We're different here, but not different enough, at least not yet.
We have two problems, and I have one solution for both.
First problem, the little guy. He arrives with a suitcase full of hopes and dreams, and a reputation of 25.
He'll pick it up as he goes along.
Except he found a popular post and spammed the comments.
He offered to follow for follow, or posted with popular tags, instead of pertinent ones.
He's worked it out now, and learned his lesson, but the damage is done.
It's possible to reset, start again with a new name, but it's not easy, and not everyone has the skills. We'd also prefer they didn't.
Now a lot of this we can't help, but one big downvote magnet will have been his comments on posts, particularly the posts of orcas and whales.
He should have learned how to swim by paddling in the shallows , but we let him dive straight in to the briny deep and he drowned.
My suggestion would have slowed him down a little, and maybe that's a good thing.
The other problem is the big guy, a celebrity. Let's say Ashton Kutcher.
I can't comment on Ashton's posts here. Ned himself can't.
Nobody can because Ashton isn't here.
That's our baseline for comparison, zero Ashton. So how do we increase our total Ashton?
He may be on twitter, he may be on facebook, he may engage on those platforms a lot or a little, but wherever he chooses to engage with the public, he has to deal with trolls.
They're noise, they get in the way, and they do it because it costs them nothing.
I suggest, that when checking the 50/50 or 100% boxes, and typing in the tags, there should be a new slider, where the author can manually select the minimum reputation required to comment on the post.
I raised this idea 9 months ago, and I think the platform has matured sufficiently to put it back on the table.
The big, immediate objection is that it would make it harder for the little guy to build his reputation.
But let's take a closer look.
Most posters want comments. I imagine the average slider bar selection would be about 30.
Lots of posters would leave it on the current default of 25, a few larger orcas would probably bump it up to 40 or 50, and real heavyweights like Ned and Ashton would have it on 60 or 65.
Newcomers like our friend Alaa Abu Jabal would likely be capable of commenting on the majority of posts from the outset.
As he grew in reputation, and became more familiar with the expectations of the community, he'd be capable of commenting on more and more of those few posts initially denied him by the slider bar, and that's a good thing.
I'm sure if we asked him, he'd suggest that this limitation would have helped him a lot, by keeping him out of the path of big downvoting whales, until he learned to swim.
Ashton, by all accounts, is a great guy. He's personable and fun, and I'm sure he'd like to chat with everyone who wants to chat with him, but logistics get in the way.
There are too many of us, and too few of him.
Is it better that nobody gets to comment on his posts because he's not here, or that only some people can, only after consistently doing the right thing?
Some celebrities ration their time by appearing at conventions, where the entry price filters out those would couldn't afford or didn't prioritise the price of admission.
What I was really trying not to do was have elitist tickets.
I didn’t want people to pay $170 and get front row tickets and a meet and greet. I hate that shit.
The moment you allow a kid with a rich father to have more things than a kid with a poor father I think that’s shit.
It’s great that $99 is affordable, but I wanted it to be the same price for everyone. - Ed Sheeran
I think a system more appealing to the fairer minded celebrity, would be one where anyone at all could have a few seconds of their time, just by demonstrating a history of kind, respectful, insightful discourse.
And this is exactly what we have with the current reputation system
You don't need money to get into fight club, you just need to stand on the porch for a few days.
@cryptogee just posted a great piece about the dangers of spamming comments, and used a house party as an analogy
If we own our posts like we own our house, shouldn't we be able to decide who comes to the party?
Wouldn't that keep everyone on their best behaviour?
Quick edit: Ed Sheeran just quit Twitter, sick of dealing with trolls.
What are your thoughts?
Wow! What a freaking great idea; I wish I had thought of this!! Please, please, link this on the comments in my article.
This is EXACTLY what I was talking about when linking super relevant content, I mean you didn't even link it and I'm here, and I read the whole damn thing.
I love the Fight Club analogy, it's true, just stand on the porch for a few days, get the vibe, and then Steem on.
Wish I could give you 3 randowhale votes for this one!
It's got me so pumped I'm going exclamation mark crazy I tells ya!!!!
!
!!
:-)
Cg
Thanks mate :)
I'm pretty enthusiastic about the idea too.
