"Litmus test" comes from Chemistry. It's basically (get it) a piece of paper with a dye on it that reacts at a certain pH. If it changes color you know the minimum value of the pH. In general the term "litmus test" is used as a really simple question to get a very simple result and use that as a way to make decisions going forward.
Stake
If you own stake it's yours. You can do as you want with it. It's your power and within your scope to do so. The rest of this community will act accordingly. They may support what you are doing, flag you, and/or start trolling based on what you're doing. My guideline presented below is intended for whales. Dolphins should be doing their best to follow this, and minnows too, but the consequences of doing a shitty job at this as a dolphin or minnow are slim. The consequences of large stake holders acting against a very simple litmus will have a perceptible impact on the rewards pool and culture of this place.
Culture is king
You can try to enforce whatever you want as an individual, but you're gonna have a hard time. The only way to really police this place is through a community effort and we need some alignment with a bare bones "what is considered abuse?" In order to enforce this culture we need whales to have some restraint and we need community leaders to exemplify good behavior that we should all attempt to emulate. With a healthy culture the general amount of abuse should go down making it easier to fight.
A good guideline
Simply ask yourself before you vote: "does this post/comment add value to this platform."
Now, I'm not talking about every minor self vote you make. If you have a funny comment on a friends post and want to make sure they see it I don't think that's a big deal if you're dropping small votes for visability. The ones I'm concerned with are $20 or more self votes (because that's roughly the 50k SP 100% vote level), especially in comments, where the goal is to use your stake to leach from the reward pool. So, before you add some huge self-votes that the community will find reprehensible and encourage others to act in bad faith just ask yourself "Does this add value to the platform."
It's important that you follow these guidelines. You're an investor. Maybe you got your investment through mining and stake-weighted inflation, maybe you got it posting, and maybe you got it through buying in. No matter how you got it please treat this place well with respect. If the investor's can't control themselves how can we expect anyone else. You guys set the tone. Please set a good one.
Some bad examples
If you'd like to see some bad examples of behavior just check out: https://steemit.com/payout_comments
It will show you the highest paid comments. These are almost always whales self voting.
At the top of the list is @ned causing on-platform drama with his former co-founder @dan. Rather than trying to constructively resolve a conflict he's using Steemit's stake, which is supposed to be non-voting according to threads in bitcointalk that discuss how that stake will operate going into the future to argue the need for the stake at the time the mining occurred. @ned's comment is also highly ironic in that it's a self-aggrandizing complaint on a self-aggrandizing comment.
I like Ned. I think he has a hard job, and while things have been slower than many would like he's keeping the wheels on and continues to grow his team. I'm looking forward to a good 2018.
That said, this comment was bullshit, stirred shit, attacks a cofounder, and causes drama. Does that add value to the platform? No. @ned please find a way to peacefully resolved your conflicts off the block and don't use the stake Steemit leadership committed to not use for personal drama, especially with @dan.
- How about @transisto?
I like transisto too. I know he gets in some hot water politically for flagging, but good abuse flagging is one of the most noble things a person can do. He's spoken to me about his hatred of corruption on the platform and how he wants to root it out. A lot of that is fantastic and I support the effort.
How about his random self-votes on comments? NOPE! They provide no value. He says he's doing it to support a project that will support the platform. Well that sounds interesting... But I don't see an update. If he created an update on a project that was supporting the platform would that show evidence of providing value to the platform? Absolutely! I'd love to read that post, and I'd welcome him to upvote it himself. but a 3 word "I'm doing good stuff behind the scenes" comment isn't a good use of community rewards pool. I see no value there.
@transisto I have two suggestions for you. Make posts describing the work or delegate some Steem Power to @msp-bidbot and get a daily payout from a bidbot (more on this later). I highly doubt another whale would complain if you self upvote on a project update about something that helps the block. I know it's 30 more minutes of work, but please make the effort to build a real post rather than just soaking in self-votes through non-productive comments.
