 | Benjamin Franklin said there were only two things certain in life: death and taxes |
|---|
Hi everyone,
My goal for today WAS to create an article about masternodes and explain what is it about and why so many people fear investing in masternodes, comparing many of them to ponzi scheme. But this topic will have to wait another few days. So stay tuned and check my profile again in a week or so :)
Reason for this last minute change of article was inspired by one of my steemit collegues.
Just a moment ago, I came across a post written by @richardgerald that attracted my attention: "What I can do to promote steem". Seeing that Richard is struggling to get any engagement I decided to help and promote his content. Especially since he touched on a subject that bothered me a lot lately related to taxes on steemit.
So if you have a chance then visit his latest post and show some support:
https://steemit.com/steemjet/@richardgerald/what-i-can-do-to-promote-steem
"What I can do to promote steem?"
This is one of the many questions I've been asking myself recently. Since I strongly believe in the future of Steemit I would like to see it grow bigger. That's pretty obvious, but how do we achieve this? Did you guys ever try to bring new people onto this platform and explain what Steemit is about and how is it different it is from traditional blogs/social media platforms?
Within the past few weeks I went through a number of conversations with random people and I attempted many times to explain what Steemit is and what are advantages of this platform over their "traditional competition" (facebook/twitter etc). At the end of the day I realized that I already abandoned being active on other social media platforms since I joined Steemit. Allocating most of my time to build my follower base on steemit allowed me to achieve results I could never achieve with facebook / twitter. That's a fact. So helping steemit grow bigger is important to me for obvious reasons.
I've also realize that I've huge difficulties while talking to people not familiar with blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies. I've tried and failed so many times that I already lost count. So today I really would love to know your ways of explaining how does Steemit works and how to earn money whenever you're dealing with non-tech person with very little idea about blockchain and crypto?
Taxes and steemit payments
What really attracted my attention was the fact, that @richardgerald in his post mentioned that steemit allows to receive non-taxable payments:
Steem as a cryprocurrency has a very unique and stable block chain. This blockchain is tax free
Getting the freelancer platform not to only accept steem as it's currency but also to run on the most trusted and tax free blockchain is the aim
As much as I agree with his reasoning, I also found it dangerous to assume that one day we will not become a victim of tax offices. At the moment it seems to be one of the safest ways to transfer funds using blockchain technology. It's almost like double-layer payments. Instead of sending BTC to a friend, I can purchase steem, transfer it to my steemit account and then send those funds to account that belong to a friend of mine. He will receive funds and just then exchange them to BTC. Obviously it's going to be harder for anyone to trace down such a payment.
That actually brought some worries as steemit seem to be the perfect place for money laundering. Can we really safely assume that we wont have to pay taxes and penalties for all received SP/SBD? I really would love to hear what's your thought on that issue.
At the end of his post Richard mentioned his dream:
Maybe someday I wall also own a store on the steem blockchain
I must admit that I thought about it several times as well. I dont think this technology is ready to be adopted into online shops yet. Maybe in the near future. Especially once SMT will be introduced. But shouldnt we be even more scared and worried? As long as steemit isn't big and isnt attracting goverments/regulators attention and we may sleep calmly. That I know.
Final questions:
Does anyone here ever worry that all our received rewards and completed payments done on steemit will be taxable and some of us can get in trouble for "avoiding taxes"? Please share your view on that issue with me as I would love to know your opinion.
Luckily Im way to small to actually earn any decent amount of funds here, but there are many big players who earned fortunes on Steemit. Should they be afraid? Should we be afraid too?
Cheers,
Piotr
Each government has rules of its own.
Steem, due to its transparency, is not a perfect platform for money laundering.
Bitcoin may be, for those whom do not have a problem to create a new Bitcoin address for each transaction.
You got a 100.00% upvote from @voteme courtesy of @stimialiti! For next round, send minimum 0.01 SBD to bid for upvote.
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hi @stimialiti
you're right. this platform is to transparent. but if you mix transfering bitcoin and then at some point moving it into steemit, transfering withing steemit and withdrawig again - then wouldnt it make it even harder to trace?
thanks for your comment mate
I believe it will make it harder for you than for the investigator that will try to track you.
Why involve Steem or even Bitcoin, when there are privacy oriented currencies such as Dark Bytes, ZCash, ZeroCoin, PIVX, Monero?
This post has received a 61.53 % upvote from @kath1 thanks to: @stimialiti.
This was the vote that I got initially
This post has received a 7.69 % upvote from @kath1 thanks to: @stimialiti.
And then you destroyed it with this vote
Im not sure what do you mean @stimialiti
I bought bids using this bot, and it worked well, until it replaced its votes with much smaller votes, which undid 99% of its work retroactively.
