It's no longer news that hard fork 21 is underway on the Steem blockchain. As you probably know, with every hard fork comes some key changes.
A fine post by @timcliff have done justice to the proposed updates that HF21 will bring. I will advise that you find time to read those posts.
While it is left for the witnesses to either vote in favour or against many of the proposed changes, today I'll be discussing what seems like a radical change - the 50/50 curation model.
This model is a subset of the Economic Improvement Proposal. It will see a radical adjustment in the post payout as we presently know it.
Under the current regime, the author gets 75% of the payouts on posts while the curators get to share the remaining 25% depending on their voting weights.
However, the proposed 50/50 model, which has already been introduced on https://palnet.io, will give curators equal earning power as the author. Under this regime, the author will earn 50% of the payouts on posts while the curators will have to share the remaining 50% - of course, depending on the voting powers of the curators.
The proposal above, frankly, is the most controversial update of the forthcoming hard fork. And it has been received with great resistance in many quarters.
Majority of those who kick against the proposal have argued that the model will give more power to the whales and take away reward from the authors who add value to this blockchain.
Another argument that has been put forward is that a 50/50 curation model may end up demoralizing authors, quenching their interest in Steem and moving their blogging activities to other rival blockchains.
A Different Approach to the Matter
Personally, I agree that a 50/50 curation model will indeed give more powers to the whales because they will earn more. However, this is a deserved power, deserved because the whales are investors. And for things to progress on here, the investors ought to get reasonable returns on their investments.
One important point we often ignore here is that neither Steem, Steemit nor any other dapp on here can exist without dedicated investors, investors who have a long term perspective. And who are such kind of investors? They are those who hold Steem power.
Therefore, as a way of providing incentives to SP holders, a 50/50 curation model is necessary. If investors can earn more from holding Steem, it is likely that more investors will come into the scene. And that could do some magic to the price of Steem in the long run.
Also, it is less likely that content creators will leave Steem because their rewards have been slashed. For now, there is no known competitor of Steem. With the whole hype about Voice, it is still not an alternative to Steemit yet.
Still on the above point, there is a strong likelihood that if author rewards are cut while curator rewards are increased, curators will likely vote more on posts to earn more reward. Of course, all parties (both curators and authors) will benefit from the proposed 50/50 economic model.
Finally, I believe that the proposed model will reduce, if not eliminate, the use of bid bots - which many have rightly pointed out as the major problem confronting engagement on this ecosystem. If the 50/50 model pulls through, any Steem sent to bid bots can NEVER be profitable. We may see many bid bot owners closing shop in the coming days.
Until I come your way again, I wish you a FULL STEEM AHEAD.
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Are you a minnow and you're already thinking of giving up on Steemit? Please don't quit. Kindly follow @Steemitcentral and use the steemitcentral tag in your posts to get some upvotes.
I am @gandhibaba, the young man who goes about carrying his magical pen, not his gun, in his pockets.
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Does anyone know when the hard fork will happen, other than soon? like is there a website to check? thanks
I actually couldn't find any information about it :(
I don't have much to say that hasn't been said already. On the surface of it, it looks like content creators are getting a 33% pay cut and curators are getting a 50% rise. Maybe it will encourage more people to vest their steem as SP and so reduce supply on the markets and in turn cause a price rise. That'd be a bit of a win imo since demand/supply curves tend to be curved rather than linear.
About bidbots - I don't think they're going away because of HF21. The market prices for upvotes will adjust accordingly and they bots will stay. The bidbots can afford it since their previous loses are probably offset by curation gains.
Time will tell.
Dear @eturnerx
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your opinion with us.
Nothing can be said that others didn't. I know that we will be repeating ourselfs,However I'm curious what majority of people think.
Neither do I. Bot's will surely stay and bots will be growing twice as fast. That's scary.
Yours
Piotr
Hi @gandhibaba, the big boss man @crypto.piotr sent me a memo about this post and here is my 2 cents thoughts about the whole thing.
I for one have read so many post for and against the HF21 and what I can say is that so many things and outcome are based on the assumption that people will behave this way or that way.
What I have seen in my many years on planet earth is that humans are unpredictable.
Some of the assumptions of the HF21 is based on the fact that people will behave in a certain manner or way. Has there been any statistics done on the what if's?
A lot of content creators earn their livelihood on Steem, what if they leave Steem because they view this as a way of reducing their earnings from 75% to 50%.
Have we looked at most of the post of content creators and what they earn without promoting their post? Many earn less than $1. What if they decide not to promote their post? How is their earning going to go up?
What if content creators decide to burst content creation and just place the SP for sell?
The more I look at this the more it is telling me we are assuming a lot and taking things for granted.
I am a content creator, I make one or two post daily, I am not going anywhere but my actions going forward will be based on the reactions of the majority.
If you say bid bot is our problem then put a cap on it. I believe if you're traveling internationally I believe there is a max cash you can carry, why can't we do that for bid bot?
If self vote is the issue why can't a cap be placed on it say once a day?
I've tried hard to understand the point of HF21, I've really tried and that is why I keep reading post for and against it.
All i can say at the end is that HF21 is based on assumptions that humans will behave in a certain way. If the assumptions end up becoming correct, that is what we have to wait for and see. All I know is that human beings are unpredictable and you can take that to the bank.
Hi @ketcom. It's me one more time.
That's a lot. Why so much?
I also wanted to make some suggestion.
My impression is, that the hardest part of attracting attention on STEEMIT is the fact, that our audience have very little chance to actually find our publications. Lack of solid notification system is an obvious issue. And regardless how hard I would try - there is very little chance I would find out about your new interesting publications (my feed is just flooded with to many posts).
Please allow me to share some suggestion with you. If you would ever publish content related to blockchain, crypto, artificial intelligence, psychology etc.
then perhaps you could simply send me memo with link to that post.This way not only I would have a chance to read your publication, but I will also
upvote it right away with 20k SP voting power. If I would consider it interesting then I may also share it with wider audience.Please let me know what do you think.
Yours,
Piotr
Dear @ketcom
I must admit that your comment put a huge smile on my face. Especially when you called me "the big boss man" hahaha :) Love it!
