Will you please read this post if you care about the future of Steem because what we see here is the most important issue we are currently facing for Steem? If we seriously hope for our blockchain to continue to grow in value and to continue to attract more investors, more authors and more users, we either need to take care of this in the next hard fork or sell today before the price goes to $0.
Why is the Steem Price So Low + How Can We Fix It?
The simple reason the price is so low is that the demand to buy Steem is much less than the supply from sellers willing to take any price for it. While we cannot fix most individual issues related to why Steem is bought and sold, we can make one change that will remove a huge reason that investors sell Steem and authors stop posting on Steem.
Flagging Rewards = Millions of Steem Sold = Lower Price
When we imagine Steem with just one feature having been removed, I estimate that the value of Steem today would be closer to $10 instead of a $1 if in the previous hardfork we had made one relatively small change. If we expect Steem to ever consistently grow in value and in daily users, the time is now at a bare minimum to test removal of the ability to remove rewards from a post by flagging.
Blockchain Downvoting = Blockchain Censorship
I am very grateful Steemit Inc just made the following post on their blog named Censorship: Why All Blockchain Projects Should Join Steem (especially Status) because it highlights the vision for Steem (a censorship free blockchain community) versus the reality (a heavily censored blockchain community).
Of course, even if we didn’t want you, there’s nothing we could do to keep you from posting and even earning STEEM!
Part of this is true and the other part is a complete lie. While technically no one can stop you from posting, tens of thousands of people can stop your posts from being visible and from earning Steem unless you stick to a very particular format while following the laws in the USA. In fact, Steemit Inc is delegating millions of Steem power to a project that systematically downvotes mostly new authors trying to get started on Steem while failing to downvote any of the most obvious abuses. While this is rationalized as "being there to protect the rewards pool" the obvious reality is missed that one's idea of a post unworthy of earning rewards is based largely on culture.
Most Authors Start with Crap and Get Better.
On top of that, most people's early creative efforts are crap which then gets called spam and gets downvoted here. My first (and some would argue recent) videos online were ways to say the f word. My first website was incredibly ugly. My first blog posts were bad. The first posts I made on Facebook were crap. If we do not allow authors to start with crap and still earn rewards, we are killing off almost all of the seeds that would later grow into valuable contributions.
That said, Steemit Inc's delegation to a project downvoting mostly minnows collectively for hundreds of dollars a day is the tip of the iceberg. Several big Steem power holders spend the majority of their time "killing accounts" and trying to shut up authors like me that post anything potentially disagreeable. YouTube offers way less censorship than Steem does today because only YouTube can remove earnings while anyone with Steem power can go take money away from anyone else.
My last stand up comedy video on Steem was a perfect test case here to demonstrate that censorship is alive and well on Steem. This censorship is ruining the potential of our blockchain for investors and authors. The price today makes that clear and it is time to stop blaming it on the Bitcoin price and start considering what we can do about it.
Downvoted Investors + Authors Eventually Sell Everything
Our authors and investors collectively have sold millions of Steem instead of buying millions more Steem and powering it up because of relatively small downvotes. While rationally this makes no sense, when we understand that most human beings are predictably irrational everything becomes clear.
Most of us are more motivated by the threat of punishment than we are seeking a reward. Most of us getting downvoted $20 will feel more emotion than we will earning $200 from our posts. Thus when we think about a downvote it feels much bigger than what it was while the rewards then become smaller. All of us that had parents who were willing to hit us if we did not do what we were told understand that the fear of being hit was nearly constant even if the parents did not that often follow through.
Over the last year, I have watched authors and investors like me that were really excited about Steem enough to collectively investment millions of dollars turn around and nearly unanimously sell out usually directly after achieving enough success to get recognized and downvoted. While some held on for months in the face of consistent flags while others left at the first downvote on a comment, over a year nearly all sold AND stopped posting on Steem. This is a big part of the reason why despite having almost ten times as many users today as a year ago, the price of Steem remains about the same while the daily number of posts is actually dropping as seen at https://steemit.com/steemit/@penguinpablo/weekly-steem-stats-report-monday-june-25-2018.
Solution: Move Downvoting from Blockchain to User Interface
The #1 argument in favor of keeping downvoting is that we need to regulate the content posted to Steem which I completely agree with. We want to encourage high quality content and discourage spam, plagiarism etc. When we do this directly on the blockchain with rewards, we are creating a community of censorship where any stakeholder can simply take money away from anyone else for any or no reason while user interfaces then are forced to respect what happened on the blockchain.
The call to action I'm suggesting is that we immediately remove the ability to downvote from the blockchain and move it into each individual user interface such as https://steemit.com, https://busy.org, https://dlive.io, etc. because this gives us the majority of the benefits we get out of downvoting while removing nearly all of the downside in terms of the value of the community and the Steem price. Meanwhile, trying to exert power and control on the blockchain becomes very difficult without downvoting but easier on an individual user interface.
Blockchain Downvoting Empowers Hate, Drama, Discrimination, Bias, and Racism
Did I throw in enough words to get your attention because this is the tip of the iceberg? With blockchain downvoting being completely out any centralized control compared to doing flags by user interface, we allow for everything we dislike to be used as a criteria for being downvoted.
Don't like someone's skin color? Downvote them! Dislike someone's religion? Kill off their account with downvotes. Hate a certain sexual orientation? Silence their voice with a downvote long enough and they will leave. Want to discriminate against posts promoting a certain cryptocurrency or using a certain bid bot voting period? Flag the rewards and teach those bastards a lesson!
Top Stakeholders Spending More Time Downvoting Than Upvoting?
When you realize every one downvoting my recent stand up comedy cared more about trying to teach me a lesson than giving you an upvote on your post, then we see the real problem. Allowing any downvoting on the blockchain encourages people having a bad day or drunk at a party trying to show off or on some righteous path to pour time and energy into figuring out which posts to downvote instead of which posts to upvote.
Despite only having downvoted a few posts myself, I have thought about it a lot. I have imagined who I would downvote and how they would feel. I have even considered launching a downvoting service and imagined how awesome it would be to watch the anonymous transfers come in and then lay big downvotes on people otherwise immune to direct downvotes out of fear of retaliation. In considering the total time spent, it seems today most of the big voters actually are spending more time reading and talking about disagreeable posts than focusing on finding and upvoting quality posts.
Blockchain Downvotes = Voting Bots
When investors try to post and get downvoted, the logical solution is either to sell or delegate to a voting bot to get the highest return. In theory, it seems good to try to take rewards from those posting ten times a day and upvoting themselves until we consider the bigger picture. What if the posts from those self upvoting ten times a day add a lot of value to the blockchain? Why not just let someone take their $300 a day payout instead of downvoting them to $100 a day when they either decide to sell their $300,000 worth of Steem or delegate it to a voting bot?
I estimate the delegations to voting bots would be a fraction of what they are today without blockchain level flagging while the amount of posts on Steem would be five or ten times higher as more authors simply upvoted their own posts and naturally over time upvoted others following them too.
Speaking Out Against Downvoting = Flag + Witness Vote Removal
In theory we should be able to have a rational discussion about this where we compare the pros and cons while sharing our experience. In reality, when we even start talking about getting rid of flagging on a blockchain level, we immediately get downvoted. Within minutes of mentioning that I was thinking about making a post about removing downvoting, I lost a huge witness vote which dropped me out of the top 20.
Fear of Downvotes and Losing Witness Votes = Silence
If all of this is not bad enough, even as fearless as I think I am, my self centered interest in making money guided me for a year to keep my mouth shut about downvoting even as I saw it wreck accounts of those I loved including my own wife. After around two months as a top 20 witness and a friend's desperate pleading with me to see how toxic his experience of being flagged was for his future on Steem as an investor and author, I finally got the courage to speak up on behalf of all of us with the certainty it would immediately cost me what was at the time $500 a day in witness rewards earnings.
How many of our witnesses are willing to lose $500 a day to speak out against a feature that many of the top witness voters love using to exercise power and control on Steem? I decided to do it because the pain of keeping my mouth shut was greater than the pain of giving up the money.
Protest by Selling Steem!
Most of those with a lot of Steem power I have talked to and watched downvote have no interest in anything I have written here or any of the experience of other authors on the blockchain. The general feeling is "I can do what I want with my Steem" and "Having a lot of Steem power gives me the right to do whatever I want." After my experience seeing clearly that these stakeholders make it clear to the top 20 witnesses that any public disagreement leads to having a witness vote removed, how likely is it that the witnesses will agree to this change when considering the possibility of joining me in the lower ranks without the 260 Steem power a day a top 20 witness gets?
Therefore our best option to communicate how much we disagree is to power down and sell Steem to lower the value as much as possible to motivate those holding on forever to make whatever change is necessary to keep the people happy and to allow those buying in to have more influence per dollar invested. I have been powering down and selling for nearly two months now prior to making this announcement and intend to sell all the rest of the Steem I have bought (about 40,000 more) this year until the ability to downvote on the blockchain is removed.
Ready for Change!
For the first time in a year, I am opening myself up to being attracted to another blockchain which has similar functionality to Steem without allowing downvoting. If another community presents a better opportunity for free speech on the blockchain and good rewards for authors before Steem removes the ability to flag from the blockchain, I will sell all of my Steem and use my blog here to exclusively promote that competitor. I already know of several other top authors here that have left, are in the process of switching, or will leave when a better opportunity comes along. When the critical threshold is reached, that is game over for Steem regardless of smart media tokens because Steem itself has to be a success story to attract the use of a SMT and if a competitor is easy to clone on another blockchain, why bother with a SMT?
A Deeper Look on Video
I am releasing the video above on YouTube today to help anyone on YouTube see what the biggest problem is with Steem today and how we can fix it. An upcoming post will feature an edited transcript of this video and help us continue the conversation further.
Fix It or Fail
We will act quickly together to get rid of downvoting on the Steem blockchain or Steem will fail to achieve everything it was setup to accomplish in being a platform free from censorship where our voice has value. As it stands today, Steem is a heavily censored blockchain where those with the most money make nearly all of the new Steem and actively collaborate in silencing the voice of anyone disagreeing. Anyone that speaks out or shares a truth that offends any big stakeholder is subject to losing everything which makes this a community inferior to all of the ones it attempts to be better than.
I refuse to continue helping a community grow which will not act in the best interest of the majority of its authors and investors. I am committed to continue the conversation on this until either we make the change or I run out of Steem power.