If you viewed the full context, you would have gotten a better clue to what has happened.
thank you @stimialiti for another awesome comment
I will admit that I know very little about privacy oriented currencies. I know that they exist only. Thanks for pointing me out in right dirrection
yours
Piotr
My knowledge is not better.
I only know some names.
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I wrote a blog post about the same issue https://steemit.com/taxes/@divyanthj/how-exactly-does-taxes-from-steemit-income-work
I'm not worried about taxes from steemit income because I'm going to consider only withdrawals from my steemit account as income. Here's why.
Let's say you are a manager of a company that is also in control of the budget and incentives. You have your own money invested in it. You make some budgetary decisions that yield profits. Since you control the budget, you also decide how much of it ends up in your pocket. So ultimately, you are charged a corporate tax that's on the profit calculated AFTER considering the bonuses you pay for yourself. If all of the profit ends up in your pocket, your business isn't paying any tax. You are the one paying income tax.
Although there are no laws and regulations on how steemit accounts are supposed to be treated (since they aren't registered with the government), I don't think it's unreasonable to treat it as any other corporate account. Just pay taxes on whatever you withdraw. It doesn't matter how much SBD you get from upvotes and how much of it you spend on bots.
That is a good explanation. Moreover, it depends on the tax regulations of specific countries. Therefore, every steemit account user should check the national income and corporate tax to see how it is determined by the law.
I like how responsive you are @xhevat
You mind telling me why you never posted anything? I wanted what's your reason to be here :)
Yours,
Piotr
Put it down in a simple way, the issue arises when the U.B.O. gets the money in his/her own account in the country of residence. Before that moment, they're just a crypto inside an account. The problem, in the end, will be identified not when you receive a reward for an article, but when you have converted BTC to FIAT in your Coinbase (i.e.) and transfer them to your bank account. At that point you need to refer to the jurisdiction of the country, one thing could be to officially ask the question to the Inland Revenue Dept. Here - but I say here and not elsewhere - after 60 days without a reply from a public office you're authorized to proceed and consider it as a go (silence is confirmation rule). It may be considered as a capital gain or interests. There's still debate if the BTC is money or not, go figure.
Amazing comment @f3nix
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it a log.
I never knew about those 60 days. Is it general rule?
ps.
you're very responsive which is absolutely great and steemit community surely will benefit by having you here.
if you would ever like to keep in touch and support each other closer, then drop me a message [email protected]. This will allow us to communicate easier.
No pressure of course,
Cheers, Piotr
Yours,
Piotr
Thank you Piotr. I am very new to steemit. I have been reading more about steemit and what you guys are posting. However, i am thinking of starting to post now. I did not have much time lately, that is a part of my reason. I need to learn much more prior to being more active in steemit.
I must say that steemit community seems to be very good and supportive. Anyhow, we all have similar goals in steemit.
Thank you for sharing with me!
Regards,
Xhevat
hi @Xhevat
I agree that steemit community is more supportive than any community I encountered so far.
Thanks for your comment and I hope to hear from you sometimes. If you would ever create any post about crypto/blockchain/AI then please let me know. I will be always happy to support you, comment and upvote :)
Yours,
Piotr
hi @divyanthj
Thank you for sharing this link with me. Excellent post.
That's obviously the best solution. One simple question: how to pay those taxes from steemit? So far it seem that noone has any idea.
Take care,
Piotr
I think strictly from a legal perspective, at least in most countries, they would "require" you to pay taxes on your earnings. However, in many cases they would have a difficult time knowing you have an account without some in depth analysis. I would presume it's quite easy to get away with not paying.
Think about the ways in which your account is tied to the outside world and then think realistically as to how much effort the government is likely to put into investigating you. If you're making $20k deposits from Coinbase frequently and that's not explained in your tax documents when you file, you're likely to be audited. They'll see Coinbase and then they may be able to get information from Coinbase to see your traffic there. In that case they'll see the funds that you transferred from Binance or another exchange. At some point, they may not get more cooperation, but there is a path in blockchain that leads from your deposits to your steemit account if regulators can get their way. Even if they cant link you all the way back to steemit, they can still get you for the deposited funds. However, if you rarely make those deposits and they're small amounts it's much less likely to be looked at.
Another more difficult way to analyze would be to check any social media or email accounts or websites they know about to see if there's any link to a steemit account there. This method is more subjective to each governments regulations. It would also require types of analysis that government's aren't known for being competent enough to perform without third party assistance.
