Vote selling services have 14 days to stop accepting and refund requests for votes purchases on posts older than 3.5 days (84 hours) otherwise @GrumpyCat will begin randomly flagging the best posts that receive significant up-votes from the following accounts:
@Upme
@Appreciator
@Postpromoter
@Rocky1
@Jerrybanfield
Powered by @Freedom
@Buildawhale
@Pushup
@Allaz
@Levitation
@Aksdwi
Powered by @Blocktrades
@Upmyvote
@Randowhale (Thanks to @Berniesanders)
Powered by @Engagement
After 30 days this new "responsible vote selling" policy should be enforced directly by delegators @Blocktrades @Freedom and @Engagement.
Otherwise any posts up-voted using their delegation is at risk of being flagged for maximum effect.
Vote selling services that become fully compliant before the deadline are encouraged to proudly showcase their GrupyCompliant badge on their posts to reassure their customers.
There is no responsible way to sell votes on a platform where the selling of votes hurts the opportunity for content to get rewarded fairly. With whales selling their voting power, there is far less reason for any to vote on a great post simply because it is great.
What are curation rewards for again?
Oh yes. So until vote-buying is no longer a part of Steemit, neither should curation rewards be. These cunts are literally receiving rewards, which were put in place to encourage fair voting, for SELLING VOTING POWER.
If all of you just stopped fucking buying votes, within a week the whales would have two choices. Start voting fairly again to get their curation rewards, or watch as everyone else's voting power increases significantly because they haven't been voting.
That aside; even if what you proposed was in any way "responsible," why would you expect anyone to listen to you?
Can you explain what the fuck this is about?
Your upvotes on this post, and in the comments, would suggest to me that you're as much of a greedy abuser of the system as the villains you are trying to paint for us.
But I suppose I am once again wasting my time here. Because you will still be worshiped by the idiots you are impoverishing, because you have a good upvote.. and who gives a fuck about dignity when you can get a decent upvote, right?
You are completely right. I think they should be banned, i´m new in Steemit, but I think than the selling of votes fuck this up totally, the staff should evaluate the posts and users, then ban anyone who tries to sell or buy votes...
so you want a small group of people to have the exclusive right to decide whats right and whats wrong, whats valuable and what is worthless?i think the control you are shouting for goes against the very idea of freedom!
that is not what i read? I think it means that votes come from readers and not bots doing it for you. And that would be fantastic only people do not read, or read to little. And upvoting you an do like 10 times a day until your power is finished. I am guilty I did pay to get post upvoted, and I also abused the system for voting my self up, like many. We do not know how long steem will work so it is the case to make it worth in a short time therefor the resteem and upvotes are handy, wished it was different.
the staff should evaluate the posts and users, then ban anyone who tries to sell or buy votes...
thats what it says
as to the votes to to come from users i agree
i think voting bots should be banned but im new to steemit so there might be aspects i dont fully get yet.
Self upvote is another one. That should not even be possible. It's vain on normal platforms. But here is't a Problem.
If you are dolphin and above you can just make money by up-voting your own posts.
It takes away from any other curators if your posting is not totally worthless to begin with. And it takes away from everybody as there is only that many steem dollar generated each day.
Self upvote should be banned.
What's wrong with making a little extra money?
What is worse than self-upvote? someone with multiple accounts voting for own lame posts everyday.
Yes, we all know one of those. You only have to look at:
https://steemit.com/trending/cryptocurrency
Quite the opposite: We want more people to decide whats valuable and what is worthless. And we want that decision to be done on merit of the article.
And if you want to promote: There is a fat promote button underneath your postings.
The more money @haejin makes, the more butthurt @berniesanders gets!
Make sure you upvote @haejin so that communist snowflake @berniesanders gets even more major butthurt!👌
Communist loser @berniesanders raped his cucumber so hard that it got stuck up inside her anus! The butthurt was so severe, she resorted to doctoring images, thereby committing fraud, in orded to attack and slander @haejin!
Proof is shown below:
https://steemit.com/steem/@pawsdog/the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders#@ozmaga/re-libertyteeth-re-pawsdog-the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders-20171226t004433502z
..
I'm new to steemit as wel I tought you get votes when you write interesting things or share your story blog or whatever. (would not be bad tough actually having steem to get some savings going)
That's the idea. However there seem to be a few flaws in the system. Namely: self upvotes and selling votes. Both distort and undermine the fundamentally merit based system.
Indeed. When I first heard of vote selling I immediately became suspicious. There is something fishy, if not outright evil going on. And selling (and buying) votes is certainly at the heart of it.
The more money @haejin makes, the more butthurt @berniesanders gets!
Make sure you upvote @haejin so that communist snowflake @berniesanders gets even more major butthurt!👌
Communist loser @berniesanders raped his cucumber so hard that it got stuck up inside her anus! The butthurt was so severe, she resorted to doctoring images, thereby committing fraud, in orded to attack and slander @haejin!
Proof is shown below:
https://steemit.com/steem/@pawsdog/the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders#@ozmaga/re-libertyteeth-re-pawsdog-the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders-20171226t004433502z
Selling votes seems pretty cut and dry damaging to the platform, but its literally the only way for the majority of users to make any sort of progress. The unfortunate truth is, it is entirely up to the whales to determine how this whole thing is going to work. They are the ones who have the influence to incentivize behavior in any meaningful way. To ask people not to buy upvotes is never going to work. Why? Because you're asking them to make a sacrifice for the greater good of something that they aren't invested in. I'm not saying it's right, but why would someone with .5 STEEM care at all about the value of STEEM? It is leagues more beneficial for them to abuse the system to gain some traction than self-sacrifice to do the right thing when everyone else is benefitting from doing the wrong thing. It's an issue of incentives. The people who set the incentives are incentivized to set the incentives in such a way that it bleeds the platform dry.
I would need you to define what you mean by progress in this context. If you mean SP, then one could simply convert their SBD's into SP, or sell it on the market and then buy STEEM to power up with. If you mean reputation score, then I would ask you; if all that reputation score means is how many times someone has paid to have their own work upvoted, does it really seem important enough to be measuring your progress on Steemit against?
