Dude, where’s our votes?
Before I even approach this subject, let me be clear. I am not complaining, or whining. This platform has been nothing short of a miracle for me, and even when there are no payouts to go along with it, I am so grateful for every single vote.
We hit a hardfork yesterday, you can find the details here:
A lot of talk happened (I was a small part of it, I guess) about the voting changes that were proposed as a part of it. It was decided and announced that there wouldn’t be any changes to limits or vote weighting, but I can’t help but think that there were changes in the psyche of our community.
Here’s a direct quote from the change: Vote Balancing We have reverted
the changes to vote balancing from 0.14.0. Voting power and vote
weights are unaffected in this release.
Yesterday, I received a comment that said, “I typically upvote your posts, but with the new limit in place, I cannot afford to do that since they just limited us to 5 votes a day two hours ago.” And another agreed with it.
I just saw a post that said after investigation, the writer found that even those that are voting are voting at less than full power, apparently under the impression that their votes have been changed.
Curie project, currently has a post with over 300 votes and less than $50 SBD in payout, it’s like steemageddon out here, but here’s the weird thing, Masteryoda says, we handed out more SBD yesterday than the day before, in fact, it’s going up up up.
And, I’m looking at my own posts and scratching my head.
Posts that are getting good comments and halfway decent votes, are not getting more than a few cents in payouts and my overall votes are down about 30%, on the same caliber of content I was putting out this whole time!
I wondered who else this was happening to and as I look around I realize, it’s epidemic.
So, while the voting is getting curtailed, and or power limited, (by the users, not the system) the competition is increasing. So, we are seeing posts sit at the top of the trending categordy with no competition and only one or maybe two over $1000 SBD at all at any given time.
So, what’s going on?
Well, first, let’s start with the fact that limits are always finite and definable.
Right now the new voting limits are in the users minds.
The same number of votes (more actually, since there are new users every day) and the same weight is available that was available two days ago, they just believe they’re not!
Second, potential and opportunity is always only limited by imagination!
The potential for payout is still there, and, in fact, bigger than ever, but we have to get the word out! So, I am asking you to help me by writing your own post explaining this, or resteeming this one. In order for steem to continue to gain acceptance, it has to be seen as activem and payouts are the most visible sign of that!
The news has not been all bad.
I’ve noticed that while I didn’t make much today, and not much better yesterday (in part my fault, for not posting my popular threads) there are some great new faces sharing fiction that are getting noticed in the vacuum. Here’s the thing, there’s more than enough to go around!
So, what do I plan to do about it personally?
• I’m going to stick to my plan, 4, awesome posts each day and I’m working toward getting them on a schedule so you know what to expect from me!
• I’m very, very close to launching the first printed book of fiction started on Steemit (that I know of) and I’m going to be selling it for steem dollars! (Benedict Cumberbatch and the League of Domesticated Assassins and other Steemit Stories)
• I’m going to keep helping people find their way, as long as the doors are open.
Here’s how I see it.
If there is someone on this platform getting the payouts I want, or
better, from fiction that is comparable in quality to my own, then the
problem isn’t in the system. The opportunity is still there! There’s
still oil/gold to be found! It’s all about consistency and audience
building.
The votes will eventually come back and those that turn tail and run will miss out!
Not only that, but there is a bigger picture at play here!
I read a post today reminding us all of what happened to those who owned just a small piece of the pie when Facebook went public, it made instant millionaires of a lot of people.
They owned a piece of that company and all of us that have received reward own that in steemit. As long as steem and the steemit platform continue to grow, the investment will increase in value. This is a long game!
So, that being said, if you have been holding back because you believed your votes limited, please read the link at the top of this article and STOP IT! You have 40 full power votes per day! USE THEM ALL! Spread the wealth. Vote for new people, vote for favorites, vote for things you think are important, but for God’s sake vote!
But PLEASE, I am begging you, don’t vote for me out of pity. Vote because you truly like my stuff and want to see it spread. I’m a big boy, if steemit dries up tomorrow, I’ve still got my stories and there are readers to be found.
Mucho thanks for posting this mark. You're an invaluable font of info. Have reblogged.
