand the meaning of name before given them to your children
You got me thinking with the title of this post...but I get your point now...Kinda true though. I personally dont have any priblem with the names but its good we know the origin of names before hiving them to kids.
Christianity in homesteading post! Awesome man, I thought this was going to be a different message as you had me going at first. Good for you, it's good to know there's more people with these values out there.
I do share your concerns. In this case the names were actually changed to absorb these young men in Babylonian culture and worship.
On the other hand nowadays names are used to identify people or places.
Example in North France there is a city called Lille. In Dutch this city is called 'Rijsel'. So the name doesn't look at all like the actual French name. Still it refers to the same city.
The same with names.
These 3 men who were loyal to Jehovah are known by most people by their Babylonian names. When hearing these names people think about the young men who refused to bow down to the idol of the Babylonians.
The same is also true for the original names in the Bible. It's difficult to know how some names might have been pronounced in ancient times. The names have been translated to different languages to make it easier.
Even if we would know the exact pronunciation, we all have different accents that would still make it sound different.
Most important for me is what these people stand for. How they showed their strong faith.
Nice post. This thanks
Nice job man, it must have been upsetting for them to be called those names. Especially if the other men they lived next to mocked them with the names. They were quite unpopular with their peers.
More importantly why is Messiah's true Name changed? If there is no other Name under heaven by which we can be saved, it begs the question: would it not be the plan of the enemy to change His Name? There is power, purpose, promise and praise in names - or there should be. If you understand the names of men and women of Scripture, it is truly amazing to see how many of them lived up to their names. @papa-pepper this an invaluable post. I hope you stir many to question
Thank you for sharing this insight! I will never call them by their Babylonian names again!
Not much knowledge on this subject ....
Id refrain from contributions. .
Could anyone expantiate tho ?
Loved this! I agree completely, I don't think it's a coincidence that in the Sumerian account (1st known civilization) Nabu was the demigod son of the source of all confusion. It's also true of the stars, we're told God created the heavens and the stars, meaning the constellations also. The Jews believed there was given a constellation to each of the 12 tribes of Judah - no coincidence the Pagan Romans/Greeks changed all the names. God bless!