I know the pretty controversial topic of "paid upvote bots" has been discussed to death recently.
Blooming Chives...
I'll state for the record that I don't have anything philosophically or ethically against upvote bots; the issue seems to mostly be that they are broadly misused for self-promoting what we might call rather "sketchy" low quality content.
Some question whether that's even a problem... after all, we have a choice of not looking at the "trending" or "hot" feeds where this dodgy "stuff" ends up.
And since we believe in "freedom" here, shouldn't people have the right to promote their own posts, if they have the money available to do so? Regardless of whether it's financially profitable, or not?
Agreed, but it Misses Part of the Point...
Passenger ferry landing near where I lived in Denmark
I'm inclined to agree with the above, except for one small detail:
If you're a prospective new user, or simply not logged in, the default landing page you see when you end up at steemit.com is the "trending" feed. Just try it. Open Steemit in a different browser you're not logged in from; that's a newcomer's first impression of our community.
So-- in other words-- the "trending" feed is Steemit's "calling card" for potential new members... so we could argue that if there's a lot of garbage in trending it's not a very attractive reflection of the community to be sending to the world.
But again, not really what I want to discuss here.
Do You TRULY Believe in "Pay It Forward?"
In all of this uproar, I'm surprised how little mention there has been of the basic premise of Steemit as a sort of "gift economy," loosely based on the "Pay It Forward" principle.
Red Admiral butterfly
I mean, that's what we DO here, right? We upvote content we like; we give people a sort of "tip" or reward for creating something we feel is worthwhile.
Meanwhile, we talk a lot about the "poor starving minnows" who struggle to be seen, and only have tiny amounts of upvote power.
Heck, I've been here for a long time, and at best I can send about $1.25 someone's way.
But why not do THIS: If you have a few SBD in your account and you really DO care about highlighting excellent content-- especially by newcomers-- why not buy them a larger upvote than you can leave, otherwise?
A $5.00 or $10.00 vote here and there may be precisely what a promising newcomer needs to see to make them dig in for the long haul, rather than become discouraged.
Danish Farm house
I'm not saying this is the "definitive solution" to anything... BUT consider this: If even HALF the bids on upvote bots were used by manual curators to reward excellent content, it might significantly change the landscape of what gets rewarded and what doesn't. And if HALF those bidbot votes were bids for quality content, it would make the SELF-upvoting allure that much less attractive and profitable.
Yes, I'm an idealist. But I'm also an old sales/marketing geek.
I recognize many might think "Yeah, but I would get nothing BACK from that, and it will COST me!"
On the surface, yes. It's counts on a level of altruism and selflessness.
Deeper down? It serves to build relationships. And it works a little like those "affinity programs" a lot of businesses have. You don't get "special benefits" out of the goodness of any business' heart, you get them because there's ultimately a payoff. People go back to keep getting their bonus points.
In this case, if you are generous with such upvotes, it's a good bet people will start feeling generous back towards you.
What do YOU think? Is simply changing how people USE upvote bots a potential PART of a solution, here? Do you think active curators are generous enough to be part of such a movement? Do you have an issue with bidbots, as they currently exist? Leave a comment-- share your experiences-- be part of the conversation!
Animated banner created by @zord189
(As usual, all text and images by the author, unless otherwise credited. This is original content, created expressly for Steemit)
Created at 180116 13:36 PST
Thank you @denmarkguy for the great post. I totally agree. You know what's weird ?? Well, earlier in the morning I was taking my shower and something started running through my mind. I was thinking how damn cool it will be when I do get a tremendous amount of Sp ( I will. just a matter of when) well how cool it will be to already do what I love doing. And that is just going thru my feed and also introduceyourself under 'New' and look for people who are providing engaging content but are relatively new and being capable of giving them an Upvote of $10, $20, or even $100.
To me that's freaking exciting. Just a huge adrenalin rush !!
And NOT in the sense that I'm trying to say "oh everybody look at me how righteous and generous Iam" . No, but just the fact that I can give an Upvote that I know it can literally make someone's day or even change their lives( how they view Steemit) is just very enriching to me :)
What's really cool about your comment @robertandrew is that it is the embodiment of "pat it forward."
I often find myself wishing that I had not had to power down in the fall due to some unexpected expenses, at a time when the price of Steem was low... otherwise I would have had 10K+ SP now, and the ability to give people $4 votes. Like you said, the idea of being able to help and encourage people like that is very appealing. The "Gift Economy" at work.
And hence my suggestion to also use these bot services to reward other people. Because making someone else's day is far better than sticking a few dollars in my own pocket.