This one is especially ironic to me because my litmus test is straight out of @transisto's mouth. He was the one harping on this, and I ultimately think he's right. It's tragic to me that he's now abandoning that principle because sbd is high (that's his own words). The term for that is "selling out." I think highly of @transisto and hope the behavior changes.
- Grumpycat
I like Grumpycat too. Actually I really like all these guys. Grumpy is a cat on a mission to end abusive bot voting. That's actually really noble too. I know it pissed some people off, but he's literally saving the reward pool from bot abuse and giving people more time to catch that kind of shitty abuse. Good work!!!
Then @grumpcat goes and starts self-voting on comments. Are those comments providing sweet sweet value to the platform? It doesn't look like it to me. It mostly looks like a hypocritical cat on a self-voting binge.
Cat. You do some good stuff around here, but that doesn't give you the right to rape the rewards pool. You get to use your stake. You can make those choices; however, if you use it in a selfish manner this community won't respond well. Please stop dropping $100 votes on practically meaningless comments.
Bidbots
There's still some frustration around bid bots, but here's the thing. They are open, transparent, have rules that everyone can view, and they are public. @transisto if you need money for a project put some Steem aside and use a bid bot. It's ok. These aren't killing the platform. They are an incredibly unique approach to marketing that rewards the investor and the user. Where else can you spend money, get advertising, and then get your money back. It's a service and one that's pretty highly valued on the platform.
It's ok to use. Frankly if you don't use them you make it easier for the shitposters to use them. Then the terrorists win.
You don't even have to run one. Again, delegate to msp-bidbot and get a daily return. And now you don't have to self upvote on your own comment spam.
Are some of the bot votes used for abuse? Absolutely, but the bot owners are working with @patrice and @steemcleaners to cut down on abuse. As the owners get better about stopping abuse they'll only get better over time. It's a process and a game of cat and mouse.
Guys, if you need the extra money for some reason and you're looking to get a return on your investment above and beyond the rising price of Steem then please choose this publicly available option rather than upvote your own comments that don't provide value. Again, it's your stake and you can do as you will, but as long as you can't demonstrate some self control I think you're going to get shit from the community.
Well, I upvote myself more than most whales, but it's practically never on comments. I write 1-2 posts a day on average and will continue to do so. I may have more posts than half of the top 20 witnesses combined. I like to write, and I think the writing I do adds value to the platform. I'm not ashamed to self upvote it because it meets my litmus test. Do my posts add value to the platform? YES! They help build communities on this platform. That's one hell of a service too!
On top of that I delegate nearly all of the stake I earn from this place to projects and people that grow this platform. When I self vote on a post I take somewhere between $2-8 USD for my work. I don't think that's out of line and then when I get it back I put almost all of it back into projects that help the community.
I use my bidbot to help me cover some of my life costs while simultaneously giving minnows a chance to earn. I have a fairly steady passive income from it and I can use that and my post rewards to lead a pretty good life while being able to build a community that's going to change the world. I think I found a decent balance that didn't include self-voting on 3-word comments. So, I pass my own litmus test. If I sell out at some point I hope there's someone here to call me out on it and help reign me back in.
Whales. I like you and this platform needs you, but please vote responsibly and lead by good example.
Namaste,
Aggroed
But @aggroed, aren't you one of the worst constantly self upvoting whales on the platform?
I agree with this completely. I post 2x a day and upvote my posts. Like you, they take time to write. I never upvote my comments and rarely will upvote a zap I send out. But the blog posts, never are they short.
I understand your own vote on this post, I can see the time it took to write it. Many people feel that one just throws together a post like this...it doesnt happen. It takes time to research even before writing.
If you posted a youtube video along with a few words, that would be something different. But an in-depth post detailing serious topics on this site, that is worthy of an upvote...your own or from someone else.
