Is there anyone as intolerant as those tolerant people?
Is that opening line just “click-bait” or is @papa-pepper actually serious? That, remains to be determined.
The main “enemy” of pro-tolerance people are the intolerant. These intolerant people basically dislike, avoid, or even hate people who are not similar to themselves. Perhaps the dividing line is ethnic, political, religious, tribal, ideological, or something else, but regardless of exactly what the dividing line is, it is there, and the intolerant just won’t tolerate anyone on the other side of that line.
The pro-tolerant people claim that regardless of what supposed dividing lines there may be, it is wrong to be intolerant of others, just because they may be different from you.
They then continue and generally claim that everyone is free to hold whatever beliefs, lifestyles, or personal choices that they want, and no one should be able to tell them otherwise.
I know that many people love to hate hypocrites, but can anyone see what’s going on here?
The “tolerant” people are extremely intolerant of those who are intolerant.
Despite claiming that people should all tolerate and accept one another regardless of how they behave, how they live, or what they believe, they don’t.
Even though they claim that it’s wrong to hate people just because they are different, they hate the intolerant, just because they are different.
For the record, @papa-pepper is NOT intolerant, but I’m also NOT that kind of tolerant.
Also, I’m not encouraging others to be intolerant, nor am I encouraging them to be that type of “tolerant” either.
Has anyone else considered these things? If you are one of the “tolerant” people referred to above, I kindly request that you not reply with justifications either. People always seem to want to justify their hatred of others. Just as we are free to be hypocritical, others are free to make poor choices as well. I don’t agree with hate, but I think that we miss more than we are aware of.
A common mentality seems to be that we should love everyone. Well, we should love everyone, except “the haters” of course. If we can label someone a “hater” then we are free to hate them. However, once we hate them, I believe that we become a real “hater,” which should then give others the right to hate us under that mentality, correct?
This is why I don’t like “vicious circles” that repeat themselves. They are vicious and hurt people.
Also, I don’t believe that every belief is valid. Contradictory views cannot both be valid in most situations. However, if we are going to love people, let’s not just have it be based upon who they are, but also despite who they are. Only loving those who agree with us is a shallow love.
I think that we can do better, if we choose to. Obviously, most people never choose to.
So, does @papa-pepper hate the haters? No, of course not, they already have enough hate without me giving them more. Am I willing to tolerate the “tolerant?” Somebody should, and I am somebody, or at least that’s what my mom always told me!
But what about the intolerant? Hmmm…. Should we keep showing them how to be tolerant by not tolerating them and demanding that they conform to our viewpoint? I’ll tell you what, if you think that’ll work, I won’t try to ruin it for you.
Anyway, I say that there is a better way, and if you think that may be a valid thought to consider, then I’m sure that you can figure it out.
BE BLESSED, AND FULL STEEM AHEAD!
FOLLOW
I feel just as much excluded as I do included. I suppose it's a healthy balance. As long as I remain true to myself and honest with others combined with a bit of minding my own business, these sort of things you mentioned @papa-pepper don't really bother me. I'll never please everyone and I can live with that.
There will always be differences of opinion, it's all a matter of how we deal with them.
I'm worried about you Papa.
Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12
Exactly, sitting by and doing nothing (tolerating everything) merely allows evil to continue.
For one example of many : If you tolerate hate speech, you approve of hate speech.
We need to actively move society in a better direction, we need to stand up and say something when the intolerable occurs.
A very interesting point. I think a distinction should be made between tolerating peoples' words and beliefs and their actions, my guess is that Mr P was talking only about the former. Having said that there is a grey area between words and actions which occurs when people incite others to commit crimes and in that situation I agree with you completely.
Freedom means freedom of association. This means also that people must be free to disassociate themselves from others, whether their reason for this separation is rational or not.
I can be tolerant of idiots who don't use coercion to back their idiotic ideas. I probably won't choose to associate with them, though.
I can't be tolerant of puritanical, authoritarian busybody control freaks.
We certainly do need the freedom to (dis)associate, hopefully without any hatred being involved.
Rule by force is the problem.
Until we reject that, this is as good as it gets.
Excellent point. (Is it a hollow point?)
I prefer wadcutters.
LOL!
These are words from a wise man! And indeed, the word "tolerance" may have to be re-defined altogether, if society is to live in peace.
