LOL @drbob1. I kinda agree with you.
Sorry @jerrybanfield and @teamsteem, but basically what you are saying here that if we learn how to abuse the system and cheat, then it may be okay, depending on how we look at it.
Of course, I am glad that @jerrybanfield brought the subject to light, but it is incredible that many others knew about it and nothing was done to make the system better for new users.
We, the new users, suffer so much because no big guys take the time to look at us, and in the rare occasion someone with decent SP votes for us, they use 1% of their votes. While here @mindhunter having possibly 3 friends beside himself voting his 2-words comments with full power.
If we want to become successful, All we hear is that we should write amazing posts. We shouldn't beg for money. We should work hard. We should be patient. We should and we should....
Yet, we never know what a good post is, since no one tells us whether our posts are good or they are just down right crappy. And here I see someone posting a picture of himself (He is not a hot or sexy girl even) or his cat and getting +20,000 a month. Not sure what I should say or how to describe my feelings. @jerrybanfield I guess you fit the sexy criteria in your boxers, that's why you got over $300 for that post?
Sorry, I don't mean to be sarcastic, or maybe I do a bit. But, really!?
I am afraid to try posting my picture in a bikini or something only to find that I made $0.01, just because I don't have rich followers. That will be devastating. I better not try it (sigh)
How can I convince such rich people to become my loyal friends like that? Anyone is interested in supporting me to grow so I can vote their comments last min and we all make big bucks? or maybe I should just do like @tamim. Just spend thousands to grow my SP and eventually get my money back with kisses on top?
I am kinda feeling sad and discouraged now. I always believed that hard work pays, but it's just so sad to see that cheating is being rewarded and on top of it, left alone to thrive.
Am I being too emotional here? Sorry, it just has been shocking news for me to read.
Thanks @jerrybanfield for sharing.
Rewards = Quality * Reach.
You are thinking it is this:
Rewards = Quality.
This is why Jerry can make money off of the post you refer to. It's a lot braver post. If I post that post, it only hits 1250 people. Jerry hits 10x that. He's performing for 10x the audience, math would suggest he get at least 10x the rewards.
The reason we all tell you to work harder, make good posts, etc is because that is the only way to succeed. Some abuse does not negate this.
Apologies for the post promotion, but I think this post I just wrote is aimed directly at you. I hope it helps:
Steemit, like Life, is a popularity contest
PS - Chances are good I would vote you more than .01 on your bikini post. You know, because of the implication.
Hahaha. I love your (PS). Thank you for supporting myself esteem ;)
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Both Quality and Reach are very important. Quality bring reach again and again, while reach support quality more :)
Thanks for the suggestion. Sometimes promoting is important, because it is hard to figure out where to find the quality read.
Many Thanks again and happy to meet you and everyone else here :D
Don't forget to count the extra followers you get from each post as a "form of reward". Everyone you get could be that one who resteems you to the right people for a big upvote.
Wait. What? You get followers as a form of reward? Do tell...
I just mean that every follower you get is going to increase the expected value of all your future posts. So even if your payout isn't that great, if you got more followers, you "earned" future rewards.
Okay. My followers grew a little even though I hadn’t posted anything new in a couple days, so your comment made me wonder...
Thanks for the reply!
Will keep that in mind.
Thanks again :D
Thank you for breaking up my reply feed with something that doesn't annoy me.
I read a post asking the users to justify "Why SteemIt isn't a Waste of Time"
The money/Steem people are making on Steem is money that is coming from the investors. You are right about that. To make Steem people have to convince other people they should "pay" you for the work you've done.
People abusing the system are destroying the value of the currency they are trying to get their hands on. There need to be at least 51% people looking to spread valuable content for Steem to be worth something.
I agree 100% people who are just "printing money" are destroying its value... and thus steem it still only at $1 and change...
I'm unclear on why you quoted my post here. Is that is response to me?
The vision was, is people shouldn't be able to be bad actors because there are others of the same size that have flags to fix the problems. The system has all of the tools built into it to fix the problems. If you are concerned about the problem... Why not just deal with it.
I quoted your post cause it's a nice thought that seemed fitting as it describe Steem pretty well. People shouldn't feel entitled to anything more than "Stake based voting" reward system, all the rest is someone's opinion pretty much.