Well ,my theory has revamped a little. Other than the vote count being low that one day, most of the rest is due to low steem prices, which is our fault for letting things go so negative on here that the place looks like a bitch fest to new users.
I hadn't noticed the bitch-fest so maybe it's not so apparent to more casual users like myself? What I have noticed as a noob is not really all that surprising - the platform is a social network first, and content platform second. Personally I love what steemit offers for bloggers and users. What I don't like so much is all the 'gaming' - especially the gambling all-or-nothing aspect to payments, which means that many people vote largely for the popular horses that are most likely to pay out, and not primarily for the quality of the content. Right now it works for some authors who commit their whole time to the platform and do LOTS of postings and networking. Though even then I keep seeing posts with 200 votes that make no money, and this is concerning in that it might drive some people away. Also, for professional authors hoping to monetize serials and projects here - payments are too precarious, too hit-and-miss, to make that a practical option just now. Especially with a lack of a 'subscription' feature.
But I guess all this could change with an influx of new users and less 'gaming' in general, and a more even distribution of funds through dilution. It's easy to forget that it's still Steemit- BETA.
Anyway, I was still under the impression that I only had 5 power votes a day, so I appreciate you spreading the good news about this, and all your other helpful posts. I'm gladdened to see all your hard efforts and good work being rewarded here!
Spread the word! Since I put that up, my vote counts are up, but the price of steem being down keeps the SBD payout low daily, so not as much money. It will all come back and grow from there.
I think it's because of the vote slider. Prior to the implementation of vote slider, every whale's vote is worth the value and its amazing because even a single whale's vote like @smooth will make your post earn a good rewards.
Now, most of them (the whales) are using the slider to listen there vote weight, maybe they did this to spread their votes to various authors.
For me, a vote is a vote and its weight is absolute. If they wanted everybody to be benefited, they are so many ways rather than controlling the weight of their votes.
I think it makes more sense to have those who invested (either cash or time) to have more economic weight with their vote, but, I also think there's no reason that payout total should be the ONLY factor in getting on the trending page. This post, for example, has 50 comments. Why isn't it there?
I think I heard from @smooth that going to that page has changed. Instead of votes and comments, it now depends on the sp of the voters. It means that posts that starts to earn good rewards will be seen in the page.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. I think that's nonsense. It means that only big dolphins and whales decide what goes on the trending page.
Well, in my part, its not just few days, but ever since i started steeming.
Yeah right, if our post will not reach $150-$200 we cant get to that page. I hope Im wrong.
Exactly, unless they upvote it, you're way down at the bottom of it, where I've been for the past couple of days.
I vote quite a bit, every single day since I joined here in mid June. I haven't changed the amount that I vote, and I knew that the voting weight issue was not implemented in the latest hard fork.
For me, what has changed is reblogging.
I now have twice as many posts in my feed. I do my best to look at every post in my feed, every day. I still vote more often for a post that is not reblogged, because it is in my feed as a result of my following the author. But maybe 25% of my voting is now for reblogged posts, so that lowers the votes I have time and weight to give to the authors I personally followed.
Maybe others are also having tis experience, and could be part of the reason for what you see. Who knows what next week and next month will bring. It's still the most exciting site on the web, in my opinion! This IS a long game; I'll be here a while and sounds like you will too, and I'm glad about that!
Yep, I'll stay as long as I can. Whether I can keep doing it at this level or not remains to be seen. You can look at Steemstats.com and find the weight of every single vote cast on any post.
I have upvoted with my full power and resteemed your post.
Thanks, whale. I'm just trying to sort things out. LOL I'm sure there's a logical explanation. Without understanding the technical mumbo jumbo on steemstats, I can't really tell if the payout counter makes sense or not. It's awfully low for this post to be over 70 votes already.
I'm definitely seeing less votes on comments lately. I think every vote has a value regardless of the algorithms as it shows support. I can only make a tiny amount from curation for now, so I'll just vote on anything I think deserves it.
I think there's still a lot of misunderstanding about votes. There's not a hard limit to how many times you can vote in a day. I think it's just that the value will vary. After you vote it takes a certain time for the voting power to go up again. One issue for me is that I do spurts of voting between other tasks. Most won't spread their votes over the whole day.
