Just another encounter with Mormon missionaries...
Just got back from a bike ride to my apt and I saw a couple people in white-collared shirts and black pants with side bags standing in front of an adjacent neighboring unit. I suspected they were Mormons so I wanted to quickly and quietly go back in my place. I had a suspicion I'd be flagged down. Right as I got out my keys to the door I heard:
Elder H: “Excuse me sir, do you have a moment?” [I knew it!]
Me: “Sure what's going on?”
Elder H: “Hi I'm ___” [Bad with names esp. when flustered. We shook hands.]
Elder H: “Do you know much about the Church of Latter Day Saints?”
Me: “Mormons right?”
Elder H: “Yes”
Elder H: “Are you spiritual at all?”
Me: “Yes kind of. Sort of. I don't have a specific religion, but have read bits and pieces of religious books”
Elder H: “Which ones?”
Me: “Um bits and pieces of the Bible. That Hindu book.. the Gita or.. the Bav...gad.. Gita.. or something?” [It's Bhaghavad Gita, but I'll probably mispronounce it next time too..]
Elder H: “Interesting I did a missionary in Cambodia and there were a lot of Buddhists”
Me: “Yeah there's a lot of overlap with spiritual ideas in various religions .. Buddhism.. Taoism.”
Elder H: “So do you have any questions?”
Me: “So I heard stories about the Mormon Church...”
Elder H: “What stories?”
Me: “Unusual stories?” [I glanced at Elder J and back at Elder H inquisitively.]
Elder H: “Like what?”
Me: “Extra-terrestrials?” [It was the most subtle word I could find... ]
Elder H: “Oh... in the book of James #: # Joseph Smith talks about a light coming down from the sky.. and God and his Son revealing themselves to him... .. there are 12 apostles and 70 angels.. We believe etc.... we believe etc etc... we believe there is a living prophet..” [Oh really living? Interesting.]
Me: “Who?
Elder H: “Thomas Monson”
Me: “In Utah?”
Elder H: “Yes.”
Me: “Ok the way you explain it sounds more reasonable. When I meant extra-terrestrials I meant I heard about aliens. UFOs.” [Not that having living prophets is all that normal either.]
Elder H: “Really where did you hear this?”
Me: “It's on the Internet.. Google it.. on the Internet .. you know.. I just glanced at some of the writings of people that were former Mormons..” [That crazy Internet you know.]
So anyways we wrapped up. He offered the Book of Mormons to me, but I declined and told him I can look for it online. He also told me I could go to mormon.org and some guy would be online to chat and answer questions. Good to hear they are tech savy. Elder H. and Elder J. were very nice guys.
So I learned today that:
- Mormons believe Thomas Monson is a living prophet.
- Not all Mormons know about the alien theories, or at least don't discuss it publicly.
I'm still curious to know about the alien theories because there's a lot of that out there on the Internet. [Google it. Seriously.] But I'm not against any of these ideas. It just fascinates me. Oh.... next time I should tell them about Steemit.. and they can create an #LDS tag and preach on. About aliens and all.
Anyways do you have any interesting encounters with Mormons in the past? With aliens? Just curious.
Always heard Mormons are not supposed to imbibe in alcohol, but I did shots at a bar with a couple of elders I met who were on a mission in Asia. Then we played some billiards at an old warped table there. Don't remember where that was, somewhere in China maybe. They had to get back to their clubhouse before it got too late, worried about getting a tongue lashing from the head guy. Another time I sat next to an elderly lady on a plane trip and had to listen to her preach for a while. I felt kind of bad, must have been a good listener, because at the end she slipped me this old family copy of The Book which must have been a family heirloom, and of course I was polite but had no use for it. They can be nice people; they just lead a sheltered life and don't get out much. A lot of religions teach some pretty improbable stuff.
As mentioned above "all types"
I remember an old colleague of mine had a kind of spiritual awakening and he told me that Elohim was a flesh and blood being that lives on a certain planet, somewhere in time and space. I'm pretty sure he was involved in LDS, but I never asked.
Another time, I asked a friend of mine who has been involved to some extent in the church for many years. I asked her if there was anything about extra-terrestrials. She said only certain people study the "deep dogma", and so she couldn't really confirm or deny any of it. To me, it sounded very strange that they would openly call their beliefs a dogma, as it has the connotation of being fixed in your ideas.
I think the phrase you are looking for is "deep doctrine". In the LDS church it is common to refer to things that are taught often, well explained and well understood by the average member as the "doctrine" of the church. On these matters the "church" has an official stance or "declared doctrine". Examples of this would be things like faith, repentance, baptism, ordinances, priesthood etc.