Thank you for the clarification.
The money that was mined before Steemit even existed, as most Steem was, isn't from investors, but from those that were 'insiders' and who were able to control the code that permitted mining.
There are investors in Steem, like @snowflake, for example, who did not mine their large stakes in Steem.
Most of the Steem in existence today, isn't doled out as upvotes, as upvotes don't draw from your personal holdings, but rather the rewards pool, was mined before Steemit even existed. The value of your upvote is BASED on your holdings, but does not draw on them.
Steem is not produced by upvotes. Votes merely disburse the Steem that is created otherwise, through a different mechanism, and supplied to the rewards pool.
For this reason, when @mindhunter buys votes from @snowflake, he draws down the rewards pool from which we all are paid rewards, in proportion to the value of the upvotes we receive.
In other words, those scams mean more for the scammers, and less for the rest of the authors. They get more Steem, and we get less, because they draw down the pool and leave less in it for us to split.
I know all of this. You also misunderstood some stuff. If no investors ever bought any Steem then the price of Steem would be 0$. The price of Steem comes from investors.
I could re-start a Bitcoin blockchain from 0, if nobody mine any, no matter if I hold thousands of them, they will be worth 0$.
I know about the reward pool and how it work. I was here in May of 2016 and I've been spending 40 hours a week on Steem ever since...
No investors will buy any Steem unless Steemit will grow, so the platform needs to be able to resist scams.
Satoshi did exactly that, and whoever he/they is, he's got a lot of BTC now. There are no 'dividends' from hodling BTC, and no use case beyond it's original novelty, unlike Steem, which is driven by Steemit.
I know you are one of the old guard. I know you are dedicated to making Steemit become a platform capable of crushing Fakebook. I don't know why you consider my comment to be aimed at ONLY you, as my response to you was intended to extend the information to the wider audience that will read them here.
I just think that making sure that people have the information I included will help them to understand better how Steemit works. Most people, I think, still don't know that the votes they receive don't come out of the upvoters personal holdings, but out of the rewards pool, and that's an important distinction - particularly as vote sellers aren't selling their money, but the common resource we all depend on for rewards.
Good points.
I don't consider myself from the old guard but more like an early adopter.
Excellent post, thank you for this explanation.
Best easy explanation for how the reward pool works yet and very clearly defines how high powered self-voting decreases others' rewards (even if it is only a few cents from each user, the impact across the board is significant). And I think the investor issue is what should be pushing for a solution here, people don't invest in companies where they know abusing the company's infrastructure is tolerated, unless they plan on abusing it as well.
I reckon that those investors worth their salt understand the difference between cashflow now, and potential capital gains, particularly as regards a platform that seems to be so rife with such 'features'.
Cash, as they say, is King.
Your comments are right on the mark. I have many times posted on this matter, and when my posts and comments reached witnesses and devs, and they deigned to respond, the responses were simply "we don't agree.", rather than substantive expositions of their disagreement, or ended up being some prompting that has resulted in Steemit being forked, i.e. Calibrae.
@mindhunter was outed as buying @snowflake's votes, and @snowflake as controlling the other accounts also doing the upvoting.
You are not being too emotional, but rather being discouraged at this kind of manipulation is exactly what the white paper states is the reason for downvotes and flags to exist at all.
It is sad that mere lucre has turned out to be a cryptic Steemit-killer, yet, unless there is a significant revolution in how our votes are weighted, it is inevitable IMHO that a Sybil attack will, sooner or later, be undertaken to control the witnesses, and those whose (mostly mined) stakes will be purchased to do this will become millionaires - in some other currency than Steem, which will insulate them entirely from the consequences of the platform being taken over.
Steemit is marketed as 'decentralized', but, since wealth is perhaps the most centralizable thing of all, and Steemit is simply able to be bought, with enough wealth directed at the largest stakes, Steemit is not decentralized at all. Steemit is no more decentralized than any stock corporation controlled by investors.
Only equal votes, or votes weighted by reputation - the judgement of the community as to the value of the account holder - might be able to actually be decentralized. Money is the most centralizing of power mechanisms, as we see in the world around us today.