It seems the whales have limited their own voting power, or the hardfork did indeed redistribute the wealth. Either way it looks to me like there is precious little reward, even at the top of the deck and that means spam will increase, third world writers will thrive (they can live well on a few dollars a day, no offense to them) and steemit will begin to look like the rest of the interwebs. I hope that's not true. The idea of an egalitarian site where merit is rewarded is exciting.
Interesting. Thank you for posting. A problem must be defined before a solution can be determined.
I think the problem is people don't want to just show up and work, they feel everything needs to meet their standards before they can succeed.
Thank you for your reply. You are probably right. It takes determination and dedication even if it is on a small scale. Alternative media sites would do well here, it seems it would be a good fit.
Maybe, if someone at the top doesn't decide to target them, like what's being done to @masteryoda
Very interesting. Followed.
I just joined today and am trying to figure out how this works. So we get 40 "full power" votes per day? From what I understand newcomers don't have as much influence as others.
I'm sure I'll learn as I go. Thanks for the post!
Start by finding the other dolphinschool posts on my blog and let me know if you have questions. Good luck!
Ah, "dolphinschool." I kept seeing minnow/fish/whale analogies. Alright, thanks!
Okay, so a plankton is a beginner, where you are. A minnow, is anyone between 1 and 10,000 Steem power, a dolphin is above that and a whale is at the very top of the food chain. It matters, because each group has more weight to their votes. A whale vote can add 100s or even 1000s to a payout.
There are many of us who have noticed exactly what you are referencing. Its a very odd phenomenon that spread quite quickly. Thank you for creating such a clear and concise article explaining the reality of the situation. I'll be posting one soon if I can find the time.
I'm hoping this is all it is, and it's not something that got changed behind the scenes. It's weird how clear the cut is between yesterday and today.
Oddly, I began noticing it a few days before the hardfork occurred, but mainly on comments. I think it will settle back out once people realize what's going on.
I hope so, I'd like to understand the patterns on steemstats better. I had a vote from a whale on this post a few minutes ago, but it's certainly not showing up and his vote says 100% but his voting power is the same as a plankton I know. Weird.
I'm a noob that's been on steemit less than 2 weeks. Your posts are very helpful. Still lot's for me to learn e.g. can you change the amount that you vote and if so how do you do it and what are the ramifications?
Is there a way for the community to draw whales attention to good articles? I've looked at the curie project and it seems like a positive initiative. Can the community help them (and other whales) to identify quality content?
Liked and resteemed - thank you.
I've read a few posts from curie,but I don't know the answer to your question. If you go to the search bar and put in the @ symbol followed by any screenname, you'll find a link to their blog where you can get that information
I think they should put how many votes you have on the slider will mean members will see it everytime they vote
The number is not actually limited. It's the power that fluctuates based on votes in a five day cycle until it recharges, I think.
Go to steemstats.com and put in your screen name, you'll find the number of votes you've cast, your voting power and a whole lot of other stuff.
I don't have much voting power, I'm working on that
I've noticed this trend also. Thank you for posting this. Maybe with your clarification things will get back to the way they were.
Do you want me to re-post this?
I would love to have this reposted. Thanks! I'm looking into the weight of votes and the payouts too. It's not making a lot of sense. I'm wondering if the vote changes were truly removed from the update.
I have wondered also. I'm reposting. Thanks again.
It's rather simple actually - when you are a new author and get somewhere between $0.00 and $0.10, do you enjoy the profit, at 75% for you?
Or would you rather prefer 25% out of $10, because a whale spotted your new article and deemed it good enough for an upvote?
Good point. I think Steemit is great, but the inner workings are confusing. I learn more about ot every day. Thank you.
I thought there was a certain amount of money that is spread among however many votes there are? So, all of the rewards should be going out? Am I wrong? I saw some posts asking the whales not to vote for a few days, and I actually wondered if that is what is creating the lower payout amounts. I agree something has happened.
The other thing that is not being accounted for is the serious drop in votes by number. I was hitting an average of over 100 votes per post, 3 to 4 posts a day, today and yesterday I saw about a 30% decrease in the number of votes. Perhaps they were just following the whales?
Another thought and a good one. If the whales didn't vote all of their bots wouldn't follow them. Also all the curation bots wouldn't have their posts to upvote!
