Have you ever wondered why politics is so universally despised?
"No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."
- St. Paul
A note to my anarchist friends:
Though I write this article from my perspective as a follower of Jesus and student of the bible, reading it may well help you better understand the antipathy you may feel towards "organized religion." As you will see, I share those feelings.
I begin this article with a bold thesis.
Human government, as we know it, is Satanic.
I will further assert that the church has been co-opted by the devil himself to unjustifiably support human government.
Lucifer, Messenger of Light ~ Image courtesy of Moise Marian
I can imagine the objections now.
"How can you say that?"
I'm sure that if you grew up in a typical church, you are shaking your head, almost ready to click "close" and move on to the next article.
You've no doubt from childhood had pounded into your head statements like the following, cobbled together from a few bible passages taken out of context.
"Governments are God's agents to maintain order in the world. While particular leaders may not be godly, God put them in place, and you must therefore obey them."
I will surely be bombarded with those few and much misused passages in the comments below.
But, what does the preponderance of scripture say? What is the overarching biblical story of history, and what is the origin of and rationale behind human government?
After a lifetime of being misled, I have come to a clear understanding of the biblical teaching on human government.
I no longer subscribe to "the prevailing view."
Humanly speaking, I have become an anarchist. This quite simply means that I acknowledge no mere human being as having any right to rule over me.
Nor do I accept any human organization as having legitimate authority over me. The reason for this is the clear connection I see between the foundation and practice of government as we know it, and the origin of evil.
Biblical theologians are in general agreement
that it was Lucifer's rebellion that originally brought evil into existence.
"But you said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’"
- Isaiah 14:13-14
For the full picture, please read the entire chapter 14 of Isaiah. In it you will find that these words are directed to "the king of Babylon," taunting him.
Babylon in scripture is a type or figure, an analogy if you will, of human government as led and directed by Satan, A.K.A. Lucifer. What was Lucifer's fault, what brought sin into the universe?
It was seeking to exalt himself above God Almighty. It was arrogating to himself the power and authority that belong to God alone.
Because all humans are made in God's image,
we are on a level playing field. None of us has any right to rule over his fellow man, or to coerce him to do our will. No aggregate collection of humans, whether or not they may be called "government," have that right. Our Creator/God is the only one with such an inherent right.
In Psalm 2, we see God ridiculing human governments:
"He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord scoffs at them."
- Psalm 2:4
Once again, the entire Psalm is instructive, worth reading in its entirety. The evil of human government is again confirmed in Acts chapter 4, where Psalm 2 is referenced.
That God is the only one with an inherent right to rule is also consistent with what Jesus said before he departed for his throne in heaven.
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “ All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.”"
- Matthew 28:18 (emphasis added)
How much authority?
ALL of it.
Where is that authority to be exercised?
In heaven AND on earth.
It is certainly true that God raises up and deposes human leaders. The bible is very clear, however, that such elevation when it happens is absolutely not a stamp of moral approval.
Those in the church complicit with human governments and their aims have intentionally blurred the distinction between God's moral will and His sovereign will.
God raises up and deposes human leaders.
White House photo by David Bohrer.
God in His infinite wisdom has permitted human government to exist for a time, and has allowed it power to act. This does not mean that the actions of government are moral. To the contrary, God condemns and will judge every wicked act.
In every scriptural instance where human government overreaches,
it is condemned for such an action. As those oppressed, we may be counseled to be patient, but we never need approve of or participate in such evil.
This can be seen very clearly when Jesus stood before Pilate.
"So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”"
- John 19:10-11
Is Jesus here speaking of God's moral will or his sovereign will? It was clearly not God's moral will that Jesus be crucified. Jesus was the innocent Lamb of God. Pilate had no moral authority to execute Jesus, but he had sovereignly granted power.
Likewise, human government has no moral authority to rule us; only temporarily granted, sovereignly permitted, raw power to abuse us and make our lives miserable. God makes no moral demand of us to submit to this abuse.
Human rule over humans is destined for extinction.
From God's pronouncement to the serpent, to Jacob's pronouncement of Shiloh, to David's portrayal of God's laughter, to Daniel's interpretation of the stone and the statue, to Jesus declaration of the kingdom:
One thing is crystal clear.