Outside of the realm of regulation is the question of morality. Do governments have a valid claim to your crypto earnings as taxes. Well, an argument could be made that they don't! That argument could also be made in some capacity for your regular fiat earnings, but those are so transparent and regulated that you can't get away with paying them. If you can get away with not paying crypto taxes and you believe morally you shouldn't pay, it becomes a simple risk reward analysis for you to make. That's what it all boils down to for me. Whats the chance they know I have the funds and when I weigh out my moral compass is it more important to fulfill my legal obligations to my government or to keep the product of my labor that has nothing to do with government and use the funds as I deem most appropriate (or perhaps the motivation is to avoid paying because the government funds what you feel are immoral things).
Thank you @mjo for your amazing comment. Im glad you shared your knowledge with us.
Appreciate.
And now it's a difficult part: what are our earnings here? If I earn 50 SBD and some steem after my post will be publish then is it my profit?
Let's say that I've spent 40 SBD on bots. So my earning should be just 10 SBD. But how to differ "costs" from transfering funds to your friends/your other account.
That's very tricky.
Luckily my biggest asset is knowledge and many solid business contacts. Those 2 things cannot be taxed :)
yours,
Piotr
@mjo just one more thing
I've learned that you're very responsive which is absolutely great and steemit community surely will benefit by having you here.
if you would ever like to keep in touch and support each other closer, then drop me a message [email protected]. This will allow us to communicate easier.
No pressure of course,
Cheers, Piotr
Hey Piotr, sorry for the delayed response. I'm doing a little speculating here, but I think it would be something along the lines of what money you've moved out of steemit compared to what money you've invested into steemit. So, if you start a fresh account and buy/import 40 SBD into the system, then you write a post and use all 40 SBD promoting it. Then, you end up with 50 SBD and you transfer that all out of the system. I think you would be correct that the earnings would be 10 SBD.
However, if you were creating content regularly and saved up 40 SBD, then promoted a post with it and got 50 SBD upon payout. I think they would argue that both the 40 SBD you earned previously and the 10 SBD from that particular post were taxable (assuming you transfer all 50 SBD out of the system at that time).
I'm also thinking about this based on my understanding of the US tax system, could be totally different for you. I'll have to dig through more of the comments here to see if this is roughly in line with what others are saying.
thank you @mjo for taking the time to reply to my questions
I appreciate it a lot.
Yours
Piotr
I do not understand why you would want to pay taxes. Government and political action have done absolutely nothing to innovate in blockchain technology or innovate at all. The high quality of life many of us do have is only possible through technology--by innovators, not politicians.
My response to your query is that you should not have to pay taxes out of fear of political coercion. Instead, realize that coercion is the only tool the government really has to demand taxes from you. My view and that of many steemians is that we definitely want to keep Steemit.com a coercion-free zone.
hi @impatientoptim
Thank you for your kind comment.
Thats interesting point of view. I think paying taxes is a must if you want easy life, without tax officers suddently tearing your life apart.
Just checked your profile just to realize that we seem to share a number of interests :)
In particular that we both share a similar passion towards cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology :)
I will follow you closely :) Take care, Piotr
No problem. I honestly enjoyed your post. Because it is an important topic.
I think that many State officials would like to think they can tear your life apart. I only encourage you to remember that your flesh and the derivatives of your life (property) are ultimately yours. Nobody should have the authority to tear your life apart, specially not States.
hi @impatientoptim
thank you for your kind words. I also believe that for many people out here this is an important topic.
I wish it would work that way.
ps.
you're very responsive which is absolutely great and steemit community surely will benefit by having you here.
if you would ever like to keep in touch and support each other closer, then drop me a message [email protected]. This will allow us to communicate easier.
No pressure of course,
Yours
Piotr
Thanks for opening the communication. I have noted down your contact (you can edit out if you'd like). I will reach out to you later.
Have a great week, my new Steemit friend.
I love to see how responsive you are @impatientoptim
big thx! :)
First off, different countries have different laws - so my answer is: it depends on the tax laws in your country.
That said, I live in the USA. And, anyone who thinks they are going to escape paying taxes on any large crypto earnings is probably kidding themselves. Everything that happens online is completely recorded by the NSA.
Here is the real question: is it worth the governments' time to track you down and come after the capital gains taxes on your crypto earnings?
To even be considered for an audit, you'd have to make at least $5,000 - $10,000 profit from your crypto holdings, unless you are "unlucky" and the IRS decides to make an example of you.
Remember: your digital tokens are not taxable until you redeem them for U.S. dollars. If you leave them in a wallet or exchange somewhere, they are simply considered so much "digital air." Upon conversion to FIAT, taxes matter.
For that reason, I use only one bank account to send and receive all of my FIAT currency - which makes it incredibly easy to determine exactly how much profit/loss I can claim for the years' tax filing. This also makes it easy for the government to do an audit on my assets - which is how I want it to be. I have no illusions about trying to "hide" my money from the government. Don't do it. Crime doesn't pay.
