I'm typing this while listening to Aggroed on PAL discuss HF21 and the argument is now very stale to me.
Due to our distribution level, the mathematical changes only matter if the values of the people with the most stake act in the best interest of the platform.
Change the math however you want, but it only works if the large stakeholders actually curate. If they had been fighting abuse before we wouldn't be in this situation. If they think the Downvote pool helps them to do that and changes their behavior it would help. If their behavior continues to be all about stacking Steem faster than the other stakeholders, it will not help.
Marketing and PR would help. Attention would help.. Getting our name and project visibility would help, but Math alone fixes nothing.
I'm concerned it will turn off end users, but marketing could offset that.
In other words, Math or not, it is humans that make or break Steem there are lots of ways to attact users and if the inflationary Steem isn't used to create value it is just a devaluation of all of our holdings.
The math is not catastrophic nor is it a Silver Bullet.
At some point, the fight gets bigger than topic, discuss it but also keep it in perspective.
We can hardfork the blockchain; but we can't hardfork the brains.
Spot on
Pre- and Post-cisely. If only more people realized this. The EIP is a bunch of smoke when greed is at the core of whatever math is applied.
It all could be a solution if it changes behavior, but I'm tired of the this will fix everything mode.
It will not fix anything.
@whatsup, I am 57 years old and one thing I have learned along the way is that when people start using complex mathematical formulas and rarely used words to explain something it is because what they are trying to sell does not really live up to expectations.
Sometimes, I am increasingly mystified, that, no matter how euridite, and eloquent I am, the multitudes seem to be obfuscating otherwise simplified enigmatic formulae.
My brain just forked after reading this
Actually I don't know why they came up with this topic in this HF21, we have a lot more to focus, unless fight for these kind of things!@whatsup,
Cheers~
Many top witnesses/large stakeholders- "Pay me more from the pool and I will stop self voting and running bid bots. I just need it to be worth my time. I promise I will stop the bad behavior I claim this will stop."
I get the sense their fingers are crossed behind their backs as they mutter this, hoping the cheerleaders will keep the fuss to a minimum until after they have implemented it.
When I joined in 2016, I was under the illusion that capitalism and free market principles would cause Steemit to self moderate itself to success, seeing as how large stakeholders would have a clear financial incentive to act in the best interest of the platform.
Hahahah. Yeah.
"Hahahaha. Yeah." is right!! I'll add my chortles to the general mirth ... as soon as this happens.
The theory is still holy! How dare you let reality distract from that! Infidel!
oops
But the theory on paper works!(TM)
;)
Spot on.
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I don't know what to think anymore, in one hand it really should be 50/50 and downvotes and all the stuff... Now, if the authors don't earn as much as they value themselves... They can post to facebok. As long as there is a core of witnesses, developers and stinc development steem will attract users. After all we have been decreasing in numbers of active people for a long time but lots of them are coming back for one reason or another.
Marketing is a must, we are developing a project to hit SPS as soon as possible.
Math is one thing, behavior, greed and short-term thinking is another - and as that joke goes for physicists... Steem is not a spherical chicken in a vacuum.
Or self publish as some of us have and will continue to do. :)
Wonder why a slider isn't proposed allowing the authors to decide what the split would be? Then the people posting pictures of their breakfast could allow the curators 50-75% and rake in all the profit curators who care little for quality and more for payout.
Better joke about economists; physicists are more practical than you think.
It also would help by not having 50/50 rewards. Why write any posts when you can just buy Steem, power it up, and auto upvote anything blindly, or join a curation trail.
Many curation trails are just automatic and have no manuall curators. @informationwar and maybe 6 or 7 others are essentially the only ones who do that. Its more profitable and less time consuming if we just set it to autoupvote anything in #informationwar, but we don't because we are just purists in that sense of wanting to follow the spirit of the "code is law" that is "curating".
