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6 years ago in #steemit by rok-sivante (77)
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IMO it's an educational problem. Yes, we have a standard and we have rules in this network, but they're neither clearly communicated nor does the majority of users feel the need to live them.
We've been talking about the need of an in-depth onboarding that includes tutorials and a profound explanation of the network's rules BEFORE people join this community and go crazy on the blockchain for ages. We could even reward people for watching tutorials (or even doing a short test afterwards), I mean we have all the necessary tools to incentivate whatever task.
It's so unefficient to pass on education and then leave it to the already overloaded steemcleaners team to try fix the problems later on. Few regular users use their VP to downvote which is another educational problem. We're all accountable to the efficiency of this network which is part of the decentralized idea. But how many could even explain the term decentralized? ................ and so on.
With regards to witnesses: it would be nice to have a control system in such way that already elected top witnesses would need to educate the new ones. Every sub-community should take care of their own members, like that duties are shared.
We'll be growing long white beards talking about these topics...
Resteemed to provide it with a little more attention.
Having only been on here for a month now I am a little confused by all of this, although I get the gist of what is going on, but i personally would have benefited from having a run down of the rules etc before joining. Although there is a great deal of information in the FAQ i must say some of it is still confusing if you are totally new to all of this and i have not always found the answer i needed on there. Minds.com rewards people for time spent interacting, watching, i think incentives do work.
Great ideas!
Thank you!
Hi rok. I agree with you that is spamming and not a sincere comment at all. If you are going to make a comment and want to be supported don't have a generic comment do your dirty work for you.
🙌
And from a WITNESS... that is the shit the disgusts me!
I'm sorry, but this is an utterly obtuse and irresponsible post, especially for someone that's been around here for quite a while. Are you not aware by now that ANYONE can run a witness?? Are you not aware that it's the job of the community (NOT Steemit Inc. or any other centralized entity) to support or not support a witness WITH OUR VOTES...and that this person has no support from the community to speak of? Are you not aware that if this person was an elected block-producing witness, they would likely lose support of the community if they started spamming like this?
The funny and sad thing about all this is that if I wanted to cause some mischief around here, I might run a witness and start spamming for the votes of obtuse and irresponsible people with high reps in hopes of inducing them to make a federal case out of it, trash talk the platform, cause FUD among newbies, and maybe even rage quit over it.
My god, man, get a hold of yourself. Seriously.
Guess I was delusional that witnesses “should” be held accountable to some sort of standard of acceptable conduct.
And you’re correct - I ought to get ahold of myself. I did go off with this. This isn’t the first time I’ve allowed myself to be swayed with some of the faults of the way this platform is governed, and ought to have recognized when it was time to pull away. There are times when I might let my emotional reactions get the best of me, and you’ve clearly identified that this was one of those times. And I respect your calling it out as such.
Nonetheless, I shall not apologize for calling out bullshit when I witness members of this community being outright conned and spammed by someone who’s presenting themselves as a “leader”here. Perhaps I did overreact. Though it was not without fair reason.
Either way, I appreciate the honest feedback.
And to add...
Perhaps the point isn’t whether I am aware of the whole situation regarding how the witness voting works...
But rather, are the countless people newer than you and I, whom this “witness” has been lying to and spamming...?
If this guy is shoving bullshit down the throats of dozens of community members per day... do you really expect that all of them understand how the whole witness thing works, and are able to discern that they’re being played by a fucking spam bot...?
Maybe as more and more people come onto this site, standards of conduct NEED to be set, such that it is crystal-clear what is and isn’t* appropriate conduct.
And guaranteed, the vast majority of newbies don’t know the full details of what’s up with the witness situation.
So, would it really be better to keep quiet when such abuses take place like this, letting unacceptable behavior slide by unacknowledged...? Or bringing some attention to it, if for no other reason that to send out a ripple effect, educating those not in-the-know that these are examples of conduct that are not acceptable...?
If the answer is that we just shouldn’t give a shit and better let spamming bullshitters carry on about their business while claiming to have the community’s best interest in mind, then it’s only a matter of time before I pack my bags and get the fuck outta here before this wild-wild-west of an unprofessional sandbox burns to the ground due to a lack of actual integrity-based leadership...
In a decentralized community you can take up this responsibility yourself and flag the comments, showing that user you disprove of their conduct.
Of course.
Though sometimes, it may be more suitable to speak up.
i.e. I could have just gone on a mad flagging rampage, flagging this “witness’” spam comments; however, given that my voting power was low at the time and his rep score was fairly high, it probably wouldn’t have made too much of a dent, he wouldn’t have noticed, and even if he had, I wouldn’t have expected him to get why, to the same degree as though I expressed it directly and clearly. And, it wasn’t entirely to condemn him that was my intention, but perhaps moreso raise awareness to others in the community who are not yet aware that such behavior is not appropriate here, so they can spot it for themselves when encountering in the future, rather than being duped into thinking they just got a genuine compliment.
