fdbg
sfbg
7 years ago in #blockchains-contest by lukebrn (58)
$65.94
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77 votes
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You have received a @GrumpyCat flag because you or someone else sent money to buy votes from an irresponsible non-GrumpyCompliant service.
@sneaky-ninja and @aksdwi are acting irresponsibly by selling votes to people on their post very close to final payout. (~99% abuse rate)
Sending money to these bots is also financially supporting for-profit spammers.
To know what voting bot to use, refer to https://steembottracker.com/ and use those that have 3.5 day or less in the "Max Age" column.
Important, The above bots have made no effort to comply for months so the votes they sell might still be targeted even if they change their Max Age to 3.5 day.
Learn more ...
WE ARE THE RESISTANCE!
@GrumpyCat
Your self upvote is flagged by The-Resistance team using the WE-RESIST bot.
We will be resisting with a team, stronger each day, unless you stop downvoting innocent people.
To your tyranny WE-RESIST
The Resistance
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Why not ask them for their reasons directly? Why not name them? The problem, to me, is both a combination of lack of visibility (even in this post about voting rings, you didn't shed direct light on actual examples of the issue) and moralistic judgements before all the reasons are known. I think some people have reasons they think are valid (while clearly others may disagree). I'd like to see more people directly engaging in adult conversation about why someone is doing what they are doing, even if it appears to be something which harms the value of the whole network.
Yes, we might get flagged. I was flagged for 3 months straight by a massive whale. I'm still here. If we're acting out of fear, then we aren't going to contribute much of value.
There's also the simple concepts of greed and envy to consider.
Some people want to use the money they have to make more money. They don't care who disagrees with how they do it, as long as the net result is positive. I consider these people leeches to any community and, IMO, the best defense is to convince them they can have even more value if they worked with the community instead of against it (a rising tide raises all ships and all that). Often these people aren't super rational when it comes to long-term thinking, so there's certainly a limit on how effective this can be.
As for envy, some people see others with wealth, themselves without it, and they immediately think, "Something is wrong! Who is going to fix this!?" They rarely frame it as their own envy, but sometimes that's all it really is. Some people put in a lot more work that others. They actually get more output because of more valued input. Some people have been blogging for 10+ years and so their content reflects that. Others just started and are comparing their beginning with someone else's middle or end. I cover some of this in my relationships, reputation, and rewards post.
As far as I know, @misterdelegation is just steemit. It's not an altruistic whale. That said, I wish more people followed Steemit's example here. If they have enough Steem Power to go around and don't need to squeeze every last drop of profit out of the system in the short-term as they can, then they should delegate to project which will increase the overall value of the network for everyone. They might even gain more profits if that action increases the value of the their holdings. That's rational, long-term self-interest that helps everyone. That's why I delegate most of my witness Steem Power to projects which help the network.
Mainly as I do not want to start a flagging war -I'm happy to engage in conversation about what is happening, but as I am still relatively new to Steemit, and a tiny player on the platform, I do not want to be the person who starts it - quite honestly I have other things that I focus on, and don't have the time to make this my project. I think it's a project for witnesses or big players on the platform to start, and get our input.
Yes, we may get flagged - you seem to have a large amount of influence on the platform, a solid following, a lot of respect from others, and are a top 20 witness. While I only have 480 SP and 2600 SP delegated, as well as a much lower reputation, being flagged multiple times by a few big players could really destroy my reputation on Steemit. While I'm not saying that I want to do nothing, I feel like this should be led by people who can be protect/protect themselves against the reprecussions of starting a "flagging war".
I agree with your point on greed, and I would be really interested in trying to incentivise people to provide value by working with the community. I also agree with your point on envy, and will read your post in the morning as it's late here.
I was thinking that, but I was not 100% sure! Again, I completely agree. I have been looking for SP delegations for a long time, of any size, in order to help fund the SSI, and the Bloggers' Hub which we plan to implement - so I would love to see more Whales delegating in that sense, as it would really benefit my project, which aims to help the community. And again I agree, if they provide value that improves the community, this could bring more people to the community, and increase the overall success of the STEEM that they own. It's good to hear that you delegate your witness Steem Power!