That said, I typically take my crypto profits and transfer them into physical silver and gold investments. In this way, no FIAT/USD is involved in my transactions, I have not "cashed out" in any way which requires me to report capital gains earnings, and I'm simply delaying paying taxes on my investments until I do finally convert my precious metals into another asset, such as real estate. At that point in time, I'm going to have to pay about a 20% capital gains tax. If I happen to move to a different country and take my sivler and gold elsewhere, I will have to deal with whatever taxes and fees apply to my new jurisdiction.
The fact of the matter is this: there's always going to be somebody above me in the "pecking order" who's laws I have to follow. People who try to escape following the laws are placing themselves at risk of being categorized as "criminal." And, governments are "criminal" for placing these chains on us - but that's life. Death and Taxes.
This is not correct. Any crypto-to-crypto exchange is a taxable event under US law.
Additionally, mining results and airdrop (which STEEM would qualify for) are taxed as ordinary income at the US dollar value upon receipt. So when you claim your post rewards of 3 SBD + 1 SP, that's taxable income at the USD value of those quantities on that date.
Excellent question @bi5h0p. It crossed my mind too several times.
That would mean that you can purchase services, products and sometimes pay for hotels with crypto and this way you can use your resources without paying taxes.
I wonder how to approach this issue. Goverments and tax officers will have a very hard task.
Yours,
Piotr
What earnings on Steemit? I think unless you invest a shitload in here and really work it correctly, you never make shit here and even then you're not making money or "earnings". Yeah, there's the illusion of making money when you use bot votes, but you are lucky if you break even with that. Plus, whatever one may accumulate in here, if it's in SP, it can take 4 months to a year to ever get out into something else that someone may wish to call taxable "earnings" and by then it may have collapsed into the negative territory as it seems to be now. Steemit is a catch 22 ponzi scheme. If you want to really make something and get real visibility with more integrity, you have to go to Minds.
Hi @positivesynergy
Dont you think that some bot owners (like Jerry) are making huge amount of money? Or haejin ?
Most people make nothing, but there are very few that earn huge rewards and Im just wondering - should they pay taxes from earned sbd on steemit?
thx for this link. Im planning to try minds sometime this month.
ps. can you try to send me email instead? I would love to see if I will receive it. It's sad that I cant reach you neither via skype or email any more.
I guess that's really a question they and the whales probably need to worry about. Those of us who are minnows and plankton are lucky if we find a barnacle or two to nibble on... LOL
I did notice a @taxman liking my post about the Whale Wars and judging by the one
post he/she did on this very subject, I'd guess there are many here with their eyes on the whales, especially the bad ones like the one who nuked me like he did, which along with all the ponzi scheme aspects and issues of Steemit not being fixed, are why I just don't give a shit about Steemit anymore.
haha yeah, we're lucky we're to small to bring any attention :)
Good food for thought! I think that this is going to be an increasingly important topic in the coming years as the Steemit chain grows. I think it will eventually get noticed. If there’s one thing that governments can’t stand is when the average person finds out how to pay less or minimal/no taxes.
One particular aspect I wrote about in a comment recently was the fact that many people are taking fiat currency and changing it into crypto; this is a gain for crypto and a net loss for fiat currency. When the losses grow to the levels that it’s noticeable that the average person is doing it not just the crypto early adopters the governments will look for any excuse to steal someone’s earnings.
hi @cmplxty
thank you for your time and effort you put into that comment. I appreciate a lot.
I also think that until Steemit is small, we dont have to be worried to much. But one day it will change. And it will if steemit will be growing.
ps.
you're very responsive which is absolutely great and steemit community surely will benefit by having you here.
if you would ever like to keep in touch and support each other closer, then drop me a message [email protected]. This will allow us to communicate easier.
No pressure of course,
Cheers, Piotr
Cheers,
Piotr
Thanks I will! I have questions about the platform and intricacies that I still don’t understand.
It’s true though, Steemit is small with having a million unique accounts spread across the 6.5 billion people in the world so I guess we certainly have more time before the governments come to take our earnings!
good morning @cmplxty
Im glad to see that you're so very responsive.
From my understanding less than 10% of those accounts are even active at all. so steemit is still super little comparing to twitter/facebook
all the best :)
Yours, Piotr
Yes that’s true, and of those how many are bots? Hope we get as long as possible before the tax notifications come.
nice notices
thx @sergeant05
Governments should not have anything to do with it i think. Does it matter if we earn shells or crypto? Steem is not a government issued currency so how can they tax it? Just my current thoughts on it.
hi @j85063
Thank you for your comment. I think that as long as we dont earn to much shells or crypto we should be able to sleep just fine.