Where Can We Be Free to Share, Connect, and Earn?
I am imaging a future where a blockchain empowers us globally to each share our voice without fear of loss from downvotes while each user interface makes decisions on what to show to readers. I am seeing people everywhere grateful to earn enough on this blockchain to support a family and be free from oppressive work and governments.
The question is will this blockchain I see be Steem or will we stubbornly refuse to change and leave Steem behind for something better?
Love,
Jerry Banfield
https://jerrybanfield.com/
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What I see is an attempt to scapegoat something you don't like for personal reasons, downvotes, to try to explain the declining market price of STEEM.
The market price is a very complex issue and I really can't believe that you believe downvoting is the primary reason for the market decline. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt because you're obviously unqualified to understand market basics, but it's still obvious to anyone paying attention just to the Steem world that downvoting is not the cause of STEEM market price decline.
Your populist appeal to remove downvotes from Steem, which would be ruinous, is an appeal to defend yourself from the rational reactions to your own shortcomings. I'm downvoting this post as it is my right as a Steem stakeholder to remove rewards and trending ranking to posts I don't think are deserving of either.
My crack team have determined it was the price of Bitcoin going down that pushed all other crypto's down. No more easy market manipulation by exchanges. That really hurt our fake meteoric rise, bringing us back towards reality. So, my crack team has determined that prices are exactly where they should be if not for a market manipulation.
Hey Jerry, you ever do any market manipulation?
Hey @jerrybanfield I need an account for my fishfriend. Where do I send the $50 to?
You can create account for less than 50$ dont't send any money to this scammer. You can use annosteem for that.
I'm pretty sure @fishandchips was being sarcastic :P
You got it right, I was messing around. I know annonsteem and blocktrades offer instant account creation services at a fair price.
I would never send Jerry a single satoshi. If I would want to support a scammer I would donate to a church instead.
I believe they were being sarcastic.
That's truth directed to the yugular right there.
If the words populist appeal does not raise a red flag on people's mind, then I don't know if we will ever learn from the lessons of history after all.
Jerry... ouch... where your big money under your post? You so long write this post to get nothing...
Way to stand up for the little guy, that being centralized everything, that picks and chooses how you live your life. This graphic is so laughably left wing propaganda I don't know where to start. Populism is a leftist label given to those people that want to slow the amount government is running their lives day to day. Simple. So to follow this logic would imply that the removal of any central authority's power of any kind is due to racism toward the scapegoats of the entity? We (meaning I have no idea who you are talking about because people on an individual basis learn at their own speeds based on their individual interests and life experiences, I do not learn everything you learn and you do not learn everything I learn, all cognition is not a to b then it has to be c, in a vacuum like you present it here). To imply this is to assume any cuts of any kind to central government is done out of racism, or a conspired effort to hold classes of people down? Really? I have seen some of your statement on a lot of things, they are very well thought out, virtually always but this one unfortunately falls short. I should have more often voiced my agreement in what you are saying more often, like 90-95% of the time you have a very coherent and solid basis of facts. I could site my favorite "right wing nut bag" authors with a similar flow chart but that would be equally a fool's errand.
I think you missed my point completely, but that's completely OK. I'm neither left wing, right wing. A few years ago I walked away from the magical bird.
The graph (not mine) was simply shared as a visual representation of the psychology at play here. Not an actual representation with the dotted i's and crossed t's as you are assuming I meant.
What Jerry has effectively done here is appeal to the populus, to the little guy, to the tiny account that can't seem to get ahead on the platform, telling those accounts he knows the answer, he knows the reason.
ITS THE FLAGS
Then he pivots, directs the blame towards the witnesses and stake holders who want to keep the flags as the culprits painting them all with a broad brush.
You may not see it this way, and in this sense we can agree to disagree. I won't start citing titles and diplomas to back claims, they either stand on their own or they fall flat in pools of stupidity.
So to be clear about my position.-
Jerry is using his anecdotal evidence to call for a change on the platform that would remove the ability for the participants of the platform to police the community.
To say he has been flagged because of jealousy, because he makes too much, or anything of the sort is to ignore the evidence. You may choose to ignore it, your choice.
I think you made some political assumptions about me, and this may be because you are not aware of the dominating anarchist stance of most users of this platform, thus you balled me up with some people you've normally interacted with. I personally don't play ball on that field.
So, ignore the specifics of the chart for a second and attempt to grasp my intention within the context of my reply.
Populism mixed with escape goating is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah I guess, I did. Oh well, your explanation nails it right on. That was actually why I was a little surprised you went the political route to explain that, but yes, anger the natives, get out the pitchforks (so to speak of course, lol) and blame 'downvoting.' I try to refrain from arguing politics because yes "the magic bird" is a losing proposition. The more local the argument to the heart of the matter and solution, the less need for political infusion. Very well put, no hard feelings I hope, I try not to peg anyone on an uncensored platform like this, because too often I find I am nowhere close. BTW this new pic sure takes heated conversation down quickly, lol.
Everything is well brother!
:)
Seems to me most of the anger is aimed at Jerry here.
In all fairness @meno, I am one of those little guys and you never asked me or my kind how we feel. I am in powerdown mode currently because of the flagging abuse (silencing), as are many others. This platform should never be one that is considered to be decentralized! I suggest you pay closer attention to what the "little man" has been screaming about for the last year or so.
looks like something fell out of the rear end of my cow
I actually think that if more people had this approach to trending posts, the product on Steemit and other Steem applications would be a lot better, which could possibly have an affect on price. I say this from the perspective of someone who has been flagged a lot. The other day, @whatsup made a post saying we should act like we own it, in regards to Steem. I wholeheartedly agree. Even with my small stake, I consider this my platform, my product. In that mindset, I want to be able to affect the product put forth, in consensus with all other investors. Voting, both up and down, is the way we reach that consensus. It's good for Steem.
I agree and I also think this is a thinly disguised whine post, a category which does not add value to Steem and doesn't deserve rewards (post and whine if you like, but don't expect to be paid for it).
@smooth yes you are right
Jerry Banfield's face does not add value to steem? wtf, man...
Thanks for explaining this, mate. For minnow content creators like me, it's good to have someone like yourself deconstruct Jerry's rant so as to dispell fear of Steem diving the way he claims.
Oh please nathan, don't listen to this guy. On this is he is very wrong.
Hey mate, I was listening to @pfunk and @meno. Are you saying I shouldn’t in this case?
Why would removal of flags be ruinous? I usually hate @jerrybanfield, but it seems like he has a point here. Don't really know if this point is data-driven, but why do you think Dan Larimer moved to Medium?
Assuming flags will only be given out for purposes beneficial to the larger Steem community is like assuming that every post or comment is only made for good. If you consider Spam or scams to be bad content, you must also consider a portion of flags to be 'bad flags'. Jerry does have a point here; a flag has much more psychological impact compared to an upvote.
Is 'aggrandizement' a good reason to flag?
Without downvotes the Steem platform's method of reward and stake distribution would not work. Parasitic abusers would consume the host.
Without downvote abuse, it would work even better!
How?
What part of the word "abuse" did you not understand? Steemit is flawed, it's that simple. Until Steemit is cleaned up and returned to it's original design and intent, it will never get better. Getting rid of rogue witnesses would be a good start!
Steemit's (the website) original design was a mess. Didn't have wallet pages, didn't have a lot of things. Though there was something in the original design that unfortunately has been changed. A downvote was called a downvote, not erroneously called a flag.
If you mean Steem's original design, it originally was designed and intended to have downvotes.
Without flags bad actors have free game on this platform and that is not good. We will destroy this platform if can not stop bad actors by removing their rewards, we can never censor them though.
I'm one of those bad actors you speak about (who got flagged into oblivion). So do tell... what did I do wrong? (Caution: requires a certain amount of reading and research to come to a conclusion, if you really want to back up your answer.)
I think the platform would quite possibly be improved by incentivizing flagging high reward posts. The higher the value of a post you flag when you flag it, the higher your curation reward.
I think that would only incentivize people to flag high reward posts regardless of whether the content is good or bad.
But I think it's in a direction we should start looking.
True, but i would argue that the posts with the highest payouts are rarely worth it, even for the good posts. And flags are inherently limited by steempower just as upvotes are. Sounds like an interesting bot experiment (that would no doubt anger a lot of people). Maybe a cap per post and/or per user per day would help?
As to your first point, that's fair. There is mostly crap floating to the top of the bowl.
I've always felt an upvote should max at $1 or $2. Does it really need to be more than that? If you have more voting power, then you can cast more votes and get more curation that way.
Also, I'd get rid of this 23.13% upvote nonsense. If you want to upvote something, go all in, and upvote it 100%. if you want to get rid of bots, this is the way to go. (Not that I'm necessarily against using bots, but this seems the logical route to go, as it seems to me.)
If the upvote had a max value then I would agree with getting rid of the percentage slider. Then people with more steem power would just have more votes. However, without doing that, reducing the percent of your vote is the only way to get more votes and have them count for anything (at least for those of us that have sub $1 votes anyway). As it is, I usually vote at about 33%.
You are only incentivizing further bad behavior (and major flagging wars). My suggestion is for someone to create a "Steemit Battlefield" game, where all those so-called bad actors can defend themselves from the Whale Aggressors! Knives and swords only.
This post is not mainly about the steem price. It's about that the community has no power here on steemit...
But the title though ?
Ya I watch the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title. Why the steem-price is low is a more complex issue that is for sure. Jerry talk about flaws in the steem-blockchain that makes real and good content producers go away. This way the steem-price will be affected negatively in the long run or steemit might even will be prevented from becoming huge.
Ya I watched the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title. Why the steem-price is low is a more complex issue that is for sure. Jerry talk about flaws in the steem-blockchain that makes real and good content producers go away. This way the steem-price will be affected negatively in the long run or steemit might even will be prevented from becoming huge.
Maybe for click bait, to get people to visit his post via a lie. So he could put his truth out to the little guy.
Exactly! And precisely the reason I moved to Stishit where all members are created equal, regardless of how much crypto they hold!
Cmon @pfunk
Everyone knows Bitcoin follows the price of Steem and everything else follows Bitcoin so Jerry being downvoted driving the price of Steem down is crashing the entire market :(
Have you no heart man ?
However, I don't believe breastfeeding on Youtube should be supported on the blockchain.
LOL
Agreed, this is junk and not worth much attention. Flagged.