Thanks for sharing your own 2 cents with us on this particular subject.
our assumption should always be that people will look for ways to abuse each system, to gain short term benefits.
Unfortunatelly it's not the case now. HF21 is showing some vision. Vision that could be perfect but this vision completely seem to ignore the fact, that it's opening enormous doors for financial abuses.
the worst of all is the fact, that those who actually bring value to Steemit platform by commenting and encouraging authors - they are basically abandoned.
I'm replying to huge amount of comments daily and as an author of those comments I get hardly anything. And all those rewards it will be reduced even more.
We're on the same page. I've also read some people saying how HF21 will stop bidbot and self-upvote abuse. How it will encourage quality curating. But I see all of it as a "wishes" and at the same time growing threats seem to be very real.
Yours
Piotr
Thank you @crypto.piotr for sharing this post to me.
Dear @gandhibaba,
I think changing the current 75/25 to 50/50 is unfair to the authors. I know both authors and curators are important. However, authors do the heavy lifting so they deserve more than just half of the payout.
As a daily content creator, I find 50/50 rather demotivating as I will be facing a pay cut. I might consider to reduce the frequency of posting content and spend more time upvoting and curating.
Coming up with consistent quality content can be time and energy consuming, and if authors don't get rewarded enough for their hardwork then they might as well consider switching their roles in this platform, or worse, leave and join a different platform.
Moreover, I don't think that the 50/50 decision will reduce bots. Chances are we will lose authors and have a rise in bots as they will be able to earn more by just upvoting content.
Posted using Partiko Android
Amazing comment @yashny
It's clear to me that we're having very similar view on that particular issue.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
neither do I.
Yours
Piotr
Yes, we do and I'm glad that we are not alone. My pleasure =)
Posted using Partiko Android
The 50/50 split will:
So no, this won't hurt bid bots. Without a few simple fixes, that should be implemented with the EIP, not some distant HF in the future, the EIP will make the bid bot economy flourish like never before.
Amazing comment @pibara
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
Absolutely. Surely bot-owners will have to change some algorythms to allow bots to function.
You nailed it.
And those who simply delegate to bidbots will most likely enjoy higher rewards. So delegators will be growing fast and bidbots will be growing twice as fast as they do now. Right?
ps. thx for sharing link to your old publication.
Yours
Piotr
Greetings @crypto.piotr, @gandhibaba and to everyone,
Clearly many things can happen with a single change or a shake-up.
For a beginner, like me, it may not affect me greatly or I may not even notice it.
50/50 or 75/25 for my small Steem may not buy me candy.
That is why I enjoyed reading the concern and the comments regarding Steemit platform.
If everybody will maximize the benefit that it will bring then we just have to go for it.
In any way, being vigilant is what makes a community like this survive.
Change is inevitable if we truly want to be a champion we have to embrace the path that may benefit us the most and concentrate where we can profit the most in that given situation.
We can be a champion for a year or will be in the finals for 5 straight years in which play there will always be a winner. It is nice to be in either of these teams.
Teamwork for curators and authors should be emphasized and enhanced so we can all benefit as a community.
Warm Regards to everybody
Amazing comment @jackramsey
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
Yours
Piotr
Happy to hear that
Regards
Posted using Partiko Android
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This problem with new HF21 reward system is very atual for people. And I think both sides have right arguments. But maybe we need third one 'answer' and button like a option when people can choose by themselves reward persantyage? But big negative side that self voters and abusers won't choose 50/50 voluntarily I think
@ganhibaba [email protected] I have read posts on both sides of this debate and I have been unable to determine what side to believe. Without having real test cases to evaluate, no one has presented real data that I am able to evaluate to push me one way or the other. I just have to hope the change does not create massive turmoil. We are a community who are here for different reasons. I came with the hope to earn something (however small or large) for my efforts here and found some communities that I enjoy engaging with. As with all "social" online sites there are good people and negative people. I just hope the good engaging people win out in the end.
Dear @mytechtrail
Wow. not many people seem to be as neutral as you are :)
Appreciate reading this discussion and sharing your view.
Yours
Piotr
Do you mean authors?
With this remark I get my share of future 50% :(
My take is that these investors have enough reward already. They don't need even bigger percentage. In other words, they don't need to take even more away from other contributors.
Thanks for spotting the error. I meant authors not curators. I am correcting it right away. Also, thanks for your contribution. It is well received.
Dear @ervin-lemark
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your opinion with us.
Yours
Piotr
I guess the people who decide the changes, or forks, do an exhaustive study of the consequences of those changes, don't they?
Steemit has lost and will continue to lose users. So I think they should look for a solution to prevent those who aren't leaving and investors continue to support the platform.
Steemit will be faced with new competencies, who knows, Voice will possibly take down all platforms if it offers something better.
A 50/50 reward distribution, in the end, doesn't sound so bad
Dear @jadams2k18
I guess they do. And then they think how to put their all ideas into nice words :)
Very true. And "milking the cow" before it dies isn't solution. You out of all people should know it :) Imagine that wealth in your country is being wrongly distributed and changes are being introduced and all of sudden those who have money are getting even more, end all hardworking people are being paid less.
How would that solve problem?
Proposed system can only work if so called Whales would actually start delegating their Steem Power to quality curators. That would indeed allow those curators to be rewarded for their work and benefit entire platoform.
I'm simply afraid, that this will not happen. That at the end most whales will continue auto-upvoting publications of very few people, with their powerful votes and without putting any effort they will start earning x2 more than they did so far.
It surely would encourage them to slow down with powering down, which in effect would most likely bring up the price of STEEM. But that is the only positive outcome. And what would happen year from now, when those "whales" would start dumping this easily earned STEEM?
I wonder if you would agree with me on this one.
Yours
Piotr
"milking the cow"... I never heard that expression. But I know what you mean. I have seen many examples with bank managers who fled the country with the savings of many workers.
I get your point. And I agree with you
Thanks @crypto.piotr
Over all I’m confident Steem will be fine .
The reward curve change I agree with.
I don’t think we need the upvote change to 50/50. But we will just adjust like we always do .
