As usual I am on no side of this haha. I do not agree with violence of course, and try to root it out of my life best I can. I will not participate with the 'flag war' but I also see that there is a major issue here and the flag was designed to combat the reward pool rape that is going on. So I am a little on both sides, I wish there was a better way to stop the abuse!
Mostly, however, I am glad that there are no 'steemit police' per say and that the community has to mobalize themselves in order to solve these issues.
Is there a better way? I dont agree with violence against violence, because that concept is pretty absurd, but the reward pool rape is nearly stealing from all of the other users as well, and I think that is violent too.
Then, how can we peacefully get rid of this abuse so that Steemit is fair, when the abuser wont listen since his scheme is working so well?
You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
You claim the pool is being raped, but I've yet to see anybody provide evidence that it is indeed being raped or that people are being harmed as a result.
hmmm, well, on steem.supply we can see the percent of the reward pool he is claiming is pretty high, over 1 percent http://steem.supply/@haejin . Considering the amount of users on here, I think even small percentages count for a lot. nearly a million users, I am horrible at math so i am not going to try to figure out how much he is taking from each person. It seems to stand that if that percent was distributed more equally more people would get better rewards, since by what I understand there is a fixed number of rewards each day, hence the voting power.
I mean like its not really directly hurting anyone (though a lot of things dont directly hurt people but are still violent irl) but it definitely cannot be fair. Its not majority rule either that gives him such high rewards, there is a clear bias with his supporters. I suppose this isnt entirely violent either but again, not fair.
Do you believe that having a monopoly on the reward pool, (even since 1 percent seems like a pretty small number I think it proportionally pretty large) is unfair? Is this unfairness violence? I dont know.
Unfairness is NOT violence! Force is violence. Coercion is the non-physical manifestation. Is anyone coercing votes for haejin? THAT would be violence.
I am glad you have an opinion on that, I havent thought about it hard or long enough to figure it all out yet. Everything in life is a little unfair so yeah that makes sense. Thank you!
There is a whole philosophy based upon it, the Non-Aggression Principle. It is lovely, and helps sort a LOT of stuff out.
ehh I have heard a lot about that principle but I have not studied it yet. Too many things to study! Only so much time and brain space!
Its an important one, sorta like non violent communication I suppose?
Ahhhh, so now you want the system to distribute the rewards pool based on what is 'fair'? Who gets to determine that? You? Me? And if that determination then identifies one individual who violates that determination, does that then justify attacking him?
That is not evidence of harm. That is evidence of envy.
I suppose it might be envy, but im not envious. If a majority of stakeholders on Steemit deem it is unfair isnt that who determines it? Because there is no central ruling people body on here its up to the majority isnt it?
I suppose there is a spiritual level behind this too, but at that point im not sure about anything
I know that it does not justify being violent against violence, of course, thats rediculous. I want a different solution, because I do see a problem, and I am not the only one who sees it. I dont know what that peaceful solution is though, at this point.
I must commend your unpopular and poorly understood position. I mostly agree with you. I just stumbled into an old internet friend when I joined steemit. He has a long history with me of being kind, caring, and very intelligent. He is one who is upvoting haejin. He does it because he follows the advice and it has made him a lot of money. My friend earned his power here, like everybody else. For people to come in and demand that he NOT be allowed to upvote who he wants to whatever level he wants does NOT sit well with me.
Here is where I get a little fuzzy... If haejin is making all that money trading, why not "pay it forward" to his steemit family and voluntarily combine things into one or two posts a day. I am not recommending clamping down on HIS free speech either, I am just saying if he cares so much about making us all rich with his advice, why can't he care enough to stop tapping the reward pool so hard?
But yeah, nothing haejin ever posted cost me anything. EVERYTHING earned here is like Vegas, you make your post and you get what you get. There is no guaranteed minimum payment... or maximum.
End mini-rant... lol!
i agree with you fishyculture, it doesn't sit well with me that people want to limit rancho's upvoting. that's his to do with what he will. it also doesn't sit well with me that haejin doesn't upvote people, doesn't engage with the community, and makes many small posts a day. he is not receptive to community pressuring him. if people were like mountainjewel, you need to consolidate your posts and put so much pressure on me, and in the end i realized that it's kosher to post 1-3 times a day, i would back down. the fact that he isn't here to be a part of the community doesn't sit well with me and will not bend to consolidating posts. in the end though, even though i may not like what he is doing- i'm not sure it's fair to wage war on him. who decides who can post what-- if flagging is used like that- it's not a very safe community to be a part of.
@mountainjewel thats the sorta issues I am having too, im morally confused about this all lol. there are so many different viewpoints on the whole thing.
I havent been around for too long. probably just four months or less, but i do know that what Haejin is doing is wrong. let's call a spade a spade. sure, he's a good TA, peple follow his investment advices and make for themselves a fortune. They definitely would love him. who wouldnt? However, everyone knows Haejin has capitalized on this "love and support" shown to him, and despite knowing how the reward pool works, it hasn't stopped him from taking too much for a few lines he posts.