It's junk because you disagree with Jerry or because you don't think he put the effort in?
Seems like he is genuine in his suggestion even if one disagrees.
Your posts seem ok I also like EOS but I don't think it's as much effort as Jerry has put in.
Feel free to downvote all my posts since you have the power.
Seeing the level of anger on comments here is really disappointing.
I downvoted this post because Jerry makes false assumptions that the price of steem goes down because of the flags. When Steem reached 8 dollars, we still had the flag option, so his assumption is more than wrong. Secondly, it is clear that he wants to remove the flag option because he wants to have his payouts secured, which one more time reveals the greed that jerry has.
I find it useless to put effort into a post that spreads misinformation and demand changing the rules for an entire blockchain only to satisfy one's greed.
You downvoted this post because you don't like JB, that is simple to see. He has an opinion and his opinion is just as valuable as yours, regardless of how weird he might seem to some people!
I have stated the honest reason for downvoting that post. It is my right to do it and I believe that it was a wise choice regarding the good of this blockchain.
It is true that I don't like Jerry lately, but this is not the reason for downvoting his post.
Would it be fair to say then that people that don't value your opinion, they should downvote your comment, like your's above? That is the problem with this platform, you should not downvote someone because you disagree with their opinion. Can you counter his argument about why the price is suffering in view of Steemit's supposed growth? IMO, it is because the site has become filled with vile, and that simple fact alone will drive investors away. I came to this platform with very high hopes and invested my own money, only to learn that it is nothing more than a big 'ole wasp nest. And I have been stung!
You're preaching to the choir. Many of the people opposing this aren't new, uninvested, or hard working toward the betterment of the Steem platform.
Let me ask you, what would you expect from the populous in response to one of the main contenders that gover and run the entire network going off the rails ranting about sucking his own dick (way more than mentioning passively, which is still fucked) and going on to display that he has absolutely novice knowledge about how this all works?
If you're being delusional, have at it. If you're misinformed and misled, then lets talk.
I don't flag posts indiscriminately. I flag with conviction, which is why I don't flag you, which you seem to have been expecting.
Jerry is making an absolute -FOOL- of the governing body of this chain. Arguing against that exposes ignorance.
Short and clear.
i cant believe he takes forever to explain one thing, hes just over complicating it.
Lol dude i dont get how he even makes videos and posts so long how do you dance around a point forever like this its insane
He is just mad that it's all happening again, he will sell STEEM like he did with Dash (panic sold) and STEEM will make a huge run, like Dash did...
Don’t u think if we keep flag option then we will never be able to attract that part of business which seek visibility as competitors of that business can use anonymous flaggers to reduce or remove the visibility for which they paid.
Yes, yes and yes... there is truth in all this, steem is a setup...
so if I am Buzzfeed and issue Buzztokens , my competitors will buy them first and then down-vote my content ?
But they already invested in the content by proxy and why would they set fire to their own money ?
Its called greed, what they dont get, those folks on the top, is that with farming the reward pool like they do from day 1, they are killing steem....
I find this interesting
Downvotes is bad due to no curator rewards. I think we should start to pay curator's reward for downvotes to make steem clearer!
Or... 25% from upvotes and 15% from flags.
You could always try to join @steemflagrewards and sign up for @dustsweeper. We try to make it worth a few cents for when you flag abuse.
https://steemit.com/curation/@inertia/now-you-see-that-steem-power-will-always-triumph-because-influence-caps-are-dumb
STEEM Flags have their own issues , will probably have even more complicated issues in future when we have more people coming through the door.
The biggest issues I have seen are people flagging other's post because
a) they don't like what is being said.
b) they disagree with the ideology.
Hopefully as SP gets more distributed this topic resolves itself or maybe mini walled gardens powered by SMTS will solve it.
None of that is to say that there is a correlation between flag abilities and STEEM price . STEEM downvotes are not leaking to Bitcoin / other cryptos , it's a very obvious bear market ( cuz reasons).
Wishfull thinking, money talks and bullshit walks... with no new money entering this scheme, steem is dead...as it should be!!!
Then GTFO.
I love you too... matty-boy!!!
Too bad your botnet is weak as fuck :-/.
lol, it's just a distraction...and a puzzle... attention is priceless...
And you sir @nokodemion have been flagged for NO REASON other than someone disagrees with you. Case and point!
You talks spooky but youre spot on!!!
So how many side distractions until this feckless fucknut finally gets around to leave this platform?
I'm with @pfunk ... Many downvotes are needed and benefit the Steem community. This all said, limiting who can downvote might be good. I'd much rather leave downvoting to community approved people (witness approved?) rather than Joe Blow who just bought 100k steem and wants to downvote something.
To some extent, money shouldn't be able to topple the community, and it hasn't but there may be instances where a downvote is questioned. It would be less questioned if there were someone approved and responsible handling it, just so long as there were enough of such people to get the job done, or they could coordinate other accounts to downvote to achieve the intended result.
Well, if you limit who can downvote, you create a centralized system which can not fight well against censorship. And secondly, this does not stop a rich guy to buy himself a million dollars worth of Steem, power up, vote himself as a witness, then downvote whoever he wants :))
...but it is. I agree that there should be a team of content moderators that stand for the protection of freedom of expression and speech, all the while on the lookout for scams and spams. Call it censorship if you will, but whenever there is money involved, you need governance. History tells all.
The only people deceiving are those abusing their downvote power. AHEM.
what steem coin this work
First, I appreciate the critical comment. I don't agree that is a fair analogy though.
My comment and downvote are in response to a post that I see as disingenuously blaming a necessary feature of Steem on the decline of the market price. Bullshit populist appeals like this can be extremely effective if people don't immediately call them out for what they are.
I think I am one of the biggest proponent of what I call negative curation (flags/downvotes) as a way to improve efficiency of content curation. The main problem with flags is that they don't happen enough and people get startled when they get a big one.
If you'd like to engage in a voice debate about the subject I could make myself available. You can find me on discord.
BTW, In your video you ask us to check back at the trending to see many example of unfair flagging. I looked back at least 5 pages (7 day back) to see any significant amount of flagging. Most post have zero flags, do you think it's normal to have 2000 upvotes on a post and and not get a single downvote?
Have a look for yourself, this UI show flagging of 5$ or more, Nothing is flagged. https://steem-sincerity.dapptools.info/trending-analysis
@transisto I would love to see a back and forth with large Steemians like you and @jerrybanfield. I will be here on STEEMIT no matter what other people do and power down and leave. I am just a little guy that tries very hard to put up some content each day. Thank you for what you do and others do to make STEEMIT a great place to be.
@JerryBanfield would dominate because he is use to public speaking and is actually a user of steem. From what I can tell @transisto is someone who mined steem early on. Now he just runs a voting bot and downvotes.
Spot on!!! Dont fall asleep...it's a scheme, a setup to lurk us minnows from our money...
Dude, he even sells his upvotes, why not give it to content creators.
Why not sell his steem and invest in another coin?
Why does having money mean someone owes it to give to you?
Many investors in cryptocurrency to save and invest their money. Not even sure why some of the big whales stay on this site when all they get is hate.
I can't answer that question,
but jerry banfield already faced some of these issues
@transisto : I am completely at loss to understand why my posts are being flagged by upmyvote. All pictures and text is original from my recent travel. It is this reason I have reservations about flag options
You seem to be suffering from dissociative identity disorder. Don't worry, I take these illnesses seriously and will not judge you.
Remember that day you decided to boost a form of plagiarism to the trending page, then got caught? Do you remember, about twelve hours ago, how you were acting confused about these flags so I reminded you of this incident? That comment is near the bottom of this comment section.
I personally believe once you come to terms with the fact you screwed up that day and stop blocking it from your memory, you'll find yourself feeling a lot less confused about this situation. From there you'll realize you're not actually a victim of anything other than the consequences of your own actions. Then, maybe, you'll stop harassing people and all flags will cease because showing signs of honesty and integrity should never be considered behavior worthy of a flag.
Good luck to you, sir.
Haha I have no idea about this story I just wanted to say that was an amazingly written response. Poetic even. haha
I'm not speaking for the particular situation which I have zero knowledge but just the life concepts!!
You are waking up the users with your clarity using words...thats not allowed...
Why do you ask me? I'm not the one who flagged your post.
This is in reference to the discussion in the post - I wanted my opinion to come to yr attention as u said u are flag supporter.
I think flagging is a double edged sword if used excessively and unchecked then it may have unwanted results.
There should be an active monitoring to see if posts are being flagged for no obvious violation but revenge or other malicious intentions
Just my opinion
I am so sick of your scams and bullshit Jerry. It has been really depressing to see the community thinks you should be a top 20 witness. I have held off too long to do this, but you are blacklisted from @buildawhale which should trickle down to other bid bots that support my blacklist.
You are an incompetent witness and a plague to the platform. There is a reason you have been banned from most platforms you have been part of (your words not mine).
Seeing you in power down mode gave me great joy thinking there was a remote chance you would take your scams and bullshit elsewhere.
https://steemit.com/buildawhale/@buildawhale/buildawhale-blacklist-update-special-edition
@themarkymark is abusing the system so bad it's been going on for a while now there is even videos on YouTube people talking about how they have been affected by @themarkymark
@steemcleaners need to put a stop to this he's making money by spamming people with @badcontent it's not right at all please put a stop to this it's not good for @steemit @blockchain @steepshot @busy @dlive @dmaina @dtube @zappl
Those people are called "plagiarists", "copy/pasters", "comment farmers", and other types whose main goal is to steal from the reward pool and make it so people like you get less rewards.
Idiot, wake up, those whales are the reward pool farmers.... put skin in the game and see how you will be fucked by them...
Message me on discord about your mack-bot flags bro
Yep but he is an authority on what is good content because he runs a voting bot.
thanks I'm watching now almost at the end. Great breakdown of past behavior which matches with what he is doing to @JerryBanfield
He dun it to he wants to run the blockchain
As they say power goes to people's head
Yes, Yes Yes, mirror mirror on the wall, @themarkymark is one of the biggest idiots on steem....
Well said!
I call bullshit.
I clicked the link. It's not censored. You're a liar.
Most? That's bullshit. You're a liar.
Several? That's bullshit and you just threw many undeserving individuals under the bus for no reason.
I had a post flagged away, a long time ago. Look who's still here. So that's bullshit.