I agree with you @aggroed and @taskmaster4450 on self-upvoting. I only joined steemit in December and have struggled with this whole idea. I've played around with the upvoting bots, and sometimes it feels like I'm wrapping up a birthday present for myself, other times it feels like I'm getting paid for a job well done. If I spent time on a post, and I think it's a valuable one, something that adds value as a whole to this community, and I see that because of my 'newness', there isn't much monetary value attached to it, around the 5-day mark, I might use a bot to simply pay for my time and effort. Sometimes it still feels 'icky', but I guess anywhere in the world, we are compensated for our time, effort and value as a whole. When I see it used and abused on a photo or meme from google images for example, then I feel like it is completely self-serving. In the end however, people are free to do what they want, but I think the selfish soon get weeded out here organically...I hope :) Thanks for the 'food for thought'. Cheers!
I do agree with you about the selfish will get weeded out over time.
One thing I just want to mention: this is a social networking site...therefore, it takes time to develop interactions with others. Posting comments is one of the best ways to do that. In fact, I suggest to newer people that it is best to comment a lot more than post articles in the first 60 days.
It is how people get to know you plus you can get some upvotes that way which will help build your SP.
Thank you, that's the advice I've been passing on to any 'newbies' that I meet. I'm sure we all spent hours writing a post only to make a big fat zero on it :) It dawned on me pretty early on that if I wanted to become a part of a community, I needed to show my worth or value to others, and the only way to do that was through genuine commenting and genuine interaction with others. It's like moving to a new town; people aren't running to you, asking to be your friend :) It's up to you to go out and make them Thank you again, Cheers!
Thanks info like this really helps. It is like a sea of information on my own.
You are absolutely correct @aggroed . If we don't see the effecta now, we would see it later.
Yet another valid point. Those at the helm of affairs should lead by example so that we smaller fishes would simply follow.
Yes they sure do and that's why I am gradually becoming addicted to your blog and currently an ardent follower of you.
Agreed
This was a great post. You cleared up some grey areas for me, mainly with the bid bots. I haven't used them to this point because I wasn't sure how to think about it. I will look to invest in some bid bots moving forward and see how it works. I do split a lot of my voting power with those who engage with me but I also want to get paid for my effort as well. I will continue to fine tune my curation process to maximize overall value to the platform. Also, just a side not I have powered up 3 times in the last 8 days and I'm super excited to be investing in my future here on steemit and the community as a whole! Keep on steemin!! :-)
Sounds great!
Be aware for giving content for furthermore
Litmus taste can prove it.
With great stake, comes great responsibility.
I, personally think, this social experiment called steemit, is starting to show us who is indeed a responsible person by nature, and who really isn't.
This is perhaps something we all need to learn from and try to be a good example to others. Especially those with a massive
egostake on steemit.I could get a slider w/ one of those upvotes!
The whales definitely need to look at their content to really see what they are contributing/doing to/for Steemit. If I was a whale I would share my vote around and well, I know I generally like to provide Steemit with something from my posts which even as a gamer is entertainment and something others can enjoy (which I prefer using DTube for).
Bid bots are really worthwhile, but I have been on the receiving end of someone putting 100SBD on one I used, so I only got 70% more up vote value than which isn't even half.
I can't wait until they work out sorting the abuse of the bots, I would like knowing someone can't just dump 20SBD plus at the last minute and steal 30% of the up vote value, giving the rest of the bidders a lower % and ROI%.
I think that's probably the best advice. Vote responsibly. @crimsonclad said a similar thing when i first joined. If you're adding value - there is no problem with a self vote. I took it to heart. As for bid bots...they helped me get started, now that I have a tiny amount to be able to delegate I don't use them as often. But hey...if they're growing people. I don't see the problem. There's bad apples in every community, but my thought is that good usually wins out.
It pains my heart to see the same corruption of my country lurking on steemit.@aggroed I'm not surprised to see all this news all over your blog.
@aggroed
I saw this because you did, @slickwilly. Thanks! I have resteemed as well.
lol. i like the fact that after criticising everybody, u still have to do the same for yourself.
And honestly, i must say that your observations are a bit true judging from the few days i have been on this platform,
don't worry, when I'm quite familiar with the system, i hope to come back and critic this post as well.. lol... nice one
ELDAHCEE
You had me rooting for you up to here:
Maybe he will confirm, or deny, that that is still his position on the matter.I think it was @berniesanders that said, 'Get a job, steem isn't here to support you.', but that was a long time ago.
