We aren't like other social networks so why copy them? Facebook has a like button on its feed because the entire post is on the feed. Instagram has a heart button on its feeds because it's mainly just single photos or videos and very short descriptions. But why do we? All that's on our feed is a thumbnail image, title, and not even a description of the article/post but the first couple sentences. How can this amount of information warrant a upvote? Are users even reading the article or looking at the current $ value of the pos, the amount of time elapsed, and just blindly voting? I would bet some don't even look at the title before they hit that UpVote...
Yes, I know that's mostly questions and you've come here for answers... or have you made it this far? Well these are questions I seem to be asking myself quite often lately. I won't say I haven't done it myself, I have many times, it's convenient, I must say. But what does it really add to this amazing platform, besides increasing the speed of which posts gain traction and value. Yes... I know thats what we need right now in order for growth. However these both are artificial because no one actually read the article, and an unread article, in theory, can't be trending, but some how on Steemit it can be. This, mixed with the Follow UpVote Bots can propel a 2 sentence article into the top trending posts.
I understand that with our current user base, (being very small compared to these giant social media networks) not being able to UpVote multiple posts "that you think you would like", more good/great/awesome posts would get buried. We would see a lot less Steem Dollars being earned overall, which could impact new user growth. On the flip side this would slow the ever increasing flood of new STEEM into the cryptocurrency market, which I think would be a good thing. Over saturating the market too quickly will only make the value of STEEM head south.
After all that, I really just want your opinion on the on-feed UpVote Button and if it should even be a thing.
Love to hear your thoughts and comments. Lets start a discussion on this , maybe its a mute point and its just here to stay or maybe we could remove it for a day and see what happens?
Blue
Ps. I wrote this on my phone while riding the train during my morning commute, so sorry for any spelling and grammatical mistakes!
We have gone back and forth on this. In some sense it is a compromise between human and bot curators. Sometimes humans just want to upvote people they trust to produce good content but for whom they don't have time to read "right now".
That is defiantly the dilemma. I have and this has come up in this discussion upvoted posts by users who I follow before actually reading the entire article. When you post, for instance, I tend to take the time and read because It's usually a hot topic and has some great discussion via the comments. But for the most part due to a very busy schedule I upvote and then go back later on and read though. I also want to be able to as you brought up in your recent post get some good curation rewards and waiting until the end of the day just won't cut it. That being said, even though I have a fair amount of Vested Shares, curation rewards are minimal compared to yours, and I don't tend to worry was much about timing. Maybe someday.
Thanks for your feedback
It seems that only good content should be upvoted... regardless of who wrote it. That is the fairest way for everyone at least the way I see it...
I have also been thinking about this and I agree. Seeing that upvote button just makes it too tempting to click on in the feed if it looks like something that will be voted up.
It is simple psychology that we are driven from a biological perspective to take cognitive shortcuts when we can. Having the up-vote visible on the feed plays to that and is hard to resist because it saves us time and mental energy.
Removing it from the feed will reduce the likelihood but obviously won't eliminate it. It would be interesting to collect data on this (assuming it were possible) to see how many posts get upvoted without being opened.
An even better data point to collect would be to see how quickly those that open posts then go on to vote on the same post. How does that time fit with the time it would take an average person to read the post? I'm not sure how feasible this kind of information would be to collect as I'm not a programmer.
If it were possible to collect this data it might be useful to do a before and after comparison to see how many people were actually reading the post before and after removing the upvote button on feeds.
It is very tempting to click! I find myself doing it unconsciously sometimes and going back on it seems risky since it seems the world watches your every move. ognitive shortcuts is exactly right.
Data collection wise I don't think an upvote has a typefield where it contains the method of upvoting but maybe it should? I would be very interested to see this data.
I actually haven't ever upvoted anything without at least clicking in and looking at the post. But that isn't to say that I haven't skimmed post and upvoted them in a matter of 5 seconds. Not long enough to actually read the entire thing. Steemit is an interesting experiment in rewards. With the follow button it becomes a question of do I follow users that I like but aren't upvoted by whales or do I follow people that I don't care about their content and just upvote them because I know the whales will. It becomes an issue. Great post
Completely agree it shouldn't be on the feed. Will it change behavior? Less sure of that...
It would defiantly slow it down I believe. If you end up inside the post having to scroll down through it you may be stopped and actual read something. This of course wouldn't stop the bots from doing their thing but I may impact users.
For sure.... sorry feeling negative as a result of dans new post...... talking about his "game of kings" and for some reason no comments being able to be seen. It IS a good idea, and a good post would still get seen.
I agree, good posts might actual be pushed to the top because you have to choose where you go simply because it takes more time to vote. I personally go into the post to vote and try to read at least some of it before voting. I do tend to keep it open and try to finish the read later (if its a long post)
I couldn't agree more, I think many users don't care about content and just if they can make money off up-voting already popular content. I addressed hiding the post and reputation name for the 1st 30 minutes and got hardly any rebuttals to my post? I know I have invested much time on this place thus far it would be nice to be heard for once. Great Post Cheers!
