A proposal is being put forth to a vote of all staked SPS token holders to decide whether or not to make Blood Stones and Power Stones (aka the potions for Gladius Cases) purchasable for Dark Energy Crystals instead of Merits.
This proposal seeks to introduce an additional place for players to spend their Dark Energy Crystals while giving guild brawlers the opportunity to open more gold foil and legendary Gladius cards, which should be even more important with the upcoming addition of SPS rewards in brawls. The proposed price would be 150 DEC for a Blood Stone or 150 DEC for a Power Stone and all DEC spent for these purchases would be burned.
A few items to note:
- The proposal is to replace Merits with DEC as the only way to purchase Blood and Power Stones
- The appropriate Guild Store building levels will still be required to have the option to purchase the stones in the first place (Level 6 for Blood Stones and Level 8 for Power Stones)
- We propose that guild Quest Lodge discounts should apply to Blood or Power Stone purchases just like they do for regular potions
To provide some data and context, there have been approximately 17,000 Gladius Cases purchased from the Guild Store over a recent 15 day period. If all of those players had high enough Guild Store buildings and bought Blood and Power Stones with Dark Energy Crystals to cover the cards in all of these packs, that could result in a total of roughly 17 million Dark Energy Crystals being burned. Currently, the majority of guilds do not have high enough Guild Store buildings to purchase the stones, and at the moment we estimate that around 300k DEC would be burned every two weeks as a result of this change.
Finally, we want to note that initially we had discussed proposing pricing the stones in Voucher tokens rather than DEC, however we felt that it would be better to price them in DEC as that is what we plan for most everything to be priced in going forward, on top of the fact that using vouchers would add additional delays in getting the SPS validators live.
I like this. I think this would increase demand in DEC especially if the brawls become more competitive with the upcoming SPS rewards.
This is deceiving, so here is some proper context.
Only 39 guilds currently have a level 6+ store and are able to purchase blood stones and from that only 5 of them have a level 8 store to purchase power stones.
They've earned a combined 503,704 merits over the last 3 brawls (15ish days). At 2,000 merits per Gladius pack, that's only enough to buy 251 packs.
They all have Guild Hall/Lodge level 7+ (except 1 who is level 6) so get minimum 5% shop discount.
In a best case scenario with all players buying enough blood stones to cover all packs that would only burn 178,837 DEC.
The 5 guilds able to purchase power stones earned a combined 105,808 merits, enough for 53 packs.
In a best case scenario with all players buying enough power stones to cover all packs that would only burn 37,762 DEC.
In total that is a max of 216,599 DEC that could be burnt purchasing stones, not even close to the 17 million claimed.
So all in all, this change would mean almost nothing for the vast majority of players and and will be burning a negligible amount for DEC (at least for the foreseeable future).
A proper change would have been to also adjusting the store levels needed for guilds to purchase stones.
Removing the spy glass and moving blood stones to store level 4 and power stones to level 6 would have had more impact.
I was thinking the exact same thing! Thanks for putting together the data.
I proposed the lowering of the levels as well. Before I found your comment. Maybe should scroll the comments first haha
!PIZZA and !invest_vote
Hey good job. Seen they changed the wording to reflect more of what you said :)
Thanks for letting me know, I wouldn't have notice otherwise.
Looks like the post was edited about an hour ago, around the same time the proposal went live.
I have been beating the drum on this as well... we need to ELIMINATE the spy glass at lvl 4, move stones down to lvl 4 and lvl 6, and find a new item to sell at lvl 8.
If only the team could understand how to math like this lol
!BEER
I appreciate the further and more appropriate analysis.
I think @sps.dao should amend the post to include this.
Good idea! 👍 Please proropose this when anyone can!
'Removing the spy glass and moving blood stones to store level 4 and power stones to level 6 '
Easily the most insightful comment on this proposal.
Honestly I would support the 'option' to pay in DEC because I ultimately feel DEC should be an option to purchase EVERYTHING in the game outside of G packs themselves. That said, I feel like the Splinterlands team could absolutely use someone that is good with data analytics and visualization. From their math comments alone it is clear they don't really know what they are talking about.
I follow and agree with your analysis here. Thanks for sharing and making it easier to understand!
!PIZZA
This and exactly this. Negligible amount overall. Make them more accessible if you propose it as a measure of burning DEC.
I think this is a TERRIBLE idea. The whole point with G cards is you can EARN them, and that's it!!! You can't BUY them. This should remain true with the stones!! Players should be able to EARN the stones needed to open the G cases. Forcing players to pay $1.50 in actual currency to open a single G case is just wrong imo. I can see giving players the OPTION (ie offer DEC along with Merits for stones) but FORCING players to BUY the stones as opposed to earning them is awful and will just hurt the smaller players and act as a barrier for participation.
"Play to EARN"... remember? Let's keep this possible and not make it play to pay... (yes play to pay).
I support this but...
I also feel like there's other things you could be doing that would benefit a MUCH larger percentage of players.
How many guilds even have a level 6 or level 8 Guild Store?
Can we instead start focusing on some of the Quality of Life issues people have been talking about for the past year that you keep putting off?
I think the effect of this proposal is overrated. Only Gold Foil fray Brawlers will buy both Stones. Currently that's about 20 players in total. RF fray players (75%) only buy Blood Stones if they want a short term advantage or are misinformed. They will probably never buy Power Stones.
I WANT MY POWER STONES!