Mystery solved, man. http://catchawhale.com/ there has literally been NO whale action today at all, and without the whales to gain curation from, the smaller voters are abstaining, shifting the balance.
Why would anyone ask the whales not to vote for a few days? Links to those posts? Curious thanks for the comment!
The idea was to take their power out of the voting pool, since it will be distributed anyway. I will look for the posts.
Well, that's interesting, but sucks to be me, I was making decent money a couple of days back, now bupkus
If that were the case, each vote should currently be worth more, based on that, but I think when the whales refrain, the amount just goes down. My vote is worth two or three cents, sometimes more if there is already a payout on the post.
I will find the posts as it describes a specific outcome that would happen if the whales didn't vote. Be patient, I shall be back!
Sorry, not being impatient.
Interesting. but even in that post the author admits, they don't fully understand it. Perhaps I will end up better off at the end of the day than I think? LOL
Oh, I didn't think you were being impatient. I just wasn't sure how fast I could find them. Here is one. https://steemit.com/steem-ideas/@dennygalindo/a-day-of-whale-abstinence-will-answer-the-question
and the other - read the comments as well. So, I agree something has changed and I don't know if this is the issue. https://steemit.com/steem/@luminousvisions/safe-steemit-1-day-voting-moratorium-for-the-whales
I always make sure I reblog, maybe someone will have enough weight to make a difference.
Maybe. If everything gets decentralized to this point, then there is more equity. Problem is, that means each post gets scraps. Period.
I've actually suggested a sleek solution to the whole curation and reward distribution problem, but the devs haven't reacted so far - if there's a way to let them know, please do!
Solution to the curation and rewards problem!
Dek, I don't know that there is. I managed to attract Dan's attention on one post by adding his name to the title and calling it an open letter to the powers that be. I don't think there actually is a problem with the system. I think once it matures, the number of bigger accounts will even it out some. I think they should wait and let it be what it is. No one has the right to upset the apple cart with their first vote. Those who either invested cash, or time, deserve to have more power and they won't have as much once the dolphin class develops.
Maybe you're not aware, but the developers are constantly updating (messing with) the system, and changes are introduced constantly. I'm merely suggesting one, which will benefit everyone - certainly not a huge change to the system!
I'm not saying your idea has no merit, but payouts have only been happening since July 4th. So, since we really only have less than 90 days of history to see how it's working, perhaps the constant tweaking is a part of the problem?
Well, most of the problem comes from bots and users exploring the system, which results in constant tweaking - and some of the decisions taken are completely illogical.
For example, the 30 minute penalty on the voting weight of early curators, resulted only in users getting less for their curating efforts, but bots remaining just as powerful - their developers simply tweaked them to vote after the 30th minute.
Sometimes Steemit looks like a pyramid scheme. And if many more such illogical decisions are taken and good ones like mine remain ignored, this suspicion may turn out to be true.
I took a look at your idea.
I think it would have a negative impact.
If you disincentivize new users, no new established accounts can ever emerge. Professional writers, like myself, see potential in the platform because the earning potential is equal. Everything else on the site is slanted toward established authors already.
The voting power structure will right itself as more whales develop and even more dolphin scale accounts are created. Writers with real quality voices will rise, and those who either don't have what it takes to draw an audience, or have no staying power will fade, if things are left alone to even out over time.
I'm replying here, because I can't reply to your last post.
I think you got my idea completely the other way around. The idea is to give curators 75% share of articles by new (poor) authors, so both whales and minnows have an incentive to sort trough new content.
The richer an author becomes, the less the curation reward (on a progressive scale, up to the current 25%). It's a clear win to vote for someone whose articles usually cash out, right? That's why there needs to be an incentive to look through the articles of new authors (hence my suggested 75% for new authors).
That's it. People will actually read the articles. Wealth is slightly better distributed among good authors. New bad authors still won't get cash.
Yes, that completely robs new authors, since steem power comes through payout, as well as cash incentive to keep going. It will have the effect of completely killing new writers after the first couple of votes. I think your idea didn't get attention, simply because it would be detrimental to the system. The creator of the post deserves the lion's share of the profit, period. Why should someone who just finds my hard work get more than me?
Good stuff.
