We've started checks (activity, ... see guidelines below) on the idle game accounts, in the interest of all users.
The goal is to weed out cheaters, who take away e.g. the GRCs newbies could need.
What's your opinion on this topic ?
The poll (title: "Should we heavily moderate IRPG access ?") has ended, see here
(ca. twice as many votes SUPPORTing the poll, see graph below).
See also this thread.
You can vote like this:
Windows users:
- If your wallet is encrypted, fully unlock the wallet (not just for 'staking only').
- Click "Advanced", then click "Voting" to launch the voting menu.
- Right-click on "Should we heavily moderate IRPG access ?"
- Click "vote".
Linux users:
QT Wallet/daemon:
- Fully unlock your wallet.
- Navigate to the Debug Console (Help - Debug Window - Console (tab) )
- Enter one of the following commands:
- Vote to moderate: execute vote should_we_heavily_moderate_irpg_access? Yes
- Vote against: execute vote vote should_we_heavily_moderate_irpg_access? No
- Abstain: execute vote vote should_we_heavily_moderate_irpg_access? Abstain
I have been asked to explain why users should vote on this poll, and I hope you will take the time to consider my viewpoint.
One of the main issues with new users getting into Gridcoin is that they need a starting balance to begin staking. Often this hurdle is the toughest part for new users, and as a result many turn to the pool, causing headaches for themselves later.
To me the IRPG channel was an easy way to get the 10 or so GRC I needed to send my first beacon. Sure, there's a faucet, but it pays out low amounts irregularly. The IRPG, by contrast, is a fun and reliable way for newbies to earn their starting coins.
Today a certain user who I will not name unilaterally took control of the IRPG channel and began handing out bans to users he considered to be cheating or inactive. I do not oppose banning blatant cheaters. If a user registers multiple accounts in the IRPG, by all means, they should be punished. My issue lies with the bans and kicks that were handed out to "inactive" users.
The whole idea of the IRPG is to idle (it's in the name!). Imposing a vague rule such as "users must be active in the #gridcoin channel" is very bad and frankly, goes against the whole notion of the IRPG. I will quote from the IRPG's website description (http://tew.sg/idlerpg/):
"The Gridcoin (cryptocurrency that rewards BOINC participation) Idle RPG is just what it sounds like: an RPG in which the players idle. In addition to merely gaining levels, players can find items and battle other players. However, this is all done for you; you just idle. There are no set classes; you can name your character anything you like, and have its class be anything you like, as well.
Oh, and guess what? You can be rewarded with Gridcoins too just for doing absolutely NOTHING!"
Does that sound like it needs active users? And by the way, what is an "active" user? Handing out bans to people just because they log on when you are sleeping is wrong and has occurred today. I ask as a member of this philanthropic and growing community; please vote for the newbies. Vote for the little guy. There needs to be a rigid rule defined, not some vague requirement that is up to an OP to decide. Demand that bans are explained. Demand that OPs are held accountable. Vote no on this poll!
I am new to Gridcoin and I did not know about IRPG so thank you. Also, I had already done just what you said and joined a pool. Why does a pool cause headaches down the line?
Using the pool doesn't cause significant headaches down the road, it requires simply moving from pool -> Solo within the BOINC client.
Should I stay in the pool as a beginner?
It depends, if you have enough coins to stake regularly then you could go solo. There's far less maintenance with using the pool but payouts can be weeks apart..
Cool. For now I think I will stick with the pool until I learn more. I am on mac and it has been a nightmare to get everything setup. I am still downloading the block because even snapshot doesn't work right.
Yes.
Being 'active' on the other channel is no basis. It never was a condition. IRPG is an idling game and should remain such.
'Cheaters' should be punished. But before that it should be established that what constitutes cheating.
Having no presence on other IRC channels is an indicator that the account is a duplicate (cheater).
Duplicate of what?
See, what I mean is that guidelines should have been made before the action. If it has been agreed on that you need to be active on the other channel than it's OK to take action. But that never happened. There were no rules.
The poll is still on but I see people are still getting kicked and banned. At one side it's being asked whether or not to do something and on the other side bans are continuously handed out.
What is the basis of this action? What is the point of this vote than?
Even if it is being done with good intentions, the implementation is very poor. Why to do something in such a way that it raises questions?
All action must cease till the vote ends and rules are uploaded on the IRPG site.
Yup, I agree.
When I go to the Gridcoin irc channel, I have no other presence on irc. I find it uninteresting and antiquated. Just my 2 small units of currency here.
Fair enough, we've also got slack/reddit/steemit/cryptocointalk/twitter if you don't like IRC.
I'm aware of, and use, the other methods of interacting with the coin-holding public. Thanks, though.
I can only say very well put and defined.
Good post.
I will vote NO.
I'm personally abstaining from this poll. Rain siphoning is less important to me than the scammers/impersonators on IRC (that've been seemingly quiet the last couple months..).
I do however acknowledge that multiple accounts on IRPG isn't cool, nor is only being a member of #gridcoin-irpg, ignoring the #gridcoin channel.
Please (all parties) remain civil & don't get upset at one another, we're all pals here!
