As we all sit here trying to build steem and support the project, Ned and Dan (two founders of Steemi) are transferring to Poloniex and dumping all over the buy orders killing the price. Why are they doing this? This needs to be stopped!!!
Anyone have any ideas what is going on here? Is it time to get out while we can?
Ned trying to bury a post on his own website by paying 600 bucks. Welcome to a new era!
Here are screenshots of the action. Pay attention folks, what you are seeing here is something that happens in mainstream media all the time: creating buzz on other subjects to divert the attention from another, more problematic, news story. Nice to see this happen in a controlled environment.
Interesting. If it's another forum, the post would have been removed/moderated already.
Keeping the discussion in the platform is good.
I thought it might have been Ned being generous before seeing this, but the timing and amount is curious. Is there much wrong with it? The idea of post promotion is partly a competitive payment to get higher on the ladder.
As of right now, this post sits at #5 on the promoted page, and if anyone promotes this post by just 1.01 SBD it will sit at #3 and soon sit at #2.
edit: fixed positions because I was viewing promoted posts only in #steemit
I think the question isn't whether this was right or wrong, this would be creating a false dichotomy. There are usually as many views of right or wrong as there are people judging a specific case. Beside OP is arguably FUD so it's not like reducing its visibility was entirely undeserved.
The real point was that what happened here was extremely manipulative, in the same kind of way we usually reproach to mainstream media and the private interests and powerful bureaucrats that control them.
The last few years in the crypto world have shown that the exact same crap that happens in the real world economy has happened in crypto markets: pumps and dumps, market manipulation, insider trading, money laundering, cartels, scammy IPOs, large scale ponzi schemes, money supply debasing, attempt at co-opting power by self-appointed influence groups, herding, mass hysteria, panick, fear and greed all around... Crypto is a fascinating sandbox that helps understanding what's going on in the real economy, how greedy and ignorant economic actors are and how truely clueless economists and central banks really are.
With the advent of crypto based content publishing and social media platforms like Steem, we are now going to be able to observe all the panel of tactics used by government agencies, large corporates and mainstream media to attempt manipulate the public opinion and their effect. We will also have the opportunity to experiment with counter-tactics like trying to make things backfire for wannabe manipulators.
It's from that perspective that I find what Ned did here absolutely fascinating. This is the kind of stuff you find in Machiavelli's "The Prince" and Robert Greene's "48 Laws of Power". And I expect that we will see more and more of that coming from every directions. This is going to be very interesting, and provide a lot of insight about what's happening in the world at large.
thats a pretty ridiculous statement. What ned did was manage the news -- In a manner so transparent and hamfisted that its apparent to every single person who looks at this post (which i think is linked on a bunch of forums as well) knows whats going on.
Lets review exactly what happened here.
He made whats probably a completely innocuous WD.
then someone posted about it.
So he spends like a thousand bucks to try to move the post down, because its one where he just can't use his vote to hide.
That is to say, he spent $1000 to wreck his credibility and probably chased off a ton of buyers, for the sake of what? Not having to come here and explain whats probably an innocuous transaction (50K isnt market breaking). Also, he proved that promoting a post (a feature he just introduced) is absolutely worthless, because whales will just pump money into other posts in order to achieve the same effect they do with voting in other views.
thats not realpolitik. Its just real bad business.
ALso, just as a PS to the conversation about Ned and Dan as genius realpolitik masterminds,
Did anyone notice the new voting thing was buried in "bug fixes" right under "clean up @null"
I think it is fascinating from a psychological perspective. I think the real question is: what would you do? I had some nasty posts created by tuck and the fryss lately. I ignored them because they upset me. I am not used to attention, especially negative attention. I am not into stirring the pot, but I am not a sheeple either. When it comes to someone else suffering, and the cause of the suffering is BAD DESIGN, well, then, I cannot be quiet.
But I also know when I am wrong and I did apologize to Dan. I should never have mentioned the email, but I was MAD. I also felt that the most vulnerable people are ignored, and I knew I would have to bring visibility to the issue if we were to ever have anything change.
Steemit is a centralized website with a clear power structure. But the fact that we all can see whatever we wish to research on here is a rare peek into psychological worlds that we never have had access to.
Excellently written. Couldn't agree more
Blah 48 Laws of Power, literally a book on how to get rich and powerful in the greasiest ways possible lol.