One thing I will mention is that we should not be too harsh on the witnesses. Ever try getting a group of people to all agree on something. It’s not easy. I take my hat off to them .
One thing I will say though is that it is hard to get people to engage with you . After a year I’m only just starting to get a few regular people engaging with me .
So a few more people looking to start engaging would not go astray.
Although i don’t really consider getting an upvote engagement. Normally when I’m talking about engagement I’m talking about getting a comment on my content.
As for the bots, good luck getting rid of them . They will just adjust with the rest of us humans.
I read a few of the comments on this post and you have got some great engagement. I agree with some and disagree with others .
Anyways thanks for posting,
Have an awesome day!
Posted using Partiko iOS
Amazing comment @mickvir
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
You've lost me here. Can "we" actually upvote or decline some particular change? Is there any poll that allows us (common users) to have any impact?
Very true. I'm just sad that they seem to agree that creating system that would benefit current powerful stakeholders and reduce rewards for all those who create content (value) is what they actually all agreed on.
One thing I will mention is that we should not be too harsh on the witnesses. Ever try getting a group of people to all agree on something. It’s not easy. I take my hat off to them .
Did you ever consider sending memos to your most active followers with link to your new publications? That's the most efficient way of sending notifications and it increase chance of people reading your post greately.
Yours
Piotr
It's me again @mickvir
I also wanted to make some suggestion.
My impression is, that the hardest part of attracting attention on STEEMIT is the fact, that our audience have very little chance to actually find our publications. Lack of solid notification system is an obvious issue. And regardless how hard I would try - there is very little chance I would find out about your new interesting publications (my feed is just flooded with to many posts).
Please allow me to share some suggestion with you. If you would ever publish content related to blockchain, crypto, artificial intelligence, psychology etc.
then perhaps you could simply send me memo with link to that post.This way not only I would have a chance to read your publication, but I will also
upvote it right away with 20k SP voting power. If I would consider it interesting then I may also share it with wider audience.Please let me know what do you think.
Cheers, Piotr
Dear @gandhibaba, much like you there are other users making posts concerned about the same thing. BuildTeam has created a forum where such discussions can be collated in a structured in an evergreen discoverable fashion. I invite you to share your views on the HF21 thread: https://neosteem.com/topic-list?category=hf21
Hello nice post and enjoy the start of debate on the topic. I have to admit that my gut feel is that this will be good for the platform. As someone who enjoys viewing quality posts and pics, I spend a good deal of time curating. As such the increased curation rewards are certainly appealing.
I've heard some authors complain that the reduced payout proportion will negatively affect their income. I'm not sure that is the case. If there is higher value paid for curating, more people will vote on quality posts, and so while the proportion may be less, the amount will be more. Spam and low quality votes may not see as much manual voting so their payout will certainly be reduced. That is a good thing. Maybe those folks will leave, and be replace by new folks producing quality posts, and doing manual upvoting on quality posts.
The really good news is to see that the folks running the platform are still engaged and making changes in a desire to improve the platform. Most of the changes I've seen in the 2 years I've been on have been for the better. Maybe not all of them will be, but good to see the attempts and continued interest.
Enjoy!
@ksteem
Amazing comment @ksteem
Thank you for sharing your opinion. Even if we're having different view on some of those points. I appreciate your time.
Yours
Piotr
It is interesting to see the progress that will occur with the future of Steem, hopefully the advantages and disadvantages have also been considered before this idea is implemented ...
I'm just impatient to wait for its development ..
Dear @alpayasteem
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your opinion with us.
Yours
Piotr
Oke my dear @crypto.piotr
I think the 75/25 model was good for authors but curators of minnow status or less have a hard time getting good rewards for votes we wont know how much of an impact it will have on the steem blockchain as a whole but i do know it is gonna leave some people in shock
Posted using Partiko Android
Dear @gandhibaba
It's me again (my second comment)
You're overestimating investors and their importance. Let's imagine some Masternode which is providing dividents to investors. For doing what? Just for holding token on their wallet.
Price of such a token would surely grow as long as there would be more fresh investors. But that price wouldn't reflect any sort of value. Because no value would be created.
Right now there is less and less content created on Steemit. value of this platform is decreasing. And cutting rewards of those people is not a long term game.
You're seeing things from very positive angle. It's almost like "praying for rain" (no offence my friend). I see same topic from different angle. Angle of people who would like to abuse this system for rapid gains. And opportunities will be enormous.
Surely 50/50 doesn't encourage to power down. STEEM may have a great bull run, but once price will drop then show will be over.
Again: those who only think about financial gains will surely enjoy great times.
However if price of Steem would increase to such a levels, then we would witness slow death of this platform. New users would never spent that much money to power up to at least 40-50SP (Without it using Steemit doesnt make sense at all. Resouce Credit limits and restrictions are just insane hostile to new users).
ps. Would you mind if I would share this publication with wider audience? I really would love to hear what other people have to say.
Cheers
Piotr
If the price will turn to positive than for sure people will not buy steem i agree with it. BUT! They can start to create content😉 so they can earn.
Maybe i am also too much positive minded but i do believe it will be q good change.
( if not than i am mistake ) 😂
Posted using Partiko Android
Tried that one. Doesn't work. Most of the reward pool goes to the wales and their bots. What really is needed is the activation of the 3rd »√x« reward curve which would reduce the power of the wales.
In case you don't know, there are three rewards curves build into the system. Simplified: x², x and √x.
x² increases the power of the wales and was active in the beginning.
x is neutral and currently active.
√x decreases the poser of the wales.
The last one is needed to support new users but that will never happen. The witnesses won't curb themselves. Instead there is discussion to reactivate x² which would be disastrous.
If x² was reactivated I would probably power down and HOLR until there is is a good time to sell.
Dear @krischik
I realized that some people are simply afraid that whales will break their large accounts into thousands smaller ones.
Yours
Piotr
Possible. But it would be a lot more work for them.
Posted using Partiko Android
Doesnt work because everyone sell they vote.
But with 50/50 maybe it will not worth. But it will worth to currate.
Lets see how it will goes. I am positive right now.