Just bumping up what @m0r0s said as I believe it needs to be highlighted.
Voting no on this one. I think guild store items should be bought with the merits from participating in guild brawls. With this, guilds that just have enough DEC to up their buildings and buy the stones will have advantages. With the merits, at least to a degree, you are rewarded for being active and doing well in brawls. To many of these proposals are giving advantages to having $$ versus having skill.
i'm not locked in yet, but i think i'm voting no. I just dont understand why the proposal is to change it to DEC rather than give the option of DEC instead of Merits.
one cool thing about Gladius cards is that they are, in general, earned rather than bought.
Would the drop rates of merits be reduced or replaced with SPS?
It would be also nice to be able to buy/sell Gladiators for Merits. Overall Merits will be still account bound but it allows gold foil accounts to sell never used regular foil cards and buy Gold Foil cards from players that never play Gold Fiol frays.
I will be voting yes for this!
Would be really good if you also lower the store level required to buy the stones.
Congratulations @sps.dao! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s):
Your next target is to reach 500 replies.
You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOPCheck out the last post from @hivebuzz:
Support the HiveBuzz project. Vote for our proposal!
What next? Progressive guild taxes (I mean fees) based on Guild Hall to be paid in DEC?
Don't make me bother to mav or I will start flaming at the lack of brain in some of these proposals in Mav chat ...
I like the idea but the stones are too expensive
I like adding DEC as a payment options. My question is what would happen to Merits going forward? I will vote yes for the proposal as it would help with DEC inflation. But I am curious if Merits would be phased out of the game.
I like this change. While it might not be a huge effect on the economy, I think it makes sense to keep finding more and more ways to create uses/sinks for DEC. Good job!
While I think some comments here have done the math better, burning DEC doesn't seem like a bad thing so I'll be better voting yes but I think this is a drop in the bucket proposal.
Other people have put it more eloquently but I'll reiterate that we should start waiting a decent period of time to see how all these DEC proposals work themselves out before new proposals come out.
say that again when all the higher level guilds who would actually benefit from this proposal BUY their way into getting max level/gf gladius cards and sprint to tier 4/5 guild and take all the SPS rewards.
looks cool on paper, but you can see how the proposal plans to exploit guilds to get more SPS rewards.
I gifted $PIZZA slices here:
hurtlocker tipped m0r0s (x1)
@solymi(1/10) tipped @m0r0s (x1)
Learn more at https://hive.pizza!
You are getting schooled by a random player @m0r0s who is able to do the proper math, which you seem unable to do. This post is a huge embarrassment!
I will not support this proposal unless you include the changes mentioned by m0r0s!
This proposed change does only benefit 2% of all players at max. Lower level guilds will never be able to catch up, if this gets implemented now without lowering the guild store level requirement. But maybe this is what you want to achieve with this proposal? Farming the noobs with your golden max level gladiators while most guilds don't even have upgraded the store to level 6? BIG YIKES!
Damn it. Making players pay $1.50 to open a gladius case instead of letting players EARN everything G related. Think about how this affects newer players (yeah I know the guild has to be leveled up enough). Even having to cough up .75 a pack for just blood stones is a big ask. Spawn point equality right? Not a huge deal for some but incredibly prohibitive for others. I'd be all in favor of DEC for stones if players had the choice of paying in DEC OR merits.
Disagree!
Make them available for both DEC and Merits or let it be as it is.
I am buying one or more gladius pack after almost every brawl. But I can not buy blood/power stones. It would make sense in my opinion to lower the levels a bit. There is only very few guilds that have the means of getting into a LEVEL 6 guild not to speak of level 8.
Lower these to 4 and 6 or maybe just 5 and 7 and you will have way more DEC burnt.
I know that on the counterpart it could be argued that with a change like that guilds would not be incentivized to level up their buildings. Still something to think about as I believe that if lower levels would be allowed guilds would still want to level up. Just wanna throw this here and maybe someone wants to pick up on that.
MAybe another proposal could be made for that if enough players would like that.
@yabapmatt would you guys consider ADDING DEC as a payment option in addition to merits instead of forcing people to pay out of pocket using DEC for stones? Since G cards are soul bound to an account the earning merits to get them was a pretty important part of how these cards are set up... and stones solely are an extension of G cards.
the worst thing about it is that you want to replace the payment method merits with dec.
you could offer both,
just as potions are realmoney or reward boxes.
in my opinion, stones should be available for merits and real money. merits are the brawl rewards. and boxes are the rankingbattle rewards.
Thanks for adjusting the wording can rest in peace now and let it be debated on its present metrics :)
why poeple vote for, it mean pots need money now, it was free at first .....
can i hope next proposal allow us to trade pots so?
I pledge for removing the level based restriction to buy blood & power stones completely.
Everyone should be able to decide if they spend their merits on G-packs alone or buy stones in addition.
This is again a proposal that will benefit the whales. Those few players that have access to the stones right now are able to build up their decks with high level gf+legendry monsters months/years before the majority of other guilds will be able to upgrade their store to lv6/8.
At the time they do, the whales will already have maxed out cards and just stomp the newcomers.
So my vote is no.
If gladius packs will be bought with DEC will the cards then be able to to be sold?
why a gladius pack should be bought with DEC? Gladius Packs should only be available for Merrits and for those hard working guild fights!
This is not about Gladius packs. it is about the stones. DEC for stones not for packs!