Man was never intended to rule his fellow man.
There is one plain, central message.
God raises up and deposes human leaders.
White House photo by Joyce N. Bogosian.
God intends to supplant the rule of man.
Immediately following the seminal events in the garden, God said this to Satan:
"I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”"
- Genesis 3:15
On his deathbed, Jacob prophesied the coming King.
"The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes,
And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples."
- Genesis 49:10
Daniel interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's vision of the stone thusly:
"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”"
- Daniel 2:44-45
That Satan is behind human government was shown in his interaction with Jesus.
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
“‘You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.’”"
- Matthew 4:8-10
Just as Jesus resisted Satan and his dominion, we are admonished by the Apostle Paul to resist.
"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm."
- Ephesians 6:10-13
God has sent his King. ~ Image courtesy of Pablo
Jesus came proclaiming the arrival of that kingdom.
Why, then, does the church, and why do its leaders, regressively demand that the flock of God mindlessly submit to human rule?
God has established His Kingdom. He has sent his King, who is now enthroned at God's right hand.
Sadly, just as Jesus own rejected his kingship, the modern church persists in rejecting the kingdom of God. In its place, church leaders demand that the congregation effectively worship the state, giving up to it their tithes, handing the state their sons and daughters for war-making.
I call upon the church,
its leaders, and everyone in its membership to cease your worship of Luciferian human government. Stop attributing "worth" to a Satanic system that initiates force. Abandon worship of this evil beast that promulgates war, that oppresses your neighbor.
"But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”"
- II Timothy 2:19
It is past time to come out and be separate from human governments. Our citizenship is in heaven.
"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."
- Ephesians 5:11
Visit my Library Christianity Shelf for more theology.
Visit my Library Liberty Shelf for more on government.
~FIN~
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Statism is the most dangerous religion of all. I have One Master. Serving false idols is how we get the mess we have.
Thank you for the post. Very well articulated. It is a concept we need to discuss much more often.
Hello, friend @diggndeeper.com - Thank you for reading, and thanks for your thoughtful comment. I couldn't agree more.
You know, creatr, I truly do believe my citizenship is in heaven, but I think labelling anything Satanic, other than Satanism itself, invites a backlash. Governments are tolerated by God according to his permissive will - the same will that permits us to sin. But I certainly don't see my failings as Satanic - at least, I sincerely hope they aren't. Is church and church government Satanic? Again, I certainly hope it's not. For me, my ultimate authority rests in Jesus' blood and righteousness. I will not follow the dictates of any government or ruling body that goes contrary to God's commands. My country right or wrong up to a point, and I think I made clear what that point is.
A good post @creatr - one that's sure to stir the depths.
Hi John, Thanks for not pussyfooting around the issue, and for your cautionary response, as well as the analogy you've made...
Nevertheless, I'll stick by my guns, backlash or no, unless and until presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. While there may be something of a spectrum of "relative goodness/badness," I am not aware of any contemporary human governments that are not flawed at the most fundamental level - specifically, claiming a right (one which I recognize as belonging only to God) to coerce their "subjects" against their will. I see this as tantamount to claiming godhood. States certainly also demand worship, cleverly re-labeled as "your fair share."
There is a very fundamental "libertarian" or "voluntaryist" principle known as the Non-Aggression Principle. I believe that human society can and should be organized on a voluntary basis, and that the initiation of force is in all truth satanic. It has been disguised in all manner of high sounding speech, but I see through it.
I think that you would concede that (not speaking of you) there are humans who are outright enemies of God? Their agenda and "failings" are unquestionably demonic. They are sociopaths. I will certainly agree with you not to characterize your or my failings as "satanic." However, we both know of what pavement the road to hell consists. When we, by our ignorance, are coopted into supporting evil, may God spare us and clarify our vision!
As for the church, my article here is primarily about civil governments... and I have painted the complicity of the church with the broadest of strokes. However, it is a broad brush that, very sadly to me, covers the majority of churches and denominations that I have heard weigh in on the matter in sermon and in writing. The translators of scripture are also complicit. I have come to believe that human governments are the most likely candidates for filling the role of "The Beast" described in John's Revelation, and that typical churches have become "The False Prophet" that urges the people to worship that beast.
