The Hive
This same mentality repeats itself again and again, only the name of the person changes. Rape is a very serious charge, if you are going to accuse someone of rape, You better make sure its true. Rape seems to be the word decided upon to start a campaign of sorts, Somehow someone managed to figure out a way to get delegation by claiming rape happened. So a bunch of nonsense built up around it. I would like to take a look at this.
My understanding of the reward system might be flawed, If so, Maybe someone out there can enlighten me on where I misunderstand.
So, there is a reward pool. This reward pool gets topped up each day at a set rate. Each day the same amount of Steem will be generated through the process involved in creating the Steem. The amount displayed in the reward pool is the amount that is there over the last seven days basically. A division of 7 to the total amount in the reward pool will show how much can be rewarded per day. Note this is an estimate as the reward per day may still vary. It is a good estimate and the variation is marginal in comparison day to day.
Just to keep things simple. If the daily reward pool is 70K then the daily reward would be equal to 10K, basic mathematics. It does not matter if the reward pool is 70K or 700K the %'s are the same. There is only ever 100% of the reward pool to be distributed. Adding more to it does not increase that %. There is still 100%.
Then there is the Steem Power. The Steem power determines the level of reward you can give. The more Steem Power you have the bigger the reward you can share. If I have 10 Steem Power and my vote is worth 1. A person with 100 Steem Power would have a vote of 10. That seems fair to me. Your vote gets valued at the % of the Steem Power you hold.
I think what I have said above makes sense. If it does not, STOP READING! Write a comment on why it does not make sense so far and I will reply and try make it clearer.
So we have a division of two different things combining together to give the reward level. The % of the total Steem powered up. And the daily % of the reward pool. The reward pool % you get to give is in direct relation to the % of the overall Steem there is powered up.
If there is 100 Steem powered up and there is a reward pool of 100. If you hold 10 Steem powered up, you would give the reward value of 10.
1000 Steem powered up and 100 in the reward pool and you hold 10 this will mean you give a reward of 1.
I hope this is all straight forward so far.
When a vote gets placed. That vote gives a reward value which gets displayed. Accumulated votes get added to the total and they are also displayed as a total. This will be the amount of reward the post will get at the time the Steem reward pool release to the publisher. There are fluctuation to this amount dependant on market prices. If the price of the currency rises then the reward value will rise too. The amount of the vote does not change. The vote remains the same, it is only the market value of that reward which has changed.
The start of a new day. We are going to make our first vote. Not only that we are going to make the very first vote of the day. No one has voted before us. The clock hits 00:00 and before it hits 00:00.001 we get the first vote in. YAY! first vote. How much is the vote worth? It is the same as if you were to do the last vote of the day. There is no variation in this unless it is due to market forces or a large power up or down on the Steem Power.
The value of your vote does not alter as another person places a vote. It remains the same, It remains the % of Steem Power you hold in relation to the amount of the daily reward pool. This remains constant and does not change with the general actions of others.
The amount of reward we give when we vote is predetermined The amount of rewards which can be taken from the pool on any given day is also limited by the amount produced.
Somebody voting to their own account and only to their account takes no more from the reward pool than their Steem Power allows. If they vote their stake to a post published by someone else, it makes no difference. The amount of the vote they use can make a difference to the size of the reward pool tomorrow. If they do not use their vote, that amount of Steem will not get paid out and will be added to the total reward pool for a seven day period.
I have a vote and it has a value of 100 Steem. I have a total of 10 of these I can do in a 24 hour period. This amount will replenish also through that 24 hours, leaving me a daily vote of ten. If I only use 9 of these votes 100 Steem will be added to the reward pool. It does not matter where I place these votes. The amount I can vote with is already set.
The same thing goes when voting bots are applied. Anything the voting bot or bid bot votes with and distributes to posts has already been allocated. If these voting bots do not vote the vote goes unused and the reward pool for tomorrow increases slightly. A service is provided and used. A user exchanges their Steem for the service. Is this not what we want to happen, the ability to use Steem to better our lives?
My conclusion here is. You cannot rape the reward pool, everything you can do with your stake is already pre-set. You can choose were you will delegate your stake. You can make individual or group choices. You can concentrate your efforts strictly on financial generation or on the publishing side of things. The reward pool is outside of the control of others to rape or pilfer. The ability to concentrate financial rewards is there and is used by many. Everyone holds a measure they cannot go above or beyond when it comes to the reward pool.
You could look at it that those who flag published content because of the use of bots are preventing free trade of goods and services and dictating where another should spend their earned Steem.
https://discord.gg/SQ3zSsp
Some other groups I invite you to take a look at are:
The @IFC Discord group: https://discord.gg/uSGDtKR
The @cryptoempire Discord Server: https://discord.gg/9JhyHXg
The @asapers Discord Server: https://discord.gg/2gJD7PW
The @buddyup Discord Server: https://discord.gg/3d5H3K8
The @steemitramble Discord Server: https://discord.gg/QJzP2zm
The @thealliance Discord Server https://discord.gg/hjZnKbD
The Whaleshares Server https://discord.gg/XbME6Np
by
@Charisma777
Referral link:
https://initiativeq.com/invite/r4rbicu7m
https://www.mannabase.com/?ref=e7ee2ff1bd
https://wirexapp.com/r/e3a0654c206c4a15a8aabf8ad1919560
You may want to take a read of the post I just put out there in my series of posts about Bid Bots and more importantly the referenced posts, as they go into all the maths.
ref:
https://steemit.com/testing/@jackmiller/bots-facts-and-figures-part-three
All in all, it pretty much confirms what you have said in many ways, without any of the unfounded "opinions".
