but I certainly know of a few people who do, as it’s quite obvious.
Why not ask them for their reasons directly? Why not name them? The problem, to me, is both a combination of lack of visibility (even in this post about voting rings, you didn't shed direct light on actual examples of the issue) and moralistic judgements before all the reasons are known. I think some people have reasons they think are valid (while clearly others may disagree). I'd like to see more people directly engaging in adult conversation about why someone is doing what they are doing, even if it appears to be something which harms the value of the whole network.
Yes, we might get flagged. I was flagged for 3 months straight by a massive whale. I'm still here. If we're acting out of fear, then we aren't going to contribute much of value.
There's also the simple concepts of greed and envy to consider.
Some people want to use the money they have to make more money. They don't care who disagrees with how they do it, as long as the net result is positive. I consider these people leeches to any community and, IMO, the best defense is to convince them they can have even more value if they worked with the community instead of against it (a rising tide raises all ships and all that). Often these people aren't super rational when it comes to long-term thinking, so there's certainly a limit on how effective this can be.
As for envy, some people see others with wealth, themselves without it, and they immediately think, "Something is wrong! Who is going to fix this!?" They rarely frame it as their own envy, but sometimes that's all it really is. Some people put in a lot more work that others. They actually get more output because of more valued input. Some people have been blogging for 10+ years and so their content reflects that. Others just started and are comparing their beginning with someone else's middle or end. I cover some of this in my relationships, reputation, and rewards post.
As far as I know, @misterdelegation is just steemit. It's not an altruistic whale. That said, I wish more people followed Steemit's example here. If they have enough Steem Power to go around and don't need to squeeze every last drop of profit out of the system in the short-term as they can, then they should delegate to project which will increase the overall value of the network for everyone. They might even gain more profits if that action increases the value of the their holdings. That's rational, long-term self-interest that helps everyone. That's why I delegate most of my witness Steem Power to projects which help the network.
Mainly as I do not want to start a flagging war -I'm happy to engage in conversation about what is happening, but as I am still relatively new to Steemit, and a tiny player on the platform, I do not want to be the person who starts it - quite honestly I have other things that I focus on, and don't have the time to make this my project. I think it's a project for witnesses or big players on the platform to start, and get our input.
Yes, we may get flagged - you seem to have a large amount of influence on the platform, a solid following, a lot of respect from others, and are a top 20 witness. While I only have 480 SP and 2600 SP delegated, as well as a much lower reputation, being flagged multiple times by a few big players could really destroy my reputation on Steemit. While I'm not saying that I want to do nothing, I feel like this should be led by people who can be protect/protect themselves against the reprecussions of starting a "flagging war".
I agree with your point on greed, and I would be really interested in trying to incentivise people to provide value by working with the community. I also agree with your point on envy, and will read your post in the morning as it's late here.
I was thinking that, but I was not 100% sure! Again, I completely agree. I have been looking for SP delegations for a long time, of any size, in order to help fund the SSI, and the Bloggers' Hub which we plan to implement - so I would love to see more Whales delegating in that sense, as it would really benefit my project, which aims to help the community. And again I agree, if they provide value that improves the community, this could bring more people to the community, and increase the overall success of the STEEM that they own. It's good to hear that you delegate your witness Steem Power!
Anyway, I'm currently putting together two different projects built on the STEEM blockchain (well one for definite, the other might be a generic web app), and hopefully one might expose voting rings and more, but it's only in the idea stages at the moment - let me know if you're interested in learning more, I'll be looking for developers to help with it for sure.
Thanks for the great comment!
I don't have time to commit to development, but I'm certainly interested in hearing about the project. You may be new, but you're already jumping in with valuable contributions. Some people who have been here a while still aren't doing that. Besides, "Luke" is a great name. ;)
Depending on who you get flagged by, it could be a bade of honor. :) I may not not increase the number next to your name, but if you're truly working to benefit the value of the network, investors and users alike will reward that approach. Besides, most people around here realize the number isn't really a healthy measure of reputation. Some people who irrationally flag others and self vote have high reputations by number than what the community at large might give them.
Good to hear - do you use Steemit Chat? I'd be happy to tell you about all of what im doing there, there's a bit much for one comment! Thank you, I'm definitely trying anyway - going to keep trying to grow the project, and once we get enough delegations, the Blogger's Hub should really start to take shape!
I agree with you that high reputations aren't clear representatives of actual reputation, but still, I feel that before I do anything too drastic, I should grow my community reputation more too. I've been thinking of running a witness server, and maybe some sort of program that can help solve these issues can be my contribution to the platform - I will definitely have a think about it anyway. And I agree, it's a pretty good name - coincidentally ;)
Yeah, I'm there and on discord. I get approached daily for support of various projects, as you can imagine, so I recommend mostly just building your thing. I like hearing updates about stuff that helps the community though.
Sounds good. Yeah I understand, Will definitely keep you updated!
I saw someone else's analysis on what reps users of certain rep levels vote for and receive votes from, and it was pretty telling. Save for a few exceptions most 70+ users mostly vote for 70+ users and receive most of their votes from 70+ users, so even without having to name individual users he basically detailed the fact that most large accounts on this platform do in fact engage in heavy circular voting.
And it's not that hard to see when you look at their vote graphs or even just click on who their recent posts got voted on by and which ones were the largest votes.
I do agree with you both in thinking that the current trend of profit maximization and severe wealth concentration has and always will damage the platform's chances as long as it continues.
There’s another way to interpret the rep voting. I vote for people who I’m friends with and want to support. Some of them joined when I joined and we became friends over time. Humans often clump together in similar economic and intellectual circles. The fact that they vote according to those same patterns doesn’t surprise me. The reputation system isn’t that great, but I do often find a correlation between the quality of the comment or post with the reputation score and that makes sense if more people with stake in the system voted them to give them that score.