What else but worship can you call it when millions voluntarily give over the fruit of their lives' labor to a monster promulgating war, genocide, and suffering around the globe?
I think it's the broad brushstrokes that make me uneasy, creatr. Citing the translators of scripture for colluding with "the Beast" and churches urging their flock to worship it. Some governments have certainly verged on the demonic - I'm thinking Nazi Germany, for one. But I wonder if you would have supported Lincoln in the fight against the abolition of slavery? You see, I don't think it's that cut and dried--and I spent a lot of time in anti-cult and deliverance ministry. I respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree on some of these points, my friend.
I'm always glad and thankful to hear your thoughts, my friend. "One man's countenance sharpens another."
I would have supported abolition, but strongly opposed Lincoln on his mad anti-secessionist agenda. And I think that perhaps the primary reason you may see any clear difference between Nazi Germany and present day America is the blurring lens of modern day propaganda and the focusing effect of historic distance.
Thanks, my friend, for your kind and measured responses. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend."
Postscript...
Continuing to reflect on this, my now strongly held opinions are possibly at least in part because of the systematic abuse I have experienced throughout my lifetime at the hands of "the system."
Partly, it is the strong cognitive dissonance of being "schooled" to believe that I lived in "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave," only to discover such to be diametrically opposite of the true state of affairs when it came right down to governments dictating the course of my life.
I'm sure it is in part my "right-brain" mode of thought that makes me painfully sensitive to the slightest hint of oppression. There are probably many other factors..
Introspective much? Yep... Thanks, as usual, for making me think. ;)
I appreciate you, creatr, for being able to examine the basis of long-held opinions. That's why you're my friend - you are relentlessly in pursuit of truth. And I just have to admire that.
Thanks! :) :) :)
BTW, don't miss @canadian-coconut's recent article about un-schooling. That stuff really resonates with me! If I had only been unschooled! :O I would own the world by now... ;)
ha ha, will check :)
Hey Creatr, nice post. I think I'm almost where you are on this topic but I'm not sure that I'd say "governments are Satanic." By implication, that would mean all the people in government are Satanic and I really don't think that's the case. I think there are plenty of people in government who are good people with poor ideas, but that doesn't necessarily make them Satanic.
I see government as more of a concession on God's part, due to humans rejecting His rule. For example, Israel originally had no king, and when they asked for one, God gave it to them. He did say it was a rejection of Him, though. Similarly, it seems to me, the oft quoted Romans 13 is saying that God put governments in place in order to keep order. That's why in Psalm 2 God's upset: He expects the governments to keep the peace and enforce justice.
It's not His ideal, though. From the beginning God intended to be our king and humanity rejected Him. He created man as his imagers and told man to exercise dominion over the Earth. Man failed, but God didn't give up. Then Jesus came proclaiming "The Kingdom of God is at Hand." Now He sits at the right hand of the Father and He has all power and authority, but, as in Genesis He first told His Imagers (disciples) to spread the Kingdom throughout the earth. There will be a day when Jesus reigns here on Earth physically, but that day is future.
The thing is, we don't live in a spiritual vacuum. There are other powers at play, and they effect how the world works because God gave us and them free will. I'm referring to the Divine Council. If you read Psalm 82 you will see God charging the "sons of god" with duties we ascribe to human government.
I know I'm carrying on here, but what I'm getting at is that there are spiritual beings whom God has given some authority over humanity with the intent that they enforce justice. I think the Bible is pretty clear that these "sons of god" have free will like us, and some choose to rebel. These spiritual beings aren't likely IMO to waste time on individuals going about their everyday lives, but, instead they will concentrate their efforts on the humans who have positions of authority. Thus, any government, corporation, church, or any other large organization that exercises physical or spiritual control over men is susceptible to constant attention and meddling from these "principalities and powers." This is why we are encouraged to pray for these people.
One of the things Jesus came to do was to set us free. Well, we have to want to be free, first.
I really don't think all the people in governments are evil or Satanic, but they are wrestling with the fallen angels in a much more direct way than the rest of us. (some are probably satanic, though) Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure we're stuck with this system until Jesus comes back, but, I'll be there backing it up if there is a legit push for dissolution of the Federal Government.
Sorry to take up so much space, but Christian anarchy always gets me excited.