So let me get this straight. If I don't agree with the rewards you receive for this seemingly scammy and anti-social behavior here today, you'll simply threaten my investment by encouraging others to dump and that won't stop until I meet your demands? And all this just because you're pouting about something and feel like going on a power trip?
The other option is, you'll power down and leave?
Okay. See ya!
P.S. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You're a bit of a legend - one of the few people to get a full-power downvote from @freedom.
P.S. I can only imagine what your username would be if you signed up today instead of when you did.
Two posts got hit that day, so two full power freedom flags. I think it was because I used the f-word too many times while writing a joke about the f-word. If I remember correctly, I lost potential rewards(not money), but the situation gave me something to write about, which I did, and did it well, so I made some money that way.
The whole situation was a blessing in disguise. People say these flags are censorship but in reality, when a post gets smashed into smithereens with flags like mine did that day, it's much like a train wreck or a car crash. And what do people do when they see a car crash on the streets? They gawk. People want to know what happened, so they look. Since the posts aren't censored after being flagged, people can then conclude with, "Oh. So that's what happened there. Cool."
A blogger needs attention in order to be successful. That situation put a lot of eyes on my blog, so I carried on and made over 22k SP. Whatever! Thanks for the flags!
I didn't pout, I didn't take it personally, I didn't go attempt to retaliate. There was no need to give up and since I like to prove people wrong, I stuck around and did just that.
I'm glad you brought that up. My real life experience and what Jerry is saying here today, well, night and day difference.
As for the name, I'd probably be NoNamesLeftToUse12 by now.
You got a Freedom flag!? Wow youre sooo lucky.. :) jk
Anyways, on topic at hand. Flags have nothing to do with censorship even in a plutocratic society Steem is.
A "flag" is voicing an opinion. A negative one. Based on your own evaluation of the post, the rewards, its trending placement... etc.
What Jerry is asking for is a safe space ..
Taking away the ability of others to speak with their stake on what they want and do not want on this platform.
Taking away flags is an attack on freedom of speech in its purest form.
And the arguments he makes... Terrible. "The biggest danger for Steem"... "steem would be at 10USD if not for flags"....
No, just no. People that get the most flags are the ones that are doing something really wrong or its just drama. People have a right to have drama fights and everything that comes with it.
His credibility was thrown out the window the moment he took the irrational sensationalist approach while going as far as choosing to use his this is an emergency tone of voice commonly heard in advertisements selling chemical cleaners designed to rid the world of stains.
Jerry is asking for a pub he can go to where anti-social behavior isn't thrown out the door by a bouncer. He wants to get drunk and start grabbing women's asses without consequence. So let's think about a pub like that for a second. It wouldn't take long before people hear about these gropers, and they'd simply decide to go somewhere else more civilized. Sure, the pub fills up with more people like Jerry out looking for asses to grab, but there aren't any asses left to grab, then those ass grabbers stop going to the pub, and the place goes out of business. If they would have hired a bouncer, they'd still be in business, because there are far more good, wholesome, decent, civilized types walking the earth than there are savage ass grabbers so it's better for business to get rid of that minority and embrace the good ones.
That's the real world right there. This place isn't much different. Jerry obviously needs to get out more.
Hahaha. By putting the bouncer at the door youre censoring their "bottom-grabbing"... And censorship is bad.
Its not only that you arent allowed to have a bouncer at the door, youre not allowed to even say something....
Thats how far this "remove flags" argument goes.
They censored my cigarettes and now I have to go outside to smoke.
Of course downvoting has a strong element of censorship to it.
By flat out hiding posts, or by demotivating contribution, to mention a few.
The second reason would not be all bad if the influence of a downvote was evenly valued to the individual. However, it is not. It's directly linked to ones SP, which mean censorship can be bought and controlled by the few.
Also, with the utilization of bots, the human factor is in many cases removed. So much of what is being downvoted is never even being considered or evaluated by anyone in the first place.
It really does not. Censorship is institutional. It requires a government or organization effort to suppress speech.
When an individual uses a flag he is using his vote to make a statement on the content in question.
Would you call any negative response to an argument, a claim, content censorship?
No. Flags are pure freedom and need to remain. Removing them takes you in the opposite direction of freedom of speech.
It would be a terrible day if they decide to remove flags. Truly would.
Atm thats the only way the community has towards fighting spam and trash content.
I must disagree. I get the impression that you choose to see the upsides (at least in your opinion) and glance over the negative.
I don't see how censorship have to be institutional. That is how we are used to portray it today, I agree, but it is not a necessity. If we are however to follow that idea, there is already "institutionalized" downvoting within steem today. Groups of individuals that have come together to make a downvote-bot for instance. There is no universally agreed moral that dictates what they today or in the future decide to downvote.
To answer your question "Would you call any negative response to an argument, a claim, content censorship?"
By no means, no. Please do not misunderstand me. I think it is an absolute crucial requirement that critical responses is allowed. However, downvoting is so much more than only that that. Downvoting have multiple functions, and I think it is important to address them individually.
(1). It has a monetary element. It affects the distribution of newly created STEEM. Having the possibility to also vote to take away shares from specific "meaningless" posts could be argued for. This function too can be misused, and who is to determine what is "meaningless" and not. Even then, the persons upvoting "meaningless" content did invest in STEEM and are contributing to the added value. Should they not be able to do with their investment as they see fit? To me this topic is not as clear cut.
(2) Downvoting is actually hiding content. To me that is textbook definition of censorship. No way around it. I can see the argument of making pornographically material and the worse less "in your face", but that is still censorship and again who draws the line of what is acceptable or not? Hiding other individuals content through flagging is not freedom of speech, as you imply. That is censorship. Free speech is when you can leave your own comment with a piece of you mind. I am very much free speech, but not "selective free speech". As of now I lean towards that this element of the downvoting is better off removed.
(3) is the element that you are mainly referring to; the possibility to express once approval or in this case disproval. This I would absolutely like to keep. However, it should be separated from the two above. Those are tools for people who want to boost the value of their own opinion over the next person (referring to SP; a low SP individual have a smaller say than a high SP individual), or to express hatred, revenge or simply censor what they do not like (that one is no. 2. - again, that one is pure censorship).
Let me end with a question back to you. Do you think the current downvote function have no negative side to it, and that it cannot and is not being misused?
What you consider "trash" is another man's treasure.
It's on the blockchain ... your web interface is likely Steemit.com??
They have an algorithm that chooses to hide posts.
There are other interfaces to the steem blockchain. Would you prefer that there be one that Does Not hide flagged posts?
How would you like to see it go down as far as hiding or not hiding posts?
That is a valid point I was not aware of. It doesn’t change my concern about how this work in practice, but it does redirect the question of what to potentially change, from blockchain to the various UIs. Thanks for pointing that out.
My current stance would be yes, to not hide any comments or posts. Any filtering should be on the user end, like we have with NSFW. That would leave you with those who do not correctly label their content, either knowingly or by mistake. The latter would correct themselves by simply notifying them. The other group would be those who post with an intent of disrupting, shocking and offending. To block that a stronger tool is required. So far, I cannot see any such tool that also gives the power to infringe on peoples’ freedom of expression. Any individual could argue that they would accept the trad-off. For my part free speech must be absolute. Any compromises are a slippery slope, like we experience so many placed in the world today.
There are other ways to counter the effect offensive texts and memes. Why do we raise our children? To prepare them for the world, and the inevitable dangers and offences that lingers there.
My censorship concern related to the downvoting is put to rest by your new info. Any UI, like Steemit, is free to do whatever they see fit as far as I’m concerned. The free marked will handle any disagreements on that end.
Whether downvoting is a blessing from above, should be modified or is better of “voted out”, is something I still ponder.
Your saying well
You're not.
Well, well, well.
😎
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love & support @nonameslefttouse
Don't miss to follow and upvote on my blog @devkapoor423
Democracy has always been a number game around the world ! I reckon social media too is now no different. Ive come across quite a few posts highlighting censorship as one issue & one that makes a couple of them leave the platform! I'm quite new here to comment as I do not have a first hand experience however freedom of expression should not be trivial - just a thought !
Democracy does not exist. It's plutocracy.
Lool Yes I agree - 100% its a frustrating fact but it nice to see people realizing this & putting in baby steps to get out of the damn !
It's low because it wanted me to buy. And I did
I hope @Haejin and others go so I can watch people cry as value tanks and small users go to platforms like ONO
Yes, it would be great to see the abusive and whiner types leave this place and take their attitude problems to the competition. I'm looking forward to it. This place will be a lot better without them and their entitlement issues. Steemit would be left with more hard working individuals who appreciate the platform and all it has to offer and that would attract more people like that who care about their investments, and this place will eventually thrive. Success attracts more success so if we can get rid of the some of the trash here, I'm looking forward to it.
lol that idea makes me laugh. Oh no the people making the system bad are going to move their behavior to the competition, what will we do. I wonder if they will send them back.
I've been in management and other various leadership roles for quite a few years. Since many have to work to earn around here, they're not much different than employees. When disgruntled employees start throwing hissy fits and threatening to leave the establishment to go work for a competitor, the best thing to do is hold the door open for them. They won't ever change, because that's just how they are under any circumstance, so they'll take their negative attitudes with them, and that's good for business because you get rid of problems and give them to the competition.
Jerry did the same thing here in his post today. Good riddance! I'll hold the door open for him, no problem. He said he wants to leave, not us. He gave everyone here an ultimatum, but in reality, he gave himself that ultimatum. Now he can either stay true to his word, or stick around and be known as an even bigger bullshitter for making empty threats. He just keeps digging his hole deeper and deeper and he'll have to make some serious changes to be ever to climb out of it. Again, he made that choice. Not us.
That has to be the glue that holds the corruption together.
I know this is controversial, but I believe this is further evidence of the need for decriminalization of cannabis.
Hi there. I'm a busy guy. If you have something say, say it. These little pointless one liners you're leaving under my comments don't make much sense, unfortunately, so I don't really know what you're talking about and can't respond until things are clear.
@nonameslefttouse i have an opinion about this typical fluctuations about upvoting https://steemit.com/steemit/@nitindafda/my-opinion-about-steemit
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Your post has nothing to do with the discussion here. Flagged for shameless self promotion.
Oh Jerry, please stop sending your shit ideas to trending. You get flagged because you take advantage of people who are new to Steemit and create shit content.
You try to tell people that you are a stand up comic, a musician and a Steemit expert. You are none of these things. All you are is a failed get rich quick "guru" and a scam artist.