Dear @valued-customer, Thank you for approving my comment and thank you for your comment on it.
These information are amazing revelations for me. My age experience in terms of cryptocurrency and steemit is not more than 3 months. Yet I am finding so many mind blowing info everyday I get deeper in the issue.
I totally agree with you. We all say this platform or that cryptocurrency are decentralized and its our way to freedom of speech and fair chances, but in actuality, those who monopolize the platforms and cryptocurrencies by voting/mining or other means are actually centralizing it from within. Very subtle but dangerous. Because in the outside it still looks the gate to dream-land but in the inside, it is actually the gate to grim-land.
Lets hope steemit will not end up like that and will retain the benign foundations and good intentions that was built upon.
Many thanks again for sharing and for your support :)
Thanks for summing up, far more eloquently, my thoughts to. I have only been on here for 5/6 days, posting, so can hardly be qualified to comment. - But I will anyway ! lol
'We' you ( and me, and many others I would think), see this as a as 'cheating' strategy -other see as fair playing of the system.
The moral issue of 'cheating' and 'fair play', is something that can be worked out, in a free market place - which this is.
I'm sure there is a way to. - I just cant figure it yet!... but I have set my grey matter onto the conundrum.
What is obvious, is that, just like in society today - those at the top with ' the power', will not relinquish it.
Those are the same people without the same moral compass as ourselves - the ones who think it's fair play.
So, somehow it behooves the 'moral compass crew' to work within the system here, to promote other equally 'moral contributors'. (not content of posting), but the INTENT of the posting.
For example, I just wrote a game of thrones episode 'spoiler' - I thought it was pretty funny actually, but no one on steemit seemed to think so . Oh well.
While not deserving of up votes, if it really is that bad ( which isn't -goddamn it, it ). But lets suppose it really is that bad (which it isn't - did I mention that?).
But, if it is, by popular vote, so be it. - It means it's shit - but the INTENT of posting, was to make people laugh (and get some money for my efforts).
The power houses are not going to change the way things are - it suits them handsomely - but if there are enough 'of us' people headed in a different moral direction, with the will to pursue different ends, (and numbers to also)....well that's free markets in action , right?
The sickness of late 20th century/21st century thinking, is that gaming a system belies intelligence thought- which it does, of sorts - But it embodies all the short sighted awareness, and social responsibility of your average T-rex, who is in particularly bad mood.
If I am missing something blindingly obvious, please let me know - Like I say I'm still getting to grips with the whole thing.
(and check out my game of thrones post! if it's something you watch it - it is tongue in cheek, silly funny - honest) :)
"I thought it was pretty funny actually, but no one on steemit seemed to think so . Oh well."
It's probably just because you don't have the followers. Don't take it so hard. You may appreciate this post I wrote (apologies for self-promotion, but it's relevant):
Steemit, like Life, is a popularity contest
Your followers are your visibility. Posting quality content with few followers is like buying a billboard on a cornfield highway in Kansas with a population density of 8 people per square mile.
I can't check out your post, unfortunately, as I would spoiler myself out of this season.
Any system that can be gamed will be gamed ,and when good voluntarily restricts itself, evil games much better. In compound interest terms, like Steem, that means "evil" makes a ton more rewards.
We may be morally best-served by removing all community norms and rules, but I fear what that might turn Steemit into (Bitconnect?)
It's OK, I didn't take it hard - in slightest- (it was for dramatic effect)
Take a look - it's not remotely a spoiler - I promise. - that was just a headline grabber !
While I agree with all your points.
It's a cross I seem to have to bear, in life - to always try to find the exception to the rule. - Or failing that, change the rules...
Both a talent and a curse, throughout my working life.
(with the exception- rules of war gaming - that would be silly - it's 'only' a game)
cheers
Hahaha.
I like the advertising for the game of throne spoiler and the work of the gray matter. I need to work out my little gray cells too. I can hear them hum and bum in my head. Poor little things got fried after the electrical shock of the above mentioned information. LOL
Thank you all :)
yeah - a bit crafty, that one ! lmao
One of the reasons your post seemed not to be liked by people is because they never saw it.
