Is this considered "Steemit Abusing"? Need your opinions.

in #steemitabuse7 years ago (edited)

@sndbox's postings looked very neat and also looked like he was doing lots of projects that appear to be popular. And he may be doing all of those as they seem.
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However, apart from that, he is doing another business that he never mentions anywhere in his postings.
And that is a voting business that runs based on membership fee.
You give 40 SBD a month to him and you will get very high returns.
Here are the IDs of 95 people who are using this service. I got this info from @sndbox’s wallet and the transactions only show back to 17 days. So I assume there are more than 95 IDs who subscribe.
I have no relationship with these people and I have no intention of accusing these people, either.
I just want to share the info with everybody and talk about whether this behavior is OK or not.
Like I said, all the information is a public disclosure. Anybody who is curious will be able to find this info and sort them out like I did.

@shortcut @carrotcake @dontstopmenow @errymil @kr-collegeclub

@fingersik @soyo @reddragonfly @heymattsokol @cloh76

@levycore @abduhawab @nairadaddy @tata1 @world-travel-pro

@steeminator3000 @ezgibaki @theghost1980 @coloringiship @dreamiely

@roused @mintvilla @jrswab @leesongyi @aaronli

@sireh @asbonclz @fathin-shihab @howtostartablog @luvabi

@ayijufridar @dunsky @maverickfoo @mrblinddraw @playitforward

@jaff8 @fakire1sadaka @eurogee @bearone @bree1042

@hknyasar @leaky20 @steemitph @aaronleang @teachblogger

@meanmommy33 @themanualbot @leesol @yoon @zuma

@kemal13 @osm0sis @jassennessaj @smaeunabs @deveerei

@paolobeneforti @silviabeneforti @elizacheng @kenan1989 @kalvas

@monomyth @alvinauh @myego13 @zord189 @erb

@crypto3d @leotrap @vitruvianman @lazariko12

(transactions between members and @sndbox)
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There is no obligation of law here. We follow our morality which works as laws here in Steemit.
The comment field below is wide open to everyone who wants to add their opinions, to complain or even protest.
Steemit that I picture is a healthy place where each of us, is individually decentralized without creating centralized power. Only thing we want to centralize is our empathy and companionship, not money.

In my personal judgement, I am concerned that it could do me any harm eventually that all these members make @sndbox create the money pool and they get higher rewards in return, considering the members are getting benefits on almost all of their postings.

I am writing this post so that I would know if my judgement is right or wrong.

To me, Steemit is a great way to encourage myself to write about my stories and to also help others to write about their stories. And now Steemit offers a 90days Steem Power delegation at a great rate(you get 90% more than what you pay for. I recently used this service so now my voting power is 0.13 and I know this number will only go up as time passes by) This system is built on healthy and desirable basis.

However, these 95 people or IDs, rather, are getting voted with very high SBDs from @sndbox from paying him 40SBD every month. Could I say that they are abusing SBDs? Are they stealing my money indirectly?
Since they are not stealing my money directly out of my wallet, is their behavior considered to be smart?

I was told that the SBD I receive from my writings come from money someone invested in Steemit. I invested $ 1000 in my account to boost my Steem Power and I spent 24 SBD for 90 day delegation service.

Doesn’t this mean that I am one of the investors, too? Isn’t it a spirit of the whole cryptocurrencies? Small people like you and me to help build a new eco-system that is transparent and healthy?
Why do some people want to plant the seed of corruption in the healthy ecosystem like Steemit?
Is it because there are already huge trees of corruptions growing in Steemit that only I don’t know of?

There was one post that seems to be actually talking about something realistic among his early posts of @sndbox. (Like I said earlier, all of his postings has nice illustrations and writings but doesn’t really have tangible ideas.)
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But this one(https://steemkr.com/introduceyourself/@sndbox/official-launch-of-sndbox-a-steemit-incubator-for-creatives-and-entrepreneurs) shows a couple of actual IDs and a link that is linked outside of Steemit which is https://streemian.com/

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This website was somewhat tedious unlike his posts.
But I got the better sense of how this service works.
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When you become a member, you ‘unlock’ your account for them to access so they can control your account, meaning that you send your writing via emails or some other ways and then they handle the rest of it like uploading your post and immediately voting for your post with huge amount of rewards by using their designated IDs such as @sndbox, @hansikhouse, @voronoi and also alternating other members’ IDs too.
(I picked out a few random people out of 95, and I see repeatedly the same IDs on the votings).

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My guess is when a member uploads his post by himself, then there is no huge rewards from the company while when a member send his writing to the company and the company uploads for the member, then that post gets big rewards. You will see the huge difference on the reward amount between when the company gets involved in the votings and when it doesn’t.

All these members are using the same logo at the end of their posts. It must be an indicator for their membership.

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And the @sndbox’s posts are so well decorated and the rewards are always well over $100, so the comment field below is always crowded. So out of my curiosity, I clicked several commentators. And sadly, all these people were minnows whose posts only gets 0.03, 0.05, 0.35 etc, getting sucked in for curation rewards.
If his posts attract this much attentions and get this much rewards, shouldn’t I see most of comments being placed between many of his members(subscribers) and him, instead of all the minnows and him?
@sndbox is bilingual at Korean and English, by the way.

Now the judgment is yours. If their behaviors is considered to be an abuse on the financial aspect of Steemit in your opinion, please resteem my post so it can spread it quickly, and vote my post to show your support so that future reporters like me and you to find more cases.
I believe that the more supporters we get, the faster Steemit will become one eco-system that doesn’t allow any room for curruption.