It remains my contention that ganging up to influence who does, and who doesn't, get rewards is reward pool rape.
When you only support those that join in your reindeer games, and nobody that doesn't, you are on shaky moral ground, in my book.
As long as the contrarians and dissenters don't find support here, because we ain't popular, you are just bringing the same game into steem that most of us are trying to leave behind in the broader world.
Thanks, a lot.
I am going out on a limb here because I am not in a group and feel I am missing out and at some point may have to join one... but like you @freebornangel I am a free agent independent thinker. I love everything that is happening in steemit including the groups because some people really need them and it is a much needed service. But excluding others is the part that sort of bites me.
Well anyway... @aggroed is the best thing that happened for me on my arrival besides my friend that got me in here @steevc and I am sure thousand other members would most likely say the same thing. Respect is what I have ... however I am not in the group...we'll see :)
The issue is in their insularity.
Not looking outside the group for folks to support disadvantages everybody not in the group.
I haven't figured out the secret to getting dissent and contrariness supported, much, here.
It's certain that stinc, et al, have no interests in supporting it, I was told that straight out the gate a year and a half ago, and it has proven to be a valid prediction.
Without dissent we become a circle jerk, and our ideas lose the ability to be unique.
Nothing original is possible without being outside the accepted norm.
I always feel guilty when I self vote. I only have 160 SP though. I like to keep my VP around 80%. I do vote for other people's comments and posts too. But I basically get no reward for doing so. That's my reasoning for self voting. But I still feel guilty. Haha can't imagine what I would feel like with a $20+ vote.
Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same category as you are. I don't think I've ever had a curation reward over about .025. On days when I post, I want to save what VP I have for people who comment on my own posts. On other days, I try to mostly vote on people who interact with me. Yes, I self vote, but it's for pennies, and I mostly do it for visibility. When I remember, I try to hold off on my own vote until other people have a chance to get a vote in too. I don't think we're the people he's talking to.
Yeah I totally agree. I have people that I follow that I upvote daily because I like what they write. There's always random posts that I find that I upvote too.
The thing I have to remind myself when I do self vote though, I'm not making comments purely so I can self vote, the comments I make are because I have something to say. I have seen many people spam a bunch of letters and nonsense just so they can self vote. That is totally wrong.
If your vote is not even in the top 10 for your post then do you really need it? Once I was earning well from others supporting me I stopped self voting. I've delegated half of my sp to others so they can use it to support the community. I do okay, but I think greed could damage steemit if we are not careful. I've seen people leasing sp so they can upvote all their own (low quality) comments. Will the service providers care about that? It's a whole new economy. Let's see how it turns out
But truth needs to be said and truth endures even if its bitter.Well said @aggroed. I think many whales will get angry reading this pot and they would say "What does he think of himself"
Please find time to advise minnow like me on how to help this community. I am thinking about daily upvoting at least 2 introducemyself posts as a starter.
I am also trying to buy at least 500 steem delegation so that my upvote worth can increase and I can really make a difference.
PS
I am self upvoting this comment so that it can get more appearance, hope I am not abusing reward pool.
Superbly written, now my biggest concern with this whole self voting or reward pool rape, is what is going down with the bernie v hj show, they have both started turning on each others commentators, this abuse of power is smashing new people into the ground, just for showing interest in what they think, are two people to vote on, for high returns. The new people have no idea about the whole war, in's and outs, they just landed here. And some of them paid to get in here. I think it is beyond unfair for either b or h to be bashing down new people, who are simply trying to follow "the suggested rules" to vote for and comment on high value posts. Peace and respect, drops mic & out.
self voted comment to rise above spam.
Sometimes I self vote just to push my comment to the top of the stack. How do you feel about this? It's not because I think my comment is good. I just want to start a conversation.
You have a small stake it is t a big deal. Try to keep it as little as you need to reach top comment and meh.
That's how I feel about it too.
U r just awesome. The first post i saw of urs i started to follow u.
