If I see a list like this on a post then I'm less likely to vote on it. If you bought lots of votes then you don't need me to vote on it. I'll use it where it will benefit others who do less well and leave it to readers to decide if the post deserves a reward. I see a lot of cars where the majority of comments are from the bots. That makes it even more obvious. It's not like if make much from curation if I cared about that.
Steem on and support good content.
100% agree. I don't vote after bots because I have a feeling that an author who can buy a $10-20 upvote does not need my few cents. There are a lot of really good posts from newbies who have no money to pay for vote and who want to be noticed by real people. Why not support them?
Besides, did you know that voting after a strong bid-bot practically leaves you curation rewards? In this case the main part of curators' pie goes to bid-bot, and here is another reason to avoid voting after bots.
I'm glad you posted about this topic. I'm (obviously) completely new here, and have been learning fast about how all this works. My latest reading and discussion has been regarding the use of bots. My first inclination has been not to feel in favor of them, except, maybe, in certain circumstances.
I agree with a lot of what you've said. I want to have an authentic experience here, and when I post, if I post, I'd like to have a clear idea of how my content is honestly received. There can be so many impediments to clear communication, and especially, I think, if you do something to alter things, intentionally. I really would value more-so seeing the unadulterated pattern of how a response to content plays out. And then maybe from that I could learn to improve, or maybe tailor my content to what people actually care too see or hear. Just seems a more authentic way of connect, and that in itself could be a thing we might have to fight to protect.
Happy to help. I just think people are exploiting this facility to plunder Steemit. We have a lot of freedom here, but we should consider the impression we give
Right. You've brought up good points.
Looking money hungry, solely money motivated, looks ugly on anyone no matter where they are. It's disingenuous and off-putting. And it stands out very clearly on here. I think most can judge that well enough, and you would be right not to encourage it/endorse it in most cases.
I think it will, regardless of what ideal way we'd like it to or not, all work itself out in time...with the help of those paying close attention to form this environment into something worthwhile. I hope so, anyway. I'll try the best I can to do my tiny little part in helping that along.
(And just a note on that begging mentality, when I see it, I do sometimes see the poverty state motivation for some, and I do empathize, so maybe...maybe that's where I personally let stand my careful exception to the rule - for some. There is a difference between pure greed motivation and a true instance of need. But bottom line, we should, I think, create a culture that values honest effort to create truly valuable content above all. And you're right, it is a problem that will grow if not discouraged, and should be addressed, generally - as you've done here.)
I also appreciate your frankness on these type of posts. There's as much a need for that here as there is the refreshing kindness and agreeableness. Debate is important; it helps bring along change (pun intended), and can stop things from going stagnant.
Hey @steevc! @intspekt pointed me to this post as we were talking about stuff like this. I think voting bots are kind of ridiculous, but how else can we gain exposure on hot and trending lists?
I don't like spending SBD on voting bots, but on a quality post I want people to see I like to spend 5-10 SBD to see if new people like my content. Otherwise it's just washed away mby thousands of posts in the New tab.
I'd much rather be powering up. The only other way to get exposure is networking via comments and discord, and you have to rely on comments generating enough interest or your post catching someones eye on discord programs like OCD, etc.
Are you against voting bots entirely or just when people spam them like above? My favorite is smartsteem.com because of the whitelisting feature where you can sell your votes to quality content creators, but how can we do away with voting bots otherwise? And how can people not using them beat out people who do? Quality content isn't enough with the way steemit is set up
Great point of discussion
We had the promoted tab that allowed us to burn sbd for exposure, but buying votes is more profitable now. I'm not against prime getting exposure, but some are doing it purely for profit and spending serious amounts. I think that harms steemit. We can reach choose how to act, but our actions may be judged
Ahh thanks for the reply, I read through a few other comments as well.
Right now the promoted tab is worthless pretty much. Voting bots are giving better returns. Actually, using voting bots usually pays back more than you send, which must be why people abuse them like above..... Maybe this will be resolved when SBD is worth 1USD.