Thank you !! Yeah, Iam still learning about the Bots. And ,yes , that will be nice to utilize that for others. Like finding those hidden gems who do not have any resources at all to buy Steem right off the bat. And give them a "bump". I can see where it really can benefit the whole community here. Get people motivated to stay once they see the possibilities and add value as well as helping others!
I 100% agree with you, and as a minnow, everyone can feel free to try this experiment out on me.
Lol... Joking aside, I think that we often do underestimate generousity's reciprocal effect. When we help others, they're more inclined to help us. Pretty simple.
We see it in the comments section all the time. For example, if I comment on a post, and get a big upvote from the author, I may be more apt to come back. I may not even consciously think this, but people respond to that generous gesture.
Why would vote bots used to support little Steemians be much different? People would appreciate the support, and be apt to support you back.
That's my two cents.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Chris.
I think some of this really goes back to the fundamentals of community building. People here seem to get very very wrapped up in "the money" and then forget the underlying purpose for why they are here. Communities happen because people derive some sort of mutual benefit from their association.
So if I give you something, and you give me something, we support the integrity of the community. But if I use those same resources to just give myself something... then there actually IS no "community" there, just me in my own echo chamber.
Ironically, the mere fact that there is so much discussion about this very topic suggest we DO have a very strong community... or people simply wouldn't care.
While that be great if they were only used that way people will just use alt accounts to do it. I’ve seen a couple people claim to hate them but then you notice they are sending money to another account and that account is paying for the upvotes lol. Yep nice way for them to stay to their convictions!
That would be like me buying a second account and following everyone on the platform just so I can resteem all my blogs on that account trying cash in on f4f. Which come to think of it I’m sure many do that…
I'd guess that pretty much any system is going to have users and abusers, as well as legit people. The suggestion here was more for the legit curators to step up and buy a few votes to go to authentically deserving content. In doing so, it would remove that voting power from UN-worthy posts, whether self-upvotes, or someone doing the circle jerk thing with several accounts of their own.
I’m just wondering how many of them are going take a massive loss from using them past few days since the markets are taking a massive dump right now. I assume the upvotes included SBD being so overpriced.
I just wish they would limit how many times a day their serves would upvote the same account. Least force people who want to abuse things to go out and get a few accounts to keep doing what they are doing. Make it less rewarding by having less people all following just one account doing it and them losing out on natural votes that are their to make sure they turn a profit from spending so much.
Some people make no sense at all.
The other day, I saw someone bought their way into the "trending" feed by send 100 SDB to no fewer than six upvote service for a single post. Which, quite clearly, gave him less than $600 in total upvotes, just so he could publicly grind his personal axe over some issue.
A lot of people just don't make any sense.
Perhaps another solution could be for the most famous and bigger bots to create a curation group, in which a group of curators decide which user will receive a free upvote daily.
In fact, if every bot did this I bet most people who are against bots would reconsider their opinion on this subject.
Well, I know that @appreciator already does this-- it (its owner) works with the Steemit Bloggers group (which I happen to belong to) to reward exceptional content as decided on by members of the group, as a whole.
That’s right I am also on that discord!
100% upvoted sir.thanks for sharing
Thank you.
wellcome
good topic. ♥♥ following you
You're funny! You upvote your own comment, but not the post!
wow. what a photoshoot it is. thanks forsharing
As steemit grows, and especially as more people from poor countries join, I'm really not sure how it will go.
I am doing my own experiment on the upvote bot thing.
I personally don't want to use upvote bots, (and which I tried for a short time). I have now stopped doing so on my own posts.
On the other account, one I share with my girlfriend - she has absolutely zero ethical moral standpoint, and uses them/gets me to use them.... And this raises a question...
She see's steemit differently from me. Purely economic reasons. And I totally understand.
For people in the third world, bagging $10 a day is the difference between going hungry and eating, so there can be no real moral argument for not doing so, if this is the case...
Having food to eat today makes a difference, and if an upvote bots get you nearer to that goal...the long term benefit and growth of steemit is secondary....
And I would also imagine that the third world 'market' will be a growing one...
Personally, I take the long term view...
Because of my personal situation I see the conflicting, but equally valid perspectives.
The answer (if there is one),..... I really don't know....
Not very inspirational I'm afraid, but just though I'd put in my two pennies worth...
Most of them are already not profitable-- the typical net yield is currently about -10-15% relative to what people are paying for the votes. Of course, there are still hopefully-greedy people who keep paying for them.
Seems to me those megawhales with all the SP would do better to delegate (lease) their SP to active manual curators who use that SP to upvote high quality content.
I have just backed away from even trying to understand Bernie's motivations... which seem to inevitably involve a lot of public grandstanding.