So, this is a draft of the proposed guidelines (and we will add below some of the feedback we got already, please also share your feedback):
I'm not a fan of this idea, it'd hand down a time punishment to legit IRPG users.
Same here, have pointed out it would need rules and bot should kick/ban if they don´t follow it.
That list would not work.
I also don't agree with #5.
I think we should delve down deeper into what those options mean. For example, how often does a person have to log into another channel to prove they're human before they get kicked/banned? How is that going to be monitored? I was talking with pep the other day, and one of the ideas that came up was to send a PM to the user saying they're going to get kicked, and then wait x amount of time for a reply. If they don't reply, kick the user. It saves people from having to join other channels if they don't want to, and also verifies it's an active user.
I have noticed that since you posted this, other nicks have been kicked/banned from IRPG.
I can only suppose that this was sanctioned as they were proven bots or just inactive on the other channels.
I voted yes. Seeing as the irpg is by donation only, I can only see someone that is cheating the system being upset with banning possible bot accounts.
Playing "people's champion" is an obvious ploy, and I hope the members of the community can see through this vain attempt at grandstanding.
Erkan and I have spent a few hours drafting up a proposal for conditions to stop the rampant cheating, and have run it by anyone that seems interested. He has posted the draft in this thread, and it is welcome to community input.
This was not a personal attack. I was trying to do a good thing, and I have done everything I can to make good on the people that were banned.
Fun fact: barton26 has previously requested that foundation funds be diverted to fund the irpg as a "faucet". :D
Isn't it a faucet?
nope.
this is: http://faucet.gridcoin.asia/
I am aware of it, thanks. I tried logging in to check out the RPG, and it seems you kicked me. Does everyone just get automatically kicked now, and that's the 'moderation'?
No. That would be thoughtless. There is most definitely a method to the kicks/bans... if you got caught up in it unfairly, obviously I apologize. Mistakes happen. Let's all try to focus up, and get back to good Gridcoin things again. This has been going on for weeks now. lol
I apologize to all the legitimate players for any past and future bumps in the road, but I think we've got a good system worked out now. Stay tuned.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't even be having this conversation... but there's always somebody that takes more than their share. <3
Wondering if you would mind bringing some clarity to your remark:
'Playing "people's champion" is an obvious ploy, and I hope the members of the community can see through this vain attempt at grandstanding.'
I read it that you were 'playing "people's champion" and yes I agree it is a somewhat obvious ploy but I don't see it as a vain attempt at grandstanding just a bit hasty and slightly misguided.
I do think you were very successful at bringing attention to yourself although it would seem to have become negative attention as a result of a lack of fore thought.
Oh and yes I did hear barton26 suggest that maybe foundation funds could be utilised for the GRCidle IRPG so that it did not necessitate benevolent funding by some of the active users from #gridcoin including himself.
Nice try at spinning the narrative. I'm half-convinced barton26 is jamezz now... lol. It just makes too much sense.
For the record Mercosity, you and jamezz pretending to be other people on IRC and in mumble, trying to break testnet, seeding dissent like professional propaganda artists.... seriously, I don't understand how you live with yourself. You have done nothing to show that you want to be a part of this community for about a month now... I'd say a good month, you and jamezz have been plotting in secret, thinking you're cool. Everybody is watching you, and it's sad.
You can get all the VPN's and Docker containers you want. You still know you're a liar, and that's the important thing, bud. <3
"Nice try at spinning the narrative. I'm half-convinced barton26 is jamezz now... lol. It just makes too much sense."
Do not falsely accuse me of things we both know are not true on a public forum about a vote. This is not a smear campaign. If you have personal problems with me, talk to me about it on the irc or through a private message.
The only way to make rino believe you're not another user is to jump into mumble.
I now have Mumble access. If anyone wishes to speak with me, just let me know on irc.
Attempting to break testnet is the point of testnet though, I've broken testnet in the past & it was a net benefit for the production client.
You are attempting to gather information to help the coin. I can't assume the same for others.
The poll finished with around twice as many Yes votes.
Total of 51 votes with a weight of 6644913.
I have nothing against making sure that people do not cheat. I have an issue with banning/kicking people on random because someone thinks it's justified without any additional rules or information however.
I sometimes gets disconnected from the IRC server, and when it does connect again I have to manually identify myself again resulting in that if I'm not on the computer I will only rejoin the channels that are not protected and #Gridcoin is a protected channel whilst #Gridcoin-irpg is not.
I usually end up with just being in one channel, the #Gridcoin-irpg.
I hope you guys find a good way of making the channel clean and rid of potential cheaters, just make sure you don't piss people of making them leave the whole community in the process. Maybe it's better to have a few tiny cheaters than pissing people off, it's not a huge amount of money we talk about in the IRPG game anyway.
I do agree that the proposed random kick element is not a good idea.
No on random kicks. I can agree to that. It was kind of more of an idea to introduce fun...
I highly doubt anybody would leave the Gridcoin community for being kicked from the IRPG, lol... if so, they probably aren't there for the right reasons anyway.
Isn't the age limit for World Community Grid 18 years old? :P