Things which the church has no official position on, mainly because the have little bearing on "salvation", are not considered doctrinal and in many instances are speculative.
People (like me) who delve into these areas are considered to be exploring "deep doctrine". Some of what people call deep doctrine is just lesser known doctrine(because it requires in-depth study to understand) and some is not doctrine at all (pure speculation).
Right you are, thanks for the correction.
You forgot to ask them about baptizing the dead and their magic underwear! That's usually the fun part where you get a pamphlet and they run off.
You may be thinking of Scientologists. Mormons generally love talking about why we have baptisms for the dead (and why it's mentioned in the New Testament). We also enjoy sharing the reason behind wearing temple clothing under our typical clothing. In fact, I don't know that there's anything that most Mormons wouldn't enjoy talking about.
Yeah did not know about those rituals either. Interesting. I can see how making people wear garments as a constant reminder could be used psychologically as a control mechanism. Anyways I won't knock these rituals. They are what the are. I was just curious and wanted to validate more of the unusual ideas that float around about Mormonism.
Careful what you wish for, you've got a real live one here, so fire away.
Hello @gavvet! Thanks for letting us know! We should do an AMA with you! Anyways I'm open to all ideas so it's just part of learning about different religions. I did have a good time speaking to the young 'Elder' missionaries today. They were very nice. I asked the question about aliens and put it in the post title because it wasn't until probably 3-5 years ago that I first learned of these ideas. It was fascinating partly because it took me so long to know there were such theories/ideas in Mormonism, and partly because these ideas are about .. well aliens. So are these theories/ideas mainstream in Mormonism? Is it only for those initiated at higher levels or is it just something that every Mormon knows about, but is discouraged to talk about because of the possible negative repercussions?
As with everything, you get all types with Mormons. Some who study and delve and others that don't and everything in between.
We have a large corpus of scripture and also a lay ministry, so you can just imagine the variety that can spawn? some things are doctrinal, some are wild speculations (but fun none the less).
In your words "[That crazy Internet you know.]" so there is lots out there... Which of the many perspectives on "aliens" are you intrigued about?
article. I thought there was actually a more detailed storyline similar to the one about Xenu in Scientology, but I'm probably mistaken. There aren't as many descriptive stories online so I may have mixed some of the details in my head.@gavvet I thought there were more detailed stories online, but I could only find something about the planet Kolob. Also there is this
Anyways what are your thoughts on Kolob?
What do you think about alien life-forms as it relates to Mormonism and god?
Also there seems to be hidden knowledge within the higher echelons and maybe that's what made me think of Xenu/Scientology...it may be the hidden 'deep dogma' that @churdtzu replied about that made me think there was a greater connection with Mormonism and alien theories... Is the existence of this exclusive 'deep dogma' generally known among regular membership?
Give me a bit of time to type up a decent response to a great question.
Believe it or not the Wikipedia article does great justice to the subject in discussing its many facets and also of the basis and speculations on the subject. I therefore refer you to that for all the background on the matter. It even has the counter arguments and pop culture elements.
After you have read that I would be happy to answer any follow up details you would like further clarity on.@streemrollin, I was in the process of typing up a tome of a response for you to the Kolob question and just thought I would take a peek at what was on Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob
Here is a great article that sums up the "alien" question, it's my take on the matter too. This is written by a BYU professor, is on the LDS.org website and was published in one of the churches magazines back in 1970. That seems pretty mainstream to me. If people don't talk about it much it's because most people don't really care.
I do because I love to look up at the stars and ponder the eternities up there, but for most people life is about more down to earth stuff.
https://www.lds.org/new-era/1971/04/people-on-other-worlds?lang=eng
The Kolob stuff is expanded upon in a reply below in case it can't be seen.
Anyways yeah I think I overemphasized the alien theories..it was speculative on my part and I probably mixed up some theories I read about Scientology. Anyways thx for the answers!Thanks @gavvet! Yeah I did come across the lds.org response written by the BYU professor.
Post an AMA!
If this thread develops significantly an AMA may be justified, but we can keep it to here for now, I don't know how much "religion" the existing steemians are interested in at the moment.
Cult members aren't going to admit to all the nutty stuff they believe up front. They only get to that stuff once you've "drunk the koolaid."
Actually I have "drunk the koolaid"(it usually is too weak, there is an inside joke about that) what nutty stuff would you like me to admit to?