I've posted a link in the comments of your article. Let's see if it gets some traction.
I'd love to see it rolled out; it'd do a lot of good.
Yeah, let's hope so... I think the reason we haven't properly engaged before is coz you're in Oz, you're off to bed as I'm waking up :-)
Speaking of which, I gotta get off Steemit, and get little 'un ready for school!
Cg
untill steemit reaches 1M weshould not kill minnows like that jabal guy...we must all reach the 1M then after we set the rules on the first official version ... dont kill the spammy minnows we need them lol
I would love to see this option too; for a while I had no idea what I was doing but now this makes so much sense!
Exactly. Training wheels that keep you out of traffic :)
The reputation score is both a help and a hindrance.
I've been here for a couple of weeks and I've noticed that if one has a score of 50+ then people will upvote anything they post. It could be the last toenail they clipped onto the loungeroom rug and people will upvote because they know others will upvote so their curator payout will be higher and they get to score some points with someone with more voting influence.
If one's score is lower it is more difficult. I have been posting images of quite high quality (if I do say so myself) for 2 weeks. I get great feedback in lovely replies, but not as much upvoting as I might have expected. I believe this is because an upvote on my post is not a safe bet. It might not return a high curator payout and, worse, it might even bring their average down.
I don't know if there is a solution to this, and I'd be hesitant to offer one because I love the reputation score. One of my favourite things about Steemit is that my feed isn't clogged with cats and buzzfeed articles like my facebook feed and I believe it is the reputation score that maintains this awesomeness.
Please also don't take the above as sour grapes, I am just making an observation. I'll gladly do my time in the low ranks, continue posting quality content and slowly climb the social ladder... You know... If it's not too much of a risk for you to upvote my posts... :)
Wish that where true, that with the score from 50 plus. :)
Haha maybe it's just the impression looking from down her at sub-40 :) I was kind of hoping it were true, I have so many toenail clipping photos just ready to roll out...
lol and lol to the previous
Upvoted and followed.
I think there is quite a lot of that, although total followers makes a big difference too.
I think reputation is sometimes forgotten compared with other measures of success like steem power.
I'd like to see people trying to improve their rep to enjoy the privilege of commenting on more exclusive posts.
It would be a great reason to stay engaged during a price drop too.
Thanks Matt :)
I agree, I think the value of Steemit as a social media platform is in the quality of posts and the engagement of the audience, and I think Steem is a good motivator to post quality content, but I hope there is a way to stop people from trying to shortcut the system.
Really, quality content delivered to an engaged community should be its own reward, and the potential for money is a nice bit of icing on the cake :)
I'm all about the followers.
People trust me with their eyeballs, makes me happy.
I like that philosophy :)
It must be hard for any celebrity to really use social media. They will get bombarded with comments from fans and trolls. The reputation slider might help here. Eventually we may need more tools, but these could be built on top of the blockchain. There could be dedicated apps to help people deal with spam and mass commenting.
interesting concept, this would change things alot,
-even this brand new HF 19 that has been put in has seemed to slow my growth down, it seems like people are lot less willing to vote now, but I suppose thats what this Steem ocean is all about , adapting and learning to change swim patterns,
cheers @mattclarke
In my opinion some people will just never learn how to swim cause they don't want to. They're here for the money and They prefer to spam people than put a little bit of efford and write something valuable.
You're probably right, so this would be a spam filter to keep them from commenting rubbish on our posts, or it may inspire them to take a look at their behavior.
Thanks @mattclarke for your post that I had to read 2 times. You are making a point. But we noobs also need a maximum reputation slider or we will be wasting a lot of time of the experienced folks.
You're saying you write an article and prohibit anyone above a given reputation from commenting?
I don't follow how that would prevent high rep steemers from wasting their time.
They could still read the article.
I think this is a very practical solution to the problem. I mean if this is a platform based on quality content, and that is what we're rewarded for, then why not have a system where those who have earned it get to comment in the big leagues. I think it would decrease spam and raise the level of quality content in posts and comments. Great article @mattclarke!
Thankyou, Natasha.
I think a month after being added, it would be one of those features that people can't live without. Following.