I think the promotion tab needs to be revamped or incentivized if it is ever going to compete. Burning SBD at this point seems like a bad idea, wouldn't that make them worth more?
I wrote about the promoted tab recently. It's pretty much useless. People are making serious money by buying votes. I choose not to. The trending/hot/promoted tabs are some of the ways posts can be presented. I'd like better ways to find what interests me.
Have you checked out appbase?
I haven't had a chance yet, but looks like some customization is inbound
Not yet, but I'll try to find time
What are your thoughts on using tools like Steemfollower? I'm not sure if it could be classified as an upvote exchange, since you're only opvoting good content.
The main benefit is that good content gets noticed more quickly since it has far fewer members, thus posts, than on Steemit.
In any case, I've also concluded my experiments with bots, I think I've made a net loss in the end. The money is better spent towards powering up.
I've not used that, so can't comment. Basically it's better if humans do the voting and not for themselves. I'm okay with minnows buying a vote for attention, but not those buying huge votes for pure profit
It's why I have so many very small value upvotes on my posts. It's not for automatic voting, you're still manually curating albeit with a different interface.
For me, it's sometimes tempting to just buy one vote to get things started, but there's still remorse when you finally realize that it just gives you a warped view of the actual value of your posts.
I tried explaining this to my friend who is a firm believer in using bots.. that a lot of people won't vote for you because using bots makes it look like ALL you care about is money
Exactly. Some people are just taking
Ditto, Do not need an upvote for this comment.
buying Upvoting in my opinion, is nothing more then the equivalent of bribery in FIAT.
Many people vote for money only, and this is a mistake. We must understand what the individual puts us, and make clear comments, to help each other gain knowledge @steevc
I’ve not seen too many posts like this yet. I think it’s great that you’re raising awareness of things like this as Steemit can come across as being very confusing. It helps newbies or users like myself more aware of what goes on.
Valid point - I tried a lot of the voting bots and I have to be honest I use one still sometimes which is minnowbooster - I might be bad because of doing this but I totally understand if people do not vote posts pushed by tons of bots. The use of such bots in general is anyway a very controversy topic - i personally think the last HF was crap and it should go back to non linear rewards - we would then not have any discussion on these services at all.
I think when you get to your level you don't really need them, but it's a personal choice. I think there could be some compromise with the reward algorithm. Current system encourages voting circles. We need responsible whales, but some of them care more about profit than quality.
You are probably right - what strikes me personally is people complaining about bots always saying if you write quality content you will be recognised - bots are bad - but most of these people saying this are part of major circle jerks, hardly do anything for the community and still power down (these are much worse anyone using a bot by paying for it - i thing they do more for community and steem value is the circle jerkers) - this is a reason to use bots, however it will not change a thing or help as the big circle jerks will dominate no matter what also will be used.
I see people paying 50 sbd for votes. That's not about getting attention. They make a lot from that, as does the vote seller. I can't control what people do, but I can get them thinking about it
I know people paying 50 SBD for a vote to get into trending section, there is no ROI from these bots - seems most of them want attention as they do not get profits.
Paying SBD for a vote is doing more for the currency and is better as people get circle jerk voting in my opinion which then power down.
It's a business
Agree on this sir , i mean maybe they can use bots in a controllable way but not like that too much , and my side is that , seeing what you just earned without bot is like seeing what really is the earning of your hardwork , , i tried that, to be honest, when i was new and so overwhelmed, that was last month, then ididn't like the outcome , so from then i decided not to use it and the other thing is that when i did use of that before it's like i am fooling myself as if i earned lots of votes but the truth is it's because of bot. thanks for sharing this very timely and meaningful post 👍👏
I was always against buying votes but then with such a huge number of posts and users it gets difficult to get attention of whales.
I still don't favor bots much but doing it judiciously sounds fair enough.