I can empathize with your position. I truly can. But there are other ways of measuring progress, and other ways of acquiring it. There is the option to the "play the game," as I like to call it. You can go and read the work of others in your "niche" and leave insightful comments. Make "friends" and then you can all support one another as your accounts grow together. You can head over to discord and make yourself known in the chatrooms and give people a reason to end up on your blog upvoting your posts. This will certainly help one progress on Steemit, supposing they are not so unlikeable that it backfires.
Another possibility is to sweat for it. I have noticed it is getting more difficult for newcomers, and the vote-selling is largely responsible for that. But, if you can put in a graft and get out several quality posts a day, and retain that motivation to push on even during times when you're not getting what you feel you deserve, it will pay off in the end. I have seen the prolific ones succeed on here, just as I have witnessed this elsewhere.
Those options are there are right now, but I can assure you that if you all continue to buy votes, they will not be for much longer.
I agree. I would like to believe that if they understood that their purchasing of votes was reversing the distribution of STEEM on the network and recentralizing the power in the hands of a few(who are obviously smart enough to know that they're doing this to you all and therefore unworthy of such power) that they would simply desist with the vote-buying. Unfortunately, however, I am no longer naive enough to believe this. I think the only chance there is to reverse the damage this is doing is to convince the sellers to close up shop. There is far less of them than there is buyers to convince. But, for all my ideas, I've none on how to convince a greedy bastard to let go of a cash cow.
I had just considered while finishing up that sentence that the possibility of a whale account, which was comprised of delegations from many, many dolphins and minnows, which sold votes, and which reinvested its liquidity and curation rewards into further helping to distribute STEEM across the network, could potentially work.
But.. no. This here is exactly the problem. We can't even be thinking of this as acceptable. Since when are rewards--the word the Steemit developers chose to use, something that you can purchase? I still think Steemit has a chance, but we need to realise we are looking at the evolution of money in a microcosm. We have seen where the greed-based mindset takes an economy. I think we ought not to walk blindly down a path we already walked once, and hated. That's why we came here, wasn't it?
If these people think the only way to get anything out of Steemit is to BUY their fucking trophies and put them on display, How in the actual fuck did I manage to earn this much money? I didn't BUY this MONEY!!!!
They want participation awards to make themselves feel better. I laugh hard at that and I don't believe in that mentality.
They buy their trophies. Morons. They put their trophies on display! BEST BOWLER EVER!! but you know what... some day someone might want to see them bowl!
Do people not know what WORKING is anymore!!
Anyway... rant over. How's it going? Happy new year.
Perhaps it is that the word "rewards" was used instead of income. I believe this word was chosen intentionally, for gamification purposes, but it seems to have backfired and left everyone expecting something for free.
I'm doing well thank you. Spending the day with family I haven't seen in some time, so couldn't really ask for much more.
I hope you're doing well too, and happy new year indeed.
I've been rewarded in the past, on the job, when they gave me a raise. I had to work for that reward too.
It's this generation of participation awards and entitlement. This is quite the social experiment. Look at what we've discovered.
I'm truly sick of the entitlement culture, its destroying everything, there are less and less people able to create something of worth and out of that small percentage less and less could actually bother as 60 % of the reward will be taken and given to lazy non productive sheep who 100 years ago wouldnt even live past their 25 birthday due to natural selection and lack of welfare.
Did you just join? I think if you have been well established in the early days you had a much better shot of being successful than most. I'm definitely not saying you don't deserve to be rewarded for joining early. You do. It's very hard these days to blog your way to success, especially in a sea of shitposts, and that's not even the point. The point is not just that it isn't easy to do, it's that you don't even have to do it.
People don't want participation awards, they want money, and they can make it right now. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying. People have an opportunity to make money by shitposting, we can all plea with them not to shitpost for the good of the platform, but they don't care about the platform succeeding, not until they have significant SP on the line. As long as people can easily make money by shitposting they will. Working hard is a great aspiration, and when you have to work hard to earn something, it's important to be able to work hard. When you don't have to work hard to get something, there are going to be people who don't work.
Hopefully I'm being overly pessimistic here, I dunno.
Hope you have a happy new year as well.
I joined, when I joined. Started with nothing, didn't know anyone, it was the same place, but without people selling votes. So imagine this for a second. That made it HARDER.
Why does it have to be easy? Since when is life easy? What's wrong with a challenge? I grabbed this thing by the balls! I climbed this mountain! I got to the top! I looked! There was another damn mountain!
Kept going.
Shit post this, shit post that. I don't post shit posts. I've had a few flops. I just kept on going. I don't care about shit posts. They don't bother me. They are not my competition. They are shit posts.
You're being way too pessimistic. If you scroll down to the bottom of my blog... you'll see how I struggled. For some reason you folks see us folks and want what we have. You want it NOW. You don't look to see what it took to actually have what you want.
Hard Work!
If you're here for money, but don't feel like working... you came to the wrong place.
I think we're probably just talking across from one another at this point. I'm not saying it has to be easy, I'm saying it is easy... It's easy to do it the wrong way. There is a huge amount of money to be made with bid bots. Way more than anyone just starting could make by writing quality content. You say you don't care about shit posts, but you should, because shit posts are making 10x what you're making on your legitimate content. They're robbing it from the reward pool and dragging the price of steem down with it.
It's not as simple as convincing people to grab the challenge by the horns for the sake of pride. It's literally convincing people to work hard for scrap instead of cheating to make money hand over fist. People don't much care about pride in that sense.
I don't look at you and want what you have NOW. I look at you and I see a lot of hard work to build a lot of value that people are now robbing from you.
But without people buying Steem, would steemhave any value? I think one of the cool idea that came out of steem is that you can actually get paid for your posts. Which you can spend on real world goods/services. Without someone buying steem, steem wouldn't have any physical world value.
I bought a little steam to power up but I won't to it again. Steem is currently to expensive and the return for your $ is to small.
I think that with the recent jump in Steem price new users will not make it past plankton any more.
Isn't that where the bots come in though? Return for your $ by powering up is small so people run to bots to get some views/votes for their $.
By progress I simply mean getting to "the top" having high SP. You are correct that you can just put your SBD into SP, but you still have to earn that SBD in the first place. I don't really expect to get very far here. I am a "blogger" on a platform that is 100% other bloggers. It does not have people who are passive viewers because there is nothing of value here to passive viewers. I don't mean to cast judgement on people's content here, but it isn't anything that you couldn't find on a blog or reddit. Hopefully that will change considering how much better this is for content creators.