Thx again for sharing your thoughts
Cheers, Piotr
To the question in your title, my Magic 8-Ball says:
Hi! I'm a bot, and this answer was posted automatically. Check this post out for more information.
Hmm, interesting topic that provoke attentions here @crypto.piotr bro. Actually, I never thought about this issue before, until you've mentioned it...
hi @wilhb81 :)
Im glad to see that you're still around :)
I wonder what are your thoughts on it now, after I've mentioned it :)
Yours, Piotr
Hi @crypto.piotr,
I only knew that Luno was once being postponed and held by BN (Bank Negara) Malaysia. They required all the Luno's traders to submit their trading information for tax purpose.
For now, Luno is back on business again, but I'm not sure, whether the previous act is still in force, after the changed of new government...
Cheers,
Wilson
thx @wilhb81 for another great reply.
I've noticed lately that Luno is working again. Did you try to compare it to remitano? Someone told me that Luno is a better option to buy/sell BTC within Malaysia, but I never tried.
Yours
Piotr
You're welcome @crypto.piotr bro
Yup, we're glad that Luno is working fine again, after more than half year of disabled by BNM. To be honest, I would buy Bitcoin at Luno and sell Bitcoin at Remitano :)
Cheers,
Wilson
why selling via remitano? I thought that withdrawing funds from Luno is cheaper?
thx for your reply @wilhb81
Well, it's because the selling price is much higher in Remitano than Luno :)
You're welcomed @crypto.piotr
Cryptocurrency tax issues depend on the country. Most countries nowadays have no proper laws and regulations. If cryptocurrency is here to stay, then it will change one day. Another important question how mainstream social networks are taxed in your country? In Russia on of the most famous youtube bloger asked this question to Putin during live session. People who are professional youtubers (don't have other source of income) are actually "unemployed" in Russia. I wonder how they are paying taxes (and really doubt they even do). There is no much difference between getting yur money from advertisment on youtube and earning money on Steemit. So I think the laws and texation rules should be similar.
hi @cryptohumster
good to hear from you. Thank you for your kind and valuable comment.
Im not sure if Putin is right person to be asked about taxes. What was his answer?
ps.
@cryptohumster you're very responsive which is absolutely great and steemit community surely will benefit by having you here.
if you would ever like to keep in touch and support each other closer, then drop me a message [email protected]. This will allow us to communicate easier.
No pressure of course,
Cheers, Piotr
Hello @crypto.piotr i feel really honored to have you look into my post and make a post related to my point of view.
Well since you seem interested in what i have in mind, getting the government out of the way in our transaction is the main reason for the block chain technology in the first place. If the government get in the way with this one i dont think we should be scared at all large or small income earners this is cos its decentralised.
Lets assume i earned $20k from which ever way be it steemit or as dirty as drug sales (which i am not thinking or anyway) no government can trace who really earned that fee not to talk of getting me punished for tax evasion.
BTC has been facing similar issues but in their case miners have to be paid to confirm transaction (this is were we get taxed using BTC)
As for the freelancers or shoppers having confidence in making payment, every store who wants to get into this will be ready to be decentralised too and also have a good escrow system to handle transactions.
Once again i feel honored and i an really grateful.
Thanks
Regards @richardgerald
hi @richardgerald
thank you for such a valuable comment. And for resteeming my post :)
Im wondering if any goverment will be even able to control entire traffic and payments done via blockchain.
Thx for sharing. I hope to see more of your content related to crypto and blockchain :)
Yours,
Piotr
I will always create time to share my idea on steemit.
Regards
@richardgerald
In the Netherlands we don't have to pay any taxes over the earnings. We do over the value of our account on the 1st of January.
There is only one exception, if Steemit is your profession you need to pay tax over your profit. How the tax authority determines of Steemit is your profession is a bit of a riddle for me.
wow @crypto-econom1st
I didnt know about it. I would love to live there :) Paying taxes seem to be so much easier and hussle free.
Now the question is: how to calculate profit? The fact that Im receiving rewards worth let's say 100 usd doesnt mean that it's my profit, because I had to use 90 usd to pay for bots.
I cant imagine how to do it.
Thx for you comment. Piotr
In both cases you just need to report the value of your account on 1st of January. Let's assume it is €25,000 on 1 January 2017 and €150,000 on 1 January 2018.
If you are an investor you need to pay wealth taxes over €25,000 for 2017. If this was your job you need to pay income taxes over €125,000.
wow. that is just so simple and easy. damn. I wish it would be as simple and easy everywhere
thanks for sharing with me @@@crypto-econom1st
Of course this looks simple. But since our tax authority doesn't have any experience with crypto assets it can become more difficult. Cause which amount qualifies as asset? And when are you a professional which needs to pay income tax?