I hope Steemit will eventually stop the bots. I understand they need to tweak things but bots have a potential to prevent the social interactions that Steemit will need to grow.
There are no rules, so it's up to the community to decide what is acceptable. In not sure they can be shut down without fundamental changes
+appreciator - the weak posts fire escape!
I guess that is how the community can discourage vote-bidding one way. You know what.. thanks for the suggestion, it's really that simple afterall. If a person has the money to buy votes, he/she dont need my upvotes.
Well lets look at it from the other end cause I calculated using bots truth is what you get is even more steem power than the total number of sbds you have spent in using them. Plus most people are getting frustrated cause it seems nobody is even reaching out on their good contents no matter how much they write for someone like me who is a PHLEG and a SANGUINE, we sometimes need motivation to work... Yesterday i posted about 4 contents singing my life out no encouragement am sure they have a reason for using bot its subjective
i agree with you, ive tried once one bot, but ive get the feeling its not cool, its a sad and greedy thing. this is not the purpose of steemit clearly
Taking note of this. I still use bots to upvote posts that I think are more important than others.
I know people do it to get visibility, but some seem to do it just for profit. They don't really care if anyone reads it
Thats true tho if they using it for good contents I have no issues but if its for issues that arent worth it then aint in support
Thanks for the information,I don't what to do now,I'll try to make a good content,but Vote for me just less,I also don't like to use bot,I want to be myself with my power and skill.
Nice post,thanks @steevc
I can appreciate some people need the money, but some are just being greedy and I think that's bad for Steemit. You have to build a following off good people. Commenting helps with that
Thank you @steevc,it means,steemit not just to get reward,but it is for creative for good people
Wow, this is great, that means newbie like me deserve a chance from you🙈
Some bots are good. Destroy the bad ones. Some are scammers even, they receive payment and fail to give upvote
I don't know how I feel about buying upvotes from whales. Sure you get exposition and the whale gets to earn even more, but it feels a bit immoral to me. I get the reciprocity of it, but shouldn't Whales be distributing upvotes fairly based on good content, rather than renting them? Do they really need those few extra dollars or are they trying to promote themselves even further? Just some questions this practice leaves me with.
I tried using this but definitely not worth it.
I see people paying 50sbd for a vote and having a profit. The whales do well from it
Is there a safe limit....I see some people using bots 2-3 days before post payout....What you say about that @steevc
I judge each case by my own criteria. It's a personal choice
Yeah...well said...
I think if someone have written a great post and he/she prompts it with some SBD that's ok...No issue unless someone abuses the reward pool ....
In the end its all about personal choices..
The bots are not even paying well, what is their essence... Post and let God reward you...
I didn't even know that votes can be bought! A bit confused.
There are people selling them. It's all business
Oh okay! thank you for making me clear.
super incredible writing .. from the first I see your social feelings more than other steemit users .. this reason I express not because I want to vote .. but my moral to give your writing a very big value .. even you are entitled or deserve being the leader ..
@steevc
Not sure what you are saying, but thanks anyway
hahahhaa ... why you are not sure, it is hard to convince people .. but I will try as I express, the belief is relative .. thanks for the trust of votes and comments father
@steevc
Father? You don't have to say it's 'super incredible'. I want honesty, not flattery.
Lol, I needed a laugh today.
yes ... Father ... maybe you can see my dishonesty in terms of my heart .. .. my heart honest .. I graduated from the faculty of social sciences .. so I easily familiar with people and share the sense sisial.itulah honesty sya
the father's call for us is actually Master ... not father
destroy ALL bots..
Just the bad ones. I'd worry about some of the humans too
you are right :)
I'm doing my best to have good content! believe that
@steevc.......its really thought-able topic ........i agree with you........i think ,,its help us to take right decision ...........thanks for your valuable post......
this is how the excessive use of bots makes your readers and the people who vote for you question the material you publish, the system is a free will only that people use it to enrich themselves, sad but true...your posts are very good
and soulless