Done but its at #3
honestly I don't like the idea to be promoted in this way! It is only a risk because people invest their money with the hope to receive more visibility! This doesn't mean that they will score with them post because it depend from Whales. By the way here the problem is another one... and this episode scare me! :( I hope they got a new person that want invest in Steemit so they are "selling" their steem and he can buy it... but I don't know! :(
No.
Not a chance.
This post isn't worth paying to bury. With the amount of money moving around on steemit, $600 amounts to not much more than "testing our new feature."
Nice catch! How funny. Promoted works both ways!
The platform isn't going to build itself for free. They need to cash out to buy better servers, hire good developers to create more features, market, etc. Also, as @mughat pointed out, steem also needs to become available to new buyers so we can grow the user base.
If you believe in Steemit, hold on to your hat. It's going to be a bumpy ride but we can all make it by building this community and not worrying so much about early-stage price fluctuations :)
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/steemit.com
Here are the ingredients for a web site:
Here are the ingredients for a web site like steemit.com:
My points:
@liondani: AMEN indeed.
The day to day price of steem matters because the payouts come from demand for steem. From what I see on coinmarketcap there is no demand for steem. Steem is not currently profitable.
It doesn't matter which account it comes from. Attack the message not the messenger. The fact is, if Steemit is not profitable then all that SP will be worthless, so I have every incentive to want the price of Steem to be as high as possible because that is where my ability to profit comes from.
Steem is not currently profitable. The user base is going up while the market cap going down which means payouts decrease. If you want payouts to increase and more people to be able to get paid then Steem has to be profitable.
I never claimed I lost hope. I do my part to bring value to Steem so it becomes profitable but right now sad to say it's just not. We have to accept reality before we can change it.
I find this funny coming from an account which has made over 30k SP in 4 months and that stellabelle has voted on this comment after the Synereo post.
Also kinda sad seeing how quickly people lose hope cause of a sinking free market price. When the project and site are obviously becoming improved from day to day.
@dana-edwards
It's doing exactly what it was designed to do.
If you believe the long term price of steem is up then you hold sp.
If you believe the long term price of steem is down then you hold SBD or you power down and sell.
If whales weren't selling, then I'd be concerned. These guys really do need to be powering down and taking today's price so the price of steem is depressed enough that people in this for megabucks just go away and those of us who are here to build something can finally have a voice.
and if somehow you don't hild on your hat, you are stuck with it on your head for 104 weeks anyway so better..just enjoy the rideeeeeee
That response is illogical. This coin has a $67 million "ninjamine", 25% of which is allocated to cover development costs. The platform building itself doesn't require coins being sold out of founders' individual accounts.
I was never aware of this before. This is interesting information which can change my views. I always thought developers are cashing out to pay for living expenses and development costs?
The "ninjamine" along with the allocation and planned uses of the proceeds was described and disclosed in the original bitcointalk thread as well as here: https://steem.io/roadmap/launch-and-sale/
The 'steemit' account has already sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of coins, at least, presumably to cover business expenses, most apparently via privately-arranged deals with blocktrades acting as a broker rather than directly on public exchange markets, but likely some of the latter too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having done so; it is in accordance with the stated plans.
Bullshit argument. You don't need to pay to participate on steemit. Growth in user base will have nothing to do with Steem price.
Steem is used to buy Steem power and Steem power is like equity in network and that depends on the size of the network.( really active size).
User count has everything to do with Steem demand
They have 100x that in their wallets so even if 12, 21k Steem is a lot for you and me, for them it's a tiny piece.
Plus, yeah, they needed to get some money for the servers or something or had some investor jumping in and not enough liquidity on the market.
Markets align themselves generally, look at the results of the BTS pump
Steem is currently overvalued and, I agree, it needs to get low in order for more serious shareholders to step in (the kind that pour millions in, not a few BTC).Also, this is good for the power to balance on the platform. I'm waiting for it to go waaay lower than it is right now and jump in buying strong.
Yes I think the liquid Steem plus sbd needs to rise to 10% before I'll stop powering down. Sbd seem like a nice place to park till the next phase starts. The synereo launch feedback should be interesting as well.
you could "miss the train" also....
Steem will always be over valued when you look at the fact that there is no demand for Steem. Look at the volume on coinmarket cap and you see around $100,000 a day which is next to nothing in cryptospace. Then you have Ethereum moving millions a day on promises and vapor and insecure technology.