Early bird Tash! Are you Steeming today?? I totally agree with you on this comment. This is why were all trying to get to a reputation of 100 - for a spam-free network. I hope to hit the elite club of 70 by the end of July?? Only 100 Steemers are at this level. You keep Steeming and you'll hit 60 before long, as your quality work has legs :) @mindhunter
Lol yes I am! Thanks @mindhunter for all your lovely support! I definitely hope to get to 60 soon, and am working on building my following and putting out lots of quality content :)
The best advice I can give you is swap them 10 SBD in your wallet for Steem, then power them up! Click on your SBD balance to convert them to Steem [Just a hint if you so wish??] Steem power is your biggest ally on Steemit - you've already got the quality writing part nailed Natasha :) I'm always here if you need any help. Steem on!!
Thanks @mindhunter! Really appreciate that :)
Once you get to 500 SP you'll be a dolphin like me :) Wanna be a whale? 100K+ SP! WOW!!
Oh I see :)
This post received a 2.4% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @cryptogee! For more information, click here!
thanks so much for the crumpet money haha :) You're sweet
Just trying to bring some civilization to the new world, enjoy :)
I am in favor of a minimum reputation score to comment on a post. That sounds like a sound suggestion and prove beneficial. Though with hF19 I wonder if that would compliment or cause concerns as with the change in upVotes. Intriguing concept though. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
I think it will be great to have a reputation slider bar as this will allow newbies to grow together and learn more of the platform. I guess those who did not research the platform thoroughly and is only after reputation and quick money is causing those troubles.
I think it's a great idea, I've only been here for a fortnight and it is a big ocean, we need to learn how to swim the shallows before we head out into the deep and get eaten by a whale. I'm lucky enough to have some people who have been around a lot longer than me giving some sound advice. Not everyone is that lucky.
Exactly. It's not about excluding anyone.
It's like a little fence around a sapling.
Just keeps the thing from getting damaged while it's little and vulnerable.
Why not, it can protect some people, and you can also do some "private post" for an event or project or any other thing you want to share but only with some people. Dont know how it can be implemented but want to see what it can do.
I'm sure implementing it would be fairly straightforward (says the guy with zero coding skills).
I'm sure private and group messaging are on the agenda, whether here or over a different interface.
Private group and messaging can really change the thing, i feel a bit sad sometimes without private message, cause i want to speak with some people without having of post a comment on their post. Let see what can happen, but i totally agree with you.
You can always scroll right down their blog to a long forgotten one and comment there.
Technically others can see it, but nobody will be notified, and they're unlikely to check.
Thanks for this - Steemit scares me in so many ways as a newbie and I do like to follow the rules, so I just sit here in my corner typing away and enjoy posting - that way I keep out of trouble and I sure the rest will fall in place at the right time
In the years to come, anyone on here before 2018 is going to be revered as an ultra early adopter.
I'm not saying they'll build statues of us, but I'm not promising they won't :)
Love this answer - really made me giggle
You're the 184,063rd person to jump on board. You'll brag about that after 2020.
I'm in the first 50K :)
Wow I do not know how you know that but it is impressive - now it sounds like whaaaattttt?? so many before me, but like you say in 2020 we will say wow look at us.
https://steemd.com/@anneke
Yup. Also have a look at https://steemdb.com/@anneke/followers/whales
To see who your wealthiest followers are. Lots of fun and stats :)
Great post matt, it's very hard for newbies to get noticed alright, most people just don't have the time to spend building giant support networks to pull in the big votes. They are just left on the fringes collecting crumbs along the way, even if the do great posts. But it's good to see some people actually care enough to try and do something about it. Cheers my friend
This idea is pretty damn good actually!
I would be able to publish my Steemit 101's and such for minnows, and I could let all of them reply on those posts.. But with something like this, I could go fishing in deep waters too. I love it.
Enough said, make this happen!
Thanks mate. Different content creators have different tolerances for low rep input, from day to day and from topic to topic.
They should be free to decide.
Set it too low, drown in spam; set it too high, crickets
Nice article! I like your writing style.
The slider idea makes sense but it gets too technical and too much focus on the money. Just my opinion.