Anyway, I'm currently putting together two different projects built on the STEEM blockchain (well one for definite, the other might be a generic web app), and hopefully one might expose voting rings and more, but it's only in the idea stages at the moment - let me know if you're interested in learning more, I'll be looking for developers to help with it for sure.
Thanks for the great comment!
I don't have time to commit to development, but I'm certainly interested in hearing about the project. You may be new, but you're already jumping in with valuable contributions. Some people who have been here a while still aren't doing that. Besides, "Luke" is a great name. ;)
Depending on who you get flagged by, it could be a bade of honor. :) I may not not increase the number next to your name, but if you're truly working to benefit the value of the network, investors and users alike will reward that approach. Besides, most people around here realize the number isn't really a healthy measure of reputation. Some people who irrationally flag others and self vote have high reputations by number than what the community at large might give them.
Good to hear - do you use Steemit Chat? I'd be happy to tell you about all of what im doing there, there's a bit much for one comment! Thank you, I'm definitely trying anyway - going to keep trying to grow the project, and once we get enough delegations, the Blogger's Hub should really start to take shape!
I agree with you that high reputations aren't clear representatives of actual reputation, but still, I feel that before I do anything too drastic, I should grow my community reputation more too. I've been thinking of running a witness server, and maybe some sort of program that can help solve these issues can be my contribution to the platform - I will definitely have a think about it anyway. And I agree, it's a pretty good name - coincidentally ;)
Yeah, I'm there and on discord. I get approached daily for support of various projects, as you can imagine, so I recommend mostly just building your thing. I like hearing updates about stuff that helps the community though.
Sounds good. Yeah I understand, Will definitely keep you updated!
I saw someone else's analysis on what reps users of certain rep levels vote for and receive votes from, and it was pretty telling. Save for a few exceptions most 70+ users mostly vote for 70+ users and receive most of their votes from 70+ users, so even without having to name individual users he basically detailed the fact that most large accounts on this platform do in fact engage in heavy circular voting.
And it's not that hard to see when you look at their vote graphs or even just click on who their recent posts got voted on by and which ones were the largest votes.
I do agree with you both in thinking that the current trend of profit maximization and severe wealth concentration has and always will damage the platform's chances as long as it continues.
There’s another way to interpret the rep voting. I vote for people who I’m friends with and want to support. Some of them joined when I joined and we became friends over time. Humans often clump together in similar economic and intellectual circles. The fact that they vote according to those same patterns doesn’t surprise me. The reputation system isn’t that great, but I do often find a correlation between the quality of the comment or post with the reputation score and that makes sense if more people with stake in the system voted them to give them that score.
Whales used to vote more. And everyone else's vote was worth hardly anything. The less whales that vote, the more the power to allocate rewards gets distributed. If only 1 person with 100SP voted on any day, they would have the power to allocate all rewards. That's just to illustrate how it works. When all the major whale accounts vote, they are distributing most of the rewards themselves and everyone else gets a lot less power. It's been proposed before that whales should not vote, and let the majority decide who gets rewards more.
Also, 70,000 SP is not a whale to me. You need at least 250,000, and better yet 500,000. The mega-whale users (1,000,000+) often have multiple accounts that they distribute their power to, hiding the power they have. That's just how I see whale power definitions. 70,000 is not a whale compared to the real whales...
Good points made in the post, I agree with most of it.
Thanks for the comment @krnel!
Are you sure that's how it works? If that was the case, vote worth for each user would fluctuate each day, would it not?
I agree with you there, I read in to it more after the post and saw how many people there are with 250K Plus! Thanks again, I appreciate your support. I gave you a follow and will check out your posts!
Yes, for SP voting and allocating from the reward pool, 100%. It's weighted by how many SP votes are used. If none of the majority holders of SP (less than 1% of users who have 250k+) used their SP, everyone else has greater influence and more allocation for posts each time they vote. Last year 45 accounts held most of the SP. I think it's a bit more dispersed now... but who knows who is a real person... since many of the rich just duped accounts and spread it around to appear less rich lol.
Interesting post @lukebrn! I agree with your concerns, especially those voting circles are dangerous.
Maybe we should have the ability to quickly see some info on a user's voting behaviour right here on the platform, not through a third party tool. We could include metrics like: % of self voting, % of votes on top 5 most voted on, some form of vote-concentration-score.