Are you saying that something done by God is immoral then?
In the larger sense, you are talking that Satan brought evil into this world, but were not Satan's actions part of God's plan? So in your model everything is still from God, including Satan, and including morally corrupt human governments and including sin itself. Is that not the case? If that is the case, aren't you doing what Satan supposedly did, rebelling against the will of God. If God chose you to do what you are doing, didn't he chose everybody that is evil to be doing that evil as part of his perfect plan?
I know you are going to say that God doesn't owe me an explanation, but I think if you want to make your point convincing, all those questions are things you have to somehow address. And if you don't, the question of what God actually expects from you and what your role is and how you should view government in my humble opinion remains open.
Not at all. The moral responsibility is that of the actors themselves. In the case of "governments," that would be every individual who harms his neighbor, either directly or through indirect support of those who cary out "government mandates."
Are you a moral person, Dave? Do you assign credit to God, or primordial soup, or "chance," or whatever you may believe your point of origin is (your parents?), for the good that you do?
If you were to murder someone, who would be to blame?
Do you believe morality exists at all?
I try to be. Of course I don't assign credit to God, because I don't believe a god exists. I don't believe my origin has a plan for me, while I have a sense that you believe that God has a plan for us all. Like him calling on you to share your faith. You seem to give God credit for some of your and other people's choices while not for others. If everything is part of his plan, doesn't that include all the people and organizations that make immoral choices? I just have trouble understanding how you make the distinction between the two, where you draw the line between the two and how can they both exists simultaneously.
My question regarding this specific thing you said was if you can call raising up a leader that you know would be immoral in advance as a moral act. I personally don't see it as a moral act because you are willfully causing harm to a large number of people.
Under a world view in which everything is God's plan, I would argue that God should take at least part of the blame. I'm not saying this because I think it really makes sense, I'm saying it to point out the contradiction of a perfect, just, all-knowing and all-powerful God choosing to create a universe in which suffering and immorality exists while somehow being shielded from any blame for the consequences of this actions and choices. Keep in mind, I'm not judging God, I'm highlighting a logical impossibility of both him being perfectly good while willfully causing suffering. In fact, the problem of evil is one of the reasons I find the idea of a god that is all-powerful and just while at the same time having created this flawed world unreasonable.
Depends on what you mean by exists actually. I believe that morality is a concept that we have and that we as a social species are inclined to have based on empathy and valuing well-being. But morality is subject to a value judgment and if you mean absolute morality with your question, then no, I don't believe absolute morality exists. In my opinion morality is clearly subjective as people might disagree if certain types or behaviors are moral and humanity's understanding of what is moral has evolved over time. For instance, I personally think that killing animals for food if you have other options to actually be immoral, but the majority of humanity seems to still disagree. The fact that opinions differ shows us that this concept of ours is subjective as we have no other way to establish what is moral besides opinion and individual value judgment.
As usual, excellent in content and presentation!
One comment :
I think we may say that the death of Jesus at the hands of men and the entire salvific economy of God's actions in creation and history is within His moral will.
Likewise, it is also within God's moral will that no particular human being commit murder, especially that of an innocent.
The apparent contradiction is due to us and not due to Him.
God's foreknowledge and sovereign ordering of human evil enables Him to achieve His moral will in salvation in spite of and, in fact, utilizing the moral evil of men -- this is the mystery of His grace and providence in operation, redeeming even our darkest acts for His good purposes.
Hey, Brother,
Thank you for reading, and for your thoughtful response. It may take me a while to think through what you've said...
Assuming you understand my intent, how might you more correctly reword my sentence? Would this be accurate?:
Do you agree with my subsequent statement?:
Thanks for your insights.
Thts an interesting article there, but really, religious doctrines are a whole load of bull.
Thanks for your visit and comment.
This is a very good post and i hope this can spread. The leaders and people in government today already sold their souls to the devil and care less about bringing positivity into the world. The worst part as you have mentioned is that even some churches and their leaders have so much integrated themselves into these evil acts just for worldly gains, and are ready to support these evil doers. I am not surprised anyway, everything the bible mentioned once we are getting close to the end are already being displayed in our societies today. May God help us all! Upvoting and Resteeming right away!
