Human animals aren't the only ones who have a comprehension of fairness built in. I had recently done a post on how babies can grasp concepts fairness and correlate it with sharing. Non-human animal minds are often compared to that of a child, and we can find fairness in the animal kingdom outside of the human animal.
Source: flickr
Ravens are recognized to be quite intelligent along with crows and magpies (all from the corvid family of birds). Researchers have recently found that ravens can remember people who trick them, lasting up to a period of at least two months. They tested if ravens are capable of understanding and remembering negative behaviors, from who they came from, if they respond to it, and how long this lasts for.
Seven ravens were trained to offer a bread treat they were given in exchange for the better treat of a chunk of cheese. But after the routine was adopted and well known by the ravens, the ravens would occasionally get cheated by human where they would not receive the better treat in return, instead the human eight both treats. Not all humans cheated the birds, and to additional birds watched what happened to the other birds but did not participate in the experiment.
Concluding tests of their memory was done after 2 and 30 days. Six of the seven birds that had first-hand experience in the experiment chose the fair human, with one choosing a neutral human who they didn't have fair or unfair experiences with. In the case of the neutral human, they gave the piece of bread back to the raven, then chose to give their piece of bread to a fair human they did have experience with.
After 30 days, seven of the nine birds chose a fair human, one chosen unfair human, and one a neutral human who also chose a fair human after being given the bread back. This means that all seven birds with first-hand experience significantly preferred fair over unfair people after 2 and 30 days.
Ravens can remember who was fair to them in an exchange, and they would prefer future reciprocal interactions with those that were fair and cooperative with them previously. But the birds that don't directly experience getting deceived from a fair exchange (as they only observe) don't have the same impact. The sample size was small, but the fair human was chosen significantly more often than chance, especially by the 7 who had first-hand experience and were directly affected who all chose the fair human.
I like to show that nonhuman animals share much in common with us human animals, and that there are basic psychological factors that come into play in life, especially social cooperative living.
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This reminds me of another experiment. This one to prove crows could hold a grudge:
A scientists went into a forest and began trapping, tacking and releasing 7-15 crows.
Him and his colleague took turns doing this while wearing identicsl masks, at 5 different locations.
Once released each crowd would "scold" the scientist and thereby gather a crowd of crows to drive him away.
Suffice to say, if the scientist, his colleague or anyone else goes into that forest or even near it wearing that mask, the crows go bananas.
Haha, good for them to remember that and keep them out. No one likes crazy birds coming after them. Thanks for sharing.
There's a good doc on this very subject.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of a crow or raven? When they blink it looks like the lens of a camera snapping a photo.
Basically, Crows are a candidate for next "accepted" Intelligent Species XD
Watching the beginning... They were lucky the crows didn't attack the shooters en masse XS
And I think the guy underestimates crows a bit... give them time and they'll be able to associate his presence with the presence of his hunting bird, possibly even which vehicle is his.
I once used a video about capuchins getting unequal payment in one of my classes. The monkeys would either get a sweet grape or a bland piece of cucumber if they give an experimenter a rock. If one capuchin would receive a cucumber while the other would receive a grape. The monkey that would receive the cucumber sees the other monkey receiving a grape and would get mad at the experimenter.
Although it's sad for the monkey, this video of the experiment is quite funny to watch. (not trying to hijack your post @krnel):
Yup, I've heard of that one too, and it seems so familiar because I think I had that included the cucumber-grape thing, if not then I read it before possibly in relation to the overjustification effect. Thanks for the valuable feedback ;)
I have heard that ravens are almost as smart as dolphins! For the size of their brain, that is pretty amazing. Additionally they have been shown in laboratory tests to be able to not only use tools, but be able to use tools to make tools! This shows associative reasoning only found in humans!
Nonhuman animals have much in common with us that people have long ignored. We don't live with them to know them for who they are as a selves.
Nice. Animals have a lot that we always prejudicially thought only we had in our hubris. Spending time with them shows us the reality of their lives as psychological selves.
Not trying to turn interesting science into fiction but i wonder if thats why on Game of Thrones the 3-eyed Raven seems to be regarded in the same vein as a wise old man and the use of crows instead of pigeons for sending messages.
Yes, in symbolism ravens are associated as messengers of the "gods", as associated with knowledge as well. They also symbolize time. In Kemetian Ancient Egypt, Thoth was a symbol for wisdom and knowledge, as well as a messenger of the "gods". So you can see how ravens or crows, the black birds I suppose can be used to reference the messenger symbolism, carrying knowledge. Thanks for the feedback.
Thanks i like stuff like this where my preconceptions on things i have taken for years are changed
Learning is fun :) "Getting" a piece of reality is rewarding.
Animals are a lot more intelligent that most of us think. Your post made me remember a funny video i saw a long time ago, that shows animals are capable of humour, which is a sign of intelligence. There's 2 instances in this video where a cat pushes another cat, which to me is very similar to a human prank, and another one with a tiger that does the same. Check it out here:
Several years ago I viisted the Grand Canyon- My GF and I were standing close to a park ranger at the top of a canyon- I saw a raven flying and pointed it out to my GF- the park ranger added this interesting fact about Ravens.
Apparently the ravens will start playing with wolf pups as soon as they start making 'public' appearances outside of the den- the adult wolves are OK with the ravens playing with their pups because they too played with the ravens when they were pups- this is why ravens are the only animals that the wolves will share their kills with- brilliant and forward thinking I'd say.
A key to cooperation is interaction, that association breeds identification and valuation which affects bonds and how to treat them. This applies throughout the animal kingdom, including humans. If people interacted more with animals, they would see the more as others, and less as things to do with as we please, as if we can actually own another or kill them just because we want to eat them.
That is a great post @krnel, thank you. Animals are very smart and it is so great to notice that.
It has got me to remember that I have read about one smart Crow. This crow would pick a walnut and drop it from the top of a traffic light right in front of the cars. When these cars drive over the walnut it cracks, ready for the Crow to eat.
Smart guy indeed. Thanks for sharing.
The main factor in why a became an Atheist from the age of 12 despite being raised in a Roman Catholic family, was because of how I saw "nonhuman animals" having WAY more in common with "human animals" then not!
I fully support freedom of mind and religion, as I know you do as well @krnel but I concluded early in life that we have so much in common with other species that if "we have a soul and animals do not" must be a lie!
Indeed, soul is just a euphemism to externalize ourselves, the psyche. Animals are part of the psychological dimension.
Seen of the nine chose a fair human. That tells me that even the raven can detect what is kind and what is not. Smart bird. Perhaps some humans ca learn a lesson from them.
Indeed, many of us get conditioned by unhealthy social environments where these types of things are not learned because those around don't act this way as they are "broken" as well, choosing to mistreat others and it gets learned as a behavior to perpetuate to others in their own lives.
A raven once followed me down the road on my way to the store...
When I came out of the store that bird flew at me. I think I had been forcing to much eye contact for its liking. Bird eat bird world out there.
LOL, those mischievous ravens!
This is very interesting to me!! Upvoted and followed!
Thanks for the support.
These are like my favorite birds along with magpies :)
Awesome post! I didn't know that ravens were so smart.
thanks for sharing
quite an interesting post!
Interestingly, there were conducted additional research on how to make peace with the crows?
wwowww very beautiful bird very nice post
What an excellent piece.It is so inspiring to read keep steeming on.Thanks for sharing.
Thank you @krnel, Upvote and repost.