Only those that saw it had an opportunity to judge it, and this a huge problem for new accounts, particularly lately, as the number of votes available to minnows was decreased by 400%.
One way to better ascertain whether your post was judged by those that saw it at all, is to compare views to upvotes. If you got 4 votes out of 4 views, you're batting 1000.
It's OK, I wasn't really that concerned, to be honest -
I was just using as an example. - I'm very new here, and realize it takes work and effort . (which was the point I was making about people being rewarded, for neither.)
I have some thoughts on that subject, but just letting them ferment at the moment ( and still trying to get a grip on the whole process of steemit)
We never get a grip, AFAIK lol
As for fermenting, that's the only way to get a potent brew! However, unless you reckon Everclear is what you want (great fuel, but makes for a short night out drinking) it might be better to release the Kraken when the motivation hits.
YMMV. It's all on you! lol
oh, followed !
Thanks! I look forward to being schooled at your earliest convenience =)
patience is a much overlooked quality lol
@theleapingkoala thank you for sharing with us here because I think what you share is how many of us are feeling and you had the courage to share it! It is up to us to decide as a community how to best work together because the more we reward a great effort, the more we will all come out ahead. At the same time, investors expect to earn a return on investment. How do we balance out needing to reward authors, especially those working the most at the bottom with the lowest reward, with the need for investors to feel holding Steem Power is worth it? I will create a new post on this and include what you have shared here in the discussion!
@jerrybanfield Thank you very much for your prompt reply and for planning to share my opinion and even upvoting it instead of flagging it ;)
I love constructive discussion and I would love to read more interesting posts and discuss them.
I have been planning to make helping people my business but I am very new to all the social media platforms. Steemit is the first public platform I actually used to do blogging and interacting and I like it a lot.
As long as there are different people, there will always be abuse of systems/ideas no matter how good they are. That is inevitable. But it is up to us (people who want to make a positive difference) to do what we can.
I hope this doesnt sound like begging, but I invite you to visit and please check some of the posts (I haven't been writing much lately until I figure out how steemit work) but I have been trying to share any payout from my posts with other minnows. It would be great if you would upvote these posts from time to time to increase the pool of rewards I could share. Of course, if you feel like doing it.
Thanks again @jerrybanfield and @cryptoninja for upvoting my comment :)
Hi @theleapingkoala,
I also responded to you below, but you sound like a great candidate to join the Minnow Support Group and the PAL discord. Great group of over 5000 people who help with everything from post promotion to proofreading, and lots of chat and other programs.
They have a variety of services like the minnow-upvote bots that will help you bump up your posts a little bit, at least enough to get into the Hot category on more obscure topics. A lot of us delegate SP to the MSP bot to help with this process (I put all my new liquid rewards there, beyond what I need to maintain a vote slider).
I strongly recommend you check it out. Here's an outdated (can skip Streemian) checklist for joining.
http://minnowsupportproject.org/
Hi @lexiconical
I am honored that you think I am a great candidate to join the Minnow support group. Thank you very much for your trust and upvote.
I would love to join and make a good difference in Steemians' experience with steemit (especially minnows of course)
I will definitely look into it to join.
Many thanks again :D
We'd love to see you in the chat, which doesn't even require joining.
Hopefully this link works (You may need to download Discord):
https://discordapp.com/channels/319885228464406528/319885228464406528
Sure @theleapingkoala I upvoted a few of your recent posts. Would you submit your best new posts on the newest upvotable posts in the comments because that will help me feature them every two days and send more readers your way?
@jerrybanfield, Thank you very much for your support and the offer to submit my post in the upvotable.
Many Thanks indeed :D
I am sure you will agree @jerrybanfield, that effort alone does not imbue content with value. The content is valued by the subjective worth of the ideas and entertainment value, and hard work to produce and format it properly can greatly increase this value.
Upvoted, even if it may ease your frustration only partly. :)
Hahaha, Sorry for being grumpy :P
Thanks you very much @jaki01 and everyone else for your upvotes and comments.
Beside the fact that making money is awesome, being upvoted by you makes me feel happy because it means my voice has been heard by several important figures on steemit.
So yes, I feel less frustrated now ;)
Thank you all very much again :D
(I know my upvote is worth little, it is just to show my appreciation :D)