Posted using Partiko Android
Dear @gabbynhice
I only just realized that I never thanked you for your comment. Appreciate it.
Yours
Piotr
He he no worries i know most of us are busy😉 he he
Posted using Partiko Android
That is horrible, most authors gains very little and share even more gains with curators means those who can't invest will go demotivated.
Posted using Partiko Android
For those who can't invest SteemIt is already not very attractive. So say it carefully.
You received 50 Hobo tokens!
You received 50 Hobo tokens!
@gandhibaba I hate to say this but you are kind of wrong in a lot of points. I feel like the current model of 75/25 split is perfectly ok, I would have even been ok with a 65/35 Split in favor of Authors but 50/50 split is just a lot and I have my reasons for it.
1. From Steemit's point of view, they are proposing a 50/50 Split but in reality, it's going to be a 50% Curator Reward/40% Author Reward/10% Beneficiary Reward as most of the Daaps on the STEEM Blockchain uses at least a 10% Beneficiary Reward cut which is necessary for them to Sustain as well. By opting for this new Split procedure most of the Dapps might just shut down as most people wouldn't be psyched to use the Daaps if they take a 10% cut from their already low Author Reward.
2. It seems STEEM needs more Authors right now as might be shown in @penguinpablo's Graphs.
So shouldn't we try to keep Authors on the Platform?
3. Let's talk about the Bid Bot Issue. You said in the Post that Bid Bots might go down as it wouldn't be profitable for Authors to use certain amount of STEEM only to get a tiny Percent back but Bid Bots are currently running on the same Principle. Even now Bid Bot's aren't profitable for the Authors, it just gives a little exposure to their Content, not any Profit. I do agree that some Bid Bots may shut down but the Bigger ones will most certainly be still active.
Alas, I just want to say that I read the entire Post from @timcliff and I am ok with almost everything except the 50/50 Split as I believe there wouldn't be much content to Curate if there are no Creators to write Content. I would have agreed with a 50/50 Split if Steemit was lacking Curators but it seems currently we are lacking Authors.
That is indeed a very interesting point. Until now my Utopian posts had a 5% share for @utopian.pay and 5% for @steemplus-pay — I might have to reconsider that. But then I'm not in for the money anyway.
Indeed, SteemIt is lacking good quality authors.
Also have a !BEER
Even I am not here for the Money, I am here cause I love Blogging here. It is funny how much I have written about myself here in two Years than what I wrote on Facebook in 4-5 Years. Even if this 50/50 Split happens I will still be here Blogging. But I can say this for sure that a lot of Authors are going to drop out as a lot of them do want to Earn something out of this and that is what worries me.
The Last HardFork also took out a lot of Authors and it looks like this one might be heading toward the same Direction.
BTW thanks for the BEER now I have 5 BEER's in my Fridge 5 more to go then I will start Distributing as well.
Thanks for the fine points you've made here. Permit me to briskly make the following points.
Your first point is well received. Those who use dapps may be affected sharply because of the cut. However, you did not mention that dapps usually curate posts of those who use it. Esteem, Partiko, Busy, etc upvote posts that also increase the reward of authors.
From your charts, I find a correlation between the price of Steem and the activities of authors. Surely we need to keep authors and only a surge in the price of Steem can do that. And as @cranium noted, HF21 can do that magic.
Bid bots cannot survive the 50/50 curation model because they will become extremely unprofitable. I stand to be corrected, anyway.
Thanks for your inputs. I appreciate.
As for Dapps curating content there is a slight problem as it is not guaranteed that you will get upvoted. I don't really remember this but Busy curates either once every 12 hours or once every 22 hours and it also depends on the number of Followers you have. As for esteem there is no certainty of getting upvoted Everytime. Even if the posts gets upvoted it will still not be sufficient for the newbies. I have crunched in the numbers already.
Correlation of STEEM price to Authors, this is something I do agree on but what I wanted to say in my previous comment was that it is not that hard to bring in Authors but is surely hard to keep them Blogging on Steemit. I started 2 years ago and I hardly see the guys who started Blogging with me here on Steemit.
As for the Bid Bots I can assure you there are a lot of ways for them to be perfectly ok even after the 50/50 split. I can just give you one method right now. They can just increase the Minimum ROI from 10% to 50% and people would again jump in. You might say that it wouldn't be profitable for the Bidbot owners as they have to pay their delegators as well. There is even a way for that, they will be receiving extra Curation because of the 50/50 split so they can just power down some SP each week and pay the delegators. It's that easy. Even after doing that they can probably make a profit so I really don't see Bid Bits going out of Business. The Small ones might go but not the big ones.
Thanks for the clarity. I see what you mean now and understand the noble thoughts behind those positions. Cheers!
I love how responsive you are @arunava
Keep it up! :)
To view or trade
BEERgo to steem-engine.com.Hey @arunava, here is your
BEERtoken. Enjoy it!Amazing comment @arunava
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
It's clear to me that we're having very similar view on that particular issue.
I didn't think about it. Thx for pointing it out.
Exactly. And those bidbots will be growing twice as fast.
You nailed it. Unfortunatelly I see it in very same gloomy way :(
Yours
Piotr
Hi @gandhibaba,
Thanks to @crypto.piotr my star above all on the content finders sky I managed to find and read this nice post.
As an older user I’m so tired of technicals and maths that doesn’t enlighten my view but darkens it more as well as deincentivates me more and more as it makes me think this ecosystem is only for crypto engineers and rich people.
I’m mainly a curator due to my persistent lack of free time(real life duties) to create the content I’m used to: quality content mainly in the musical esfere.
Said that, the 50/50 reward model would may benefit me more than the current model, nice!
As an author it won’t like me, no mater the side from which I look at it. Sry I’m not able to see an advantage for authoring...it seems quite unfair to me. I’ve always thought that the key aspect of Steem is “Content” and it comes from authors, if they don’t feel rewarded properly they won’t produce it, why should they?...only big whales would do it to vote-farm and self vote them to earn even more.
About bid-bots, I don’t think they will close the shop but adjust their code to the new system. They work on the curation side and there will be more “cake” to eat so...