Upvoted + following.
I'm a writer too.
Take a look on my short stories and I hope you like them ;)
I will Dresden, is that your name, or did you pull that from the "files"? HA
Hehe!
It's my penname :P
Clever, steem on!
I can't agree enough. Especially at we need to stick at this, push through and therefore receive the greatest results! No point turning away from a few days bad payouts when there is so much possibility!
Yep. It wasn't so much bad payouts as wonky. If they think making every payout on the site equal a dollar each day, they are going to have spam. Spam everywhere as far as the eye can see.
I agree, the past two days have been weird. Maybe a lot of users are taking the 'wait and see' approach as related to the fork, I don't know. I will be ReSteeming this post because you've done a great job articulating the weirdness - Steem ON
Thanks gringalicious! I appreciate all of these comments. Glad to know it wasn't just me effected. I was starting to feel black balled somehow! LOL
Hi Mark, I am still voting like a fiend. The only difference now is that I dropped my voting power to 20%. Occasionally I will up it higher for a post that really stands out to me. My curation rewards have dropped like a rock but that is ok. My blogging rewards have also fallen off a cliff. That is ok today. Lke the end of you article says I am here for the long term opportunity. I also placed a big bet and time on Tsu and lost. It was a great learning experience and I brought it here. ; )
There was no reason for you to do that, hilarski. Your vote weight was not enough to make your vote impactful at 20%, and you still have the same number and power of votes that you had before. So, why did you do that? Vote weight (total for the day) helps to determine SBD payouts. When we lower the total weight, the payout drops.
Who knows what will be with voting next! :) And SP distribution is still far from being good
Well, we can either have a welfare state, where everyone gets all their SP from a centralized hand out "equally" or a meritocracy, where we are free to vote on posts as we see fit to raise, or lower the profiles of those that we think deserving.
The only time I don't vote 100% is in comments. As a growing minnow, to do anything less is really ridiculous!
Consistency is key and building an audience is really the name of the game on any platform. Steemit is no different in that aspect.
I'd like to touch on what you said about posting your more popular threads. As a fiction writer, I think this is a great platform for it but not getting the attention that it should. I'm not saying it's a popularity content necessarily, but it seems the art tag followers are a little more giving and supportive and fiction, with the exception of a choice few, isn't getting any attention. In fact, I just checked the tags and #fiction isn't even on the list.
How do we fix this and bring fiction to life here? I hate to admit that my participation on Steemit is starting to be guided by what gets votes. I haven't written fiction in about 2 weeks and my beloved researched articles are falling by the wayside in lieu of photographs and original art.
Again, I ask: How do we fix this?
Fiction was on the list. Hmmm, weird. Are you sure? It's been a growing category.
I've looked on Streems (in Steemd.com) and on the tags and topics list on Steemit. Even did a search for 'fiction' with no results. I can't think of any other place to look with the exception of saving this link: https://steemit.com/trending/fiction to bookmarks.
Well, that's the category, I guess, but no label for it. I don't know how those labels get added. No idea.
The really sad thing that I see is, at the time of my reply, is that you have 167 votes and only $1.93. I wish I was a filthy rich whale and I could upvote your post to a respectful dollar amount. If I ever get to the whale level, I'll come back to one of your future posts to pump up your dollars.
Hey, I'm getting more votes than ever! but my payouts are shitty, something changed in that hard fork. I know it did. They're lying.
Maybe the slider option? It may be a sympathy vote with no monetary value?
Love this title...hilarious!
Thanks! It was originally, dude, where's MY votes, but Donald Trump is sucking up all of the narcissism lately and I didn't feel he needed the competition.
Hi @markrmorrisjr, stopping back to let you know that this post was one of my favourite posts yesterday. You can read my comments about the post here.
A great post, really liked it. It is indeed all very confusing reading about Whales and Dolphins and Captain Ahab's - But I suppose bitching goes with the Wild West cryptocurrency territory. And people are so touchy. I have added, what I believe is good original content/short stories to Steemit. I mean you got to be entertained while you build a new world. So for the moment I am enjoying the ride;D~
Well, at first, I noticed there was a more positive vibe to all of the comments, but it went sour when steem went down and SBD payouts got tighter.