Well, color me surprised. The Last Jedi was a rehash of The Empire Strikes Back and the Return of the Jedi, instead of being something new for a change. Who could have seen this coming?
Of course they only repeated the structure of the plot and not its atmosphere, because there was no atmosphere. Everything was neutered down to a family friendly mediocrity full of funny fluffy critters and immersion breaking comic relief. There were jokes in the previous movies as well, but they were not distracting. In this one the rebels were being killed by the hundreds and all the kids were talking about in the seats behind me was how funny the animals were.
-Many hated the Ewoks but they did kick the crap out of the storm troopers.
-Many hated Jarjar but he did bring his people to the fight.
-The Porks were cute and made the kids in the audience laugh.
Also, it feels like they retconned everything we were shown in the previous movies. Starting with the First Order which somehow rules the galaxy now. How? They were a fraction of the imperial army, and they lost their planet killer weapon. How the hell did they make everyone surrender to them? We are talking about hundreds of trillions being afraid of a few thousand storm troopers who can’t even aim straight and lost their doomsday device trice.
Luke Skywalker was a completely different character. He wanted to kill Kylo Ren for seeing evil potential inside a kid who didn’t do anything yet, although he never lost faith in his own father even after he had done unspeakable crimes. Also, why did he make a map in the previous movie so people can find him, and then pretends like he didn’t want to be found?
Did I mention how most of the movie felt like filler? Everything Finn did at the casino, and Poe did with his constant disregard for authority had zero significance in the plot. They were going for the message of “you learn from your mistakes” but they overdid it to the point the whole movie was a mistake.
The only two characters who mattered were Kylo and Rei, with the latter repeating the hero’s journey of Luke, only in a completely hollow way. I am no fan of the space kung-fu philosophy of the Jedi, but there was only a small portion of the philosophical depth of episode 5. Also, you know they fucked up the Jedi training when they had to resort to the ghost of Yoda for carrying the scene. What’s the matter guys; are the new characters that boring, so you have to resort to cameos of the older ones?
And holy shit, did they overhype a bunch of stuff that never happened. They were not just fan theories by the way, the creators themselves were promising all that stuff in interviews.
-Phasma was hyped up as this amazing female storm trooper only to barely have any presence and be defeated easily as a minor opponent.
-Snoke was hyped up as a super powerful ancient Sith Lord and was a nobody without a backdrop.
-Rei was hyped up as the daughter of Luke and she was just a kid abandoned on a desert planet.
Which leads us to the biggest and most offending retcon of them all, the Force being able to choose anyone to become the next chosen one, even if there are no Jedi or Sith involved. That doesn’t sound like a big issue, you might think, since the Force is everywhere and thus anyone can use it if he knows how. Instead of having specific lineages hoarding all the attention, this way everyone can be special. Thus no one can be special.
And then you realize all those thousands of years the Jedi and the Sith were trying not to go extinct were for naught. Wasn’t this all because of some nonsense about bringing balance to the Force? Well guess what, thanks to this retcon, there can never be a balance, since the Force keeps making more Jedi and Sith who maintain the imbalance. There is no need to do anything because nothing matters no matter how hard you try.
By extension, this also means Kylo Ren will never accomplish his goal. He was the only character I was interested in, and he’s acting like he can get rid of the rebels and the Jedi forever, and start a new order. Well, guess what my precious, it doesn’t matter how many you kill, more of them will keep popping up out of nowhere.
This is why, once again, the Force is proven to be the worst thing about Star Wars. It’s just nonsensical space Jesus magic for the sake of plot convenience and lazy copouts. Everything is possible with it and the writers keep abusing it more and more for otherwise impossible stuff to happen.
-Someone throws you in space? Use the force to somehow not freeze to death and fly to the nearest spaceship.
-You are too afraid to burn something? Use the force so the ghost of a long dead Jedi can make thunderbolts appear out of nowhere to set stuff on fire.
-There is a mountain of rocks blocking the exit? Use the force to move the mountain.
-You can’t be present in a far away planet? Use the force to appear there as a projection.
And this is why, once again, it is proven that the best movie in the franchise, is Rogue One for not having any space Jesus magic for the sake of plot.
"They were a fraction of the imperial army" - They only started as such. Then they were taking children. They also had connections and destroyed Republic. And these are even from TFA. what retcon.
"Luke Skywalker was a completely different character" - And that was perfectly explained. He tried to kill Ben for like 3 seconds out of fear/anger and then started to question himself. He was not responsible for Vader's dark side, so situation was worse and completely new for his character, how can we know if he would not act same.
"Did I mention how most of the movie felt like filler?" - Without them there would be no last phase and characters would have survived. They also showed bad stuff of "light side", which is thematic. How is that a filler.
"but there was only a small portion of the philosophical depth of episode 5" - So you wanted it rehash more or what? We already know that stuff, so that would have been time wasting. As Yoda said, Rey already knows whats important and also has these books.
"were promising all that stuff in interviews." - So? Phasma was easily captured in TFA, what hype. Much time was not wasted on Snoke and it would have been worse to use him in the sequel (Hint hint original trilogy) - I agree that 2-3 minutes of his backdrop would have been better, but he died in a logical way. So, you think, that Luke would abandon his own daughter?
