Well, if I might interpret, it sounds like they're going after haejin, who has been called out for months now for posting analytics for individual cryptos which amount to a chart and a few words (so low quality), then self-upvoting and receiving an even greater upvote from a whale that also delegates him STEEM. He can post up to 10 times a day or more (so considered spamming), and has a large following of smaller accounts that are either his own (I don't know if that's the case but they do tend to exclusively vote for him, just like the whale), hoping to make something in curation or actually follow his advice. If you got down into the comment section you will see someone has posted his avatar from his account.
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You hit the nail head on... and in so many less words than me! Thank you :)
You get a newbie nickel for that my friend!!! (and good to see you glen!)
I am generally the one who takes the longer route, so not sure what happened with my explanation, but I guess I can do it when it's called upon. :) I appreciate the nickel.
Ah. I see. Thanks for the explanation @glenalbrethsen. It all sounds a bit scary to me.
I'm not keen on the language of battle personally and am a bit disappointed to see it here to be honest. I find it all a bit divisive. 😢
Yeah, it is a bit scary, and pretty divisive.
I understand why people feel it should be done. I know there was a cease and desist that lasted for about a day, so diplomacy, if that's what you want to call it, didn't work out.
I think it should be handled, I just don't like the way it's going down as a call to arms. There's something about taking things into your own hands, even on a platform where there really isn't a governing body, that just doesn't feel very good.
And if this is the only way change takes place on Steemit, what will the next mob go after? These kinds of things only seem to escalate, or cause the rest of us to look over our shoulders and wonder who's next.
My feelings exactly @glenalbrethsen. I don't know what the answer is either and, like you, I think it should be handled, but battle never ends well. And, it seems to go against the ethos of the platform. It reminds me of fighting wars in the name of religion. If Steemit is to be a leader in decentralised community then can't we come up with a better way than this to handle such things?
Seems to me there are many incredibly innovative and creative people here, surely there must be a better way. 😍
@Boom yes, @gillianpearce agreed!
And thank you @glenalbrethsen for your clarity in explaining the situation to us!
For me this comes down to a potential need for some way of maintaining high ethical standards within the community. And the need for an effective penalty such as the one facebook has of barring a person from posting for a period of time, or removing them completely.
I can see that the lure of financial gain for those tech savvy enough to exploit a decentralised platform like steemit is pretty seductive. Further I have a distaste for the whole upvoting bots, resteeming bots, paid for promoters. Surely we should have pride in our posts and our work should stand on it's own merits?
This is sounding a lot like the wild west posse to me...and although I personally deeply appreciate the principle of decentralisation..it does raise the question of how can governance be instituted without the formation of a governing body from within the community?
You state this very well and I agree with everything. It is a mechanism built into the system to all for decentralization. What you are witnessing in the wild west in a way as we are still new like the old west was.
In reality fulltimegeek has so much power it scared him and so he delegated it to others for the good of the community. He tried to do it right and recognized the harm of having too much power.
Unfortunately the bad guy here doens't have the same ethics and only cares about himself. Therefore there is only one solution, and that is the people with power have to either agree or not. They don't so there is a policing mechanism call "flagging" and that is what will happen. The problem with using flags is the other can hit you back. And this bad guy got so powerful that no one could challenge him any more...
Until today
fulltimegeek is bringing back the power that he has loaned out to people to get system back in balance. That is what is meant. The reason it is phrased as a war is that the bad guy will fight back and try to keep fulltimegeek from stopping him. No blood will be shed, but the future of the platform rests on the outcome, because if fulltimegeek loses then the bad guy will be unstoppable.
So your last question about governance is a good one, but the founders of the platform believed that good will win out over evil... We will see, but I think they were pretty smart to enable someone doing bad things to be stopped by the community at large.
Actually I think you will see that this is the better way. There won't be any blood shed, it will be one of the big guys bringing another big guy into line. It happens everyday. What makes this different, is that people have been upset for a long time and none of the whales did anything about it. And so the bad guy was able to build up tremendous power as a result. This is really just to fix that.
I understand your points and would normally agree with you. But I would point out that @fulltimegeek isn't inciting a mob, he is just taking his power back. He was so powerful that he was is the same position. He didn't like that he had that much power, so he delegated almost it all away to the stewardsofgondor so they could use it to build the community.
Unfortunately the one who you speak to has no interest is anyone else, his sole aim is to take as much as possible out of the system for himself and his buddies. There is only one way to stop him because he failed to listen to anyones pleas to stop. And that is that fulltimegeek take him on by bringing back the power that he has delegated out.
So in my opinion, this isn't a case of mob rules... In fact I would argue that most people that are aware of the situation will be cheering one person losing so much influence. There will be no war if the bad guy quits the practices you mentioned, but if no one stops him then he will keep getting stronger each day.
I am personally pumped because I have seen people quit in frustration about how hard it is to survive here. The people at the bottom have no control against some of these whales. Here we have one that has not only tried to help everyone by delegating out his own SP in the past, he is now bringing it back in to stop the guy from taking even more. He has already said that he will only take him down to the 60s where he can be managed by others.
I know that it seems unfair that one person can do this, but since that is the way that the platform is structured it is what it is. I would rather have fulltimegeek use his power to stop the bad guy, than have him sit and watch as we get an even lessor pie as time goes on.
I think ultimately, we're going to need to agree to disagree on this one.
The fact of the matter is, there are no rules here. You're pretty much free to do whatever you want. Unless someone with enough power objects, singularly, which is mostly the case, or collectively, and then takes matters into their own hands. When they could have done it a long time ago and for whatever reasons didn't.
Whatever sense of fair play others may have, or whatever etiquette people might want to instill does not make it law. Law here is hardwired in, how it functions. Someone going against someone else's sensibilities isn't law.
That said, very few are going to disagree with the idea that haejin's had his chances to ease off and that he needs to, if for nothing more than good will or for the good of the order.
Letting him continue at a lesser degree isn't going to address whether or not his posts add value. The abuse will still be there, just in a lesser, more tolerable degree, I guess.
Anyway, I'm going to stop. My issue isn't with you, and this is probably another post all together. :)
:) ... Glen, if there was one guy on this platform that I would want to agree with me, it would be you... I have always agreed with every point you've made, so you definitely have my respect. So first I will say thanks for weighing in because you always make me think. And second, I read your reply and I think I agree with everything you said. lol
So if we disagree, I'm not exactly sure what we are disagreeing about. But I'm completely with you when you say that we can have a difference of opinion! You have always added value to me every time I see you speak, so always feel free to tell me like it is!!!
If you make that post, let me know because I'd like to wrap my mind around your point and see what you see ;)
Here's another newbie nickel to the man I have utmost respect :D
he did a great job of explaining it... And I agree with you that war is not something that I like to see at all... Unfortunately I don't see any other way since the guy Glen referenced will not stop unless someone stops him. He will continue to take a greater share and greater share until there is nothing left for anyone else and we all leave.
The system was designed with certain rules and this is all part of the process.