I have been playing the game because I'm just curious to see how it goes. I have slowly built up to 100 followers, probably only a few of which are interested in my content. They all just want to trade upvotes. That's okay, but it's not a real content provider-content consumer relationship. Many of the whales get comments and upvotes because people are praying they can get "blessed" with an upvote, not because they genuinely want to consume the content. If a whale moved to a non-rewards platform, their viewership from Steemit would likely plummet.
I agree with you that vote buying will kill Steem, and I agree that the only option is to target the sellers. They are handing out free money on a street corner. To try to convince people to not take the money and go get a job instead is just foolish. It's not in line with human nature. People would rather get $50 out of Steem today with bid bots than work hard over the next few months and get $500. You cannot plea with them not to take the money by pointing out the damage they cause, because they have nothing invested in the platform. If they don't use bid bots, they'll allow some percentage of people to still have a healthy platform to make the $500, but as a result, most will likely not ever even get their $50.
It is for this reason that I don't plan to invest long term here. I put in money, I'm really not liking what I'm seeing right now, so I'm taking it out. I plan on sticking around and commenting. Being a viewer, since I think that's what Steemit needs most, but the way this whole thing is going gives people every reason to suck it dry, and no reasons to invest into it properly.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
The same conclusion I came today as well. I might not down power right away but I certainly won't put any more money in. And I also will stop shilling on other platforms. I only shill what I truly believe in.
I like that response of yours. There really is no need to buy a vote. If a person is willing to buy a vote, then they are willing to sell their vote. That is not and never has been an acceptable behavior, at least not an acceptable behavior to me I should clarify. To each their own I guess.
I fear that Steemit reaches the point where new user have no chance to make it past plankton any more.
For example you suggest: “Buy STEEM to power up with.” Not an option any more. One year ago you could buy yourself up to be a Minnow for ≈$350. But with Steem and Steam-Power currently at $5,88 that would need ≈$12'000 to become Minnow.
That's simply not true. We can make progress without bid bots but it just takes more effort to create something of value. It doesn't necessarily mean your post will get the rewards it probably deserved compared to the volumes of crap being self-voted and bid botted to trending but at least you will have one the thing these shitposters lack. Integrity and sense of a job well done.
Sure, those things aren't going to pay the bills but, if we really want this platform to change for the better, we have to start with ourselves. I've taken a difficult stance towards bid bots and self voting. Something just feels kind of messed about the whole system. I think if we want the world to look at Steem as a legit platform, we need to get away from this vote selling because tbh those things scream Ponzi scheme.
We should all have an equal voice with fair opportunity for rewards. What we have done by allowing bid bots is allow the sweat equity principle to go to the wayside. We've basically said forget about working hard to create quality content. If you don't have $$$ to use a bid bot or self vote (injecting perception of value into your content using stake), your voice isn't as important than those that do. I cannot support such a thing.
I have to disagree with your first paragraph: The self-voters and vote-buyers take so much out of the system that there not enough left for honest users.
I see one posting, with a promised $0.0x reward, not paying out after the other. On payout day it drops from $0.0x to $0.00. I don't care about the penny. It's the lack of appreciation what hurts.
And it's the other way around as well: if I upvote then other person won't even get a single penny either. I even bought some steem to power up so my votes count. But with Steem at $5 I can't really buy enough steem to make a difference. The only thing that happened: I lost my new user delegation.
The combination of bit bots, self vote and hight steem price endanger the platform.
@krischik
I agree. That's why I opt out but keep posting.
You are absolutely right. This is why selling votes should be punished. A temporary ban might be a way. But I don't know if the blockchain has actually provisions for bans at all.
I agree. 1 account flagging people won't be changing anything. Which it shouldn't anyways.
When a whale votes everybody elses vote has some payout taken away.
When a whale delegates the weight of everybodys sp drops.
If only one vote is cast all the reward pool goes to that one
vote.
If the top wasnt sucking it all up we could easily see minnow rewards double.
Its just a fact in the math.
And if you are plankton you don't get any rewards at all any more. Something needs to be done.
Something was done, and it led to this.
It is hard to get established, but that is true in any business.
Just keep putting out your content and your audience will find you.
Nice and good posts ..more of it..
Your upvotes on this post, and in the comments, would suggest to me that you're as much of a greedy abuser of the system as the villains you are trying to paint for us.
hahaha.. what the hell is happening in here? first doge now cat!! whats next? its just insane :)
It is a shame to find out that this kind of activity is happening on Steemit. I thought that I was becoming involved with a group that was about the manipulation that i have seen on Reddit and others.
I know that there is always going to be a way to work the system, but this is just unfair and buries the new new guys before they can get started.
With that being said , I think the 7 day reward window is to short for individuals that want to build long term relevant materials. What about the fact that the material could be found later and keep finding new audience members. What if the information is seasonal and comes back around to relevance each year?
These encourages short windowed articles that are thin in content.
that is so true and could't be said better
Actually, it's not true. Selling votes is the equivalent of purchasing advertising space on a billboard, racing jersey, etc... Those with valuable content, but not enough steem power, it is the only way to get noticed quickly. In Steem, users with the most steem power, followers and votes, trend to the top. The rich just get richer and the poor stay poor.
Voting bots offer the ability for users with quality content to remain competitive with others that are hoarding all the voting influence. Voting bots actually make things fair for new steemians. It's economics.
www.htdthis.blogspot.com
The more money @haejin makes, the more butthurt @berniesanders gets!
Make sure you upvote @haejin so that communist snowflake @berniesanders gets even more major butthurt!👌
Communist loser @berniesanders raped his cucumber so hard that it got stuck up inside her anus! The butthurt was so severe, she resorted to doctoring images, thereby committing fraud, in orded to attack and slander @haejin!
Proof is shown below:
https://steemit.com/steem/@pawsdog/the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders#@ozmaga/re-libertyteeth-re-pawsdog-the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders-20171226t004433502z
Cute
So, what is that post that he linked to all about?
I have not totally figured that post out either, save that I think it was an pretty good illustration of how damaging self voting can be to the system; which may of been the point.
I can certainly see this as an effective policy depending upon how it is implemented. Do I think one account flagging can accomplish the mission if done manually? Nope.. Not a chance in hell.