"this way everyone can be special. Thus no one can be special" - Sorry... wat? Also, if these special ones are not trained, then they can't be called as Jedi or Sith, thus they will go extinct.
"By extension, this also means Kylo Ren will never accomplish his goal" - How so, Rey at least saw how does the Force works. If he kills everyone and will never reveal his powers in public, Mission = Completed.
" the Force is proven to be the worst thing about Star Wars" - Sure, but Leia did nothing after that. I agree, Yoda was ridiculous, but at least Luke paid his price and died. If magic exists somewhere, it is always used at such extents (Remember LOTR?) and it was close to minimum here. Any real problem was not resolved with this, ffs.
I disagree with some of your other points too, but it is taking to much time to address everything.
The Last Jedi takes off almost immediately after The Force Awakens. We know this because Rei had just arrived on the island. At the end of The Force Awakens the First Order suffered major losses when Starkiller Base was destroyed. There's no way they could have gone from a competing faction to reigning power in that time.
Luke went to the evil lair of the two most evil men in the galaxy because he believed he could change a man that had done only evil things on screen. Luke would have known Kylo had good in him and it is 100% out of character for Luke to believe that signs of the dark side, which he exhibited throughout the original trilogy, would cause Kylo to be a lost cause.
The movie had 5 different plot lines going on. Most of them were irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The most important plot line had a Mad Max style space ship chase in real time, which was incredibly boring.
Yoda saying that Rey understands the lessons is an asspull. How do we know that Rey knows those things? Doing that off screen is lazy writing.
Snoke had literally no explanation whatsoever. He said menacing things then died. That's incredibly anti-climactic and not conducive of good storytelling.
They showed the stable boy at the end had force powers. The message is that anyone can be special and to replace the old with the new.
Magic in Lord of the Rings is excellently written because it exists as a function of the universe, and thus doesn't need explanation. We're shown how that power works and we know that only elves and Istari have direct access to that power. Magic is not used often in Lord of the Rings, whereas the Force is used frequently in Star Wars to solve every major problem. Did Frodo use magic to destroy the Ring? No, he walked across the world to throw it into a volcano. Does every Star Wars protagonist use the Force to solve all their problems? Pretty much, yes.
I never said otherwise.
And that is why he started to question himself right after he took the lightsaber in his hands. Did you even read what I wrote? It is not about that there is light in Kylo. It was HIS FAULT, that is different from Vader's situation. Because of this, he thought that it would be impossible to bring Kylo back. He tried to kill Kylo and he just can't prove otherwise. Nobody can.
Somethings changed in most of the arc. Arcs played role. For example, without Finn's arc, Luke would have survived. How is that irrelevant. Yeah, sure, I am not saying that movies is perfect. I gave it 7/10... 8/10 at best. But 2/10? Come on...
Because 1) As Snob said, that philosophy is not hard - even child can understand it. 2) She took these books. 3) Personality-wise, like having faith in Ben (Similar to the symbol in that temple. Which resembles to Yin and Yang). 4) She knew myths in TFA and adored them.
What else is necessary here?
Yeah, novels did better job here, from what I heard. I hope they will fix that in some movies like Rogue One. But having him as such for another movie too, would have been worse. Original trilogy did that, iirc. He had build-up towards Kylo going against Snoke (First time, when he achieved nothing and then, when Snoke trolled him). He also died in a logical way and served Kylo as a character. This probably will have some backlash in sequel. And we also had battle scenes. Other than fleshing-out, I don't see any problem in Snoke's death. Even that may not be considered as a horrible problem, because not much of a screen time was wasted on him.
Just doing some little tricks with the force = you are a Jedi/Sith?
"to replace the old with the new" - Can you elaborate? I didn't catch that while watching the movie.
Through magic ring was connected to the villain and because of just throwing it into a volcano, greatest problem was solved. Without magic, gendalf would have died. That, of course, was important. I watched it many years ago, so can't remember other examples.
Why was it Luke's fault? He was training his pupils as best he could. The only thing that was Luke's fault was having doubt and wanting to kill Kylo, which was the out of character part.
Without Finn's arc the focus could be drawn to the escape ships via the force. Kylo Ren or Snoke could detect Leia and figure it out.
How does Rey get good at fighting? This ties in to The Force Awakens heavily as well, but Rey swings around her stick and lightsaber like it's second nature. Not what we saw in The Force Awakens.
Kylo's goal is essentially a revolution where the old ideas are removed. He wants to get rid of Jedi and Sith, and the warring factions. This is clearly the theme of the movies as a whole because the old favourites are being killed off. Leia has to die at some point because Carrie Fisher is dead. The new characters are supposed to be replacing the roles of the old ones.
The Ring was connected to Sauron, but the main draw was its power. The power of the ring drove men mad and corrupted minds that believed they could use it as a weapon. Gandalf did die, but he was resurrected by God in a Jesus-like way. That's not magic. It's not like magic is never relevant or never does anything, but it's not a solve-all for every problem. The Force is.