Thanks for sharing it. I certainly wouldn't want to increase the complexity of posting, particularly for new steemers.
It could be incorporated quite unobtrusively, using a box like the 'promote' one.
Call it 'restrict'.
Only when you click it do you get a slider letting you restrict commenting based on reputation.
Anyone who didn't care or understand could just ignore it.
Great article...... I have to think about that..... Keep sharing..... I hv already followed you
Thanks @bluec, for your kind words.
I'm always thinking about stuff, and always happy to hear from others :)
https://steemit.com/photography/@bluec/photo-shoot-event-of-the-universe-s-most-precious-creation
I wish I had something valuable to contribute here but I really have no opinion on the issue. I do however like the Ed Sheeran quote :)
It was damn hard to get tickets to his Melbourne show.
I never got the appeal of live music.
He did a great acoustic set on a boat, floating down a river. I'd rather have that playing on YouTube than brave the crowds.
Live music on a boat is awesome. In a stadium with 50,000 other people, not so much. I did manage to score two tickets to the fourth Melbourne show but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I'm not invited.
Stay home. Crack a bottle of red, put on some high quality headphones, and enjoy any song you like. Parking's easy too. It's your own driveway ;)
"He arrives with a suitcase full of hopes and dreams, and a reputation of 25."
How did you know?
I remember August.
@mattclarke, you are a smart guy! I feel like steemit has definitely changed some dynamics even in the couple of months that I have been on. This makes sense. :)
Thanks, @tlester. You're an excellent judge of character ;p
The whole place is still finding it's feet.
Very exciting to be discovering steemit as steemit discovers itself.
Sounds like a good improvement, great idea @mattclarke! One great side-effect I want to mention is the fact that it breaks the ‘cheater mindset’ immediately. By limiting new users a bit, they’ll find out soon enough that it actually requires effort and good content to build their reputation. It weeds out the people that are trying to trick the system.
Thought experiment: What would happen if we take it to a more extreme level (don’t get mad people :-P ): low reputation users cannot post immediately?
It requires everybody to work on their reputation with high quality comments first. Would this serve a similar purpose? Would this dramatically reduce low quality/unoriginal/copied posts because everybody learns from the start that you need to contribute in a valuable way to the platform?
Let me know your thoughts...
I get where you're coming from, but I'm not a fan of universal restrictions like that.
My suggestion is case by case, based on the author's judgement.
We'd hate for Tom Clancy to come check out the platform and find himself unable to post until he proves himself...
Great read as I have a lot to learn. Thank you @mattclarke
Very cool, thought provoking post.
As one of the n00bs that is still happy treading water with my feet still firmly on the floor in the shallow end, can I ask what sort of scope there is for user's suggestions like this actually being implemented?
Great question. Followed.
There's no formal mechanism I'm aware of.
I know one of the witnesses, @timcliff was keeping a wishlist of ideas at one point.
Not sure if he's still doing so.
Last time I raised this he said he liked it and was adding it to the wishlist, but I haven't heard anything since.
There are a lot of tweaks and suggestions the development team are considering at any point, which makes it hard to get a hearing, but I'm confident there are smart, influential eyeballs quietly noticing well considered suggestions.
Cheers Matt. Still getting my head around the platform and the nature of development teams in both the development of new cryptocurrencies and this platform.
Keep churning out the good ideas! :)
That's a fantastic idea. I'm sorry I didn't see it 9 months ago when you suggested it. Yes, a minimum rep for commenting, amazing idea. You have a new follower
Thankyou mate. Like I said, though, this would be entirely at the author's discretion.
Absolutely, totally agree
I like this idea. Too bad I only just saw this post but hey it's not too late so I'm gonna upvote it and resteem it so it might get the attention it deserves :]
Thankyou mate. Appreciate the support and encouragement :)
I think this is a really good idea! It would help to keep the little minnows out of the big whales mouth until it's time they grew up a little bit, learned the world around them.
Thankyou. It works at both ends. I'm sure a lot of celebrities would enjoy a site with a built in troll filter.