Thanks for putting the stuff on the table, at least we can talk about it from a human perspective oposite from the normal technical one.
My best wishes for you,
Cheers
Amazing comment @drakernoise
Did you just call me STAR? :) OMG. Im blushing.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
Yours
Piotr
You received 50 Hobo tokens!
Dear @gandhibaba:
Spanish
Yo veo en esta nueva división de ganancias, tomando en cuenta las limitaciones en cuanto a Voting Power, como un mecanismo para que quienes tienen mayor cantidad de poder obtengan más rápido mucho más y quienes tienen meno, obtengan menos ganancia y además en mayor cantidad de tiempo. Llevado a la vida real que quienes tienen más obtengan mucho más y quienes tienen menos, se queden como minnows por mucho más tiempo o deserten de la plataforma.
Además se desestima el trabajo creador, al valorarlo con el mismo porcentaje con que se valora al que vota.
Translate into English
I see in this new division of profits, taking into account the limitations in terms of voting power, as a mechanism for those who have more power to obtain time Take real life than those who are more likely to get much more than those who have more they have less, they stay as small for much longer or they desert the platform.
In addition to the publication of the work, the valuation with the same percentage with the value of voting.
Thanks for Sharing
You received 50 Hobo tokens!
Thanks a lot for your gift.
I'm happy.
They´re my first hobo tokens.
Where can I look for that tokens??
Hello, you can find them at https://steem-engine.com, which is a sidechain of Steem.
Also, you can download a browser extension wallet that is similar to Ethereum's Metamask wallet. This wallet is called Keychain and it is meant for Steem and Steem Engine tokens. :)
A Different Approach to the Matter :
Personally, I am not agree that a 50/50 curation model .
But I am agree , should give more powers to the whales .
So I suggest it should change to the following way...
Curation model still is 75/25.
But the curator's 25% allocation can take a curve allocation.
In other words, the curator still scores 25% in total,
but proportion is not horizontal line, (black line as shown)
proportion can change to curve line, (pictured red line)
its mean is , if voter use more vote power, he can get more reward (his rewardwill add).
This can also inspire the whales to use higher voting rights.
I think the fork can in 1/3 of the place,
That is,
If the voter's power is less than 1/3, the reward will be reduced.
If the voter's power is higher than 1/3, the reward will increase.
Original curation distribution ratio: horizontal line
Proposed curaration ratio: curve line
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thank you very much !
Dear @cloudblade
It's clear to me that we're having very similar view on that particular issue.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Yours
Piotr
This post did generate a lot of discussion. Very nice! 😊
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Far, far from an expert across this, but I suspect HF21 will work at first…for some.
For those who it doesn’t they may find themselves pushed aside quietly by matter of no comments or limited votes of worth and/or hidden comments. While it will represent a small hit to freedom on the platform it may be enough to show positive results if we are using immediate price of Steem as our only measurement of success.
It's important to note - I don't believe this will address the governance issues, it just shuffles and disperses it a bit. It will be a positive effect though I think.
My guess at the problems and what will happen
It’s likely those powerful holders behind the scenes will increase the upvote they are giving to whom they think are good content creators, so the people they deem good people won’t even notice the move to 50/50. Authors will still end up getting paid what they do today (odds favor it will actually be even more). It may have already started, anyone noticed your upvote starting to creep up (and I’m not talking $ value, I’m talking the amount of SP/SBD).
So based on that I think we can say it will be received mostly as a win.
This is moving the power from one or two perceived bad whales running bidbots, to a group of people whom truly believe they can send the price up by ensuring valuable content – in their view. Notably it also shifts the reward to them 50/50 encourages the bad whale bot operators to join them in the ‘not so much but still significant profit taking’ that comes from being a significant share holder that can impact your own dividend (upvote). I’m sure they will just automate the upvote process anyways, but the decision making will be made somewhat up front or delegated and manual .i.e. you won’t be able to use a blind bid bod like you can today.
The issue is one of governance.
This is because of the inherent conflict of interest. Whales, who are Witnesses, who are App creators, who are workers, who are consumers.
There are better ways I think, but those in the inner circle have to want it to be fixed - I just can't think of anyway that doesn't weaken their personal benefit.
I think its important to understand there are no wicked or wrong people of Steem, just people behaving as humans do - trying to make a buck or in some cases as much of a buck as possible. A good governance system disarms this by reducing conflict of interest.
I wish us all luck and hope for the best for Steem.
Cheers
Dear @lordnigel
Appreciate your comment.
Intersting point of view. The problem is that PRICE of token should not be measurement of success of any social media platform (Steemit in this case).
Why would anyone believe that current powerful stakeholders will change their upvoting behaviours?
Proposed system can only work if so called Whales would actually start delegating their Steem Power to quality curators. That would indeed allow those curators to be rewarded for their work and benefit entire platoform.
I'm simply afraid, that this will not happen. That at the end most whales will continue auto-upvoting publications of very few people, with their powerful votes and without putting any effort they will start earning x2 more than they did so far.
It surely would encourage them to slow down with powering down, which in effect would most likely bring up the price of STEEM. But that is the only positive outcome. And what would happen year from now, when those "whales" would start dumping this easily earned STEEM?
I wonder if you would agree with me on this one.
Yours
Piotr
Hi Piotr
I do agree with you - mostly
I'm trying to stay a bit positive - - In all of this we must recognize there are a number of good whales, Steemians & witnesses who are trying to do something to help Steem - allot of hours have gone into 'thinking this up' with good intentions. Effectively consulting with large groups of varied stake holders is a tough job really, most organisation's just chat to the 'key mover and shakers' hence it comes out in the wash bad.
I don't want to be too critical as many people do other good things for STeem as well, many are technical engineers or entrepreneurs who are very good at what they do.....just not good at creating a proper governance model though I'm afraid.
The thing is i just don't see any one who has cracked the governance nut here...and HF21 doesn't seem close to me, but I am noticing some changes I like.
Cool to see more interaction in posts like this (it's some consultation at least).