People will continue to play the lotto with upvoting services as there is only so much that @grumpcat could do. If 100 users purchase votes and only 1 or 3 or 5 of those are flagged, then most users will feel as though they have a 95% chance of getting by, getting the upvote and continuing to abuse the system.
If done with a script that monitors the wallets of selected vote selling services and downvotes in response to SP transferred into those accounts then yes I could see it being effective as there would be no lotto to be played and you are guaranteed a down vote for attempting to purchase votes and not acquire them organically through good content creation.
Perhaps even have the script comment saying "You were downvote as this account is suspected of funding terrorism."
This goes back to what I have said in comments numerous times over the past few days. Why go head to head with a superior army, when you can just go after the farmers that grow the wheat to feed the army. The latter will eventually starve the vote selling services out an discourage their use. I could even see a script that randomly downvotes the followers of offending vote selling services to further motivate them out of popularity.
While some may see what @grumpycat is doing as heavy handed, its needed whereas vote selling services are not. Vote selling services are not the only way to get noticed or make any progress; tirelessly working, networking and creating quality content do the same thing, its just more work. To me it's someone finally standing up and taking an aggressive stance against the vote selling market that has established itself here.
The truth is not everyone can write, not everyone has interesting information to share, not everyone is smart. Steemit in purest form is supposed to eliminate those that cannot create competitive content and let the cream rise to the top. Vote buying services dilute the pool by allowing those with little to no talent, or those that are just lazy to dilute the content of authors that can write, put in the work and deserve to be noticed.
@pawsdog
totally makes sense to me. Vote selling is undermining the steemit idea to the max. it must be abolished.
I agree, next to go should be self exploitative self voting practices
I'm going to put that on my list of Python things to do. If I can make a working prototype, maybe there would be a few benevolent whales to fund it. I'm already working on a flag rewards project which I think you may be interested. Follow @steemflagrewards if you would like to participate. It's going to be kind of like an optional jury summons where people vote on whether a post deserved a flag and create posts which will be rewarded to the flaggers. Already making some headway pulling the data for downvoted posts in trending which is exactly what brought me here today. ;)
I like, not sure how I can help.. I"m a long way from a benevolent whale status.. lo.. but I have brains and time to contribute..
That'll help. I'll try to get the function to select 3 or random followers of @steemflagrewards for the first "jury summons" if you will.
I want to make it so there is representation from different levels of Steem Power to help prevent the process from being skewed in favor of those that hold the most power. I think this has some potential but I just need to ensure it isn't used to take sides in this pissing contest of flags that's currently going on.
hey @grumpycat I'm giving away a free cat in support of what your doing https://steemit.com/free/@safetony/free-crypto-kitty-giveaway
The more money @haejin makes, the more butthurt @berniesanders gets!
Make sure you upvote @haejin so that communist snowflake @berniesanders gets even more major butthurt!👌
Communist loser @berniesanders raped his cucumber so hard that it got stuck up inside her anus! The butthurt was so severe, she resorted to doctoring images, thereby committing fraud, in orded to attack and slander @haejin!
Proof is shown below:
https://steemit.com/steem/@pawsdog/the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders#@ozmaga/re-libertyteeth-re-pawsdog-the-curious-case-of-the-errant-comma-haejin-berniesanders-20171226t004433502z
Ruff ruff
Very likely.
What you do is not cool and I could debate these points to the end of the moon to prove my case.
This is something I definitely support. But I think the bigger problem is the selling regardless of quality. Spam plagiarism and all kinds of shitposts are getting to the trending page.
Omg...I live in a fictional world. If the rules say to write the original quality text, then I try and do so. And it turns out tt spam articles in the top and the less effort the more popular. Nevertheless, I would be ashamed to copy someone's work. But this is upon conscience of everyone.
Too upset now. Will go to make a coffee and calm down...
I'll join you for coffee. Buying upvotes, IMO, is just buying visibility. People who already have a lot of SP and/or powerful friends can enjoy that without voting bots. Obviously, rising to the top has little to do with quality most of the time and a lot to do with the SP one can command either through buying, having, or working with others.
I will say most bots are pretty crappy and getting crappier so far as the value they give for payments anyway. I hope everybody who wants to buy votes knows how to use this Steem bot tracker: http://s3.amazonaws.com/yabapmatt/bottracker/bottracker.html
hi.... Iam beginner in steemet follow me @rijal10 i want to share many things here and please follow me! please participate
upbutt me i upbutt you pleez
I get an upbutt you get an upbutt. We all get a upbutt.
Butted
Remove all your spam or ill downvote them so I do not have to see this crap everywhere.
@nicnas i will assume you are referring to rijal10 and usmanjutt. as i am saying the same thing as you...but in a lighthearted package.
:)
Thats the main reason i dislike the site. Also there is no way to block bots that spam generic shit on everyone of my posts.
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow and also like this comment
I mean...I'm not opposed to this...
At some point we need to realize that these vote-selling services are really only directing the limited daily rewards to mostly shitposts. The people offering the votes for sale are being paid regardless of the quality of content being upvoted, so they really don't have any reason to care how the pool is allocated. And the ones selling the votes powered by delegation have even less reason to care.
I say, do what you want with your downvotes. If these services and users can't overcome the effects of counter-votes, then I guess they don't have much support after all and the stake-weighted market will have spoken.
This is just a social media site anyway (and not even a good one). Sometimes we tend to take things a little too seriously when it comes to upvotes and downvotes...because money.
too bad this post is coming from someone who isnt the greatest example. A better push and implementation would be nice
He does not have the moral right to post such.
it's witnesses imho like him and other not so fuzzy types who have the cajones to give a damn about the overall well being of the platform, just my two little pesos
hi.... Iam beginner in steemet follow me @rijal10 i want to share many things here and please follow me! please participate
Spam is discouraged by the community, including comment spam.
Comment spam is currently defined by @steemcleaners as:
10 or more generic comments per day that are not in response to a question posed by the post or comment. “Thanks”, “Great Post!”, “Nice”, “Follow me”, etc
Your Reputation Could be a Tasty Snack with the Wrong Comment!
Thank You!
remove this spam and earn your followers.
True
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow
no usmanjutt, that's not how it works....