I love to see how responsive you are @crypto-econom1st
so many more questions :) more questions than answers. such a life :)
big thx! :)
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I thought treating it as income made sense, but then I did some research.
What little I've read about cryptocurrency taxes, in the US, is that you pay capital gains tax. It's treated as property.
I think you could arguably convert it into income, because you are being compensated for work... but income is taxed at higher rates than long term capital gains. So it's better to hold onto the money for a year or more, keeping track of how much you have each month or so, and withdraw it accordingly.
hi @declutter69
thank you for sharing your knowledge here with us.
ps. Ive noticed that you're not publishing any more posts. Sick of steemit?
yours
Piotr
Capital gains are not automatically less than ordinary income tax. Depends on your tax bracket .. though are are correct about crypto being classified as property.
thank you for your comment @vladivostok
you're all the way from the east of russia? That must be like living at the end of the world.
Cheers, Piotr
I am back in America for now, this feels more like living at the end of the world to be honest. I also have an idea that an irs audit for this platform could turn out real bad if the auditor could manage to figure out how it works ...
Doubt that will happen though ... I’ve been doing taxes 20 years and this is much more confusing
i hope you will enjoy America @vladivostok.
thx for your comment. I appreciate it a lot.
Yours,
Piotr
Absolutely food for thought! I too never really gave it much thought until I saw this post, I think it's something we should all be concerned about, they will always find a loop to get you, some ways or other.
thank you @masaitv for your comment
it seem that the best idea is to stay outside the radar.
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How should i believe
what do you mean @vinay1 ?
what a great article thanks for your information
absolutely @newelement13.
I've noticed that you're new on steemit. Good luck buddy :)
thank you trying to work out how to transfer my steem from exchange to steemit wallet do you have any advice
Hi @newelement13
Im using Binance and it's quite simple and straight forward to transfer funds to steemit wallet. I dont know about other exchanges .
Yours
Piotr
You got a 25.00% upvote from @botcoin courtesy of @crypto.piotr!
As a newbie to this platform, i also had this doubt. Some steemians are recieving nearly thousands of dollars and whether they spend taxes?
hi @zianzam
thx for your valuable comment.
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Wow, this is very interesting
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You got 35+ upvotes from @oceansbot courtesy of @crypto.piotr!
I dont think this will ever be important for me as it will never be anything more than a hobby...however, there are certain players who would need to figure the taxes out. The longer you hold out, the more the IRS punishes.
I agree. Some bigger players will need to figure it out.
Thx for your comment @curtross
I love having such a real and benefitial talk.
thank you @lola0712 for your kind comment
Hey,
actually it is not to hard, avoiding Tax Payments. In Europe is quite easy, we have "Malta" and Malta does not tax on Crypto. So make your transactions over Malta or similar Countries. If you are "stateless" even easier.
If you invest bigger, you need 2 Companies (one in Malte and one anywhere else). So you pay your winnings to Malta (Income out of foreign Countries is here Tax free). And that is only one Way, there are many.
cheers bitcoin.news
I love how responsive you are @bitcoin.news
I didnt actually indend to learn more about avoiding paying taxes. I would rather like to know how to pay them and if we have to pay them.
Let's say that I invested 10k usd into steemit. And Im using bots to promote my posts and I'm receiving some rewards. And some of it Im giving away to my followers if they leave any interesting comment. Etc. etc.
At the end of the day I would never withdraw my steem but I would keep growing and value of my account would be growing too.
Will I be forced to pay taxes from "income" on steemit? Will transfering sbd to bots be considered cost? I just cannot imagine how to approach this.
Cheers,
Piotr
In my opinion you intend to pay taxes for the wrong reason, out of fear. Taxes are meant to support your county services like health care insurance, social security, firefighters, police, justice, prison, army, government offices, etc. If you would like to support those public services, out of love for your country, you can ask your local tax office how. If they want you to give them all your money and send you to prison, buy a one way ticket on the next flight to North Pole, Moon or Mars. Sometimes the Hell is here on Earth. Build your Heaven in your soul. God does not need money, He has infinite goods for those who know his love..
You're right. Mostly out of fear.
And you're also right that money from taxes are supporting all those services. but it doesnt change the fact that Im willing to pay taxes mosly because Im afraid of consequences of not paying them
Yours
Piotr
Congratulations @crypto.piotr!