This would make people more aware of their own behaviour, but more importantly it would make it more visible for the others. I can imagine a selfcorrecting mechanism from this. If you know somebody votes a lot on themselves or only on 5 friends, would you still vote for them? I could help all those hoping minnows to redirect their votes to the right content and less to the whales (the bad ones I mean) while hoping for an upvote back...
Cheers!
Thanks!
That's a great idea, I'm not a great developer though. If you know any devs, send them my way and I'd be happy to help create something like that.
I agree with you completely! I have been thinking of becoming a witness, and would be very interested in a project like this.
Let me know if you want to talk more!
Maybe you should run for witness?
Yeah, you can choose to not to vote on those people.
But for most with a SP <100. It's not really going to matter much overall.
Upvoted and reestemed! Good deep thoughts man, keep it up! :)
I think the whales should do more training. Jerry is really cashing in but I think he is overall helpful to the platform because he does provide some training and guidance.
A thoughtful guide; thanks for writing it. Also, thanks for the link to the Conspiracy Writing Contest. :)
Resteemed.
Thanks @nxtblg! Trying to broaden out my content and grow more of a following while building up to the SSI rebranding :)
As the saying goes, '...with great power comes great responsibility'. Like you say, the whales are free to do what they like with their SP. After all, they either bought it or earned it like the rest of us. One would hope that there are enough whales looking to do good on the platform that the few bad apples wouldn't ruin it for everyone else.
I have no interest in these flagging wars as a minnow, nor would I as a whale, but it's good to know that some of the more influential users are helping others out along the way.
A truly great read and analysis of the steemit platform and the whale culture. I agree with your points and whilst I think allocation of upvotes isn't always fair, I guess some people are still learning the platform too and for others it could be a main income. But I hear you loud and clear. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for your comment and a very valid point! Thanks for all of the support, if you ever want to get involved in any of our projects let me know.
Always keen to get involved and help where I can. Just let me know what you need :-)
Sneaky Ninja Attack! You have been defended with a 13.98% vote... I was summoned by @lukebrn! I have done their bidding and now I will vanish...Whoosh
You got a 21.67% upvote from @upmyvote courtesy of @lukebrn!
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New to Steemit, so great informative read thanks!
Little bit the same situation as for btc, where miningfarms or whales can dominate the market. In a Dapp this isn't a healthy development, gowing back to centralized power again. Great to see that some people delegate their SP. Hope to see Steemit grow along with the community. Thanks again for the good info!
I agree that people don't read anymore on Steemit, they just use voting bots instead and that leads to blind votes. All the automated stuff made possible by the blockchain really hinder creativity in here. This needs to be addressed somehow if we want a good future in here.
Ive only been here a month and a week. You just taught me something new though. I had no idea about voting circles. I just heard about auto voters that you can add people to yesterday. I like to scroll through the new and hot tags and try to find new things to upvote/comment on. Seems like i am in the minority.
Congratulations! This post has been upvoted from the communal account, @minnowsupport, by lukebrn from the Minnow Support Project. It's a witness project run by aggroed, ausbitbank, teamsteem, theprophet0, someguy123, neoxian, followbtcnews, and netuoso. The goal is to help Steemit grow by supporting Minnows. Please find us at the Peace, Abundance, and Liberty Network (PALnet) Discord Channel. It's a completely public and open space to all members of the Steemit community who voluntarily choose to be there.
If you would like to delegate to the Minnow Support Project you can do so by clicking on the following links: 50SP, 100SP, 250SP, 500SP, 1000SP, 5000SP.
Be sure to leave at least 50SP undelegated on your account.
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You are bullied by @grumpycat on your post.
We are resisting this.
Check this link,spread the word and join us if you would agree.
https://steemit.com/the-resistance/@the-resistance/we-declare-resistance
@GrumpyCat, to your tyranny WE-RESIST
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Solid piece of writing. You touched on some very important issues within our ecosystem. Good luck in the contest
Thank you, glad that you enjoyed it!
Excellent read Luke. It's hard to know what is best for the platform. People who got in early and invested and are now whales seem to think it's ok voting for themselves massive payments, sort of like getting dividends on their investment.
Voting circles are another thing altogether, this is really bad but again they feel it's ok for to vote each other and get the majority of rewards for themselves. Greed is a terrible thing.
How to solve the problem, get rich and become a whale. Upvoted and resteemed.