You may be right I just concerned.
This post is inaccurate, Ned and I are almost always front run and are smarter than to dump at once.
So if the polo sale wasn't you, is some bot out there watching yours and @ned's transfers and auto-dumping when they see you make a big transfer to an exchange? That would be diabolical, and very entertaining to take advantage of.
@dantheman I apologize that I got misled by this blog post. I am now correcting my mistake. I got confused and hope not to repeat such a noob mistake again. Hope that you understand what I mean.
dumping 1% asset so as to hurt the remaining 99% is irrational.
why is this post not in the promoted section anymore? Just curious how this works...
I'm curious how this post has managed to postpone its first payout for so long. If you promote a post, does it push back the payout date?
I see it in promoted still.
When selling steem there is also a buyer. Getting new shareholder into steem is a value. Spreading the voting power is a value for the system as a whole. The price is not very important right now. Actually getting the price down to get new shareholders into the market is what we need at this moment in time. The free market is a huge value.
I´m on the buy-side and for me to buy, someone has to sell. Thank you for the "gifting" :)
Shareholders? This is crypto, your argument is invalid.
Stakeholders, shareholders, coinholders, powerholders. They are all similar concepts. What is your preferred label?
You forgot bagholders..
DAMN.
I prefer to call them dickbutts
plural works too, nice! supermegadickbutts
confused me...
This post has been linked to from another place on Steem.
STEEM REPORT SEPTEMBER, 2ND by @elyaque
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They brought a good idea from conception to market. Why should they not get paid for it?
They haven't brought anything to market. Steemit has not generated any true revenue. All funds have come from speculative bagholders who are watching their "investment" get crushed by the founders dumping their founder coins.
If their company were earning money for coin buyers you might have a point, but it is taking money from coin buyers with continuous dumping and no true value coming out of it yet. These are brutal dumps, not responsible selling to cover expenses and pay reasonable salaries. These are the kind of dumps designed to create a market panic or worse insider trading where they know bad news is around the corner.
Devils advocate... The second a outside dollar bought a steem it was on the market.
And how can you say what constitutes reasonable salaries and reasonable expenses. As a business owner for every new engineer I hire I make sure I have $50k-100k cash on hand to front their costs, salary, and benefits before I begin to see the first cent of value out of them
I read your comment in Tone Vays voice. ;)
Theres a difference between selling and taking a shit on the market.
And that difference in perspective is... Whether you're selling or holding?
It's OK go sell, but you shouldn't do it in large chunks like that, because you eat all the buy orders all at once. Instead you need to feed the coins into the market slowly. Wait for new buy orders to be placed, slowly sell, wait again for new orders, slowly sell, etc.
Doing it in one go will eat away the orders before buyers can come in and place new ones - that's what leads to falling prices.
" the platform need money " is not an excuse for such aggressive trading action. we can solve high cash out far more smarter way. (auction, direct deal on the in-house market. ) there is plenty of options. no need to make people nervous.
This is absolutely wrong action even if its side effect of cashing out for paying cost of project. I am very unhappy when I see market disruption like this.
no excuses, bad behavior.
It is neither an excuse, nor is accurate. This coin has a $67 million "ninjamine"", 25% of which is allocated to cover development costs. The building of the platform doesn't require coins being sold out of founders' individual accounts.
No offense, it just seems sort of grasping at conspiracy theories. I'm writing and creating art over on my blog...and I'd love for @dantheman or @ned to come read some poems, feel some goodness, vote for me...but all this talk of dooms day is exhausting.
I very recently realized I was being oversensational about my own choice to leave the community and decided to stay, because at least I can get my words out and hopefully create some feels for some people. But shit like this is just burdensome and exhausting and talk about attention being turned from posts that matter....this sort of drama is exactly what detracts from artists here who are trying to get some feelings out there and hoping to pay for groceries this week as a result.
So no offense intended and hope you get to feeling better about it all.
@ned and @dantheman or @dan or whoever it is founding this site...come brethren, come read poetry! hahahaha, I know, shameless self promotion!
Namaste everyone.