I myself is not of this idea as a whole of these vote selling, but I don't know what this @grumpycat has to do with this thing posts not older than 3.5 days? Why don't you guys make a rule of not upvoting low posts? It is really irritating to see guys posting a single pic or a quote and pay for upvotes. Why would someone even try to produce something good if they know that they can pay for an upvote.
Me myself try to produce something good, but alas coz of no upvotes, I have to pay for upvotes to get that exposure. But I guess no body even cares for you when you are not of the value to them. But yeah still I believe in working hard and will continue to do it.
I can't see the problem with paying for upvotes, it's not much different than paying for ads. You become more visible, but if people don't like your content you won't earn money on it anyway. Unless, you have a lot of steem power and powerful friends or fans (which is a bigger problem).
Lol, you gotta be an idiot to not understand what I meant by what I said.
Sorry, it would have been easier to understand if you wrote in English...
Well I guess people in Norway speak English, right?
I went to that post, it's a black and white photo challenge and he had some interesting speculations. It's not deep but I don't think he was just filling space for money. I don't understand judging it, if you don't like it why don't you just move along? I'm seriously asking why it matters to you if there is any possibility that your wrong that he is just throwing something up there to get upvotes from bots and friends. I am sincerely asking, I don't get it why you care.
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow and also like this comment
seriously people vote for money we need to change aur minds
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow and also like this comment
I really hadn't known about this concept of thought. We shouldn't be taking things too seriously.
Miaau miauu prr. great job miuaau.
thanks for upvote and resteem
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow and also like this comment
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow
Please add @randowhale to your list! Thanks!!
jajajjaj ADD a @ssbernie and the bots! the 13 bots of bernie add all pliz!! PEOPLE THIS MEN are behind of all, HAVE 13 BOTS ACOOUNTS...
I'm sure he'll take your suggestion under due advisement, while he dives into his Scrooge McDuck vault:
I've never seen a shit post worth five figures before.
Says the girl who votes primarily on her boyfriend.
What does it even matter? I've used vote purchasing services in the past and found that the reward was not worth the cost. I'd have been further ahead with the smaller reward and keeping my initial investment.
Great post and honestly strikes up great conversation. And that is one of the great things of this platform. Thank you for your post.
why are there skirmishes breaking out? It makes me sad.
The skirmishes are perhaps a consequence of steem's poor performance relative to #bitcoin and other leading cryptocurrencies. At its highs in 2016, steem was worth over 0.006 BTC. Some of the whales may finally be realizing that the value of steem is inextricably tied to the crypto community's perception of steemit as a platform. Until that perception improves via constructive changes to steemit itself, then steem will likely continue to lag the broader market.
seems like a short sighted panic over an over amplified fear. everyone on here today will eventually reach the level of a whale, it is built in the automation of the system.
I am seeing a lot of outcries and a sense of entitlement from people who have not put into the work or effort and are crying why they too can not yet be financially independent using SteemIt. Steem will grow the more people learn how to use it and the more development is done on it to replace current social media sites.
instant gratification and whining is not going to make it better, it is only going to make people dread coming here as this too gets polluted by that whiny entitled crowd.
the irony is that people seem to be paying out large sums of rewards for people to complain.
what if there is a large segment of internet users who really love GIFs? why can't they use SteemIt and profit from it, why is that considered of less value to someone who posts a long essay about the story of genesis?
I think the flagging feature is being abused by suppressors of free speech. micro transactions for micro-blogging and micro-posts. It is not a winner take all economy, it is a shared micro economy.
so I will upvote any and all comments and posts of users and things I like, and that is what makes this platform so awesome.
would you rather Instagram and other social media companies generate unshared value from all your likes and comments on their platforms?
too much slave on slave hate.
"the value of steem is inextricably tied to the crypto community's perception of steemit as a platform" Worth a follow right there
This is absolutely true and that perception will only change with growth plus a functioning system that is not engaged in constant civil war.
When did Bitcoin come out?
When did Steem come out?
what will your life look like when one steem is equal one current bitcoin?
will you be supporting grumpy cat? or better users?
the choice is yours
Bitcoin is not distinctly associated with a social media / blogging platform the way that steem is. The value of steem, in my opinion, is inextricably tied to the perception of this platform. Very few exchanges offer it for trading/investing. Accordingly, the daily trading liquidity is minuscule compared to the Top 10 cryptos. Unless it is marketed with a focus more on the benefits of the steem blockchain itself. Which may in fact be happening with the push towards SMTs.
well I think it had been the best social media experience until winner takes all mentality, I am assuming the majority of who are new, started wanting to control how the platform can move to satisfy their needs instead of realizing that this is an automatic system and we each are independent as well as dependent to make it work.
i've met some awesome people and had some great discussions on here so far, combined with the file storage capacities. This is a revolution and I am not sure why the media is not reporting on what could be the great invention to benefit mankind since the technoevolution
Well, there is a lot at stake. It's kind of a free for all here. Basically, the only way any sort of order can be implemented is if the top players use their power to strike down anything that doesn't match their vision. It ends up being mayhem because there are so many people with differing visions, but I'm glad there are people who care enough to prevent the platform from moving in directions that will make it die. It is rough to see, but it is certainly an interesting sociological phenomenon.
This just highlights the failures of decentralized anarcho-capitilism and how it leads to warring tribes and fascists imposing themselves with violence. Oh the irony.
The internet is turning into the human version of hivemind. It's fascinating to take a step back and look at the evolution from a macro-scale. The paradigm shift from losing money off the internet to making money off the internet for the casual user does indeed have high stakes.
"Basically, the only way any sort of order can be implemented is if the top players use their power to strike down anything that doesn't match their vision."
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow
Spamcomments like these have nothing to do on steemit. If you dont stop I will follow you and downvote all your future posts!
Hurry,take notes...change of plans.
this human gets it,
why can't you?
Sorry see the bright side
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow
low standards man
Though i buy upvotes, i strongly support this. There should be more and more people like @grumpycat who will flag down the junk. If we want to see steemit as the best alternative to all the other social networks, certain measures are to be taken by steemians. I am tired of buying upvotes to grow on this community. I do post original content regularly and still achieve nothing. At the end of the day, i still had to buy a upvote just to earn 0.5 sbd more. What's the use when only the rich gets awarded ? It's high time we earn with content and not by buying upvotes. Welcome @grumpycat Good concept and waiting for your execution.