Starting to recognise and call out their own conflicts of interest (creating more transparent environment in a hope to build trust) - this is a very positive step. With enough good whales and self reflection there is some hope for STeem yet (but it will come from a governance system that reduces the conflict of interest and ability to influence the benefits)
Maybe HF21 will be the one which makes them see all the best intent in the world cannot prevents humans scheming for themselves - conflict of interest....tweaking technical things and putting in down-votes (which I am firmly against) etc isn't going to do it in my book, but its not just about me - you never know with a few other influences it might come out in the wash brighter.
...As I said they will upvote whom they think are good content creators. the people they deem good. I didn't say how they might make that decision (yes it's likely they will decide to make it themselves or alias accounts etc - whatever ensures they make the max buck).
The problem I have is I can't for the life of me find a perfect solution when I search my mind, so it's hard - - I have two key ideas, each has issues, but perhaps combined could produce a new source of governance. But what is being created here has never been done before - Very hard, especially now it's not greenfields.
Cheers
@Lordnigel
Hi @gandhibaba I know that this post from @crypto.piort when I talk about steem I really don't really understand it and if I mention it from myself it is like I am a creator of this platform and I certainly have a small Sp have a big Sp and if it's a 50/50 reward distribution, maybe if I can only surrender and maybe my content is not too interesting or how, and why I still survive here even though sometimes I only get a little reward I think it's because of my enthusiasm still burning about this platform😄
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I do not so much mind the 50/50 thing, that makes sense to me. It the liner curve change that bothers me. This will make it much harder for a new person to earn money as they will have to first overcome this negative cure before they can start to earn. This to me seems like it will hurt the most.
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Dear @jacuzzi
Very true. That has been bothering me for quite a while.
Personally, I also believe that our vote should have some maximum value. That would force powerful whales to spread their upvotes.
Yours
Piotr
Hey @crypto.piotr thank you for your memo I appreciate it!
First of all, thank you for directing this topic to me. It is completly new to me. I was reading the article and some comments to get a broad overview.
From my perspective, you demotivate authors because they get paid less and incentivize whales which already have a lot of money.
The business model changes more to pay to win strategy, which is sad in my opinion. People who have more -> get more and people that are trying to start from the bottom without investments have it even harder.
On the other hand, it is nice because you can now passively generate income with a certain amount of Steem. Meaning that you invest some money and get a decent return for just autovoting.
That would also mean that the interaction and the really "active" user will decrease. But in the end we only see the results when it happened. My first gut feeling is not that good, but humans are habit people. They are afraid of change :P
I am curious about the future :)
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Hi @hobo.media
How does it actually work? How can anyone receive Hobo tokens without having their wallet registered? Are Hobo tokens connected somehow with Steemit usernames?
Is there actually any way to check out amount of tokens anyone is holding?
Yours
Piotr
Hi @crypto.piotr, yes you can find all your tokens at https://steem-engine.com.
If you sign in there you can find your tokens. They can also be sold for STEEM if a person does not wish to keep their tokens.
The tokens are sent to your account. So, you have tokens. You are the 9th richest HBO whale! :)
I think I might say thank you :)
Dear @mcnestler
Thx for your comment. I'm glad to know that you found my publication valuable.
It's clear to me that we're having very similar view on that particular issue. And we're not being heard :(
Very true. But what would be a difference between STEEM and any masternode which would be giving dividents for just holding the coin. It doesnt create any value. Authors do.
I'm afraid that STEEM will turn into ponzi scheme, because right now it will encourage this kind of business model. And will encourage people who make money that way.
Yours
Piotr
Time versus Investment
I have read most of the comments in this post, and there are good points and to be fair some who may have lost their tin foil hats.
Regardless we are all entitled to our free speech, an we should use it but we also use our votes for witnesses.
I believe content creators should have a fair crack at rewards but also curators should have a decent return for their investment.
What a lot of people are saying is that creators are doing all the hard work, and to some extent this is true but this is time spent without any risk of financial investment, people who vest their SP are actually paying to reward content on the platform and hoping the investment will bring a steady profit. I am all for a 60/40 split as I believe this will lead to people less likely to delegate to bots and claim the curation for themselves and this should lend more value to steem bringing in investors and driving the price higher which in turn will lead to higher payouts for all users.
With the regards to self upvote and circle jerking, this can not be stopped completely as it is the human condition for self service, but we do need to realise that without some kind of advertisement content can be easily missed, this is just the same big brands advertising and not just using word of mouth or hoping someone falls over their product.
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Amazing comment @monsterjamgold
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
I believe so too. Even in regular companies investors need to enjoy some ROI. However providing investors with 50% rewards is insane. It doesn't create value. Authors do. And authors are being "spit in the face" with HF21.
Very true.
Personally, I also believe that our vote should have some maximum value. That would force powerful whales to spread their upvotes.
Yours
Piotr
50% curation reward is the best solution. It will increase hodlers on steem and surely impact on steem price. Another benefit is people find posts by self and upvote it. So it is also help new content creator to get good amount of upvotes. many people leave steemit because of steem current price and less upvotes on good posts. So these two problems will be solved by this 50% curation reward system.. ♥
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Dear @sameernawab
Thank you for sharing your opinion. Even if we're having different view on some of those points. I appreciate your time.
I agree on this one. PRICE of steem will surely increase. But PRICE of steem is not what create value of this blockchain. Authors and content creators are.
Proposed system can only work if so called Whales would actually start delegating their Steem Power to quality curators. That would indeed allow those curators to be rewarded for their work and benefit entire platoform.
I'm simply afraid, that this will not happen. That at the end most whales will continue auto-upvoting publications of very few people, with their powerful votes and without putting any effort they will start earning x2 more than they did so far.
It surely would encourage them to slow down with powering down, which in effect would most likely bring up the price of STEEM. But that is the only positive outcome. And what would happen year from now, when those "whales" would start dumping this easily earned STEEM?
I wonder if you would agree with me on this one.
Yours
Piotr
Bid bot operators can start accepting lower bids to offset the loss of author rewards. They can easily afford it because thanks to 50/50 they'll earn more in curation rewards. @ocdb is still the best game in town as delegators get 90% of the bid and authors get the rest. There is no middle man taking a cut. Additionally, you have to be whitelisted to use the bot and if you use it on worthless posts, you can get kicked off the whitelist. The smallest possible of evils, in my opinion.