Just have a close look on the creation of the word tolerance. It comes from latin tolerare which means suffering. In the early middle age the king would like to 10 % taxes and the people have fought a bloddy war against that. Then the church created the word tolerance and praised it from the pulpit as a virtue ;-) So we got manipulated with words since centuries.
Well for the most part you right I do my best to be tollerent of everyone. Yet at times I just can not stand how intollerent some people can be. In those situations I try to simply avoid them since I can not stand them yet I don't wish to be intollerent it seems avoiding them helps.
Thank you for this interesting point.
Thank you for your interesting repky! ;-)
I accept people for who they are and am tolerant to what they do. Being tolerant of others is only a means to being compassionate toward one and other, despite our differences. If someone hates you, the best thing you can do to belittle their hatred is ignore them; you accept their hatred for what it is and move on. Their hatred will swell and eventually consume them, or they will accept their misguided endeavor and change.
Being tolerant is to accept someone's difference in opinion, to not judge them by it, and to build upon what they already know, together as a team. For example, I do not believe in dogmas, however I am willing to converse with someone who does in order to learn why it is that they do. I am willing to disagree with a person rationally in order for us both to come to a constructive conclusion.
This is not to say that I lose my temper sometimes and become the opposite of what I've just said. Being human I can't help my impulse to react irrationally. I have done this many times, even recently.
The battle here is within each of us to decide how we accept one and other. The person who becomes irrational is ultimately the loser. The winner is the one who constructs a healthy and virtuous relationship with others.
Be the change you wish to see in the world.
Right, compassion needs to rule if we are desiring that others improve in viewpoint.
Precisely.
I did once ask a roomful of friends (small gathering, not party XD) if my intolerance of intolerance made me intolerant and therefore one of the people I was intolerant of. Everyone laughed and no one gave me a straight answer (though there did follow a massive philosophical discussion which I mostly listened to and don't completely recall now as there was alcohol involved).
These days I just put up with some things and not with others, but I think that might also have something to do with getting old in my old age (I'm only anime old).
But yes. I still haven't nutted that one out either :)
An excellent question to offer up for thought on your part.
another thought-provoking and discussion-provoking post by papapep!
Thanks!
For me, complete tolerance and my personal morals are at odds with each other. Under full tolerance, there can still be judgment, but you cannot act upon that judgment; hate crime will not be fought, bullshit theories will not be debunked into oblivion, etc.
You need to be careful with the word "tolerance" though. It sounds like a magnanimous thing, but it still lets you keep your self-inflicted moral or logical superiority, arrogantly placing yourself at a higher level than the other. For instance, if I, heathen, would ever say I "tolerate" Christians, you can kick me. People believe different things, that's a given, saying you "tolerate" that doesn't paint a pretty picture of yourself. Better to just be neutral about it, until it clashes with your morals.
A final remark: a lot of so called "tolerance" is just indifference, and should be called that.
End of ramble.
Yes, in many cases indifference would be a better word, and judgment calls still do need to be made.
Your post reminded me of the time I dropped a Bart Simpson and all I said for a few hours was, "it's all fucking circles, everything, just fucking circles."
Or, as I responded to my kid when she came home from school, annoyed, saying: "so and so did such and such to me, I'm going to do it to her, see how she likes it!"
"Why would you copy the behaviour of someone you don't particularly like? Do you want to turn into her?"
What happened @papa-pepper? I could feel the emotion you put into that, as if it were stemming from an attack made on you. I'm sorry if that's the case :(
Much love to you;)
No, I'm just lamenting society in general these days.
Ah, the circus of this past year, featuring the top performers Horrible witchy woman and Loud rude man. I don't believe in the political system, or any of the systems in place in this country actually. Self-governance and empathy, those are my 'systems'. Personal preference though I would have to say I greatly dislike Horrible as a being and i don't mind Loud quite as much, though I no longer care about the farce of government. I played peacemaker between highly emotional/angry friends and family who were almost split down the middle over the whole charade. Tolerance and intolerance were definitely thrown around quite a bit when last I spent any time on FB, I'm not overly fond of the words. Actually I ducked out of FB because it was really bringing me down to see such poison darts being thrown, like you're feeling right now. I much prefer Love One Another. Or love your neighbor as yourself. Perhaps Love conquers all? ;) Tolerate isn't an overly positive word in its purest form let alone when you add more negative inflections to it. And society...let's ask Eddie Vedder about it, LOL
Thanks for your concern though.