I like the idea which will be great for someone new to at least learn how everything works here before shooting himself in the foot unknowingly, I guess it can be viewed as some form of protection for the new and weak :)
Dude i literally loved this article, you're a best, worthy of a resteem. At first i thought it was a "fuck followers for followers guys" but damn was i wrong, you put it so good
Thanks, @johnyboi.
It's nearly a week old now, and the responses have been overwhelmingly positive. Really appreciate the resteem as I'd like to see it in front of the right eyeballs to have it discussed.
Such a great article and pics. Upvoted!
Thankyou styxer. Have a great day.
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That is great right there, early on in your piece.
-- you really are a beaut. Always good things to say and share buddy.
Yes, I voted for this even though it is 2 mths old.
In my reply to Dan, on his article one time, (which I then turned into a post a couple months later, it was that long LOL)
You would have been paid on this vote of mine today.
I voted as a show of support, just because of who you are and the value like this, you always bring Matt.
Brilliant idea! I love the thinking that went behind it and effort you took to write a post about it. I also love that you're actively trying to make the community better. You're the kind of person I like following. Cheers
Thanks mate. We're still in beta, so now's the time to think through the possibilities and speak up :)
I know I'm late to the upvote party, but I jyust want to chime in that this is a great idea! Maybe Ashton will join when there are Steemians with a reputation of 100, lol. But seriously, this seems like such a good idea.
Thankyou. It simply and elegantly solves two problems, and as time goes by, I think it's going to become more obvious that we need to roll something like this out.
NO! It's like limiting free speech!
It wouldn't limit anyone's ability to submit their own posts, it just gives the OP scope to set a requirement for posting comments, and even then, only in advance, and only based on reputation score.
Yes but what if someone with a score of 30 has something really useful to say on the post, that might help to author in someway, but they can't comment if the author sets their slider to 40. Surely having the ability to downvote spammers is enough?
There's a lot of grey area, (middle ground), between spam and valuable comments.
I guess the flipside to your example is, 'What if someone with something really valuable to say is never read because they're buried under 100 "excellent post, please follow me" copy/paste jobs?"
SO how about a flag for the comments then? Might be a better solution?
That's what we have at the moment.
Oh ha ha ha!!! I didn't even notice that, I have never has to flag anyone!
I like the idea , but I am not sure this will work. I have people in their mid to high 50's also spamming, and I have a lot of new low rep people who comment on my page. The little message I have at the bottom of every post seems to help a lot. I honestly don't know if it would help or not , on one hand I could set my rep slider at 60 and pretty much eliminate the spam, on the other hand I may loose a lot of non spamming followers I have now and future followers by doing so. I guess it is worth a try , The spamming is only going to get worse as steemit starts growing faster.
I'm sure different strategies would be trialled by different steemers.
With the slider, a spammer might never get to 50 in the first place, and we're all only a couple of big flags away from the kiddy pool ourselves.
If you set it too high and missed all those minnow comments you'd miss out, so don't do that. I'm not suggesting a change to the minimum rep, just that the author should be able to change it. Down, even maybe.
(If you want to help people out of holes they've dug themselves into). Power to the poster.
I could see that working, it would hopefully stop them until they knew the rules. Got to do something to stop them
great article...
This is a good idea - maybe some bouncer-bots can be written :-p
Hey guys it's me Ashton Kutcher, I didn't wanna use my real name or everyone would be spamming my account but it is me in the flesh Ashton Kutcher from that 70's show. Upvote my comment please :)
Hate to be all skeptical, Ashton, but you're going to have to prove it by sending through some pictures of Mila's boobs.
I wish there were an easier way.
Hey proof its me Ashton
Hey how does someone wind up with a score of 2? I read somewhere if someone gets flagged or downvoted. I don't even see an option on here for a downvote. Just curious how someone's score goes lower?
The little flag on the right of each post or comment is the downvote.
If I downvote someone's post, I use up some of my voting power and stand to gain no reward, so it's something people are reticent to do unless it's really warranted.
But just like a whale can make you rich and drive your reputation up quickly, he can also destroy it quickly.
I'd suggest our friend attracted some negative attention from a heavy hitter, who then flagged not just that post, but many more in his profile.
I've seen someone in the negatives before.
Hey matt, thanks for the explaination. i've heard people talk about downvotes but never really knew what they meant