@ned and @dan flooding with sell orders only means great buy in prices for the rest of us. I'd be willing to bet much of this is going towards building the platform, or maybe they just need to take some profit. It's a free market, it's how it works. If you are speculating on the price of STEEM and you "missed the boat" on the first rise to $5+, now is the time to buy in. Selling STEEM isn't going to kill the platform. If you don't want to lose value in STEEM, that's why you trade STEEM to hold in SBD, since it's pegged to the dollar.
Previously, DTM has said that they only put sell orders on the books at or above market. Given the extent of their stake, i seriously doubt that theyre putting money on bittrex and just eating up the bid book.
End of the day, Dan and ned getting rid of steem is a good thing.
that said, if you look at the minute by minute candlesticks, there do seem to be periodic massive dumps (lol i said massive dumps)... unless its some kind of price manipulation, it really seems like whoever is doing it would benefit from a slower release.
Yes, a slow release of a massive dump is always the best method ... in more than one scenario. ;)
agreed. too fast you might break something down there.
He said dumps
Best comment!!!
Nice find!
Linked to your post from here
It is the necessary step of redistributing coin. To gauge forward action, please see this site: http://www.steemdown.com
Btw. Did you create puppet account to post this?
You'd have to be an idiot to waste time even asking that question. It is not relevant.
Whoever posted, did so anonymously. Here is some information on why that might be useful and important
Some people bought at $4, if they were told dan and ned would crash the market to allow quicker distribution they would have never bought at this price. If they dump the price too low the reward will be lower and there will be even more retention, I understand that power distribution is important but they have already crashed the price a lot ( there was a thread a few days ago about this already ). Maybe they should find a different way to redistribute wealth than screwing early investors...or just change how voting power works.
You're only screwed when you decide to cash out at a lower price than you cashed in at ;-)
That's right. My point though is that the price of steem reflects the health of steemit specifically how many users this platform can support ( average $ / user) , so if the price of steem keep going down and the number of users keep going up we have another issue coming up which imo is more problematic than distribution pace which is retention
Yes, very few buy in. However the game "clash of clans" is clearing ~1.5 Billion US the last two years... Something like 5% of users monetize. Same rules apply here. Open Steemit to advertisers money when the user base is sufficiently large and steemit gets a multi billion dollar injection overnight
That's arguable I guess, if there is no money left in the pool it doesn't really matter how voting power is distributed. Also I would say most people don't buy into steem they just want to post and earn a few dollars. The best way to redistribute is by rewarding new users (most are getting only pennies) not by crashing the price.
The registration bonus for example keeps going down when it should go up imo.
This is the third post with no reply option, they need to fix this. I also noticed that only the last 20 comments of a user are shown on the site.
Better distribution enables retention though
I think the only thing we can blame them for is to not have slowed down post-July 4th growth by increasing the selling pressure. That said, they would've had to have planned it long in advance and I'm sure they weren't expecting such a sudden increase in price. I sure as hell didn't.
I can relate to the worries because I put some of my hard earned money onto here only to see it go down big time, but I do believe in the future of this platform. That's why I see this drop as a means to buy more Steem then I could usually afford. So I transferred as much as I cold risk as I live cheque 2 cheque, so every dollar matters from my coinbase to poloniex and bought Steem I believe @dan and @ned will always be looking to make this a better place for new and old users.
If people stop using Steem that would be the biggest problem. I don't blame @dantheman and @ned for cashing some money out. The price will go down, but just keep steemin and keep this thing moving forward.
I understand needing to sell, or redistribute steem... but why not break up the orders a little more? That puts less pressure on the overall price...
Its stupid to hope for more buyers only because the price is falling. Its falling on declining volume. It doesn't matter who dumped. It wasn't that much anyway.
A successful marketing would drive the price and the volume, but its not happening, because the people in charge seem to be either stoned, retarded or autistic.
The internal market is dead, that would be the point to start.
To add open.BTC and other tokens to it would be an option.
And then, if it really were the owners selling, why didn't they do it on OpenLedger, bringing some dough to their own platform?
exactly, there is no need to pay other exchanges fees. there is plenty of guys here who want to trade and to be honest this small pieces of money should be cash out without ANY market movements.
Does anybody know the current price of steem?
I thought it was tied to the us dollar?
I have not read the steemit white paper and am completley ignorant in how this currency works.
Thank you.
Steem/SteemPower isn't tied to anything. It inflates at about 100% per year, as a result in the long run it's safe to expect a 99,999999999999% devaluation.
