What I'm trying to say is that human nature might impede the utopian ideal that you have. History is ripe with examples of people doing just that. Modernity and all it's technology doesn't do anything to alter morals and ethics. Not enough to make any system work for too long. While I would love to see this vision as a reality, I just don't think it's practical enough. Still though, it has it's strong points.
yeah, I get it. and my astrology transit of Mars square Mercury warned me I might be a bit aggressive with arguments today, so didn't mean to go on the offensive. lol.
just that the "human nature" piece... oh man. so much cognitive bias at work in the usual uses of that language, attempting to narrow down complexities into something that can be quickly and easily written off as something manageable in two words.
funny, how after reading that - turned back on the Zeitgeist 3 documentary, where it was talking about human society, and how some society have never had violence. point in addressing that = "human nature" can become so subjective... fuck. really can't even begin getting into what I'd like to explain of it right now.
This, I agree upon. Well, partly. Not even so much a matter of "practical," just as a realistic consideration of where we're at in the development of civilization, society, culture, psychology, etc. Any idealism or ideology is most likely doomed to failure, considering the limits of this reality we're living in. These constructs of man are imperfect. There are inherent limitations - perhaps that are a part of human nature, in the sense that we are still relatively young in our development and immature in our wisdom, which takes centuries upon centuries to truly ripen - that will prevent the actualization of such ideals, given the inertia of forces set into place and the time it'd take to alter...
undoubtedly, there are changes we can initiate in this lifetime to influence the direction of our culture and society to solve such challenges and problems. however realistically, they may take alot more lifetimes than this to be full extracted and implemented...
ugh. lol.
I gotcha and i'm not offended. I appreciate the convo. I guess I'm coming from a presupposition that believe's we're all inherently bad or deprived so that even our good or gracious acts are tainted by that. You can call it human nature or sin but it amounts to a whole lot of fallen people trying to find their way. We build these ideals based on good intentions but they always seem to fall short. Any way good convo.
Belief is the key word in that.
Others believe people are inherently good, and it’s society, culture, or poor upbringing that corrupts. I’d personally lean in that direction, though leave belief out of the equation.
And yeah, idealisms nearly always fail to live up to intentions, if for no other reason than they’re based on belief rather than consciousness - distorted maps of the territory full of assumptions and biases rather than a clear vision of the territority, objective honesty, and consciously-directed wisdom of how to harmonize with natural law...