Because Kylo "went Dark" right after that incident with Luke. Luke was also his family, but he tried to kill him. These are facts, which can not be denied by anyone. That is why, Luke is responsible for him. Making mistakes is thematic in the movies. I don't see how overreacting for seconds and then questioning oneself if out-of-character. Did he perfectly control his emotios in original trilogy? Also, idea of it was, that people knew Luke as a legend and not as a real person. Rey saw that, but in others eyes, he still was the one, who can't be scratched even by First Order's army. It was clear, that he would not have killed Kylo.
Kylo was distracted by Rey. Snoke, when Leia escaped, was also with Rey and then he died. How would they detect them? Also, sequel is important too, to judge if anything was filler here.
It is not confirmed, but heavily implied, that she gained skills through connection with Kylo. They balance each other. Also, Rey uses Kylo's style, Like: She cried. She did to Kylo, what he did to Finn (difference is, that it was Finn's back that got slashed). She also swings sword when she is not near to the enemy, similar to Kylo.
In addition, Kylo was angered by "a girl" without any reason given to us, which implies connection.
Before Rey concentrated on the Force, she was worse than Finn with the sword. In novel (which is more detailed version of movie), she even heard the voice of Snoke. Connection is still there, even after Snoke's death. They also were on same level, as was seen in the scene of throne.
But Kylo has not achieved anything. And making mistakes was a theme in that movie, so it could be his mistake. We can see his tears in the final scene, when he was standing in the darkness, but there still were rays (Ray and Rey is very similar) of light there. That was symbolism, as we can also see in TFA, when light disappears and next, what we see, is Kylo killing his father. On the "Light Side" old ones are dying, yeah, but ideas are still same.
Sure, but every evil thing died, so what is the difference. Ring was magical and fixed the greatest problem. How is resurrection not magic?
But I am only talking about TLJ. I don't even like Star Wars as a whole and agree, that magic is horrible there. And so far, First Order is still there and characters still died. They suffered more. I just hope, that sequel will improve things, instead of ruining everything.
Yes, Kylo went to the dark after Luke confronted him. But why did Luke confront him?
Resurrection is religion, not magic. The Ring didn't solve the problems, destroying the Ring did. The Ring created problems.
Out of sheer fear, that history will be repeated and everyone will suffer. That was for seconds and then he realised what he was doing (And what Snob said. That is only logical conclusion, really). As he said, he also was ashamed exactly at that moment. Sound of lightsaber was enough to woke Kylo, tho.
But he was resurrected and that is not something you can do without some supernatural stuff. That affected plot. Leia's survival, for instance, didn't affect anything. Also, is not the Force a religion for Jedis?
Destroying the MAGICAL Ring also destroyed evil things, because they were magicaly connected. The Ring's problems had not much of a pay-off. If that is the case, villains also use the Force in Star Wars, so it creates problems too. The Force makes special ones of both side. Volcano was also magical, iirc and they didn't throw the ring themselves in volcano, these mad men (They were not even trying to destroy the ring. They didn't make a choice) did it. My point is, that magic played way more important role here, than hobbits did. Like, they only walked and that resolved the world threatening problem.
It wasn't so good for me. ;(
https://steemit.com/movie/@wiseagent/movie-talk-star-wars-the-last-jedi-where-s-the-originality
yeah, I would not waste my money on this one like I did with the ep7...
I am too much of a weeb to touch this murican stuff but by what you make it sound like it is not worth it to waste any more time over it as well.
true
The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie excluding the Christmas special. Yes, that means it's worse than the prequels. The prequels were consistent with what they were doing and stuck to the plot instead of having 5 different plotlines, all of which were poorly done. The old characters were victims of bad retcon and the new ones were victim of cardboard cutout personality, save Kylo.
It's interesting that this movie, which is so horrid at almost everything it does, has one of the best scenes in Star Wars with Kylo and Rey teaming up. Of course, this is undone within minutes because the writers must have something wrong upstairs.
Realistically the movie was pretty good, you just flame it for the typical plot stuff every single star wars movie in the franchise had.
However the cinematography, directing and photography was perfect and on spot. Very artistic movie with good visual and audio elements. AND YEAH image and sound does matter in the overall movie experience. The scenario was okay, yeah there were some boring moments in that casino, still good for children i guess, but there were some hard worked ones with details etc (like the books Rei stole, the starship collision scene, the child using the force with the broom predicting a new generation of jedi).
Story was way better than episode 7. Probably the best movie for the new generation of viewers. People walk in the cinema and want to remember their old fantasies with the old movies, well guess what, it is a new one, with new stuff. Young people who watch all episodes think of the old movies as a normal thing, they are not impressed. Episodes 1-3 are by common agreement not something special. So yeah, rogue one and this move are right now on the top.
And no, its not a rehash of episodes 5 and 6. More like a rehash of episode 3. Whole parts of the dialogue between Luke and Kylo and Rei are reminding Obi Wan and Anakin.
All in all I agree there were bad scenario "plot holes" or story mistakes, but you leave the movie with a very good impression. The "bads" are less important than the "goods" of the movie, so stop flaming just for the shake of it! :D
Snob, if this movie were made with this changes
it would be passable?
yes, much better