Your post was mentioned in the Steemit Hit Parade in the following category:
Hi @cypto.piotr, very good choice of topic as always! As you say as long as your revenues are small, this wont likely be an issue, but well, many of us are here for the gains after all, and if this works out, one might need to be able to justify the loads of fiat rolling in. And also as we are expecting crpyto to go mainstream in the near future, tax authorities wont go blind on the space and look into transactions on the chains, so certainly to be another thing to be prepared for. I know from middle europe, that they have a neutral stance on crypto, but with some nasty interpretations, where even a switch from one currency to another could be seen as speculation and gains would be taxed. That might not be an issue per se but you might get into that situation where you would need to demonstrate, that there are no speculation gains, lots of nasty paperwork ensues....
hi @conceptskip
Thank you for your valuable comment and such a kind words :)
the safest thing is not to be a big player in the game and stay outside the radar. luckily my biggest asset is knowledge and many solid business contacts. Those 2 things cannot be taxed :)
Cheers,
In my country, there is a certain bracket that you are tax exempt. If I am to declare this as my income, then I am exempted from paying income tax because I barely reach the minimum wage per day lol!
There are those who sell items here and payments are through SBD or steem. I believe there is an online shop already.
About promoting, one steemian I know has a clever way of promoting steemit. @junebride promotes it by writing on the receipts in restaurants where she dined stating that you can blog and earn in steemit.
hi @leeart
You mind sharing from which country you're from?
I've also heard about some online shop accepting SBD. But I couldnt find it.
That's amazing hahaha :)
3rd attempt:
Probably I asked you before about droping me short message to my email ([email protected]). Right?
Would you like to keep in touch closer? I would be happy if we could support each other on steemit and establish better communication channel
Cheers,
Piotr
I'm from the Philippines :D I can't seem to remember who put an online shop. Here is my email but I don't open it a lot since I really have no need for it mytribo1 @yahoo dot com
Hi @leeart
I understand that you dont check your email often. I still hope to be able to keep in touch with you closer as I value your person a lot. And we seem to share many similar interests :)
Yours
Piotr
This post was resteemed and upvoted by @otobot and for Upvote 10+ Account and Resteem to 6000+ Send 0.100 SBD or STEEM with URL in Memo thanks to: @crypto.piotr
Steem cannot be taxed since tax can only be issued once the value is moved into a fiat currency account
Instead of withdrawing a lump sum you can either convert it into a other asset like gold with goldmoney and then spent it via your gold money debit card
Cryptocurrency ATMs are also popping up so you can withdraw small amounts and not have to think about tax
Thirdly you can with some work covert into currency you can keep in PayPal and use it for online purchases instead of your credit card and that way avoid tax
hi @chekohler
Yeah, that would be logical. I hope you're not wrong.
Oh seriously? Where? :) I didnt see any yet. That's such a cool idea.
Thank you again for your comment buddy
Yours
Piotr
Lol well in South Africa cryptocurrency can only be taxed if a person submits it with their tax claims and the onus is on them to declare when it was bought at what value in Rands and when it was sold and at what value in Rands and then apply the capital gains tax to it.
Well we have one here in Johannesburg and then Zimbabwe has opened up a few- You can read all about it in one of my older articles - https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@chekohler/south-africa-to-get-its-first-cryptocurrency-atm
thx for sharing that link with me.
definetly will check it out later on today
yours, Piotr
I think smart law enforcement will come to blockchain too. And if we are all smart, we will help them understand how they can "tax" things. And simply make clear distinction between what is a "business" with "profit" and what is "testing" or "under the limit" of what is to be considered, by each law/country as, "business activity". If normal posting on steemit can be considered an activity for which there is profit, then we are all doomed. And trying to force decentralized platforms to pay is irrelevant to singular governments, because they will never be able to control outside of the country.
Either way, smart governments will understand where enforcement should be best applied and the balance between enforcing and "advising". I think we will see better results when crypto gets "simplified" to the point, there is no more need for me compile, for me to trust. At that point, things will be easier to deal along laws.
On another plane, I am sure all the community want is to be able to use the platform, technology and experiment (for many of it), and not to run AWAY from taxes. Making it simple to use and comply with laws is a very important achievement for any blockchain business or tool. So, if this stays as responsibility of the person using it, instead of the product being created, it will be bad in my view for all the community of that specific blockchain technology.
I wish I did not had to worry... about anything too. But unfortunately, its something still very far away... maybe.
hi @forykw
thank you for this amazing comment. so much value in it!
do you mind telling me what do you mean? It it in our interests to help them?
I think that as long as we're to small to matters we're safe. But there is many of those who made huge amount of SBD (bot owners like @@@jerrybanfield) and they should be scared of taxes.
I agree. That's the thing. I want to pay taxes and I want to know how and when. Learning 5 years down the road that I need to pay taxes for something that wasn't regulated is my biggest nightmare.
Cheers,
Piotr
Yes indeed. I do not mean with it that everything should be taxed. Just that we should help understand the technology so that the right balance into the economy can be developed, which in some cases, translate into taxes.