The way u connect different things ti form such a beautiful complexity. U r just flawless.
I upvoted u knowing it wont make a difference but u deserve it...@aggroed
I wish I understood this post
Dont worry. It's a matter of time. You will get there. Just don't relent!
nice post
You described everything in details,that is very helpful for all.That's a very nice post.Peoples are going to be benefited by your post.Thank's to u.upvoted
good
Stunning post, thanks for sharing this
@grumpycat, your presence is needed here.
Come and read this
Thank you
You are a good friend I am amazed you are steemit friends good and that I have ever known
thanks for sharing about somthing chemistry
overall that ls very good
I apprise with you
Steemit how big a platform I have they got the idea of your post.
You are truly right @agroed I think it's high time the bots find a way to curb these spammers... Because they are ruining the Bot experience for the minnows especially. @dee-y over and out.
I just can't tell you how informed I am reading this, you did a crash course of Steemians whales in just few minutes of reading.
amazing and very interessing post thank you for sharing resteemed and shared in the steemit faceebook group
Resteemit done
Oye nunca te habia escrito, bueno siempre ando con el ancho de banda en cero...jejej pero me es grato leerte porque a pesar de que eres el que encabeza la lista de Testigos de Steemit...
escribes sencillo y llegas muy bien. Es bueno que uno haga lo que le gusta; y si te gusta escribir pues hazlo. Así estés "podrido en dinero" jaja ... esa es una frase que usa aquí para las personas con dinero..
Quiero aprovechar también para felicitarte por colaborar para que esta Pagina este al servicio de tantas personas y podamos hacer algo distinto y que cambien el curso de tantas vidas...
Es triste uno cambiar porque ya no te falte nada...Un abrazo fue un placer leer tu Post.
It's disheartening when the top of the food chain who are supposed to role models are rather setting a bad example and raping the reward pool. We can all survive on steemit without trying to run the other pereon down. Thank you for writing this @aggroed . If only they can take some time to read and have some understanding. Let the whales stop their gight already and rather concentrate in adding value to the community. Live and Let's live.
I don’t really understand how the steemit operates, but I do understand this: “Do my posts add value to the platform? YES! They help build communities on this platform. That's one hell of a service too!”
I find the info in this post of high value, really ;)
....The ones I'm concerned with are $20 or more self votes (because that's roughly the 50k SP 100% vote level), especially in comments...
... If you'd like to see some bad examples of behavior just check out: https://steemit.com/payout_comments
It will show you the highest paid comments...
..These are almost always whales self voting.
My experience.
A friend of mine made an introductory post, and someone who is not even a whale commented on it. He did not upvote my friend's post, but he upvoted his irrelevant comments (two comments) and got $8 without adding a cent to my friend's post.
My conclusion.
People can be greedy! Those that are shouting bad governance will do worse if they are given the mantle of leadership!
Give me litle rat
WONDERFUL POTS FRIEND. KEEP IT UP . BLESSINGS.
I haven’t upvoted my comments recently seeing as my power is low I run out, I never thought past the point of trying to get visibility. My vote doesn’t count for much anyhow. I do not think you need worry about your self votes on posts, I always find your posts helpful in some way and personally think you should be able to pay yourself for the effort without confrontation! That said your examples show how some try to “milk” the system for personal gains.@aggroed very well put, excellent examples!
It seems that power corrupts and absolute power currupts absolutely. Checks and balances should be implemented to keep whales and everyone else in line. Thats why there are three branches of US government, although that structure has been compromised.
I notice the technique of the monster flag combined with a monster self-upvote on a comment on the very same post seems to be a way to redeem the whalepower used on the flag. I don't know if this is justified or not but it does help to explain apparent hypocritical acts by very accomplished, intelligent and thoughtful individuals. I think your litmus test is a great guideline for the platform.
Very good post and very well written. Thank you for it.
I do hereby solemnly swear or aver that if you sell out I will come after you like a biting sow. You asked, I will.