Thanks for sharing that link @jackmiller
commenting for a vote
advantage or abuse
You decide tell me what to do.
Sounds like a lot of bother about nothing
Is this good or bad?
this stuff is so deep and complicated by layers
Come on...It´s not rape...We pay for the hooker more than the pleasure she gives...XD
Evidently you did not read this post
I was making a joke man XD
ah. Duh at me
thehive so i got back back and re-read all your posts and my responses to your posts and realise this is way above my pay grade i don't understand any of this. Best if i just stick to actifit posts and the simpler things in life:)
Don't get dis-heartened.
This was new to us all at one time, It is through hearing more and reading more we gin a better understanding.
Thank you for taking the time to read. It is a complicated subject with many moving parts.
!bookkeeping drugwars
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Interesting choice of topic @thehive
Indeed. It's very trendy to talk about it :)
I do agree with you, however it's hard to claim that all those who have little SP and cannot afford to be "a whale" are raping the reward pool. After all using voting bots is hardly ever profitable but it's still the only way regular people can compete with big players and push their publication to trending page.
Anyway the most important issue is the fact, that noone has any suggestion what could we do actually to make things "better". Removing bots is not an real option. So what really can be done?
Yours
Piotr
If you would like to discuss possibilities let me know.
We may never have a system that is not able to be corrupted.
There are ways to correct errors we made without removing bots.
All that is needed is community agreement. If community agreement means one might lose some financial benefit, It stops.
Hi @thehive
Thank you for your kind and mature reply. I really appreciate and value your comments a lot.
Yours
Piotr
Trending is completely pointless unless you are an aspiring author. Even then, you may not receive the feedback you want. The posts I have sent to trending have always had worse engagement than my regular normal posting.
Most seasoned bot users know how to use bots to turn a profit. Only amateurs stick with the big bots in hopes to gain visibility and/or profit.
Some money-driven individuals use bots to gain quick reputation scores to harvest airdrops available to Steemians (Byteballs, atomic wallets, etc.). The result is a bunch of empty shell 60+ rep accounts. It would be great if the bots could not raise rep, but that is only possible if their rep is reduced to negatives.
The problem is not so much reward pool rape, but more of "runaway printing of Steem". Most people don't burn their tokens at @null. The increased supply eventually becomes sell pressure to the overall price. So, it turns out, the "cheaters" always cash out first. Your average aspiring authors are left with the short end of the stick, or sometimes holding the bag.
Dear @enforcer48
Thank you for your kind and mature comment and taking the time to reply.
I fully agree with you.
That's very true. I finally start seeing bigger picture. Thank you.
Yours
Piotr
my understanding is that some have issues with others how you should 'correctly' mine steem based on the current system
My understanding is, the same amount of steem is mined each day at a set level. The content produced only serves to provide the content to fill the blocks on the chain. Each chain produced gives the same reward. A block for the chain is completed in the same amount of time for each block. The mining process does not work the same as with bitcoin where the mining process becomes more and more expensive.
A set number of blocks will be produced each day is my understanding.
That amount is divided up by the amount of Steem powered up to provide the Steem reward value.
The mining of the Steem is not in our hands it is already pre-set.
The distribution of the reward pool through self voting systems seems to be the under lying issue?
A pie each day who gets what of the pie is not preset.
Ah. that post is more about the content than the use of the bot. the same power if used to vote elsewhere still takes the same amount of the reward pool. Regardless of where it votes to.
The power not being used on a vote will mean the pool size will increase. I do not dispute that the use of an automated pay for vote reward system provides a greater visibility to content which is not to a high standard.
That is for individual front ends to sort out. it is the front ends which provide the filters. Finding this balance between what t show and not to show on the front end is again something for the front end developers and users to determine. If a site does not want to show meme's they can restrict the display of those posts. or posts containing that tag line.
While we say it is up to us as a community to resolve these issues, the most common thing to do is attack someone about an issue and not look for a solution. The solution is in the front ends, front ends have to decide what will attract people to their front and what their membership does not want to see.
The same thing applies. All the SP / VP % of that SP % you hold. = your vote. that is set. Who gets what vote when is not set. When all the votes go down that delivers the reward.
No one has taken any more than the votes given allowed. They have not taken from anyone. That amount was already allocated to that voting power.
Wow. I love to see how responsive you are @thehive
Respect,
Piotr
'While we say it is up to us as a community to resolve these issues, the most common thing to do is attack someone about an issue and not look for a solution' - a good article i read on this is 'help me fix steem's economy' by trafalgar. gotta run be back later tonight
Good comment.
That's quite the way I see things too @michealb
Yours, Piotr
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