Hello, @tosmartak,
Thank you for reading, and for your thoughtful comments.
One of the most serious problems that continues to hide the truth is that many modern bible translations have an agenda to promote human government. Certain key passages have been intentionally mistranslated.
This is why it is important that people read the entire bible and see the overall view of human government as an evil force.
Thank you for the Re-Steem. ;)
You are welcome. You are very right @creatr ... the english in modern bibles today have been so revised and extremely simplified disallowing readers to even understand the deeper meanings. One of the resons I still make use of my King James anyway. Nonetheless, even some so called men of God today still ends up finding a way to change the context of a bible passage to suit how they want it most especially in certain ocassions, related to politics and gullible followers end up falling for it. Well, the bible made it glaring; "know the truth and the truth shall set you free" "know what you believe and hold on tight to it"... That is the only way not to fall into the pranks of some of these businessmen calling themselves pastors today.
God will give us strenght just don't loose faith!
Thank you.
I don't believe most politicians actually buy into the whole god and satan business... Not everything or everyone in this world is influenced by religion, thankfully. I think some people just like to apply their believes to anything they see in an attempt to explain why things are the way they are.
Thanks, @thatsweeneyguy, I appreciate your visit here, and that you took the time to weigh in with your opinion.
I can understand where you're coming from, and I agree that as humans we often struggle to find patterns and reasons for the puzzling things that we observe.
However, I hope you can also see that humans are vastly influenced by "propaganda," and by ideas that are "picked up" simply by living in a certain area, watching news programs and other media, and being surrounded by other people.
Some of the evil that governments bring about seems to me to transcend simplistic explanation. And in my case you are correct; I believe that the bible presents an accurate view of the world, and it attributes the darkness in the world to the activity of evil creatures and of the human beings that worship them.
Thanks again for your visit!
First off, great post, you had my attention the entire article. I do have a question, and something for you to read.
My question is, are you familiar with two kingdom theology? If not, there is an article below from a fellow Californian named Michael Horton. A short quote is included here to peak your interest. :)
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/tale-two-kingdoms/
Thanks, Lydon.
Yes, I have been familiar with that concept for a very long time, and at one time subscribed to it. However, I've come to reject it as fundamentally flawed. The two kingdoms are (to me) clearly at enmity with one another. I am a citizen of the kingdom of God:
The variance is as old as the history of the world. "Has God said....?" asks Satan.
Hmmm... Has God given us two great commandments? First, love God with our entire being. Second, love our neighbor as ourselves. To align ourselves with human government as presently constituted requires us to violate both commandments in many ways that have been obfuscated by misrepresentation of certain passages of scripture and by glossing over or ignoring others. I've written about a number of these specific issues here on Steemit already, and plan (God willing) to write about more.
We have been duped into believing that human government has some supernatural authority that it does not truly possess and which has not been delegated to it.
Thanks for bringing up the "two kingdom" theory, but, Do you have any particular comments or response to the points I've tried to bring out in my article?
Can any human or group of humans make a convincing case for authority to rule other humans by force?
Are not human governments arrogating to themselves the prerogatives of God when they claim "divine right" to wield such force against their "citizens?"
Can we claim to truly love our neighbor while simultaneously supporting the initiation of force against them?
Has God not sent his king, and told us that he is now enthroned?
Does Jesus' claim to all authority in all realms leave any room for other claimants?
Finally, may I ask your opinion regarding voluntaryism and the non-aggression principle?
OK, so, for you to answer all my intrusive questions would take several articles of your own... I'm patient! :D
Thanks, friend, for your kind interaction. Feel free to pick and chose whatever, if anything, you care to respond to in my diatribes... And thanks for your frequent support and encouragement! ;)
Hello my friend!
I've been reading through your library for a question that is on my mind.
You superbly laid out how "governing authorities" is a stretch of a translation in your Romans 13:1 article.
The question I am having trouble with is the divine authority that Paul talks about in the following verses.
Is there an article I have missed that you discuss this further?
Hi, Lydon!,
Yeah, the article you're missing is the one I need to "get a round tuit" and write... ;)
Some of it is actually scattered among dozens of other articles.
Some of it is on other websites (not to be mentioned, so as to maintain my "pseudonymity").
God willing, I will eventually get it written. It will most likely become a series of articles because it is probably too short to lay out in a single article.