Let's hope we see you drop below 50 in the witness ranks soon.
That's cute, Jerry used one of his alt accounts to flag me.
i don't use this much but +1
Flagging helps stop the scammers and plagiarists from taking a cut of the reward pool away from the people who care. Yes this is the primary reason for doing it. I think that this is a good thing because the people trying to take an easy ride by stealing others works are not here to make Steemit a better place, a lot of these people just want to make a quick buck. This in itself is a bad thing because they are the ones who will sell Steem for any price. We need people holding Steem, this increases price as there's less being sold.
People who really believe in Steem do not sell all their Steem. FACT, they power up.
Removing flags will be a nightmare because more people (dolphins+whales) will start spending hundreds, even thousands on bid bots without having to worry about being flagged, this in turn will reduce the reward pool share for the little fish. Flagging trash increases funds for everyone else. If everyone flagged trash, it would make Steemit a better place for the people who care. Flagging also teaches newbies who are here for an easy ride to evolve, often they start posting legitimate content, which improves Steemit.
Everything you say seems to scream personal gain, I just think that you want flagging removed for your own gain, not to help everyone else.
Removing flagging is a terrible idea. I vote NO.
You’re a witness who is advocating removal of downvotes. That’s why you lost your top 20 slot.
I asked you if you were willing to consider if you were wrong about the idea. You said no. So I removed my vote. Then you started to act like maybe it was something you’d consider discussing.
Too late, man.
What do you mean?
The answer is obvious @inertia, you don't have a trending post with you shirtless on a video. That has to be it.
Your type of accounts are the exact reason why I could never support getting rid of flags.
You've plagiarised @blocktrades shamelessly, not only through the avatar (very silly to do) but also through copying and pasting their posts.
So to me your existence says one of two things.
Either choice is pathetic in my opinion.
So your existence, once again, Proofs the need for flags.
Congratulations in pissing in your own punch bowl.
Your last trending post wasn't stand up comedy Jerry. It was you having a shit rant about getting hated on because you suck your own dick.
And removing the ability to flag someone for receiving rewards that they don't deserve isn't censorship. It's the community determining what a person deserves for their content, which is perfect. The community should absolutely decide how rewards are distributed.
You should not be a recipient of any rewards. You are a scam artist and a terrible representative for Steemit. I was so happy to see you drop from witness rank 22 to 31 over the past week. That speaks volumes about what people think of you here.
Sooo... I took the time to read this angry rant, but couldn't muster the willpower to watch the video you made, you know, the so-called stand-up comedy. Do you realize that's on there forever now, as Steem isn't likely to budge even one fraction of an inch because of this lengthy threat of yours? Look, I was even willing to stay fairly neutral on your typical whale-behavior and bid-bot abuse in my angry rant about egotistical behavior on an blockchain that's designed to have maximum growth if everybody just acted with that community in mind instead of just their own pockets. If you're really the sport you say you are, if you even have the slightest sense of humor and if you have but a fraction of the concern for others you claim to have, you'll read, upvote, resteem and comment on this post: Sh*t-Post! Read At Own Risk! (Braincells Might Perish!). This might be a first small step toward redemption...
Now that we have that shameless plug of my own post, which I know you'll appreciate since plugging yourself is all you seem to do, out of the way let me say that you're not doing yourself or your brothers in arms any good by posting this. "Do as I say or I will leave" doesn't really work well on a community of people that found each-other mainly because of a shared longing for freedom. Most of us are mature enough to realize that there's no such thing as "absolute" freedom of any kind, not even the oral or verbal kind. When your freedom to say what you want hinders my freedom to do the same, you're actually not advocating freedom, you're advocating hierarchy. You're right that one negative experience leaves a bigger impression than 10 positive ones, but that's life my friend and goes for a lot more than just upvotes or flags.
This is also the reason why almost all of us are very hesitant to use that flag-option: we know how it must feel. I never ever flagged anyone in all 3 months I've been active here and The Lord (Jerry?) knows I've seen a lot of crap that doesn't deserve the insane earnings they accumulated. Oh wait... I did flag someone once: I flagged myself just as a fun experiment, to see what it does.
What I'm trying to say here is that "normal" posts don't get flagged under normal circumstances. From what I've seen it's mostly comments that fall in the "beggar" category or the "spam" category being downvoted by spam-bots or blatant copying by the (in)famous cheetah bot, like "I like this post a lot! I upvoted it too! Can you please upvote and follow me too?" copy-pasted in 100 posts. If those users used that energy to make a picture of the street they live in and tell a funny anekdote on what happened there yesterday, they would make the same small amount of money if their obvious free-ride comments were being left alone. They would even have a chance at the occasional massive upvotes if they strike gold with a particularly beautiful photograph or funny text. Then they would be starting with relative crap, but getting better over time.
You really have to do something really insulting, harmful to the blockchain or otherwise do something so bad, that people get over that initial hesitance and actually flag your post. That's my experience until now and I like it that way. Sure it's not perfect and something needs to be done about the misuse of economical power that now fills the Trending page with mediocrity. Something has to be done about the many well intending communities that require the use of a specific tag to gain the benefits they offer. Let's say I write a post, a good one about something interesting, but I tag it with #ocd-resteem, #steemstem, #msp-whatever, #steemrepo.... how can any new potential users ever find the post by searching on the actual topic of the post? These are things worth talking about, ranting about even. But not this, Jerry, not this.
The “lost boy” look is totally appropriate, but doesn’t help your case @jerrybanfield.
You got -$30 flags. You still have $500+ pending payout.
Do we need authors who leave after first flag? I get over -$200 flag once and I'm still here.
Removing flags will destroy Steem. Can you imagine how much spam is on Steem now? Without flags, there will be even more spam!
Steemcleaners & Spaminator & mack-bot are protecting Steem from spam. They are downvoting mostly minnows, because minnows create most of spam!
Market is down because of bitcoin, not because of downvoting. Whole crypto market is down, not only STEEM!
I think @steemit should be the only account aloud to fly because people like themarkymark abuse the power they have I mean I'm on a blacklist for making meme's now that's crazy
@themarkmark is free to do anything with his stake, you can do anything with your stake too.
Lots of mistakes in the post Jerry. First of all, the price of steem is down because crypto is in a bear cycle and no crypto currency has been able to separate itself from the entire field. WHen bitcoin is bear, the whole sphere is bear. The price of steem is a refelction of this, not downvoting.
Second, how you relate downvoting with racism is beyond me.
Third, when someone spouts off nonsense, spam and steals other peoples content, it deserves to be downvoted and I would go one step further as to limit that user's ability to post. There is no need for a lot of the garbage posts that we see on the platform and the users doing this only have their self-interest in mind. By limiting their access to self promotion we are making a positive attempt to modify this behavior.
Correct @jasonshick. Proof of brain requires the ability to down vote.
@jasonshick reach for an upvote much?
From who, you?
You just keep going with your healthy eating unless you actually have something to add or contribute.
fourth even if you downvote the post is still there other platforms would delete it
WHat about @haejin. I think he stopped posting here on crypto after a witch hunt. U can choose to ignore it. But seriously there was a major element of racism. Haejin has hundreds of dedicated followers and it was great to get free advise here. He literally got smoked out. It's unfair man!
Haejin was here to rape the reward pool and nothing else. If you look at the posts by people who analysed his "advice" you'd see that a tiny percentage of his predictions were accurate.
Only the gullible followed him, and I feel sorry for anyone who followed his investment advice. How many times did you see him communicate what he was actually investing in? Never.
He posted 10 times a day to receive the maximum possible 100% upvotes from ranchorelaxo. That's all it was. There was never any real advice in the posts. It was all bullshit.
Im not too sure. I followed him for over two weeks and he was on track. Not sure what he's advising right now. Couple of predictions went really well for me. He did say SBD will go to the moon before he quit here. .....Which didn't sort of happen coz bitcoin crashed after that. I'd love to know what he'd be saying now. It was just entertaining.. Raping rewards pool - i guess we cannot control everyone's behaviour here.
He left to start a trading analysis subscription site. I’m sure he’d be happy to take your money.
lol...i was happy reading it for nothing here...
he is still actively posting. He has gone nowhere. @berniesanders is just not advertising the guys presence any more. go to his page, If you were a fan or a follower you would know he is still here and has gone nowhere.
He has two pictures and his disclaimer up about Open Text Corp. (OTEX) Analysis - - - Jerry is 100% wrong about flags.. There were more than two post that tracked and showed his guess percentages. it was around 14% correct over a two month study I believe. If you made money during a two week stretch, it was during a two week stretch when everything was going up.
wow. haejin was only here for himself. he made probably millions and never even bothered to throw any of his supporters a scrap. How anyone would follow that guy is beyond me.
Only idiot follow haejin.
delete
That was quite the delusional story you came up with. I needed a good laugh. Keep drinking the funny Kool-aid
delete
I think he's not wrong to separate the value of steem from the bear market issue, since the down tend says nothing about the intrinsic value of steem. markets often behave in a way that exposes powerful players to opportunities thought herding a crowd a certain way. an indication that an asset is undervalued is when accumulation of it occurs as it priced down. I don't see it in steem and it makes me worry about the platform. I hope to see STEEm as being more the a mechanism of wealth transfer in dollars. I think that deploying censorship is a sure wat to ATTRACT sceamers and bad actors, since they will rush to missuse it. So I disagree with you
If you think flags are suppressing the USD value of STEEM - then I've got a DASH node I'll trade for your account.
This post has received a 6.5 % upvote from @boomerang.
@boomerang i studied about steemit and i have an opinion about it. https://steemit.com/steemit/@nitindafda/my-opinion-about-steemit
You need to be on the Qora blockchain. You can post all you want, no one can downvote, you can receive tips for your work. It's actually looking for a new Development Team Jerry, so you could basically take it over and do all teh things on your very own chain.
See ya!
Can you share a link here to that blockchain? Qora or Quora? Do you have to deposit money into it before tipping? I have never put money in Steemit and I like that. Other websites may require input before output of Bitcoin, money, or whatever.
http://qorablock.com/index/main.html
It's basically a ded chain waiting to be continued by a new team. Jerry and his crack team could dominate the entire chain all for themselves! It could become the greatest story in crypto if Jerry just bought himself a Dev team to pick up where the others left off. It's so cheap too, Jerry could pump that shitcoin to incredible heights and get so rich that he leaves crypto entirely (you're starting to see my plan unfold now aren't you)!