Thats an interesting Idea. Did you just quote yourself while saying the actual quote ;)
Something like that:) I never quoted actually just made it in quote reading form cheers!
Fixed it for you happy day!
I read that... it was a great idea. Would rather it be same for an hour. Whales, at least according to dans new post (grrr), will vote at 30 minute mark and be nice to get our curation reward based on..... oh say reading before they do their thing.
good point. Also I think if the amount of money earned by post was also hidden from the feed we might get a different trending results too. I feel like sometimes ppl upvote successful post just in hopes to get a piece of the pie!
I agree, Its defiantly about getting that piece of the pie. To be honest most of us do want a piece, a very large piece ;) but doesn't mean we have to blindly vote. Keeping the value hidden would defiantly effect trending results.
I agree 100%. We should not be able to upvote and see the money earned without at least clicking on the post. This was one of the things I was going to bring up in a future post, but you beat me to it.
Interesting thought @blueorgy. At the very least, I feel that possibly having usernames not show up until you clicked on the article might be beneficial. We should be voting on content and not on who made the content. Those that you follow should have usernames be visible to you. Just an idea since @berniesanders posed the question as to whether @dantheman should receive as much money as he did for his most recent post, and whether people are blindly voting because they want the .001 steem reward. Maybe having both username and voting only available at the end of the post would be something to bring up.
It would certainly help reduce the amount of people that vote exclusively based on the potential rewards numbers instead of the actual value of the content.
I think that yes, the button should be removed.
This could also be solved by increasing the wait time required between UpVotes form the current 5 Seconds to maybe 25-30 Seconds? Should have included this thought in my post but I'll pose the question here
Perhaps it would help , but I meant more about people who don't read and just upvote big numbers , even with putting a delay on their votes, they will still vote on posts with big money numbers and still won't read. (pessimistic, I know)
Thank you a lot for the information
Can I ask why you are copying and pasting this all over? If you made a more thoughtful comment I feel you would have more success. Makes me question if you even read or value the information, since a bot can make the comment and photo you just did.
Looks like a bot to me, maybe a flag is in order?
I'll leave that decision up to you @blueorgy as it is in your comment section and let you decide if you feel it warrants a flag.
It was always there to invite people to vote without actually reading. It should never be there, but of course, today a vast majority of curators are probably gaming the system, who would be rather displeased by this omission.
Well the true gaming of the system is in the bots but people can just as easily up vote as they scroll down the trending view which I think is a problem. It may be trending for a reason so just go into the article and read some of it.
Let's not get into a bots, that's a whole different can of worms! But yes, something needs to be done about the manual gaming too.
I agree, the on-feed button helps voting without reading the article. We shouldn't have that. I have to admit I always try to vote at 8 minutes so I often don't finish reading the articles before voting and sometimes just vote at the feed, and planning to read it later.
Also if we are removing the on-feed button. I think it is a good idea to also remove the button from the trending /hot pages.
But I think the main problem is the people who are using autovoter bots. They are not using steemit, they use the steemd directly, so removing the button won't affect them.
Yes the bots never actually go onto steemit and don't even need steemd they can't just connect via an api or node.
totally agree, theres no point in upvote button there. It is a way to encouraging upvote without even read.
@blueorgy
Agree, the upvote button is too small.
Should be in colour format , many users doesn't know where they are.
Did you read the post @billionstackers ;) It's not too small... I was suggesting removed all together haha
Lmao, I went so fast. Too much reading everywhere.
Thanks for the replied. Sorry Boss. 😜
Haha :) He doesn't want to remove it, just make it smaller than a pixel so a mouse or touch screen couldn't process it. Best of both worlds!
have you read this post? https://steemit.com/steemit-ideas/@liondani/don-t-remove-curation-rewards-just-stop-them-when-the-post-reach-the-trending-page
I completely agree. It's so easy to go through a feed and upvote anything and everything without reading a single bit of actual content.
You are right, it is easy thing to do but again why we have follow buttons if we don't use upvote on feed page, after all you are following the people you would potentially like to upvote, right?! But getting user to read an article is difficult job for content writers and getting followers should be even more difficult, but in this early stage I guess it makes sense that this is happening. Good write though, I would want to see what would happen if we disable this for a week.
100% agree. If the content is what matters, then the voters should at least have to visit the page in order to vote. If it is needed for the blockchain meta, then just disable/remove the button, but leave the meta data.
No, it's part of the reason why I came here. Multiple possible revenue streams while creating a better environment for everyone.
What about puting the upvote button inside the post only? That way at least the post must be opened before voted...
exactly the question asked by the post ;) so it looks like you think it should only inside the post.
Ha yes. Sorry, it wasn't worded the best, but yes I think that makes the most sense...
It makes more sense then writing codes for how long before someone can vote on a post to deem whether they have read it or not... There is no perfect way, but that at least slows down clicks for the sake of clicking.
This site was created to reward good content. As is, good content gets lost constantly while reputable authors get voted for every post, no matter its content.
I think removing the button is a good idea, and would have the added benefit of making it more likely that people actually read the article. Even if they click just to upvote, something could catch their eye!