Thanks for reminding me of your interest in this. It is a really important topic! ;) When I do get to it, I'll "ping" you for sure... ;)
Well, I'll keep an ear open for that ping, and keep studying in the meantime. ;)
Haha, well then. I'm not sure why I expected a shorter answer. :D
Anarchy, and voluntaryism are a new study for me, within the last 6 months frankly. Steemit has been a nice library for me to engage with. That is not an excuse to say I am ingnorant and want no part of this, lol.
The two kingdom theory was my initial response to your post. I am wrestling with your thoughts and what I know of that theory. I'll write up a response here in a day or two to your non-intrusive (I welcome the feedback) questions.
May I just say I am enjoying this? Lol. Love you brother.
Thanks, brother... I feel the love, and reciprocate it, OK?
It took me most of a lifetime to arrive at my present theological/philosophical/apolitical position, so I guess I'll allow you a day or two. Maybe a week. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! :D :D :D
Lol, oh how generous. 😄
the tom hanks movie angels and demons is a true depiction of it
Perhaps, highly fictionalized.
However, FYI, I haven't trusted the "truth" behind Dan Brown's writing ever since reading "Digital Fortress."
In that novel, he leads the reader to believe that there are no unbreakable encryption methods. Because I know this to be patently false, I've become suspicious of his research.
Thanks for your comment.
Well-written brother. Anarchy is the way to go. Jesus was an anarchist too :]
Upvoted and RESTEEMED...
Thank you, very much!
I see that you have mad skills in Steemit coding. I have some questions for you. Most particularly and urgently, I would love to know if you have any insight into how it may be possible for me, as a content creator, to edit my own posts that are past a week old? I've written complaints about this many times:
Any thoughts or insights you may have would be greatly appreciated!
Human governments are satanic because they are not God centered or God based. They rule without the counsel or law of God. often a higher power is not even in their equation. Any man centered function is destined to fail. We need God to complete the biblical and spiritual equation. Without him we fail. He is perfect we are not. We are not above him so we must include him to reach our potential. governments will fail always. Count on it. Great post. Thanks for sharing. - Troy
Perhaps the most egregious crime of human government is the initiation of force. This violates the second greatest commandment, "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Thanks for commenting.
Thanks for sharing. I look forward to your posts and try to learn from your writings. I have a long way to go and think my forte is in commenting rather than posting at this point. I have a few new posts up out there. Perhaps you can give me some pointers. Again thanks for setting the example. - Troy
Very beautiful if inter-religion respect each other and always menjujung law of a country. Both Islamic and Christian. Because I do not think that every religion has ever taught hatred. Therefore we hope that this ruler can give beauty to be able to be our example. The post is very good, I like it.
Thank you for your visit and comment.
I must admit that I am not convinced.
The greatest evils ascribable to governance as we know it is not the administration itself but rather it is the degree of 'verticality' concerned.
The more vertical an organization is, the more alienated the grassroots are from the head. This applies to governments and big corporations alike (even religious institutions).
Where organizations are most vertical is where there exists the greatest potential for the legislation and normalization of evil - as 'the center' is occupied - and those who occupy 'the center' care not one bit about those who do not reside in 'the center'.
This is a big reason why various systems have "failed" (including systems that people are taught to expect to fail).
The cure is not 'no' governance but rather to strive for 'Horizontal' governance.
Horizontal. Localized. Personal. Inherently In-Touch.
The most fundamental unit of horizontal governance is... the family... but a modestly higher level of governance would be far more beneficial than not.
Hello, @pathforger, nice to meet you. I appreciate your comprehensive comment here.
I agree that the family is the absolute core of human society. I also see a place for somewhat larger spheres of voluntary cooperation, and I even can subscribe to the idea that "horizontal is better."
However, I must hasten to point out that we appear to still have a fundamental disagreement. Specifically this: I completely reject the idea of being ruled by the use of initiated force.
I do not accept the concept that any human or group of humans has any right to impose their will upon me and my family as long as I am not attempting to forcibly impose my will upon them.
Greetings @creatr, it is nice to meet you too. :c)
I likewise appreciate your comprehensive response.
I feel that we aren't in as much disagreement on the matter of rulership through initiated force as you may imagine.