Here's what a "real" decentralized blog looks like : http://node2.qora.org:9090/tuckfheman
Maybe we should and beat Jerry to it.
I tried years ago, then Dan said he could make a better one, then Dan made Steem, now here we are.
Good. That is good. Steem is the best, currently.
steem is down because Bitcoin is down. Pretty much the whole market. Getting rid of downvotes would only make our already trash trending page even worse. I would literally just post a picture of my dogs shit and bot vote it to the top. That is just fucking stupid.
Use Jerry's shitty bot to upvote it when you do
As stupid as it is, the bot are to be blamed.
In fact, am really tired and bewildered when it comes to who really is to blame. The bots helps promote post and that doesn't mean people should upvote the posts. Just like this post, it's been promoted using bit bots otherwise, we wouldn't see it.
But if you don't like a post, it should be completely ignored instead of flagging because I have seen and noticing so many persons having time to downvote but have not time to upvote, that rubbish. As long as people cannot post freely here without getting flagged or Downvoted, there will still be a fundamental problem.
If flagging should not be completely removed, it can be censored to for every user with a certain reputation and above to have same downvoting Power no matter your steem Power. And no account should have the ability to Downvote more than twice in 6days. That will help
I am sure that bitcoin price dropping has an impact.
Ultimately, downvotes are nothing.
The real issue is how votes are weighted... I understand the motivation to keep people vested in the platform, but when you can get 10 votes as .001, and anothers 2% vote is .02, that is too massive of a disparity.
See some people get 50 votes and 150$, while others get maybe 2 cents for 10-15 votes. Thats a hard mental barrier for people to overcome.
Far worse than the impact of someone reading what was written and voting it down because they disagree.
crypto currency is not always stable so wrong prediction or comment on steem is not right
Steam is the mirror of the future. This is a boon for writers in the future. Steam gives the authors the opportunity to show their talents. steem market again recover and steem will be top 10 cryptocurrency in coin market cap.
well said. i explained that why bitcoin downfall ?
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@nitindafda/bitcoin-price-steady-above-usd6k-despite-bithumb-hack
Hilarious and shameless promotion of plagiarised material.
I dunno man. I don’t think this is affecting the current price as much as you think it is. Pardon me for saying it, but I think you think that it’s affecting price that much because the looming threat of downvotes affects people in your tier. I personally don’t know a single person in the 59ish rep and under range in my communities who has ever been downvoted or even thinks about the possibility.
Those of us who have Blockfolios loaded with alts can see that all altcoins have taken a heavy beating in the past couple months, because the price fluctuations of all cryptos that aren’t Bitcoin are basically just spillover from what’s happening with Bitcoin. Ultimately, not enough people know about STEEM’s true potential and until that changes it will be coupled in public perception with Bitcoin and will follow the rest of the market’s fluctuations. Either cryptos in general will have to recover in the market, or STEEM needs to be removed from the crypto market’s fluctuations altogether. As it stands, few crypto investors know much about Steemit. I’m part of a big group chat with about 25 serious crypto investors and when I brought it up with them nobody even really knew what I was talking about, or knew anything about STEEM at all.
haha, go poke a whale a few times...they will be happy to downvote you.
I’ve been pretty blunt to a few whales when I thought they were acting like bullies or that they were acting out of line and none of them have ever actually downvoted me for it. But I also don’t go running my mouth off to people where it’s not warranted in general in life. I try to keep my behavior online in tune with my real life values. But maybe I shouldn’t jinx it and say it’ll never happen because that’s just asking for someone to get me to make a point...
Don't you think the flags were a result of the offensive content of that post? And why are you still making videos naked?
Without the downvotes, this place will turn into a clusterfuck of reward pool abuse.
You lost your top 20 position because of the content of that "standup comedy", it had nothing to do with the downvotes issue and it happened before that. Haven't you read the comments on that post from your main whale supporters who pulled their vote for you?
Definitely not by sucking ourselves off then paying hundreds to promote steem and spine surgery
Jerry's kids takes on a whole new meaning now.
Fosho - LOL!
bitcoin market is down just have patient it wil recover.
If you hold on it could go to zero, will lose everything.
In theory we’ve all made sure not to invest more than we can afford to lose... right?
this is the we have to support crypto market
steem is the best platform you should be patient or you sell and wil cry later same like dash you did..
yeah you are right brother @bitcoincompany
i agree with you
You are absolutely right @bitcoincompany
I couldn’t imagine Jerry bs if we had no flags. Think he is bad now, imagine him without the ability to flag.
Most flags are because someone cares. Not all but most.
yeahh. We must to pay curator reward for flags. People who flagging bad content get nothing.
Steemit is still far from perfection but still way ahead on any blockchain available in coinmarket. Flagging really traumatized people and leaving away the platform. Hope it can resolves in the future. Still watching your video Jerry. You made a good point of view. Downvoting is more powerful than upvoting likewise that if I punch you in the face will make us enemy for century which you will remember more than the 10 times for all that I did good things to you. I remember the saying, Only for one bad thing we forget the 10 good things of that person did.
This is child mentality. Adults don't make such a big deal out of it and go to resolve it.
that is how it works. we remember the bad more than the good. like some of the children today for only minor mistakes of their parents they are neglecting all the years that happened
Some wrongs can never be righted. Minor offenses happen every day in life and are forgotten soon after. Down voting is a flag, it may or may not cause a lot of financial pain, but if a person is spamming, scamming, plagiarizing, or hating on, then that flag is deserved. It is not as he portrays censorship. All post are readable. Nothing goes away. I have seen art works on steemit with the NSFW label, the artist do know how to use it and are cautious about offending people. I have seen comedy post use it because of language. If a person does not use it do you want your children to look over your shoulders and see a man having sex with a man or woman or monkey or himself? That is one of the reasons also for flags. You want a guy that did that video to be able to post whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the community? Sorry, I hope that day never comes.
Do you think he really cares about steemit? He cares about it so much that he is just so overwhelmed that he has responded to zero comments in the last 6 days. Jerry cares about one thing and one thing only, his own pocket book and playing pocket pool with himself.
You are saying well
I'm able to see your comments under every trending posts. Do you think people can simply copy-paste contents and be rewarded? In my opinion plagiarists and those who never upvote others should get flagged.
Hi Jerry, good post.
This Knight knows a couple of great bloggers who stopped posting altogether due to a single, unwarranted 'downvote'. When questioned, the downvoter just replied 'toughen up, it is just part of the game.'
Unfortunately people who have worked hard, researching, drafting, reviewing, publishing don't see it as a game and the downvote really hurts.
This Knight is hoping that SMTs will solve this problem. Communities can enjoy and thrive in their own currency, nullifying the downvote of the Steem Whale. This being said - delays in business tend to mean problems.
This Knight is concerned that SMTs are not possible on the STEEM blockchain. Perhaps others are feeling the same and leaving accordingly - so this could be another reason for the sinking STEEM price. Some clarification around this from the powers that be would be nice.
Good day to you.
SK
I don't normally comment on threads that I don't care for much, however, this comment caught my eye for a number of reasons, one of them being it is proactive, constructive and definitely from a person who believes in the power of Steem.
Probably the only comment that I will upvote and comment on in any of these types of posts and threads.
Fully understand and agree with your attitude and approach to things.
Jack
I am fairly new to Steemit, wrote a few articles about gaming so far. Trying to get deeper in the community. I have seen some downvoting ect... and I can not completely agree with your point. I see tons of stolen pictures... non-stop spam comments... bad sourcing... the whole nine and I think that flagging and removing the monetary incentive to just copy paste and post for dollars everyday is a good way to thwart Steemit from being over run by bots and abusers.
Now sometimes I do see content flagged by some of the more wealthy Steemit holders for reasons that do not exactly fall into plagiarism, or spam... but rather just bad content or abusing the system. like making 6 to 10 posts a day with a picture and 4 sentences about a candle stick graph... no real content and then use bots and delegation to make 100s of dollars per post. I also agree with the people that flag these posts... the obvious abuse of the system and draining the reward pool.. I think this discourages people more the occasional flag.. it certainly does personally. I try to write in depth articles that I see get out performed everyday by a sentence and a meme..
I think flagging is necessary and most witnesses do a good job. (the ones I know) like @themarkymark awesome guy.
No one owes you witness votes. You're not owed $500, you're not owed upvotes, you're not owed anything at all on this platform or this planet.
I think there is one thing that he is owed - - - A straight jacket.
It is a good time to buy Steem while the price is low.
@allmonitors I bought it now
Good! Power it up and if you have more spare money do it again :)
Thanks for your encouragement.
i am buying it in every deep...
Cheers!
Remove flagging you mean so you can buy expensive bids from major bidbots and upvote yourself to over $1000 every day without consequence. No. Look at the votes on your post, people do not agree with you.
No. Steem is low because the market is low. Can't expect Steem to stay up when the cryptomarket is going through an abusive relationship with banks, legal restrictions, and etc...
I've been hit with hate flagging, and my wife has been hit too. It is something that we have worked through. User retention is compounded by the flagging. No doubt. I however don't see the price being affected in this current market by flagging.
Here is a graph that I created of Total Steem Supply and Liquid Steem Supply (STEEM not in SP). It tells me that people are still buying up STEEM to store into SP. Overall, there is less available Liquid STEEM than there was back in February. I think the real culprit of low price is bitcoin dominance. When it tanks, it takes everyone with it.
It doesn't help that STEEM and SBD have limited listings on exchanges. Just look at SBD. There is no major multilingual exchange that lists SBD and yet SBD is a major avenue for new money into Steemit. Steemit is literally excluding people of other languages from participating (at least the ones that are willing to invest in SP). Even the number of exchanges that STEEM is listed on is severely deficient compared to other coins in the top 50. It doesn't make sense to me that an explanation for a low currency price is due to downvoting. Bottom line is STEEM currency is a currency yet Steemit Inc doesn't treat it like a currency. If STEEM is not made available everywhere in every language, people won't consider it a currency and they won't use it. The flag issue is not the reason. To fix STEEM price, Steemit Inc needs to treat STEEM as a currency. It is not a "Field of Dreams" where they "Build it and They Will Come".
I have a solution (although not perfect one), that can influence changes. I have many users willing to cast Witness votes for real change instead of voting for popularity. It is impressive the amount of voting power we have been able to get so far. I encourage everyone to join my effort.