Thank you,
Sincerely,
@ddd67


After my posting uploaded, I read 5 comments(in my Korean posting)so far and would like to add some more resources because some people don’t look at this as abuse. And I have a convincing fact that why this can result in a big corruption and an eventual collapse of Steemit.

I just picked @shortcut who is simply the first person of the 95 people.
https://steemkr.com/@shortcut

@shortcut wrote a total of 13 articles a month recently.
Total amount he got rewarded was 453.03 for a month. There was only one article that received just 9.10 which I think he would normally receive from his ‘real’ followers without this service.
So, you spend 40 and receives 453. This is a great business, isn’t it? But then, wait, where does this 413 come from?
It comes from the solid finance structure of Steemit because we love the spirit of Steemit and we want Steemit to continue to grow meaning we actively write and invest. But with their excessively high reward rate, do you think the system will last solidly forever? Remember @shortcut is only one of 95 people from only one service company. Who knows how many of this kind of companies exist in here.

It could go forever if only a few percentage of users do this without us realizing. But luckily Steemit is open to everybody and person like me can catch it. Meaning everybody can catch it. And first thing in my mind, oh crap, let me pull out my investment. So this is my theory. Steemit is a beautiful ecosystem that allows lots of ways to make revenue but abusing the finance is not a beautiful way.

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Hello, I highly encourage you to search for what an incubator is. Sndbox dedicates their whole existence to support people who post quality content and to give that extra help for projects that help the community. I would advice you to go to each and every profile you named here and read some of their posts, all of them are top quality posts. The membership is to cover some of the costs of the incubator that, as you may be aware of, has a lot of projects of their own.

Before making a post like this, you could´ve reached to any of the leaders or even one of the people listed here, they could´ve explained to you how sndbox is run, but you prefered to make a post about something you don´t know about :/

If you have any question about sndbox please, hit me on dm over discord #8455 @anomadsoul

Yes, there are so many nice posts of the sndbox subscribers, so are there ones of non-subscribers' which is the majority of the Steemians.
And I wish all the posts get treated by individual curators not by a certain company(who has big voting power).
I know you have zero complaining about @sndbox. If I were you, I wouldn't, either. I would love it.
But I choose not to become their member(even if they want me so bad^^) Because I want my posts encourage others to write their own stories too and I want most of my rewards to come from my followers who actually communicate with me in the comment field.
What I believe in is a P2P social network, not a P2WhaleCompany social network.
But everybody can think differently.
So I thank you for you coming here and leave your opinion.

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I second what @leotrap and @anomadsoul said about @sndbox.
And although this is a free speech platform, I usually would try to understand the things, before I start to accuse someone of abuse.

In particular, what you said about my last month's rewards is not correct. Either you added some of my resteemed posts to your sum or you forgot to substract the 25% curation rewards.

However, regarding steemdb and the open rewards of february, I have made about 246,256 SBDs and 60,294 SP. To make things easier, we could say, this would be about 300 SBD. If you check steemreports for the last 30 days of my account, you'll see, that the @sndbox upvotes made about 25% of my rewards. So 25% of 300 SBDs would be 75 SBD. When you now substract the 40 SBDs membership fee, you will get a @sndbox reward of 35 SBDs for a month (instead of the 450 SBDs, you suspected me).

If you check my account, you'll see, that I'm really picky about which posts I submit for @sndbox support. Only about half of my posts in february got sndbox-support at all, because I only submit high quality content, that I think brings more than average value to the community.

Nevertheless, we might need to communicate more clearly, that sndbox is supporting projects and people with the vision to bring Steemit and the community to the next level, which is exactly the opposite of what you thought.

Hi,
Thanks for your explanation. I still have hard time understanding how 300 SBD became 75. Your normal vote without their support gets about 10 but when they vote, it gets from 40 to 60. Of course, I didn't add the ones that are resteemed by you.
Anyway, I'm so glad you posted here with the matter of money.
I don't take any issue of what they're doing as far as their projects such as Steem Park or publishing a magazine, etc.
They are free to do that but the voting support is too big(as I spotted), then it creates very sensitive vibe around the community.
And that doesn't help other steemians to get motivated to write their stories.
And Steemit is about and for distributed and decentralized individuals so eventually we don't have to work for a company who wants to make their belly full first. We don't have to get to the ideal world fast, I believe, as long as everybody is offered and can get there without one falling behind(we've seen this enough around the off-line world from the past to the present). And we don't really need to have some company/power to get involved to make that happen.
I'll take a look into other subscribers' wallets and their posts to see what is the average rewards from sndbox.
Thanks!

I still have hard time understanding how 300 SBD became 75. Your normal vote without their support gets about 10 but when they vote, it gets from 40 to 60.

That's just incorrect. Here are some of my other posts of last month without any @sndbox support at all (27$, 40$,40$). The one with 10$ was just the winner announcement of a giveaway.

Speaking for myself, I'm happy to be part of this group to get help and support for several projects, I want to realize, like my @creative-commons initiative, the crowdfunding of the printed version of a webcomic called Phill from GCHQ, my incentive to bring about 2k video and film editors from my Avid Editing facebook group to Steemit and organizing several meetups in my area.

I'm also supporting other members of the group with their projects and I'm trying to curate some good content for the @sndbox-alpha initiative, which upvotes content outside the sndbox incubator.

Although there are sometimes rewards at Steemit, which are hard to comprehend, I try to focus on the positive effects, Steemit had on my life. For example I always wanted to be an artist, but only through Steemit I've got the appreciation and feedback for my creative work, that I missed all the years. I've never found a more welcoming community online before and I'm pretty sure, that everybody who follows his passion has the chance to succeed here in the long run.