I think it's more logical to promote a post sooner than later to maximize the effect. Some people might be testing the waters, promoting older posts after seeing lack of success.
Still can't understand why people voting on post 1 or more days after if the best time for this when the post is "fresh"...
I do it to let my followers in who are not online every day. This way they benefit from more curation rewards. Also, some accounts will not vote on posts that have been artificially inflated.
I see very good points here. Promoting with bid bots after 1-2 days will increase the curation rewards of those who voted prior to promotion. Let's just make sure we provide valuable content and follow the rules. @grumpycat is in action!
That's my plan😁✌🏽
Depends on who votes when.
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow and also like this comment
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow and also like this comment
STOP FUCKING SPAMING
even though this post itself has so many paid votes 😂😂😂
I hate shit this. More auto flagging bots on steemit means more problems. Steemit is confusing for new members, now they gotta learn all this stuff as well. For a ''decentralized'' platform there are alot of rules to keep track of. I also see that i am maybe to only negative comment in the post, i cant believe that an auto spamming bot account would get so much love considering how hated the rest of the auto spamming bot are. I might get flagged but whatever.
And just to finish off, this grumpycat account has made 1 post and the payout so far is $540. Wheres that money go? into the community it's ''serving'' are the owners pockets. Yeah, thought so......
Auto Flag (spam) bots = big money for owners. Dont pretend your helping others by forcing rules and filling your pockets.
I might be way off with comment and if so, im sorry but to me it looks like another spam bot.
De-centralised means the community decides the rules, not that there aren't any.
Grumpycat has a huge investment into this platform, so that will explain why these posts are high value.
Dear, my brothers will send you wonderful goat milk to wet lips of compliant cat protecting the riches of Steemers everywhere. You will be a fat cat from the milks of finest goats. Return the riches to every ones quickly.
some days I'm so freaking glad I'm lactose intolerant .....
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow to every post and also like this comment
Great one
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow to every post and also like this comment
Does spamming like this actually ever work?
hahahahh....i will also add a bowl of honey to that...
lol
Perhaps this could be implemented across the platform by simply not allowing upvotes after 72 hours?
In defense of the more reputable bot services, they appear to be the only way that newer users without sizeable follower counts can garner attention to their posts. Otherwise, their content often gets lost in the mix amidst the trending posts published by more established users.
I say this from experience after hardly ever using bots in the past and only recently employing them. I don't think bots are an ideal mechanism by which rewards should be distributed to begin with. But the platform as it is structured right now enables this system.
It is at least reassuring to see that whales such as yourself are mindful of the abuses that are occurring on steemit. But on a more holistic level, this is just placing a bandage on an open wound - while it addresses a symptom, it doesn't delve into the systemic deficiencies that have spurred the disparities in reward distribution to begin with.
Ultimately, I am not sure what the solution is, but it will likely require a meeting of the minds among whales that actually care about the long term viability of this platform to initiate constructive changes. This appears to be a step in that direction; if nothing else, it will spur much needed discussion and ideas for appropriate corrective actions to be taken. For steemit's sake.
It's already tough enough for those of us who write posts that take 4+ hours to write and 30+ minutes to read with the 7 day limitation.
Your idea is only going to further help the shitpost or easily consumable content creators. Some of us make content that is long-term useful and takes longer to appreciate, and if anything, we'd like to get a bigger window of upvotes, and also better ways for people to find our content.
Fair enough. But with the upvote abuse that is evidently rampant with the existing seven day window, I can't imagine what it would be like if this window was extended even further. I understand your point regarding the time and effort put into writing quality posts - I have written about this issue myself, and my post upholds the utility that bots offer serious contributors without sizeable follower counts in trying to get recognition. It is simply impossible under the current paradigm as it exists across the platform - whales and those they support will invariably get the most attention drawn to their content via the trending section.
Forgive me, but I decided to answer this as its own comment in order to hopefully spread the information, and because it's gotten long enough.
Software that uses a Steem node can respond in seconds to a payment. Do you think a seven days limit prevents a script from responding?
I just made a post called "Decentralized Up-Votes...
COIN MAN by @pocketechange
It's easy for the bot owners to make this change, yes. And personally, If i was a bot owner I would go with this plan.
I would see this as a chance to make a big deal about it and advertise the fact that you are helping give time for 'the cat' to flag the 'poor content'. I think the Bot owner who takes this stance first will do well.
3/4 days is plenty of time to Bot a post, I must admit to waiting this long purely to let my followers who aren't around every day a change to get in before extra $$ comes so their curation is boosted.
Cheers!
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow to every post and also like this comment
come on why did i just do that?
Looking back at this, i really didn't think anyone was gonna comply, but damn, most of them sure did. I guess money really does talk, RIP all the SBD lost.
Instead us who don't pay for votes will get 100% votes from you, amr, amr?! :D.
I do a weekly #runforsteem challenge that could use some exposure next week. Starting every saturday. Don't vote for it today, it's the last day of the challenge and a new one begins tonight.
So far we have runners from the UK, Germany, the US who run, post their results and I pay them for it ones a week. Check us out if you like to earn while working out.
If this begging was too obvious, I don't regret it. It's a good thing ;)
Hugs!
Jumowa
The truth hurts...
People will abuse the upvote bots because money and greed is involved. But there are people that try their best to produce good content and use the upvote bots b/c they wish to stay on this platform and gain monetarily just like the dolphins/whales.
But can anyone just place a regulation on services here? And if they do not like what is going on, downvote?
Not everyone that is using the upvote bots will see this post, so I guess they will eventually figure it out when they use the bot after 3.5 days... (And how was the 3.5 days determined???)
Kind of ironic to make a post about reward pool rape when you upvote your own comments "SBD Correction" for $140 10+ times/day for weeks.
You did pretty fucking well raping the reward pool last week posting a single comment "SBD Correction" over and over and upvoting it. In fact, you probably made more in the last week than every person who submitted a post older than 3.5 days in the last month combined pulling in almost $20K USD posting "Place Holder" and "SBD Correction" comments.
You destroyed all the posts my curation team worked on for the week because my delegator flagged you for doing the above. You also went and flagged me which I assume for the same reason. My curation team who spends hours every day giving back to the community had nothing to do with anything, and you decided to destroy all their work because you got flagged for doing just what you are fighting against. I had nothing to do with your reward pool rape and the fact you got flagged for it, but you decided to attack me too.