Steem-Dollars are tied to the USD.
That should make you fully bullish! ;)
I'm a little late to the discussion, but there is a lot of speculation here, and assumptions that @dantheman and @ned are working with malicious intent.
A lot of other people have said things along these lines, but the key is - you don't know what they plan to use this money for. Most of the evidence has actually show that they are using this money to pay for things that make Steemit better.
What if they decided to add a new developer to the team, so they could start cranking out more enhancements faster?
You really don't know..
How can you tell @dan and @ned dumped there? How can you track that? Please explain!
Becouse they need have a exit strategy and so they will be ready to step new project after 2 years.
cashing out $50,000? wow
I am still learning but it really does not look good.
dubloon135
Or is it the beginning of the panic, which does not deserve their attention?
I recommend googling around and searching for other posts about the reason to drive the price down. It's a deliberate move I think. Drive price down, and then it will rise after. I not an expert on the market things, but its a strategy from what I understand, liquidity, investing, I don't know... lol. Peace.
Well researched i must say. Thanks to bring this up. It could create panic or get new buyers....
It's also not much money.
WOW!
Boost Payments $199.00
Can you back this up with some insightful analysis to explain why you think this is evidence of Ned and Dan dumping? Someone is dumping for sure, but I don't want to leap to conclusions without seeing more evidence. Presumably Dan and Ned would be smart enough to sell any significant amounts in small pieces spread out over a few days, to avoid affecting the market too much. To me this looks like traders exiting their positions after the recent pump turned out not to be confirmation of a new uptrend.
The transfers on the blockchain are unambiguous. The nature of this coin where STEEM is diluted rapidly means that it doesn't make sense to hold STEEM (as opposed to SP or SBD), nor to send it to an exchange,for an prolonged period. It is only reasonable to do so only for purposes of entry and exit. In this case exit is obvious.
That's a good point. You're right, it doesn't make sense to hold Steem for a long period of time and try to time the market. And I admit the timing lines up pretty well. I'm just surprised they wouldn't break it up into a series of smaller transactions spaced out a bit. I don't see the point in dumping all at once and moving the market like this, unless they needed the cash right away to cover some unexpected expense.
You make interesting points here and in your other posts. Why not make a full blog post because I never considered these scenarios. You're right, if they are pulling out a lot of Steem there are only a few things to do with them. My use for Steem would be to convert it to Steem Dollars because I can't see why I would ever want to hold Steem. At the same time it doesn't make sense to sell Steem by dumping either because that would make all of our Steem Power become worth less and less.
I've been following, listening to and reading up on dantheman for years. I've always found him to be honest, fair and full of integrity. With the reputation he has built I have no reason to distrust him and so let's wait and see how all of this plays out.
Your post is sensationalistic, but I upvoted because it's still important to bring attention to.
sigh
Dudes, Dudettes;
steemit.com is a business, those cost money to run. Often lots of money to run.
steemit.com is a web site, those cost money to run. I can say with experience-- lots of money to run.
Your response is illogical given that this coin has a $67 million "ninjamine", 25% of which is allocated to cover development costs. Money to run the business and the web site does not translate to coins being sold out of the founders' individual accounts.
deja vu all over again!
This doesn't need to be stopped: I hope to see more of it--
That's $50k or so going towards dev work.
Thanks @dan @ned and anyone else selling to support the codebase!
When you have a million dollars in something that might go poof overnight, it makes sense to convert some of that into other things. An altcoin maker which has some market success is going to sell some amount to bitcoin.
Steem is not bitcoin. I am glad I didn't power up last month. I wouldn't be surprised if Steem hits 40¢.
Thanks for your information..!
good question
I can sum all of this up in one word it is really simple, GREED.
How dare they! What a travesty!
You do realize that the big dump you refer to would amount to less than 50K USD and that if Ned and Dan decided to abandon Steem and go get jobs in Silicon Valley they each could probably earn 200K+ a year easily, right?
Dudes gotta get paid.
Are you people stupid ? Lamborghini's don't pay for themselves
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Either they wanted a new car, or they're trying to redistribute some of their voting power?
Those guys deserve to power down... Having the knowledge I would do the same. Cheerz.
And changing the homepage from #Trending to the #Home tab, which will be confusing a lot of people for awhile and conveniently lessen the effect of posts like this getting traction.