To apply force with an aim of control is to seek to capitalize upon a fear-based mechanism.
Fear-based mechanisms are far more prevalent than many of us realize. Why do we not steal? Is it because of a commandment? Maybe so - but leaving aside the inadequate nature of following a rule because it is thus written - is it not true that many of us abide by it for the reason of fearing judgment?
One needn't experiment. Its been demonstrated countless times in history. The aftermath of disasters where police presence is stretched beyond its breaking point sees an exponential rise in looting and crime. A child is far more likely to 'take' something if s/he observes that nobody is watching.
My point being that we are raised to face a world of consequences - when we should be raised to face a world of responsibilities.
After all - it is through respect that even Anarchy doesn't tear at the seams - and it is the same respect that would optimally keep horizontal forms of governance running smoothly in service of rather than in imposition over a given society.
Of course, a failure to live up to any given responsibility is indicative of not being ready to reap the right associated.
Doing X irresponsibly? Revoke the right to X. Generally speaking. ^_~
Thanks for the added insight into your thinking.
One distinction that I make is that between God's law, and man's "law." The distinction between "laws" that are malum in se and malum prohibitum.
Speaking for myself, if at all, only in the case of malum prohibitum "laws." And the judgement I fear is the utterly unjust penalties imposed by an arrogant state. Human governments claim a right to make and enforce malum prohibitum law. I reject that claim entirely.
In the case of malum in se - true trespasses against God, natural law, and fellow man - regarding your comments about "no one is watching," I disagree. Only sociopaths, or those who have intentionally seared over their consciences, will respond as you describe without being plagued by guilt. And to me, anarchy is simply the absence of the pretense of a "right to rule." Good men need no rulers. We are quite capable of self governance.
As for the sociopathic looters and vandals, good men are also quite capable of banding together cooperatively to quell such responses to circumstance. We don't need "law enforcement" agencies with all their present perverse and self-serving incentives to do so. You might find this article I wrote about my personal experience with such perverse incentives to be somewhat of interest in this context, as well as the experiences of several people who responded to it:
Thank you also for the insight @creatr.
Your choosing to set apart the laws of God and the laws of man is fair enough. while one would expect that the latter is reflective of the former, the latter also services the consolidation of power (of itself).
I admit that I do not dwell too much upon whether the person who steals feels regret as s/he follows through with the act. Sociopathic tendencies are not required such as to behave differently in a situation where one does not believe there are consequences for one's actions.
And this applies to many who are taught to behave in a manner out of fear of consequences worldly or otherwise... which is not to be seen as a dig against a religion or God but rather a dig against the ways that such teachings are delivered (Roman Catholicism is very prevalent here).
The sad truth is that a significant portion, if not a majority, of those who seem upstanding under the scrutiny of law and "God" (again, a dig at the teachings, not God) will behave in a completely different manner if given a channel to do so (what those channels might be differ - whether such be operating in a dark alley far from interfering assistance, or confessing one's actions to a priest).
Yes, good women and men are capable of banding together to oppose negative banding in the event of a disaster - but might they not be more preoccupied with assisting the victims of such disaster? Think of a spaghetti western with a sheriff and bandits and a tornado that has just blown through town. Greater things may be afoot than the blacksmith getting looted.
Incidentally your story is quite eye-opening - and feeds my already anti-establishment-leaning inclinations. I do tend to prefer Reformation over Revolution however.
It's so nice to see a post like this
You pretty right !!!
Of course our governement are satanic...
This is what I have been saying for a long time
Literally control by the devil ...
For example, how can these people kill thousands of people solely for the sake of their financial or other interests?
it's good to see people open their eyes ...
@creatr @geemo-from-paris
the ruler of this world.Hello, @geemo-from-paris, nice to meet you. Thank you for visiting and reading my articles. Yes, I agree, most human governments are literally controlled by the devil. Jesus spoke of him as
I hope you will enjoy some of my other articles about governments and liberty. You can visit my Library by clicking on the GIF below:
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Wao I just have a look at your library ,
Great disposition , so clear , so pro ;)
Thanks i will take my time to check it out ;)@creatr
@geemo-from-paris
Thanks, friend! Enjoy!
