I didn't really follow the whole explanation but to me the main issue here is not whatever dmania and/or zombee are doing but the Steemit delegation to a few favored third party devs.
Not only does it put the Steem dev team (aka Steemit) team in a position of picking favorites and represent an illegitimate use of the ninja-mine (which was supposed to be for funding purposes and not be used for stake voting except in cases of emergency) but when things inevitably goes wrong (this isn't the first time and it won't be the last) it blows back on them, and therefore onto Steem.
If Steemit weren't involved and dmania were doing these things with its own money, it might be a case of abuse (not even actively doubting it, just using uncertain terms here because I didn't analyze the 'proof' carefully), but it would just be one other user, of many, who should be perhaps be downvoted (whether that actually happens enough and what should be done about it is a discussion for another day).
The devs should dev, stay neutral, and stay above the fray. Stop raiding the cookie jar of free stake. I know it is tempting to use it but exercise some self-control please.
I recall this argument being made many times in the past when STINC did similar things with their stake. Since HF18, they have added several millions of SP into the daily voting pool from their ninja-mined stake via delegation and other transfers to delegating accounts. Every instance of this translates into more dilution of influence for actual investors.
But it isn’t enough to dilute all other investor influence - they also pick and choose “winners and losers.” And it seems that more often than not, they make terrible decisions regarding where the SP is delegated. How many times have we seen things mentioned in this OP play out...starting with Steem Guild in the fall of 2016?
Despite the frequency and/or severity of the abuses, these mistakes continue.
This delegation nonsense really needs to stop - especially from STINC...and especially because of how it was acquired and how they are perceived as the “leadership” of what’s billed as a decentralized blockchain.
What are your thoughts on delegation overall and the idea of eliminating it altogether?
I would vehemently oppose eliminating delegation.
OK. Why?
I think it helps add value to the platform. I think delegation helped create some things like dtube dlive etc. Plus it can be used as a revenue stream for investors which for some reason seem to be in short supply. In addition I feel it has been beneficial to me. I am very bullish and very dedicated to this platform so hopefully I can help move us forward in part thanks to delegation.
Would not bother me to eliminate it, but that's kind of focusing on the mechanism.
The original guild stuff, which as you say was the same sort of mess, was done with bots. That was devs using their own accounts (though still filled entirely with ninja-mine stake). But when delegation came along that became a sort of loophole/excuse to weasel out of 'non-voting', not only on individual dev team accounts, but on the whole steemit account as well. Obviously this made matters worse, but the real problem to my point of view is the weaseling and the bad judgment. I don't think you can fix that with a protocol change, unfortunately.
Well said.
The context of this specific stake (and its blurry justification) is a key factor in why it shouldn't be used for purposes like this. I'm sure there are some similarities that could be drawn between this usage of the stake and the dev-originating witness voting of the past, both which go against the devs ability to stay a neutral party.
Wow super upvote 153.97 congratulations
Great point you bring up there...
The truth is that I totally get that we as a community, as the people who participate of this blockchain should not feel powerless, should not feel like we can't create initiatives, apps or what have you to boost and protect our investment on this platform. I know that to some of Steem Inc Staffers, us complaining seems annoying and completely counter productive... I get all that...
But my point, the reason why this is upsetting becomes, if we(the users) are in charge of the future of this blockchain then why don't we know.. and I mean clearly know the rules of the game we are participating in?
It's great that you bring up one of these "game rules" to light....
First I hear of this, but I clearly remember this delegations being given to users with no projects/apps running on this platform. So even this original game rule needed a revision from the start.
Again, I'm not trying to start a fight... I just would like to understand what the game plan is, if its a business, because it is... then the finances, the resources, should not be used like a the drawer of a mom and pop bakery....
I can't wait for the same issues to happen on eos , people think the pre Ninja mining really matters that much. There will always be whales. Mute function works wonders.
I think the difference with EOS it that the sale is longer(it took months) and there are more people interested in cryptos now, which is going to make the coins more distributed... Still, i can see where you are going with that, and even though i'm very bullish on EOS i don't think it's going to be the "king"! We are evolving very rapidly, something new and better is going to appear, something revolutionary! Something that even Satoshi Nakamoto would say: "DAMN! I'm a pleb compared to the guy that developed this!"
Yes there will always be whales but with EOS I have committed what I could and had a year to do so. That wasn't the case with STEEM. I like STEEM and have invested a lot of time and Money into it but in the end the distribution was messed up and that is why it isn't in the top 10 on CoinMarketCap at this point. With EOS building off of the capabilities of BitShares and STEEM and having the ability to run things like that on top of it there will be many real world use cases for it that will drive demand.
The demand that is driven here is to become more powerful against people who spent $500 and ended up with a million worth of STEEM. So it makes it tough for anyone else to catch up and gain influence. It is like you are racing against Usain Bolt and guess what...... we aren't giving you starting blocks and we are going to have you go barefooted as well. Good luck!
well i can't say, everything and anything is possible but it's hardly difficult to really state one's opinion because there are more powerful people here,
however we all know the right thing and we should adhere to it