OR, tombstone could have flagged my post, (and for all I know, maybe he did), but I wouldn’t have noticed - nor would I have understood why. His straightforward sharing of his viewpoint was much more effective - and appreciated, as it brings the counter-perspective out into the open, which is also of benefit to other members who may end up reading, providing them a broader spectrum of opinions on the matter.
This is spamming under every circumstance, no other way to look at it, and such activity stands really bad for the platform, witnesses are not to be exempted from what the community deems as inappropriate and unfit for the growth of the platform, after all we are all stakeholders, such conduct should be checked.
What is being done in the wallets memo are enough, this is way too vile coming from a witness
🙌
anybody can start a witness...even stupid people
I can't stand the absolutely non-technical "witnesses," who are just a face and have some hidden, unknown person behind the scenes manning the technicalities. I have no respect for that whatsoever.
Clearly.
Stupidity aside, it’s rather discouraging that there are zero checks in place to ensure that witnesses can’t be held accountable to such basic standards of conduct as not continually spamming users.
The reward system for flagging content on Steemit needs to be changed so that flagging pointless content has more of a reward which incentives the general community to do the right thing and flag this kind of useless stuff on a more constant basis. Spam posts are worse then spam comments but either way both are not ideal for the user experience and the perception of the platform as a whole and this is one of the first social media platforms that has ever existed that COULD solve the problem simply by altering the reward system on the flagging side of things but for some reason has yet to do so... maybe some day...
Yes, I agree it's bad behavior. I've never heard of that particular witness, but any douche is entitled to run one; it's not Steemit's job to be a gatekeeper per se. Voting is an important responsibility. It's the voters who need to pay attention to which witnesses are trustworthy and which ones are operating questionable operations. There is a reason I have plenty of blank spots and am not using all of my witness votes. I'd rather feel good about a smaller number that I support.
Unfortunately, there is a witness had this bad behavior and you voted him as witness. For details please read The Dark Hand of Steemit
If they're campaigning, they need to be campaigning to peoples' WALLETS in the form of something better than 0.001 SBD, don't clutter someone's post with garbage.
If someone drops 1+ SBD/Steem for example into my wallet, I'll give their message a little thought, they have my attention. Otherwise it's simply spam and speaks for itself, drop 'er in the garbage pile and give it a flag.
I did get such spam into my wallet, went to the post where the witness was promoting himself and complained on the spamming. Based on the feedback I got, most people considered it legitimate and happy to get 0.001 into their wallets.
*“most people considered it legitimate and happy to get 0.001 into their wallets....???”
At least most of the people that read my comment and bothered replying to it. Here it is:
https://steemit.com/witness-category/@emrebeyler/announcing-myself-as-a-new-witness-emrebeyler#@tobixen/re-emrebeyler-announcing-myself-as-a-new-witness-emrebeyler-20180329t221128561z
Rather interesting, how differently viewpoints can oppose each other, yet both actually have some sense/merit...
So if you get spammed 1000 times, you get either a collective 1 SBD or Steem!!! Fantastic deal!!!
/s
Steemcleaners is supposed to be on that.
@spaminator, too.
I'd suggest @steemflagrewards for anybody with more sp and rep than that account, they will pay you for your flags.
I did report to Steemcleaners.
Hmmm, earning from my SP to flag spam... I kinda like the sound of that. May have to check into these guys... :-)
Seems to me to be something stinc, et al, would be interested in delegating to, but, nope.
As others have already said, everyone can become a witness, just as everyone can run for office. The question is who is elected. And this behavior just lost this particular witness a few votes.
Just one of those things that needs to be fixed for real.
Though I feel steemit HQ interfering in the affairs of the system may undermine thay decentralized and neutral position they are trying to have.
I have sent this post to the SMT telegram page, its basically the inly place we have to interact with the heads of steemit, whales, orcas and the rest that I know of.
the fact that they are still using telegram and not discord should tell you a lot about how in touch with the community the DEVS are...
There is a dev community on discord tho, where you can get get devs for hire i think
I still have faith that this platform will grow even if its not the top steem platform but these spam bots are annoying. There's still loyal people in the platform but steemit won't grow much if it keeps on using such negative promotion. I hope this changes soon and I do hope people like ned actually start listening to their content creators.
To be fair the Idiot is just an exception, not the rule. I do wish they were held more accountable though. Becoming a witness does not hold much meaning anymore I see
Damn. That guy upvoted one of my posts the other day and I actually thought that I'd done well. Kicks can.
Nope. You got bullshitted.
How’s it feel?
And that is the type of “leadership” here on Steemit...?? 😡
Why do we reduce it only to witness? A witness does not automatically mean something better or someone really doing good for the community. Everyone can become a witness - that does not mean a lot.
Look at other projects that spam all day - why do we not criticise the projects all get mad about like @steem-ua who spam or @partiko with the automatic comments? Nearly all bots do spam if we stay by the definition what spam is all of the new approaches - considered as good for the community - are also Spam.
I personally ignore the spam as long it is not upvoted to the top of the comment sections.
Actually, if you refer to our SmartComments module: those comments (will be more advanced as we progress) are intended to provide feedback / coaching on how to improve.