Many don't follow the spirit of "code is law" that is what curation is supposed to be, a discerning eye and discriminating for upvoting. I think 50/50 rewards gives more incentives against ACTUAL curation, the definition of curation.
Also, 50/50 places equal value on upvotes than on content creation. With 75/25 it was a 3x fold placed on content cration being the most rewarding aspect. Does clicking an upvote button or joining an autoupvote trail really worth 50% of the value? I don't think so at all, doesn't make sense logically.
I guess what I don't understand is, how does EVERYONE not see this?
It is exactly how I think about it. You explained it nicely though. Marketing, marketing, marketing.
You don’t know How I share this sentence.
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If we came up with the best formula in the world it would still be only us that knew.
It’s a Math Thing
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Why did you use an illustration with trigonometry? Just curious.
I just think that "hard math" is basically what all the math looks like to the vast majority of people.
NO ONE CARES. Do something that brings people on board.
You mean like reducing the reverse auction time? The artists and advertisers will be queuing up!
lol, while agree with that change it is also meaningless without marketing
Precisely. And that's what I find a bit hard to believe.Hope to be proven wrong
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People will tend to do the most profitable thing that is permissible. Downvotes will only stop abuse unless we actually function like psychopaths.
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I kind of disagree with you on this one, we first need to get our act together. Why market a product that at present is subpar at best?
Lot's of projects market on where they are headed and what they are doing to get there.
Amazon wasn't profitable for 10 years, and they still built brand recognition.
Ok, that makes sense.
Lot's of projects market on where they are headed and what they are doing to get there.
Amazon wasn't profitable for 10 years, and they still built brand recognition.
The changes should be done on human behavior and not on mathematics, it will never work.
It's already clear to see what's happening, people start leaving Steem and for newcomers it will be harder then ever.
1+1=2
Have a nice day
Tom
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You got a 100.00% upvote from @minnowspower courtesy of @theguruasia! @minnowspower is a hardfork of well known bid bot @postpromoter developed by @yabapmatt! @minnowspower accept min 0.01 - max 0.03 STEEM/SBD bids only! @minnowspower owned by @theguruasia - TGA Network!
Aside from your antiintelectual spin there is some truth to your post. Believe it or not math is important, more specifically in our context game theory is very relevant.
The only way that the "math" will work is if the incentives of the individual align with everyone elses. In a nutshell, you can only win if others win. Currently the easiest way to win is to self vote yourself 10 times a day which does not align with the best interest of everyone else.
Although it does not apply to every individual it is safe to assume that almost everyone acts out of self interest. Will HF21 entice stakeholders to act for there own gain and as a consequence benefit the whole? We will see.
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I also think we need more aggressive marketing. Getting on leading industry podcasts would be a step in the right direction. And it doesn't have to come from centralized force like STINC. Community and DApps creators could also promote their own projects.
Math could help create proper incentives to existing behavior for stakeholder to change their behavior, but the EIP doesn't actually rely on math to create incentives.
It relies on wishful thinking that a non-incentified action (flagging given the risk of retaliation) will just materialize and the wishful thinking that these actions will result in a fully rational non-emotional response to flags, end in doing so create a situation where the math might end up creating the desired insentives.
If people are too scared to flag the EIP math won't kick in. If people act emotionaly on flags and start retaliating, the EIP math won't kick in.
I think there is maybe a 20% .. 25% chance the EIP might work out, and there would nothing wrong with taking a gamble on this if there was an actual contingency plan. Unfortunately though, Steemit Inc is already on to SMTs, as if HF21 already happens, and I don't believe any of the top witnesses learned anything from HF20 about how important contingency planning actually is.
Yes, the EIP most likely will backfire, but that isn't the bigest of problems. The biggest of problems is that contingency planning for HF21 seems to be even less than it was for HF20 at the moment, so if things go south, there will be no plan B.
My contingency plan is to register @hf21 and be ready for the next fork in the road...
LOL!
I don't find any fault with that behaviour. That's how most of the humans behave and that's bound to happen in any capitalist economy.