Yes indeed. And that relates a bit to what I was trying to say. If we stay on the platform and show that we are using it as part of an activity (business activity) then for me it makes sense to tax that activity. As long (and here is where things complicate) there is explicit possibility to separate activity from "non-activity" using the same technology. Aka, if you use STEEMit for both, then you face a serious amount of complex iterations, which relate to trying to justify what is or not activity. Usually, people just create a new login to make things easier. But it is when we want to resolve the Identity problem that these multiple accounts go multiple directions, I call them "the ways" of the blockchain. And this makes law very hard to apply. They will get it eventually, but it will be a battle.
Keep in mind that if what YOU currently pay in taxes (if you do) and whatever you would need to "regularize" does not make sense to "bill" because basically, it would just give more cost than actually bring together any benefit, then you might be ok. It's when the difference between those two actually make a huge difference that you should worry about. At least that's the idea I have from experience.
The idea is not to NOT disclose, but if to bring reports with more than 100 crypto per year with hundreds more of transacted values is going to be something that translates to 10$ of taxes in a year... I don't see any benefit in justifying that, if for example the total amount of tax paid was around > 10000$... I mean.. the cost of validating everything, even if having automatisms, which do not exist yet, would cost governments a LOT more than 10$. Therefore, it is up to our good judgement to understand what to report and pay taxes on it. Later, it will probably become easier and hopefully, I would not even have to do anything, the government would have the necessary tools to actually ask for the taxes via blockchain, where I would only have to sign with a transaction. That would be awesome! But the implications of implementing that, are just ridiculous at the moment.
Therefore, I would recommend hanging in there... and make your call. But be just with yourself and ask them what to do, if you really wanna play with it for profit. Otherwise, play around. This is a great tech to learn from and play with. I enjoy trying stuff... breaking... etc.
Cheers
I love to see how responsive you are @forykw
That's what happend in Poland once our gov + tax office decided that everyone need to pay 1% from each transactions on any exchange. Luckily they terminated that law within few days after being flooded with tons of raports.
Thank you again for such an amazing comment
Yours
Piotr
Yep. =) Happy for responding, when I can. It is not always like that, but I try my best. Especially when I see value for others in doing it and also in learning from it.
And all I hope is for Governments to keep that mindset of "being effective" and not just some feudalistic psychedelic enforcers that don't even understand the effects of what they approve/legislate.
now Im blushing @forykw :)
thx for reply. and have a great weekend
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I don't know how to pay taxes on crypto, but the IRS in the US estimated that less than 1% of people who profited from crypto in 2018 paid taxes on it.
There was a great tool that gave detailed financial charts for Steemit earnings but it is down at the moment.
http://www.steemreports.com/financial/
hi @luzcypher
I just checked your profile and I've noticed that you wrote about Bitso and South America. Are you also from Venezuela ? (like many others here)
I believe most people dont pay taxes because they dont even know how to do it. That's the biggest problem.
thank you for your comment and link.
Yours,
Piotr
I'm from California but have been living in Cancun, Mexico for 15 years.
I love to see how responsive you are @luzcypher
big thx! :)
This is great concern about taxes. But at the moment in malaysia seems no need to pay taxes at the moment.
hi @bboyady
thx for your kind comment buddy,
yeah, Malaysia is happy with new goverment :)
Just checked your profile just to realize that we seem to share a number of interests :)
In particular that we both share a similar passion towards cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology :)
I will follow you closely :)
Take care, Piotr
Thank you bro... Ya, we keep in touch bro and really appreciate for your follow. Hope to see more great content from you. Cheers
I love to see how responsive you are @bboyady
big thx! :)
Thanks to ginabot. Hehe. Cheers bro.
yeah, Ginabot apparently is very usefull. Gonna try it out one day. The problem is that I dont have cellphone and discord at all lol :)
thx for reply. and have a great weekend @bboyady
:)
Have a great weekend too brother
Cheers
Enjoy world cup month
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I don’t earn that much but I still have fun earning what ever I get and if people don’t like my post it doesn’t matter I’m having fun trying
Im glad to see that you're still so very responsive @tornadoman
cheers , Piotr
I use the app Steemify to tell me when I get a comment or upvote from someone and it also tells me what percent they voted to
thx for reply. and have a great weekend @tornadoman
:)
I'm already faced with a lot of taxes around Steemit. For me to withdraw or invest in steem, I pay taxes through @blocktrades and some other third parties like banks. These taxes are huge when dealing with small amounts like i do
appreciate your comment @ajongcrypto
Im wondering how big players (haejin etc) will explain to tax officers where their fortune is coming from. Luckily we're to small to be bothered (I hope)