You are just a terrorist and it sounds like you just want to rape the reward pool and randomly flag.
While I don't disagree with not accepting posts after a certain point, I have been planning on locking it off for 5 days, you are the last one to be preaching about reward pool rape and there is no doubt you will just rape the reward pool yourself or flag anyway, what's the point?
MarkyMark, those are some pretty damn good points and indeed the grumpy cat has done it and it has been doing the things which he intend to stop to so Mr.Cat how does it justify ur work that u want to do.
and just look at this ur reply, kitty ur comment is just "fixed" and nothing else how the fuck is it worth a 131$ upvote. U have ur power but the thing is u are raping the pool more than others. so idk what u want to do by doing that limiting off time on bid bots.
This is true. Seen it with my own eyes.
The point is to swing his dick around.....that's something you like to do as well is it not? I don't like GC, but I haven't seen him backup ShitScum yet...I've seen you do that. And I actually agree with much of what you said. It's too bad you're all tied up together, can't tell any of you apart at this point. You all look like BS and GC over there.
You going to defend this? Grumpy votes on a sock puppet:
You and Marky would do well to agree to disagree and focus on the BANK ROBBERY taking place while you two fight over the "take a penny, leave a penny" tray.
You and your @haejin cult can say whatever you like, I posted three images showing one user getting $20K+/day from primarily one user and your cult runs a campaign against me because I'm a much smaller target than @berniesanders. The hypocrisy is legendary.
All the @haejin groupies have made death threats, dox threats, and flagged me around the clock because of those three images and harass me on a daily basis. @haejin started flagging me as well because he is just as much of a terrorist as @grumpycat is and you are lecturing me about shitscum?
The funny thing is, you can add up all the hundreds of @haejin followers, and 98% of them add up to about 75 SP. A majority of them are automated bots.
This is what I posted that got @haejin's mindless army to attack me relentlessly.
While the one person giving him votes runs a multi-million dollar business with a 1.5-star rating.
give me vote and follow i also give you vote and follow and also like this comment
Yeah Marky....as you see displayed right in front of you...when you're really successful, people attack you and your business. I don't know but it could explain his business rating....not my concern. All the allegations against myself and haejin are false, and you stand by your boy..... and then this: https://steemit.com/steemit/@themarkymark/huge-whale-about-to-buy-up-a-lot-of-steem
He's right, you should hold yourself to a higher standard, but it's very obvious the boys club doesn't want any competition. You're being singled out because you're a witness here, not because of your account size or influence. Just so we are clear....you're a target because you backed BS and his unwarranted claims of bot votes, that's what got allllllll this started.....and he lied about the payout, or didn't care to get it right before posting and making 10k off the post. And you supported it, and then went on to mock those who were attacked by another witness with no evidence for his claims. THAT is why you are targeted. Don't feel sorry for yourself or your account size, that has nothing to do with it. It's like I said man, walk straight or stand by your garbage fire friend, but don't feel sorry for yourself.....you are the only reason you are being targeted. Get your little crew under control, and knock this shit off before everybody suffers more.
Disagree with payouts....fine. Lie about how the payouts come and profit off of those lies.....not ok.
And let's be real, Haejin was doing this for pennies for months before he garnered this audience....it's not ONE person voting him. It's hundreds to thousands.....don't like it, flag it, but don't do what yall did and continue to support those actions.
OHH JESUS, I just reread that, and saw you think they are bots also.....?? Good god yall are dense. We run ads and have websites, and use multiple platforms....it's good planning, get over it. And I don't want to hear one damn thing about bots when you stand by the bot master who OBVIOUSLY wants to hurt people trying to do their best.
There were no lies, the site steem.supply had a bug, later the site reported he was taking 1,200% of the reward pool. The developer has since fixed it, but the end result is no different, once you factor in SBD -> STEEM price, the % is actualy higher. I've already shown the math a few times.
I am not @berniesanders and I have no control what he does, but I totally agree one author getting $25K USD/day is a problem and completely support that. Feel free to twist it anyway that works for your cult.
" I totally agree one author getting $25K USD/day is a problem"
This is totally arbitrary. Why? What is acceptable?
Show your work.
THANK YOU! Holy Shit, why is that so hard to understand?
Cult...bots....you guys have lost your minds. If he was wrong unintentionally, don't you think you should suggest he retracts that post in public and returns the 10,000 dollars he made off of those miscalculations that by the way also caused a wave that's still washing over us.
The number was wrong in the context but it is still accurate due to the conversion of SBD.
It is a cult, all the users follow him blindly and attack on command. They have zero investment or participation in Steem. All they do is act as an echo chamber or harass anyone who isn’t in the group.
AND AGAIN, nobody thinks you shouldn't flag for disagreements on payment. But you shouldn't make 10k off of an inaccurate article that enrages people who blindly follow the bot lies as well. That's robbery man, and you know it. Nothing is twisted here brother. We worked our asses off to get here, we are simply defending the truth. You know it too, that's the sad part.
I can't believe you think they are bots also......cheese and rice man, get a grip. I thought you would be smarter than that. Too much koolaid for you I guess.
I have proof there are bots just look at his votes on steemd and you will see 20-40+ votes coming from each person in short time. There are lots of accounts doing this. The bots are no big deal as they have no stern power and don’t rape the reward pool, the issue is the $300 * 10 votes from one person.
That is NOT proof man. My phone literally never stops making noise because followers ask me when haejin is going to post next, what does he think about this or that, and on and on.....they LITERALLY sit there and refresh the page until he posts. It's success, and it's being punished. Trust me, I've TRIED to make a bot, and didn't have time to fuck with that shit. We have on average 30k visitors to our website a week. Haejin certainly doesn't have time to make bots, and he doesn't even know how to anyway. He got that following through well placed ads, hard work, and doing something that I have NEVER seen ANYONE else on the web do....he takes personal requests for analysis. We got over 800 in the first four hours of the day the other day. There aint even time for the nonsense yall are making assumptions about. If the small voters arent a big deal, why do you guys keep referring to them as part of the debate? Nobody gave a shit what we were doing until he started making real money. Fair or not, you've got your recourse within the system with the flag. But this has gone WAYYYYY beyond that.