@aggroed while I welcome your post, I still have an issue with the self upvoting. You talk about passing your own litmus test, but should it not be up to the community to decide if your post or comment passes the litmus test, or am I missing some understanding? As always thanks for your continued work to build this community.
Completely off the topic, but related,Can you tell me what a "producer award" is? I am part of a group of individuals that try to help new users, and if any should ask me that question I would like to be able to answer it. Does it have something to do with being a witness?
You upvoting yourself at $0.100 is not really a big deal. What people, especially new users do not see is the percentage a vote is unless they do a little bit of digging. On this post it was a 10% upvote. I think a lot of people saw what @grumpycat did, and I still think that a lot of people new users, dolphin, and yes whales fail to understand what he was trying to point out about the self voting. Prior to his doing that how many people even realized it was going on? Also I do not have "all" the background and inside info of what went on between @dan and @ned, but Steemit is pretty much @neds. Yes he lets people play in his sandbox, he let people invest in his sandbox. But at the end of the day it is his sandbox. He is responsible and answerable to any remaining owners, but if he want to destroy it, isn't it his right? So I really do not have a problem with him deciding if he wants something posted or not posted. Advertised or not advertised. Think of all the possible upcoming problems if he would have been actively supporting and promoting bitconnect, ( I think that was the scam crypto, but not totally sure), he would have FBI, CIA, State of Texas Justice division, and S&P police division pounding down his door, along with probably a hundred other government I want my slice of the justice pie alphabet soup departments. So his toy, he is allowed to be as petulant as the next guy if he wants, yeah it may affect his future ability to draw investors, but that is the bed he makes every time he commits something to the blockchain.
I didn't fully understand this post, but I do agree that too much self voting when you have a large stake can be harmful to the platform. I'm only a tiny minnow, and I do upvote my posts because I take time to write them and my vote is only worth a few cents anyway. I don't upvote my comments on other people's posts though because it feels cheesy. I also upvote other people's posts and comments.
I think your solutions are reasonable and I appreciate you using your voice and platform to call out the other "big guys" who are abusing the rewards pool. I can imagine as someone who worked in some way to get where they are today, it must be tempting to self vote (even meaningless comments), but just think of all of us little gals who are hustling great content each day, sometimes which doesn't get seen for the value it really adds to the platform.
It's my hope that whales will have compassion and open their hearts. I don't believe it's too much to ask.
Thanks @aggroed. I also think it's fine to upvote your own post (probably up to 2 per day) if they are high quality content, and especially, as you state, you're donating some of it and/or delegating the SP gained. To me, that makes abundant sense! XO @mountainjewel
Very cool post @aggroed . I like the tone of this post as well as the content. WE all have to live by our own rules, and through consensus we are finding a common ground of what is OK and what is not. It's good to see this discussion happening, and some efforts toward keeping the 'company' that we are all invested in to be honorous as well as lucrative!
I know many whales are working really hard on keeping Steemit on the good path, and i DO have faith and confidence that even though (right now) it is somewhat of an oligarchy.. that in time things will spread out a bit more evenly. What I am REALLY happy about is that despite reward pool rape by many with a lot of power, they also have a genuine love of Steemit and generally act in a decent and cool manner and have good intentions.
The big difference between Steemit Oligarchy and Centralised State Run Oligarchy is that we all genuinely DO have the opportunity and potential to rise up and become one of the big fish. No one can stop that here, and this is Steemit's 'Get Out Of Jail Card', ... that it IS decentralised in the most fundamental ways..
Ommmm
Good post @aggroed you've shone the light on a few things here I wasn't immediately aware of. Self-voting is a tough topic to take on but I think the litmus test idea is fair.
"Culture is King" I think is the key component for the long term success of the platform. I'm exploring this and hoping to come up with some best practise guidelines for people to aspire to. I think if we can improve our culture we can set a good example and lift the whole platform up.
Personally I dislike self voting at all levels of the game. I pledged a few months ago to not self vote and I have stuck to it. I'm just a minnow so the value barely makes a difference but as I grow I will maintain this personal rule.
Of course, everyone is free to decide how to use their stake.