Best YouTube comment of 2018
I saw that one earlier today, made me chuckle.
Funny.
Steem won't fail. It will surely rise again! I believe
you are very right
I hope so. I do wonder if users have a role to play than real time investors. If actually content creators are important to the blockchain, then everyone collective efforts are needed and definitely there isn't any need to flag or downvote
Steem will fail due to bad thirdparty clients and stupid apps.
I think downvotes have their place. In fact, I think they're not used nearly enough. With that said, I wish people would be careful when using them because you're right, a $20 downvote stirs up more negative emotions than does a $200 upvote stirs up positive emotions. Flags hurt a lot (especially when undeserved) and one big downvote can make a person want to stop posting. I've seen it happen first hand.
But, if someone is calling people names or abusing the system, they deserve to be flagged. If they decide to stop posting or sell their Steem, so be it. We don't want them here.
I think this is a very unfair way to talk about @steemcleaners. You make it sound like they're out to downvote new authors just because they're posting low-quality stuff. They don't downvote because of low-quality. @steemcleaners are working their tails off to fight plagiarism, spam, and abuse. That stuff doesn't have a place here on Steem.
I agree with you that they let some of the most obvious forms of abuse slide. With that said, they're in a tough position. They're not here to be the judge of what's good and bad content. Sure, they probably think @haijin is the biggest abuser on the platform but is it their place to decide that? I'm not sure. It's a slippery slope and there's a lot of subjectivity that goes into making decisions like that.
This whole letting abuse slide thing was especially true in the earlier (pre-jerrybanfield) days of Steem. If you found a minnow posting an obviously-plagiarized post, they'd get flagged. But if the same thing was done by a Steem witness/whale/friend of a whale, @steemcleaners wouldn't do anything.
I happen to like what Steemcleaners do and fully support them and any witness that I see that are doing their best to support them as well.
If not for Steemcleaners we would have so much spam and plagiarized content out there and they would be just abuse things and just keep sending their SBD and Steem out and hardly investing time or effort.
Since you like to allude to different entities such as @steemcleaners, @berniesanders, etc. in your post so much, I fixed it to better match what you were afraid to type.
People have already said this, so I won't be bothering putting this on @dmania.
For the record, I find it highly offensive the way you described @steemcleaners because I happen to be one of the multitudes of Steemians who volunteer their time to help the main cleaners to keep the abusers at bay.
Just remember someone else writes Jerry's posts. So who knows, who it is that thinks what was written here?
Keep up the great work @enforcer48! And thank you for giving a shit.
If saying "you're right about flagging" is what it takes to make you power down and leave, the Church of Piglet is willing to do so and agree with everything you say on the subject.
For a small fee, we'll even call you a Steemit Martyr after you're gone, among the other things we'll call you.
Censorship is always bullying! The flag is the tool of oppression for the Steemit oligarchy. Those with the power can oppress the minnow caste. Because there is a financial hit, and loss of potential income, only trouble can come from this. First, it ghettoizes the community, secondly it can be a tool of punishment for political or religious views or personal gripes, third, it is dangerous! Rival groups can engage in flagging warfare, and punish a group's income or target an individual. This can spill out into the real world with violence, turf wars or personal gripes that can destroy relationships or cause violence and misery over money. There is a world of trouble the flag causes. NO GOOD CAN COME FROM IT! The flag has got to go. And no other type of thumbs down or tool of punishment. The way to deal with miscreant members is to address the issues with the truth in comments to them. Let the truth work. Let freedom work because we all know how oligarchs do, and it isn't pretty.The flag is the FLAG OF OPPRESSION of the ruling class oligarchy in Steemit. I'm not going to stick around for the handing out of pitchforks and torches.
If the flag were eliminated everything would change for the better. Members would no longer feel intimidated with warnings and threats. True liberty would exist. The miscreants would be addressed as to the errors by people who value the truth and righteousness. Not only would good content rise to the top but so too would the truth. Members would feel free to speak their mind but knowing full well the only punishment they face is the public record of the criticism of the crowd (this is sufficient), investors would feel more secure in their financial future, and member retention would go up.
Facebook is failing because people are fed up with having their information compromised, and the ghettoizing and marginalizing of its members. And there is also the issue of admitted shadow banning and outright censoring of its members. I left facebook for these very reasons. That is why I came to Steemit. But now I find Steemit is just as bad. What a disappointment! It's bad enough on facebook but on Steemit you actually hurt people financially! And it can be a lot of money. And it can spill over into real life in the form of violence. Give an infant a hammer and everything begins to look like a nail. The flagging abuse will be far worse and any actual abuse it gives lip service to be preventing.
If the flag were removed ALL of facebook, youtube and Soundcloud would come over to Steemit. This would be the biggest declaration of liberty the world has ever seen. Zuckerberg would soil his pants. Lust for greed and power are at the heart of the flag which is its tool for oppression. The top at Steemit are delusional, and the flag is suicide for the Steemit platform. As long as the flag stays Steemit is doomed to failure. And your investments are at risk. How many hours of your time have you invested. The flag is the elephant in the room. It is the stumbling block to success for the platform. It will be its Achilles heel.
Investors beware! Personally, I will not invest a penny of my own money in Steem. If they embraced liberty, and remove the flag...I'm all in.
Censorship can NEVER be justified. Censorship is always COWARDICE of the truth. LET THE TRUTH RISE TO THE TOP
Remove the flag of oppression from Steemit or fail just like the rest.
Can you tell I'm disappointed.
None of the "money" made on a post belongs to the poster until the 7-day window closes. A flag does not take away anything from the poster.......UNLESS.....that greedy fucker bought votes.......cost of advertising. The same thing happens when I set my DVR to record without commercials or I get up to piss while the commercials play.
NO GOOD can come from this flag. There is NO legitimate justification for its existence. If you get flagged by someone with a high reputation it is not equal to someone with a low score. The flag is problematic in so many ways. Just forget the idea once and for all. Get over it already. It is just a power trip for those who like to hurt. It is a bad thing, A VERY bad thing.
Jerry leaving would "Make Steem Great Again"
He just needs to be informed.
He knows, it is users like him that make video's on YouTube bringing people here with a turnkey way to scam the system, that requires we will always need flags.
He isn't known as Scamfield for just any reason.
And anyone blind to his tactics needs to go too, we have enough sheep to deal with, without adding stupid sheep.
Bots and the like are technical issues. They should be handled with a technical solution. The flag only complicates that issue. Nothing good can ever come from the flag.
Yes you are 100% right, I should be allowed to come to your post leave comments with pictures of x sucking x and pictures of dead bodies, videos of people hanging themselves, be allowed to call you all kinds of names accuse you of the most heinous crimes, and you should have absolutely no right to tell me what I can post on your post. There are really NO legitimate justification for you to complain about me or anyone else who feels like calling you an idiotic moron or anything like that.
I have no clue if you are serious about wanting the flag to go away, my comment was not serious it was a response to show what could happen without the flag.
The thing about that is I can report violation of the law to law enforcement. I can provide the evidence for a legal case. The person that posts illegal material takes the risk of arrest and conviction for their crime. The flag puts law enforcement in the hands of the unqualified. troll, malcontents or team flaggers. Your concerns have no merit. If it happens to you IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to inform LAW ENFORCEMENT! If it is less than a violation of the law you can deal with it by applying the truth. And therein is the opportunity for the truth to rise to the top. If a member shows his backside will he get many upvotes? Unless you upvote them.
Okay cherry pick time. In a trial by jury, all 12 members are unqualified to make a judgement call as they are not law enforcement personnel. If the only people that are qualified to make a judgement call are law enforcement So we should do away with trial by jury?
If you see a crime taking place IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY as a human to aid the person being injured, and then inform LAW ENFORCEMENT! If you can do something and then abdicate the responsibility of doing something to someone else because it is not your job, then you become part of the problem.
last cherry pick: So some guy in Iraq, steals an image you posted and is using it to make a shit load of money. What Law Enforcement are you going to call? What Legal system are you going to use?
The down vote flag is a needed and necessary part of steemit, there are groups and people that help when it is abused.
So hell with the law?...just put law enforcement in the hands of trolls, spammers, team flaggers and the very people who ARE the miscreants. What could go wrong? An abuse alert with no power to steal might be a good option. I am not sure which law enforcement you call for this. That is an excellent question. My point is that it is not our job to be cops. Law enforcement is something the administrators need to address. Why not have a button that alerts the administrators to a problem.
On Steemit there is no fair hearing, no redress of grievance, no violations of guidelines to cite, no judicial oversight, no due process whatsoever. Steemit is mob rule by would be tyrants, trolls, racists, malcontents and miscreants. I don't think that the flag is an appropriate solution to a law enforcement problem.
Abusers will not take down the platform. Censorship will.
A down vote is not censorship. It is someone voicing their opinion, exercising their right to say I disagree. All down votes can be countered with upvotes. All greyed out material can with in the 7 days of post issuance can be reversed. After 7 days, it is the voice of the people/person that stood. The opinion that mattered. Not the opinion of the person that is screaming censorship. Because if others agreed they could easily get together their own little group and vote it back to visibility.
That being said, a down vote should not be used for a difference of opinion. The people that use them in that manner are the ones that can not accept that someone sees the world different than they do.
It is censorship by any other name.
And with article having a shelf-life of about 30 seconds, it would be difficult to rally for a defense.
What about your right to face your accuser? Where is any due process?
That comment should win a noble price. I'm all with you @stephenthorburn
The pall would lift if the flag were removed. If an accusation is made in a comment, it should face scrutiny. There is no accounting to a violation of a guideline when the flag is employed. No accountability for the accuser. Steemit will become a place where the trolls have more power than content producers. Members will flee. investments will tank. THE FLAG PUTS EVERYONES INVESTMENTS AT RISK. Apparently there is little farseeing among the administrators. They don't see their investment at stake because they are consumed with unreasoned fear and lust for power. It gives the trolls the power and the elite oligarchy even more. NO GOOD CAN COME FROM THE FLAG!
Censorship is cowardice of the truth.
delete
Consider this very post. It is at the time of this comment is at $283. If a hundred high ranking people flagged it right now what would be the earnings loss and the hit to potential earnings ability? I wonder if anyone could even measure the harm done. And the troll walks away gloating at your demise. What a wonderful platform this flag creates.
It might help if you left.