And I'm happy to interact with you if you find things of interest in the library... ;)
For sure my ,
I do not even know where to start :p
Check my presentation post , to know who I am and to discover my universe, I prepare some sympathetic post ;)@creatr
https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@geemo-from-paris/hello-world-i-am-gee-let-me-introduce-myself-as-your-brand-new-crazy-french-friend-discovery-of-craziest-event-and-atypical
Peace , see you soon
@geemo-from-paris
Lucifer/Satan is the god of this world... God gave it to him as his kingdom. God's kingdom is forever... Like Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world."
Hi, Rich!
Yes, I agree that Lucifer/Satan is, or at least was, ruler of the planet. In fact, Jesus repeatedly spoke of the devil as "the ruler of this world."
However, Jesus also announced the Kingdom of God, and by his death and resurrection declared his own ultimate rulership of that kingdom. Scripture tells me that he is now seated at the right hand of the father, ruling, and that he will rule until he brings all enemies under his feet.
Thanks for your comments! ;)
I am greatly blessed to be on the winning side of this struggle. ;)
Me too... I cheated and read the end of the book- I know how it turns out!
A well-presented summation of what I've believed for years. I too will write an article with my observations on the highly edited Bible.
Thank you, Mark, for your visit, and for the good work you've begun here on Steemit. I've just had the pleasure of visiting your blog and sampling that. I look forward to hearing more from you and to interacting. :)
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Brilliant post! I wish I had time to comment more fully right now, but I'm not sure what I could add to it anyway, you've done such a thorough job in laying this all out so clearly!
Hello, friend @eyeofthestorm,
Thank you so much for your very encouraging comment. I appreciate it a lot.
I enjoyed learning more about how you are an "anarchist" and your views. While I'm not religious I do agree that human governments are evil. They benefit the rich and elite while harming those with little power like the poor. Throughout history you can see how power corrupts people and so many leaders focused on their own wants and greed over the needs of the people. Even though we have differing religious beliefs I do feel we have a lot in common in terms of how we think about the world.
Thanks, my friend, for your kind and thoughtful comments.
very interesting project run by a couple of authentic geniuses.In case you have not yet discovered it, I would encourage you to check out http://zeroaggressionproject.com which is a
I was reminded of them because, interestingly enough, one is a very active Christian, actually a preacher, and the other is not a believer at all. Yet, on the topic of government, they are very much in tune and write absolutely brilliant short articles (they call them "mental levers") that cut to the heart of the flaws in human government.
I appreciate your interaction. :D
(Romans 13:1-6 NIV) Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. {2} Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. {3} For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. {4} For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. {5} Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. {6} This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
nice post bro, up voted
This is a great grandfather *** Please follow us please and thank you ***
:\ - Sorry, I don't trade votes and follows. I vote for what I like, and follow what interests me, and I would encourage you to be a "Good Steemit Citizen" and do the same.
When I first became a Christian, I was hung-up on how satanic government was. After a bit of this, God gave me the following:
"For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." - Romans 13:4
If God puts you in subjection to a government, you serve God wholeheartedly knowing it is for your good and his will. The governments are evil beasts, but that does not mean you rebel, oppose, or engage in lawlessness. Even today, God can and does judge governments.
Our ministry group was given access by God to pray directly into things going on in Washington. I prayed something concerning Washington DC once, and within 1 week, a person was out of a job and the situation changed. Spiritually, all Christians are given authority higher than any world's government, so we keep our mouths shut unless we are praying out of love, and we serve God rather than blasting our yap about how evil everything is. It is all evil, that's why Christ came to save the world. He came to save the people in government's too, even people like Hillary and Obama.
One Christian I know was drug smuggling but also trying to be in ministry. The police eventually caught him. He prayed to Jesus about it, he wanted to not go to prison. Jesus told him he would go to prison, and that in prison, he would judge the state of Alabama. This guy was in for serious drug crimes and the government made an example of him, really he had no hope of ever getting out. But in prison, he served God, and would pray for healing and see miracles. Then God told him one day, "I am getting you out." He began telling others, and they thought he was crazy. Then one day, the entire prison system lost all their records on him. They no longer had any documents about what sentence he received, that he should be in prison, nothing. They told him because of this that they would have to release him. He is a free man even today, serving God. God is bigger than government.