Dear @markkujantunen
You nailed it. Some people think that bidbots will die. But all have to be done is simple: change algorythm behind those bots and play around with numbers. And you will make them profitable again + they will grow twice as fast.
Most STEEM will end up in hands of very few. That's the problem of HF21. Redistribution will sucks.
Piotr
We can't know that. I don't know either, but I'm guessing that not much will change.
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Important discussion. now following and resteemed to spread the impact of this post.
I'll reflect on this and get back to you. But huge food for thought...
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@gandhibaba, When change arrives then many old patterns will going to change for sure. In a way it will hit bid bot users to some extent.
When power is shared equally then Ecosystem becomes more strong because worth is equal. No Product (Blog Post or Content) then no consumer, No Consumer but Product exists then there is no value. So definitely we will going to see the Transfer Of Value. Stay blessed.
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Thank you so much for this kind gesture.
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I think the whales have more than enough power I don't have a problem with the way it is. It will also give more power to delegates and investors that might not even use steem
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Great were and what can I do with them?
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You can find your tokens at steem-engine.com or in the Keychain wallet, a browser extension wallet similar to Ethereum's Metamask.
These tokens will be used as a utility token in order to receive support from the upcoming HoboDAO.
Can I also find my hobo tokens on steem-engine.com? (I never used that yet).
Yours
Piotr
Hello @crypto.piotr, yes, you absolutely can find them there at steem-engine.com. I will be creating a post today that will educate the community on how to view and transfer their tokens.
You will be able to learn where to go and how to download the Keychain wallet, an opensource browser extension similar to Ethereum's Metamask. (Keychain is more secure than using Steemconnect!)
I will also teach the community how to view their tokens, transfer their tokens, and also how to buy and sell their tokens on the Steem Engine market.
If you would like a simple explanation of why your Hobo tokens are worth keeping, please check out this recent post from Hobo Media: How Will The HoboDAO work?
If you need any more questions answered feel free to let me know, I am happy to respond to any inquiries and feedback.
Been a little busy, the educational guide on using Steem Engine will be out soon. :)
Good to know thanks I will check them out
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Smoke.io also have the 50/50 model and to be honest it is okay. At first I was like what you won't be able to earn crytpos that way but guess what you can, and I found I earn more cryptos with the 50/50 payout than I do with a 75/25 payout. SO I highly suggest going with the flow and waiting and seeing, you all might find out that you are actually making more with a 50/50 payout. The people this will effect in a negative way will be the Whales and Dolphins, but not much.
Thanks for your thoughts. It's very well received. This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
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Thanks a lot. I appreciate your kind gesture.
Dear @tecnosgirl
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your opinion with us.
Yours
Piotr
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Hi
I got to know about this post through @crypto.piotr and I am glad that he shared this post with me.
Talking about HF21 and the change in payout structure to 50/50 I am not in favour of it. I am not much aware about technical things but from the author point of view I know much it takes to create a content but for curator it is not. If as a curator I can get the same kind of reward which author gets then I would prefer to be a curator rather author.
This is going to disappoint content authors and i think steemit might face reduction is good content. This will surely increase the number of curators but what about the content? Content has to be in place for curators.
Otherwise I dont think steemit team is going to take feedbacks and they will do whatever they want to do.
Thanks for writing about this topic.
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Amazing comment @alokkumar121
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
It's clear to me that we're having very similar view on that particular issue.
You nailed it. Especially knowing that as curator you would be able to simply delegate your SP to bidbots (which bidbots will be earning now x2 so rewards for those delegations will also grow).
ps.
Proposed system can only work if so called Whales would actually start delegating their Steem Power to quality curators. That would indeed allow those curators to be rewarded for their work and benefit entire platoform.
I'm simply afraid, that this will not happen. That at the end most whales will continue auto-upvoting publications of very few people, with their powerful votes and without putting any effort they will start earning x2 more than they did so far.
It surely would encourage them to slow down with powering down, which in effect would most likely bring up the price of STEEM. But that is the only positive outcome. And what would happen year from now, when those "whales" would start dumping this easily earned STEEM?
I wonder if you would agree with me on this one.
Yours
Piotr
Greetings @gandhibaba came here from a friend (@crypto.piotr), which as always thank you for sending me interesting articles, and this article in particular, which is very interesting and at the same time very alarming.
Seeing that none of this is new to say the least, it has been seen how the whales do and discard at will, and this decision does nothing but give a boost to their actions, like saying here I am with you ... ( I apologize if someone is offended, it was not my intention but it is my point of view).
With changing the type of reward in this way I think many will be those who seek other ways (so that their posts are properly monetized) as in itself according to the post few are the people who make a quality post, that invest time and effort, against all odds (as they would say here) come someone and simply take all the credit (talking about money) or almost anything else because your vote is huge and with just take half or more of what you do (and more when the author's vote may be insignificant).
I think there are ways to evade a bit this but I do not know if it's the right one, or how profitable it is, and that is to start using 100% SteemPower or Steem posts, of course I remember my posts (I do not know if so for all) under that premise did not give or did not reflect a profit as well as when using the traditional system, I guess because the value of the coins is different and that they give priority to SP over the Steem.
But well, there is a lot to see and a long way to go from this, both with the bots (which I think now get more strength) and with the whales and the autovotes, but we will see how everything evolves and the damage is the minimum possible.
For now I have nothing more to say, but thank you for reaching this part of my comment, and wish you a happy Sunday and a great start to the week, (and if in your country like mine is celebrated on the day of father, and if you are my father my happiness, if you have your father alive as I give him a big hug that even if it seems little will mean a lot to you, likewise if he is deceased and you are a believer he prays he will thank you in the same way ;) ). God bless you
Amazing comment @jjqf
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I surely appreciate your time.
God bless you too
Yours
Piotr
Thanks @crypto.piotr, have a nice sunday and a great start to the week, regards
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Hopefully this will bring more interest and interaction between the authors and the voters.