Fixed.
I think every upvote selling bot should implement some sort of screening before upvoting, as lately I 've been seeing some pathetic content (mostly copy/paste) making tons...
This would have been unnecessary if the developers of steem would have answered the simple question in v1.0 "What are we going to do about pay per click advertising?" "Will it be allowed?" I'm late to this party, but it looks incredibly "naive" that they didn't think of this way back then.
Agreed. They clearly didn't think through a lot of things. Dan Larimer isn't even heavily involved in the platform anymore and has moved on to EOS, which is valued at $5B at the time of this post.
Thank you, it was about time to take actions.
The vote selling services are really ruining the Steemit experience. Flag them all the way!
▀
Siempre es bueno las restricciones, un poco de limitación ayuda a que las personas se centren como debe ser. No rompan reglas ni acuerdos. Siempre hay personas que lo hacen pero para que ser una más? .
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Thanks for the info, I'm new to Steemit and trying to learn the ropes. This seems very logical to me considering what attracted me to Steemit initially was the authentic "people power", genuinely voting for what they actually liked.
Real people are here, SC, just keep putting out good content and this war for freedom from oppressive control at the top will pass you by unscathed.
We need people to build the new.
I don't see a problem with this either, upvoting an older post doesn't get it onto a hot list or tending list in hopes of more attention from others. Basically, it is just trying to get a bit more rewards from that post.
I use voting bots, wish I didn't have to at the moment. But I use them early in hopes of gaining some more viewership. One day I hope I don't have to use them at all!
"I don't see a problem with this either, "
Yeah, except WHO IT IS COMING FROM:
3 guesses who all those votes are from, and the first 2 don't count.
Haejin? Blocktrades? Ned?
Oy. I meant the policy of not voting after 3 days. But I can't get behind this if the person pushing this is playing that type of game...
Don't get any more attention from a huge vote after 3.5 days. No change in trending, ect
This is extortion
You're so nice for commenting on this post. For that, I gave you a vote!
Thanks. I appreciate that. I've started a report to consolidate posts for people to upvote and help those that were victims to recoup their losses. https://steemit.com/abuse/@r351574nc3/grumpy-report-01-16-2018
Please Resteem it so we can go on helping.
When I first came on Steemit I saw the abuses of the system and decided that it was not for me. If I have to cheat to win then I don't want to play. I never thought of this platform as a way to get rich anyway. I did think it was a way to share thoughtful posts! I have been gratified to see my rep score gradually increase as I have been taken more seriously.
In this coming year I hope to do even better and I'm grateful that flagrant abuse of buying and selling of up votes is being addressed. I've never asked for one up vote!
Sounds good @grumpycat... Whales and Dolphins will do another step to be responsible on their voting power to help others and not for their own interest only...
Okay... I'm totally confused. Can someone please, please, PLEASE, explain to me just a little about the reward pool and why a huge fuss is being made about it recently? I feel it's bad for Steemit that complaining posts such as these and other whales, witnesses and dolphins should be at the top of the trending page, but what do i know?
All I've ever thought about since joining is creating god content and bringing more persons in myself, and I plan to do this for as long as the platform exists. Are these issues a threat to the platform? Are they things a veteran must know? Can't we all just go back to our loving selves, all creating good content and benefiting from it? Because really that's all I want.
:'(
I think this problem will likely start to go away as we introduce better ways for people to see personally curated content. Unless you have a lot of followers, it is hard for your post to gain any traction. I am working on a feed that would show you posts that were upvoted by people you follow. So far it's been a lot better at finding good content than any other of the built in feeds. I just posted about my proof-of-concept here.
Any ideas would be appreciated!
(upvoted for visibility)
I think that was a good ide. But the bigger problem is the selling regardless of quality. Spam plagiarism and all kinds of shitposts are getting to the trending page.
WTF ... You received votes by all these service , to which you give warning .. What is This @upme @appreciator @buildawhale @booster
you all give 100% vote to this post and make it place in trending
do you all want to closed your services ??
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, as there are going to big hitters on both sides trying to enforce their respective wills.
Seems like we need a God or a superior force here on Steemit, just like real life; Cause we humans after many years haven't managed to get along, always thinking about ourselves and thinking just about fucking money (yeah money it's good but still) Meow!
I have a legit question for the grumpy cat.
I do know some Steemians that actually wait to the very last moment to buy an upvote as a way to reward there human upvoters with a curation reward.
Would you be willing to exempt a new upvote service from this rule if it had an ROI of 0? meaning that after curations rewards the Steemian got back exactly what he paid for the upvote and the only ones who benefited where the up voters?
Sorry, I'm new here. Who are you exactly? Can someone here explain WTH is going on lol?
What about plagiarism? How will you stand to stamp that out?
This guy is a joke, what a troll right?
that cat is very cut when he's grumpy ;-)
He let's the claws out, quick like.
yeah I won't go too close ;-)
I think he is just pissed steemit has turned in to a litter box. Grumpy is a tomcat who has always pissed outside and marked his territory.
"Look to my coming on the first light of the fifteenth day, at dawn look to the east."
grumpy the grey
It makes me sad.
Some of those vote sellers appear to have boosted this post. Does that mean they support it? I can understand minnows trying to make a little more, but some people who regularly trend are buying votes and self-voting to take an even larger share. That seems wrong to me.
The Post is boosted by @checkthisout, and yes anyone who sends money will get an upvote, i personally add some accounts to blacklist who try to upvote shit posts in last days.
Interesting that Grumpy has been supporting junk comments by that account. Who's raiding the pool?
Grumpy is the abuser, in case you missed it:
This is why I'm confused. It's sad to see such greed that could destroy what we are building here
And just now:
This two accounts are same person, after big flag war this i guess is the way to redemption for this cat.
I had guessed as much
In fact ... this should be completely banned, scammers were doing the same thing on youtube, which made it a mess for all those genuine up-loaders...something else, businesses might start coming here to use it to sell their products which will make it even worse, this place should remain clean of all the negatives that made youtube they way it is today.
Meanwhile Grumpy cat uses the same bots he flags people for.
A welcome and timely intervention indeed. Lets ensure only quality gets rewarded
excuse me
Much like the real world, a few unscrupulous people exploit holes in the system to the detriment of the community. Humanity 101