Thanks @scipio - I wanted to reach out to you anyway via DM to ask questions. To admit your comments are smart and indeed individual ones not the same and add some value.
Please do DM me!
And I'm trying to substitute the some with a lot of ;-)
lol - sounds good - Discord name scipio?
I can understand where you're coming from, @rok-sivante. But said witness is very low in the ranking, meaning he has no real influence. You wouldn't see someone doing similar in the TOP 40 let alone TOP 20 - with an exception here and there like JB.
Keep in mind that nobody is something special for being a Witness. It's just a term for running a program on a server. Doesn't make him automatically a better human being.
And if somebody is willing to promote himself by spamming comments, then he is shooting himself in the foot. That's my opinion on that matter - as a Witness (block-producer) myself.
I cannot agree. I revealed the fact that a high rep user spammed Steemit, and got retaliated by him and his bots. Now the spammer is a top witness. For details please read:
The Dark Hand of Steemit
We’ve been getting the same spammy responses from the same.. Witness. Hey cool post @rok-sivante, you nailed it! Thanks for Resteeming this one @jlsplatts.
Well I'd say you did right by posting the screenshot, so us others know who not to vote.
And that's it right there. While I do agree that hopefully some folks with heavier influence also take up arms against that kind of behavior, hopefully we have that power in numbers too. Not so much in one lump sum, but it can accumulate if spread.
This is really bad... But what can we do to stop this in the future.
Decentralization presupposes that everyone can conduct him/herself which is untrue. The Steem platform should create a decentralized court where violators of the good conduct are dealt with accordingly
i highly doubt the steemit platform will have any real corporate entities coming onto the platform. Why would they when they can create their own social media site with their rules and as soon as they give it to their marketing department its a hit with all the social media users. I mean all it takes is 100k for kim kardashian to post something that could send thousands if not millions of people to their platform.
This is myspace and as such is doomed to be relegated to obscurity
I often have drawn the comparison that this may be the MySpace of decentralized social platforms, possibly on its way to the same fate.
Being heavily invested, I’d hope that weren’t the case. Though every time shit like this comes to the surface, I get questioning again when the time to pull out and fuck off will be...
I honestly don't know what's going on with this platform now. If this is the quality of witnesses, imagine the general state of things This week I've made it a habit of going through the New Feed every morning just to humour myself. The stuff I find is just appalling.
I don't think this is something that should be handled through authoritarian leadership, and I don't think this should be handled much differently from other kinds of spam/spammers, nor from other cases where witnesses are misbehaving in one way or another.
I wonder though, if with the use of bots some sort of leadership or monitoring is needed, new people keep coming to steemit and witness' keep conducting themselves this way, all be it seemingly the minority, for now, years down the line we possibly could have some serious issues with everything just being overrun in that way. It's almost like the annoying you tube ad's, which now are on everything, sometimes you can't skip past them, some of them are ridiculously long, and now i even see back to back adverts. It wasn't enough of a big deal before to give it much attention, now it really does grind on me and i am pulling away from it massively. It's not the same i know, but look how that's grown over the years into something highly annoying.
I don't really know enough about all of this to say anything concrete, however my self being less than a month old on Steemit can see it's going on and can see people speaking up about it, not just here, especially minnows.
It may go against the original idea for steemit, but it's not just people on here, there are bots being utilised, and does that need some rules around it? Nothing is stagnant, and if they hold their feet firm in the ground sticking with the original ideas when there are so many rumblings going on with the users about this issue, if they don't want to be fluid and move or grow with the users, then it could become a free for all for the 'bot's and above example, and ultimately people could start walking away, the platform will kill it self.
I speak this way only as a potential, i am not saying this is what i think is going to happen.
At least you can pay $15 a month to get rid of the ads on YouTube...
(Though were we able to pay to block the spam here, I’d most likely definitely be on my way out.)
This is getting weird day by day....everyone has started to spam around
Posted using Partiko Android
Sincerely, this is a headache to me. A witness should be able to conduct him/herself without interference or guidance from the Steemit HQ. We should not be too quick to lay claims on those souls for no reason. What could they have done to this reckless act?
A witness should be able to SPAM people with bullshit compliments attempting to distract users from recognize they’re being spammed for the witness’ selfish interests...??
Interesting theory, you have there.
I never said a witness should SPAM rok, all I postulated was that a witness should be able to conduct him/herself without being told Left from Right...
Steemit HQ cannot spoon-feed them neither can they take actions base on their discretion, it will undermined the principle of the decentralized system known with blockchain. But I guess the reason why you are reproaching both the witness act and tag along with Steemit HQ is that, the SHQ is vicariously liable for the witness's act under the law.
And from what have said I also condemned that act, it is not fit for the blockchain. I think we the users would or should be the checkmate for such attrocities. Thank you for reporting this case to steemcleaners. It is really a good step.
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STOPTo support your work, I also upvoted your post!
Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:
As I know SPAM bot is always a privilege of the people who have connections. If you don't know what I am talking, please follow one of my old post: The Dark Hand of Steemit
I revealed the fact that a high rep user spammed Steemit, and got retaliated by him and his bots. Now the spammer is a witness.