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Hopefully :)
I just would like to take your attention on Alexa rating of Steemit:
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com
In this time we are slowly growing up again after fall down on last year october when HF20 break into our life, do we want another collapse? I think this time will be definitive....
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Dear @loro68
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your opinion with us.
It's clear to me that we're having very similar view on that particular issue.
Oh wait. You may see things even in darker colours than I do ...
Yours
Piotr
Hi @gandhibaba,
@crypto.piotr invited me to this post.
Here is my declaration about reward change.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@bidesign/shitpost-is-a-shitpost
#no5050
Thx for sharing link to this publication with us @bidesign
It's a bit to old to upvote but I will read it right before bedtime and I will gladly learn what's your view on HF21.
Yours
Piotr
👍🙏🙋🏻♂️
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Dear @gandhibaba, i got on your post because @crypto.piotr invited me to watch the post and i think this time steemit will make such crash that coin value will be worth of usd cents.
I was thinking HF20 was the worse, but on this trolls social network everything can be done worse.
Why i should pay 50% to curator?
What he will do more than nothing are doing right now?
@magicdice scammed a lot of people in wonderful steem blockchain and no one witness or curator try to do something to stop robbers, because basically they are robbers and this modification it confirm it!!!
Dear @intellihandling
I realized just now that I never actually thanked you for your amazing comment. I appreciate your time :)
Have a great monday.
Piotr
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I’ve got mixed feelings about the coming fork. I can potentially see your perspective however I don’t entirely see this as a great thing. Sure we need investors to come in but do we need to cut the reward for content creators by 25% to do that? I say absolutely not. I can understand making it maybe 65/35 but right down to 50/50 is an incredibly short sighted move that disincentives content creators from coming here.
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Dear @cmplxty
I only just realized that I never thanked you for your comment. Appreciate it.
Yours
Piotr
Greetings brother I’ve found your page because @crypto.piotr invited me. I have read through many of the comments - I’m not a techie nor am I yet a huge content creator. Here’s my two cents - looking at it from the person who sits down and puts in painstaking work to make vids or write blogs it seems unfair. From the perspective of the big investors- why invest if I am making little to nothing ?
The creator hopes to earn and more votes from the big investors will lead to earnings surely. After reading @grandhibaba post I think it might actually work well for everyone. People will resist change ; it’s how we are. For now we can only speculate but I like this balanced view. Let’s keep calm and steem on.
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As I see it only one thing will happen in future and that is that authors will end up with nothing/earn nothing. That is the way it will go.
HF20 did not stop any scam.
HF21 will not stop any scam nor bots either.
The investors did invest in bots and I am not so sure they (ever) invest(ed) in the community.
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It’s pointless to take one piece of the equation and dissect it like this. This entire premise comes down to the downvotes, ideally they’d be able to be delegated this probably won’t make it into this HF21 which frankly is stupid as most everyone agrees that’s a necessity.
If large accounts don’t fully utilize their downvotes this EIP will flop and essentially destroy any hopes of saving this wholly broken platform.
Currently there is zero incentive to keep anyone from self voting the curve,50/50, and downvotes must all work in conjunction to quell this. It’s not up to us little people, we are basically powerless. And while agree large stakeholders should dictate what direction their investment goes it should be noted that this is a pay to play game and blogging is still its best game.
Will whales and orcas flag the shit out of traf, chbconartist, Bernie, and all the bad actors and change their own behaviors by not self voting and manually curating is the only question you should be asking.
It’s not about piddly shit rewards of your 3 dollar post, that’s only a slice of this pie. Until we see it go down and give it time to let the dust settle there’s no point in debating it.
It will get uglier than it is first it’s not going to be an overnight change nor is it the silver bullet. Clearly nobody outside of steem gives a damn, I think it’s better to not sell any potential future users the same lie most users here bought. That is that you can get paid to do what you do on social media and if you’re a great blogger you will go far. Bullshit ! It’s pay to play and it takes money to make money on earth. That being said over 8 months I’ve gone from 15 sp to 450 how ? A whale, all the upvotes from all the small accounts haven’t really done much, but that’s relative, 450 sp if powered down isn’t life changing or a career either.
Steem is different things to different people but again I can’t stress enough that it’s a game and in this game the winners have stake the losers don’t.
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Dear @skramatters
I realized just now that I never actually thanked you for your amazing comment. I appreciate your time :)
ps. you don't like chbconartist? Would you consider him "bad actor"? I wonder why. Isn't he creating content that actually have some value for many people out there?
Have a great monday.
Piotr
Thanks man,
I’m not a fan of his no, I’m sure some find his stuff valuable, for me it’s forced and too focused on being agreeable. Any used bookstore is full of this self help stuff, I feel he has no genuine intent to do much of anything but have the most visibility and siphon off as much rewards as possible.
To each their own though, I suppose I’ve had more exposure than many to the whole online psychology crap he spews forth. I’ve never seen him have a meaningful dialogue and feel certain he is just bastardizing deepak chopra and that Ilk of “I’m only here to help” people.
That’s cool though I like my content to have a bit more personality and edge. There’s enough of fluffy vanilla cupcake with a cherry 🍒 on top content on chain. I can respect the hustle but how long can this platform support his incessant feel good regurgitations ?
Have a good week ! Would love to hear Your your thoughts on palnet ? And if you plan on changing anything post EIP if it goes through.
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Awesome thx @hobo.media ! I'd forgotten I made this comment...
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By the way @gandhibaba, what's with the name? I am from a country where that name has a lot of respect. So curious.. 😊 😊
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Hi @oivas
I would also like to know. So c'mon @gandhibaba. Could you reply to Oivas question? :)
Gracias @crypto.piotr! estoy de acuerdo con usted, mi crecimiento se hará más lento, con mis publicaciones y con mis votos también, ya que soy una cuenta pequeña, los que saldrán beneficiados son los grandes inversores, los abusos no se acabaran, una vez más gracias por la donación, un abrazo..
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Hola @hobo.media! ¿Que se puede hacer con esos tokens? un abrazo.
Congratulations @gandhibaba!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:
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