I think that flagging a post that had several hundreds SBD in rewards is to be considered curation, not censorship.
In our local elections, in addition to voting for a party, we used to have the possibility to both upvote and downvote individuals. In order to "protect" individuals, the possibility to downvote was removed. Who benefits? That's the most well-known politicians, those who get most media time, those who are most noisy and get heard the most. Earlier they would get the most upvotes and a fair share of downvotes. Now they only get the most upvotes.
The same applies to Steem. I can understand that it may be unfair that a novice making his first low-quality post gets flagged, but it's totally reasonable that someone that gets a three-digit reward on a post also gets a fair share of downvotes.
I think flagging could be better scaled if the influence level of the account flagging was taken into account as well as the proportion of upvotes to down votes. This way a post with a lot of community support even from small accounts couldn't be hurt as much by one whale. The algorithm could also greatly limit the upvote influence value of accounts with less than 20 SP so it would be harder to game the system by someone who controls hundreds of accounts with little or no SP.
fuck you jerry. Sell all your steem and go scam somewhere else
This is certainly very, very bad news for those of us who wanted STEEMIT to thrive and live up to our most optimistic expectations. Although the title is exaggerated and click-baity the truth is there is a lot of ill will, bullying and demagoguery in this space and much of it does stem from the abuse of the flagging mechanism.
Just as sure as being able to reward each other brings out the best in people, the power to punish brings out the worst. Unchecked it can become like the Milgram experiment where students were willing to shock each other nearly to death or prison situations where normally mild mannered people can become monsters.
And I know what he means by being intimidated into silence by the worst of it. Even if you're not the one being attacked you hesitate to speak up forcefully to save your own bacon.
I think globally we are all on the prison-planet here and viciousness can break out at any moment among the (peasant) inmates due to their chronic frustration. Even though friendliness feels good and animosity feels terrible, the perverse human mind often trends towards jealousy, anger, violence and hatred. Look how it comes up in waves and becomes self-perpetuating!
Is it really that hard to be civil to one another? Why live like crabs in a bucket? All the crabs could escape easily, down to the last one simply by lending a claw and helping each other but usually they prefer to pull each others' legs and kick at those who are below.
It's not fun to spoil people's day. It's twisted, bent, perverse. They really don't deserve it. Be your own cop, police yourself.
There is hardly any significant flagging in the trending page:
https://steem-sincerity.dapptools.info/trending-analysis
This view clearly shows where there are any flags worth more than $5.
To be honest, as a vegan I feel pressure to not speak freely, and speaking freely is exactly how I built my audience on Youtube. You know what would happen to me on Steem right now if I made a Vegan Gains type video sledging another DTuber?
Maybe people will be forced to talk with some humility. Terrible thought.
You are right. People have to become adults and grow up. We don't need YouTube drama on Steemit
That's the problem. No one posts freely on steemit.
I think one can speak very freely here. Just don't be a jerk and you'll be fine.
Why is it necessary to sledge someone?
I'm serious... I can disagree with someone's point of view. as I'm doing right now, I can tell you that I believe that there is a way to have a healthy discourse, to revise one's convictions, invite someone to discuss.
The fact that you bring out vegan gains to this example of yours speaks volumes. Vegan Gains is this young kid who seems to lose his mind and makes physical threats.
This is the same dude that got youtube famous for calling women opportunistic hoes who get pregnant on purpose to lock in some income. This is the guy you want to model content after?
Listen if you want to talk about things you believe in, how terrible meat is, go for it... 100% I happen to even agree with the vegan philosophy.
If the argument is... "OH BUT I WANT TO HATE, BE BIGOTED, DISRESPECTFUL... BUT IM AFRAID OF FLAGS" - that's how the real world works.
I can't walk up to a stranger call him an asshole and expect him to smile back at me.
I'm one of those new users that is being flagged! I didn't invest, but rather started an account for free. I have brought over 5 of my friends to try out steemit. However my last post was flagged by bots from the Steemit Defence League. Some great users have created counter bots, to combat the SDL. However I'm really hesitant to post again to keep getting downvoted , really frustrating since I did nothing wrong. Plus the post keeps getting downvoted. You can see it all on my last post. I hope I can over come this, but it also might lead to me leaving Steemit. Sucks!
I wouldn’t worry much about it in your particular case! Trolls are a fact of life, case in point the “SDL.” Flags are still a relevant, useful & needed part of the system though.
In your case, the SDL members flagging you have only kept .1 SP each it looks like! The negative votes are no more than symbolic and doing you no real harm. Don’t let it chase you off!
If you have not given any retaliatory flags to them, file a report with @steemcleaners, and they will investigate, results can vary from nothing, (agreeing with the flag) to putting the offending account on a blacklist that get downvoted everytime it post. If you have retaliatory flagged them, they will do nothing.
The only question I have is: Is that a real baby?
my question is if he leaves can it be golos i need my golos to get pumped...
I was thinking exactly the same thing....
Yes, maybe a rent-a-baby ?
I too saw many posts with hate speech, but I was afraid to flag them when I saw the steem-power of the guy who was writing the comment. People with lots of steempower can act like tyrants here.
Yes, it actually has the opposite effect of its intended purpose. Yep it is tyrant mentality. So sad they don't realize it is financial suicide to their investments. I guess the lust for power is greater than the lust for wealth.
I think our current witnesses have also the fear of losing power and control and giving power away. ''Before I lose my power I kill everyone first'' kind of mentality...
Yep! That's it. Its about power to inflict harm to those who disagree. It is shameful. It is suicidal to their investment. Apparently the lust for power is stronger than the lust for money.
I'm with you @jerrybanfield . Start your own democratic steemit. I'm the first one to join you!!! This here is financial dictatorship!!!
I would call it a democratic oligarchy. Steemit is lawless and oppresses without legal remedy or accountability for the oppressor caste. There is no legal remedy for loss of income and income potential, neither is there compensation for legal claims. Who gets sued if violence erupts between rivals on the outside? The flag has so many problems associated with it. So many negatives. Why do they defend it. Has it become a lust for power. It will...you can be sure of that. Give a child a hammer and soon everything looks like a nail.
Same as Jerry in the beginning, I was so so stoked about steemit. I would tell everyone about this new social media platform, that has free speech, is run by the community, owned by the community and has the potential to help free humanity from the current central-banking-system and other powerful cooperations. I was so happy about this platform.
What we can witness now is @jerrybanfield being cyber-bullied for speaking his opinion. All what Jerry did was saying things that questions the decisions of current witnesses. For that he is being bullied away from this platform.
2 Questions:
Is it disallowed on steemit to ask for the removal of the flag?
Will every post on the trending page that asks for the removal of the flag systematically being down-voted from witnesses?
That steemit is not a democratic place, is obvious if we look at the fact that this post have over 1000 upvotes but only a 200 downvotes, which means more people want the flag removed.
I actually almost cried today, seeing that people can get bullied on steemit in that way. I can't promote that platform from my heart anymore.
There is another huge problem with downvotes. Because of downvotes there is no controversial discussion possible on steemit!! On facebook all the likes and dislikes will influence the ranking of the post. This will lead to huge and healthy discussions about controversial topics. So maybe we can allow downvotes, but the vote of like and dislike should be combined when it comes to ranking. Anyways the real problem is that the people with the most money have the most influence here. Like in a Central-Banking-System. The Top 20 witnesses should represent the community. All votes for witnesses should be equal of worth!!!
Yes, controversial discussions tend to decline on Steemit, that is when compared to some of the debates I've been in on Facebook around 2010, eight years ago, to some extent it seems, maybe, and we see debates on YouTube, and especially on Twitter. It seems, to some extent, that Steemit discourages anything that can produce consequences, flags, downvotes, less money, or whatever. I am not too sure if this is totally true and I am not sure if this is the fault of Steemit or if there are better alternatives to all of this or not. I like the competition of Steemit. We make money on Steemit. I try to talk about controversial things on Steemit. This thread is controversial for example.
Yep. no discussion. Just shadow banning on a massive scale. I thought Zuckerberg was bad and came here to flee the shadow banning. Sad to find out that it is far worse over here.
There is no shadowbanning on Steem front ends, as far as I'm aware. And definitely nothing of the sort in Steem itself.
I respectfully disagree. Why does it say "hidden" because of low reputation. It is worse than shadow banning because you take a financial hit on top of the insult.Shadow banning by any other name is the same. You are made invisible...same thing. Shadow banning is a bad thing and people are leaving facebook in droves on account of it. Is this where you would like to see Steemit head?
Stephen, I'm sure you mean well, but please explain to me how inconveniencing someone with an extra click equals shadow banning.
If I was to get flagged to "hidden" all you would have to do is click show and my comment would be revealed.
How is this equal or worse than shadow banning?
For context, when someone is shadow banned, that person is not aware that he/she is being censored. This means that he/she keeps on posting completely convinced interaction has dropped, or that no one really cares about the content.
If I get flagged to hidden, I'm also aware of it.
So the two main elements needed to make that connection don't seem present, so again... I know you mean well, but I don't see how you've made this particular connection.
Regarding some of your thoughts on bullying... I agree with some. I think if you are to bring some balance to the conversation it will be from that angle and not this forced analogy you are weaving.
I say this respectfully.
Thank you for your excellent social manners. Tell me what makes the flag good? Why do you favor it?
There are times when it has been very useful to fight back things like child pornography, pyramid schemes, and many other activities that have absolutely no place in a healthy community.
So, no doubt, it should not be the default response to disagreements for sure. I think that is kind of a cultural challenge, something all of us should attempt to do our part to shift.
delete
On facebook you are bullied and shadow banned. On Steemit you are bullied and shadow banned while having your wallet fleeced. Steemit is worse.
They should not try to sweep miscreance under the rug thinking it will go away. Defiance to evil is service to God. Allowing the truth to rise to the top is the cure for miscreant behaviors. Address the evil head on. In Steemit that can never occur. Liberty works if we let it. Let the truth rise to the top. Fear clouds reason.
George Orwell was always right.
Farm of Animals (Original title: Animal Farm) is a dystopian fable by George Orwell, published in 1945. Contents is the collection of animals of an English farm against the rule of their human owner, who neglected and exploits them. After initial successes and beginning prosperity, the pigs take over more and more the leadership and eventually build a tyranny that is worse than the one who wanted to shake off the animals.
I translated it with google, so it's a bad translation
Excellent point!
Facebook removes controversial things including my Hitler photo.