I enjoy very few movies, I'm not a movie guy, I'm not a movie collector, or anything like that, but since I did get myself a PlayStation earlier this year, and it does come packed with a good bluray player, there were a couple of movies I decided to buy.
One purchase was the Terminator Quadrilogy bluray box.
I've always enjoyed the first two Terminator movies, which is rare since movies tend to bore me a lot of the time. Maybe I should just watch more good movies, right?
Anyway, I like time travel stories a lot, which is a big reason for my love for the Terminator franchise - at least the first two films - but stories dealing with time travelling also hurt my head a lot quite often.
I spend way too much time thinking about stuff like this.
But it's hard for me to not spend time thinking about some of the time travel stuff in the movies that makes no sense.
The first movie has the obvious head scratcher of Kyle Reese being John Connor's father, even though he first meets with Sarah Connor in the past.
If we look at this from the perspective of there once being an original timeline, which is altered by the time travel, this obviously makes no sense since John Connor would have a different father in the original timeline, and would grow up to be a different man as a result. You can't just switch fathers and still give birth to the same person.
The Terminator being sent back in time also makes no sense if we consider the timeline to be alterable:
- The Terminator was sent back in time to kill John Connor before he was born, by killing his mother Sarah Connor. Succeeding in this would mean that John Connor would not lead the human resistance in the future.
- Therefore SkyNet would have no reason to send the Terminator back in time in the future.
- But therefore John Connor would be born, and would lead the human resistance in the future.
- And therefore SkyNet would send the Terminator back in time to kill him.
It becomes and endless loop.
This is often explained away by using the predestination paradox, which basically means that when a time traveler travels to the past, he travels to fulfill his role in the timeline, not change it. Everything simply happens as its supposed to happen. There is always only one timeline, and it can't be altered.
The Terminator and Kyle Reese traveling in time to the past was always a part of the timeline, and could not be avoided.
In the first movie, this is supported by the picture that is taken from Sarah at the end of the movie, since the photo is the same one that Kyle has in the future.
I could live with this. Predestination. One predetermined, unaltered timeline. Fine.
But.
The second movie craps all over this by making the story all about how we can change the future.
In the second movie, Sarah, John and the Terminator destroy Cyberdyne, which is the company responsible for SkyNet in the future, thus making sure the SkyNet AI never becomes active and never starts an attack against the humans.
All well and good on the surface, but I remember this making my head hurt when I was young:
If the Terminator destroys Cyberdyne, and makes sure SkyNet will never be, then how can he exist in the future and travel to the past?
The predestination paradox doesn't work here, since the theme of the movie is "There's no fate but what we make for ourselves", and it's all about changing the timeline.
Sure, the third movie changes things up once again by making Judgement Day inevitable, but I don't count that, since the movie was made by different people anyway.
I'm only focusing on the first two movies.
If, in the first movie, there was only one timeline, in which the Terminator and Kyle Reese travel back in time to fulfill their roles - including Kyle Reese fathering John Connor - then the second movie makes no sense since SkyNet is destroyed, and the future is altered to be one where there is no war between humans and machines.
Making all this time traveling in the future never taking place.
Anyone else like me and can't help but ponder stuff like this, even though it's pure fiction and unrealistic by design? Is there help available?
I'm going to let Star Trek sort this one out for you (lol):
"If we look at this from the perspective of there once being an original timeline, which is altered by the time travel, this obviously makes no sense since John Connor would have a different father in the original timeline, and would grow up to be a different man as a result. You can't just switch fathers and still give birth to the same person."
From memory alpha:
"Both Kathryn Janeway and B'Elanna Torres knew the "finer points" of temporal mechanics, which included understanding one of the more difficult concepts of the field to grasp, which was that "sometimes effect can precede cause" and that "a reaction can be observed before the action which initiated it." (VOY: "Parallax")"
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Temporal_mechanics
To be honest, the question I have is why you think about such things so much? .ovies are full with any type of missunderstanding and failures, but yet they are considered as successful. And still, congrats on the deep analysis. I've watched all the movies without the last one. It's part of my childhood..
lol. what?
Thinking about this shit is half the fun!!
You remind me, when thinking about the Alien :D
at least movie was worth seeing
One of my favorite movies, i love movies with time travel, teleportation and these time loops.
I also watched the show that ended quite surprisingly, unfortunately I think there will be no more series.
Overall, it remains one of the best fantastic Sci-Fi movies, old but gold
Hm... I never felt that twist because the "happy ending" of the second movie never seamed realistic anyway.
So they blew up a couple computers and melted the scrap terminator parts. The lead scientist is dead. All good now. Whaaat?! There is an entire research team around the guy, that is still alive. They may not be as genious and they don't have the parts anymore. But they have seen them. They know it can be done. Their bosses know it can be done.
The office building will be replaced by insurance. If not, they will just raise money. If they can't, the research team will be taken in by some other tech company, that has enough money.
So the theme of the movie was actually misleading. They never prevented anything, they just postponed it. The Connors were lying to themselves. As for the terminator, maybe he was programmed to believe it/to lie about to make sure they don't lose faith. Maybe he was sure other humans would be too stupid to finish the research. Thinking to binary ;D
I think it was more of an open-ended ending
I think a willing suspense of disbelief is in order.
NO!
Come on, you can do it. Use alcohol if you have to.
I don't drink. Maybe that's my problem right there.
Hey, I think you'd enjoy "Ex machina"
I liked that movie!
That was one of the most detailed terminator posts ive ever read in my life
i spend a lot of time thinking about if birds can see into other dimensions because they can see colours that we cant.... so i guess when it comes to over thinking about stuff i guess we're on the same page
Just reading your post is making my head hurt
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Well i don't agree with this that the 2nd movie was crap, i think the second terminator movie is the best action movie of all time, where visual effects are its best, and even today movies are not better as compare to those visual effects, story is top class and some one liners are still very popular among the masses @schattenjaeger
Wait, what? I never said the second movie was crap? It's a classic, I like it a lot.
Terminator is still one of the movies out there. great article
I agree, the part where it all tries to move towards creating a better future for mankind was heartwarming and engaging but kind of lame too.
Skynet is only a software - it can easly get in the endless loop. One stupid developer is enough. Back to the future trilogy -another good object for critics!
You need to see "Primer".
See here's the thing..time traveling been going on for many years now and still is! Not only that but much more such as teleportation and so on. Thank you for sharing this post it sparked my long interest in time traveling!!!
Great article!! 👊🏼👍🏻. I'm big fan of the terminator. "I'll be back"
Watch the Predestination if you haven't seen it before. It is even more f-ed!
Back to the Future (1985) is a classic time traveling film, I strongly suggest watching it if you like time traveling theme, I like Terminator though!
wow, pretty interesting. I haven't really watch T 1 and 2 since I was a kid (propbably shouldn't have watched it then) but I propbably should watch it again.
Have you watched the movie Primer? Kind of a timetravelling mindfuck.
PS. Yes, I can't sleep and am binge reading your posts.