For Pete's sake take a look at those numbers, we can call it envy or whatnot, He just might have easily combined a few of these posts into a single one and no one would bother him, but no. he's decided to ignore the consequences and implications of his actions, and if this "war" is the only way to make haejin listen, then so be it.
It's the blockchain, let the users decide.
I think Steemit is like luck that way, who knows what your gunna get!aha @fishyculture thank you for making some sense! I do agree with you. I dont want people to force anything on anyone, and maybe haejin does give good advice (I know fuck all about crypto so I have no clue). Maybe we should send him little memos asking for him to change his ways a bit to make it more fair, that way everyone wins a little more. He can keep making rewards and so can everyone else.
I think people who want to use that term ought to go volunteer for 100 hours at facilities that work with and counsel those who are raped. What is happening on here is not rape and each time I see it referred as such, I am appalled. How inconsiderate to those who really suffered that horrific act.
This is nothing more than fear taking over @wwf.
People are scared....the banksters in all its forms took a toll on people.
I want to change my wording as well, its like, reward pool misuse rather then rape.
Abuse or call it what it is,,pure greed.
It is greed! Its hard not to be a little selfish sometimes, but not to the point of fucking over other people. Can you beat greed with kindness?
Well I can tell you that greed will not be beaten with more greed.
It is sad what is happening...few learn from wars yet we still glorify them.
Look at any country after a war, look at the destruction.
That is what STEEM will look like....nothing like pooping in your own living room.
haha pooping in your own living room? yes it is obvious that violence will not solve violence, war will not solve war, and greed will not solve greed. We must do something crazy and out of the box and solve with love. How the fuck thats going to solve our issues on planet Steem, I have no idea atm!
It's not combating greed with greed, it actually makes for more rewards to go around from what I've gathered. I think STEEM will be better off and disagree with your analogy. Whilst I agree passionately that war causes only destruction that's not how I view this mission. Isn't it somewhat contradictory to use that analogy after judging the 'rewardpoolrape' analogy?
THANK YOU. It pisses me off every time I see it.
Incorrect. This is about greed...the greed of one person meeting up with the greed of others.
This statement proves it...
Oh really. How many SP are created a week? 700K SP. What is the cap on that SP? There isnt one.
So how is there barely enough to go around?
I am sorry but all I see is a masterful job of justifying.
You want to believe that consensus is fairness.
The Nazis overwhelming believed that it was fair to send the Jews to the gas chamber.
As I mentioned in another comment, in the US, there was an entire region of the country who believed it was just to have blacks in separate schools, restaurants and the back of the bus. It was an overwhelming consensus for decades.
Right now, today, the majority of Israelis support the genocide the Palestinians on the west bank.
All these are examples of millions of people who agree as a consensus to atrocities. Yet you use it to justify fairness. I think human history is littered with examples how it is not true.
Hell even the majority of Americans believed OJ was guilty and would have put him away for life. The consensus was fry him. The journey who was tasked with that duty and watched all the evidence decided against it.
I will ignore the fact that most of the 700K on here are not active, it is about 1/10th.
Anyway, what are you going to do with your SP? If you want anything material at this point, you need to convert it to fiat. You ask the point about a cap (actually the lack of one)? What is STEEM was $10,000? Is that enough then? Or is it still not enough? How about $50K? Is that enough for you? Or do you need $100K?
And you claim it isnt about greed (which is fear)?
By the way, are you starving right now? Living on the street? Where do you not have enough?
ehh interesting things to think about. I am not so much into the technical workings of these things, but I am interested in researching it. Its really a sort of moral issue at this point I suppose. Are people trying to be like robin hood around here?
I dont really agree with fighting fire with fire. I dont get that analogy at all. I dont understand self policing very well either, since there are few examples in real life.
thats the question! How do we stop these things peacefully? We cannot force them to stop doing what they are doing, but it hurts everyone. So, what is the solution if it is not flags? We cannot kick them out or anything like that. We could try to convince the whale supporting them to stop doing that I suppose. Usually, I say kill em with kindness, but how on earth to do that I wonder....
One thing I trust in, is that the community of ingenous people on here will figure something out. And soon, I hope.
I spent my vote power in good faith, someone came along and de-valued my vote without my consent. It is theft from me, the upvoter.
hmmmm that makes a little more sense then it being theft from the poster.
The value of our vote is fluid until payout. You are implying that if I leave my waitress a $20 tip because I thought the service was good, you have a right to come take $10 of it because you thought the service was not that good? Now, if the markets tank and her $20 tip only buys her $10 worth of stuff tomorrow, that is not the same as taking part or all of my tip off the table.
the technical stuff makes my head spin
After what I saw 2 days ago I'm not certain that I believe that curation works. I accidentally came upon a rant post against a person misusing steemit for his own gain (I try to avoid these rant posts). The first reply was the person being ranted against. You can guess that his reply was an extreme howl about how his posts and replies were being flagged and how it wasn't going to work, he would prevail. He then upvoted his reply which was flagged. Even with the flag from the poster who had a 60-something reputation he still had a value of a nearly $25 payout on that one reply. I checked his stats. A generous 3/4 of his upvotes were for himself. I didn't have the stomach to see who his 'friends' were.
There's a lot of posters here on steemit who feel pretty good when we see our posts hit $20.