Here’s a snippet of events in order to color in context:
- Dan writes early BTS paper (though it’s unclear if this was a paper prior to the one published by Charles and Dan together) - sees locking up of BTS for BitAsset as a holy grail in supply reduction.
- Charles is in the crypto space already talking about DEX and other later-to-be-developed concepts; teaching courses on bitcoin and cryptocurrency; gets put in touch w Dan
- Early BTS; Dan and Charles clash on personal level - stemming from competing technical desires and ego desires. They split.
- Charles rebounds immediately and is the first technologist to recognize Turing Complete potential when introduced to Vitalik by Anthony Di Orio. Dan has no awareness to the effort and Ethereum concept.
- Ethereum announced.
- Dan purports any successes of Eth can be adopted by BTS.
- Dan tells confidants (including me but I was later than others) he will attempt Turing Complete one day.
7.5 Dan leaves BTS. - Dan does Steem with me and founding team.
8.25 Steem working; July 2016; Dan begins selling Ned about the wow factor of Wren in Dan’s living room.
8.5. Cob and associate calls Ned. Ned tells them about possible future token protocols on Steem. - Dan tells Steem he will build Turing Complete on Steem (Wren). (I was not pre-aware or expecting the public communications from Dan on this. Others in the organization were skeptical of Wren).
- Dan leaves Steem. Tells community he will not be posting anymore.
10.5. Dan asks Ned not to compete with EOS because of market clarity - EOS begins building by copying BTS STEEM and Ethereum - Wren concept is dropped - subsequently Web Assembly ideas of Ethereum are harnessed - and reverse auction IPO levered for fundraising EOS.
11.5 Ned writes SMT Whitepaper with @theoretical. Ned includes section criticizing the weaknesses of general purpose / Turing Complete / general scripting on blockchain - and advocates application specific programs tailored to high demand use cases - I.e. specialized programmability tokens for fundraising, monetization and growth. - Dan writes post about Ouroboros and comments about Hoskinson from his very own viewpoint.
- The cult of personality on Steem begs for more!
Luckily this is nearly 1/1000th of the gory details and barely magnified! Ive got all the rest in my journals (and tapes from when things got dicey) (that get released by my lawyers if I die (/not only if I am killed/) before deciding to include or not include these chapters in a book).
Despite the commentary, at the end of the day Hoskinson and Larimer are both credibly respectable for certain things - no one is perfect and I believe we can consider them both thoughtful technologists, and to see some of the name calling - frankly from glass houses, it calls to advise everyone to take the “think about yourself” approach before judging others and spreading memes that physically cannot be whole truths because everything is interpretation.
On the whole, and from what seems to have spawned these posts, I’d love to see more real academic style accreditation in crypto industry whitepapers. Other than Bitcoin’s Whitepaper, not many are arguably sound from a formally-correct academic perspective.
In short response, the falling out between the pair, Hoskinson and Larimer, clearly had little impact on the conceptual elements of these new projects, Cardano and EOS, because the pair’s falling out predates even the mother concept, Ethereum - but rather the pair’s falling out was one of the key catalysts for Ethereum coming into existence as successfully as it did because it put Charles on a path to spearhead it.
Contributed from my iPhone. Please excuse any grammatical mistakes or errors.
Thx Ned!
Nice
If you want copies of what I've got, let me know! Could be quite a collab...
Thank you for the context!! Wow so much to take in right now
pretty nice analysis you have done.
I like boobs
Some big details there... A bit disappointing he didn't just stay with Steem...
I don't know, it's kind of bitter sweet. EOS has some great potential, from which the entire space will benefit.
The question is how long will BM stay in the EOS project?
For the foreseeable EOS future. There's mass amounts of development support for EOS that will last a lifetime. They will also contribute to Dapps development and so on.
You are right.....
Genius alway want to start something new. Like the Newton always switching new frontiers.
Thank you, Ned. To me, that context is important and helpful because without it, people imagine in the details. So much of the speculative valuation in the cryptocurrency space relies on sentiment driven by one-sided perspectives on the personalities involved. That increases the importance of individual actions and reputation and on getting accurate information about the history of the people involved.
I wonder how many posts will talk about your thousand dollar vote. :)
MANY of my friends WONT join steemit because of the steem power issues where large investors rule what people see.. and the artistic expression is ruined for those that want to see what is really popular, rather that what is promoted.
IT NEEDS TO GET FIXED
prmoted is only in promoted tab....
That’s how easy it is to get rewards.
What did I do for those past 1.5 years???
Feeling like a working 🐝🐝🐝 right now😜
Omg I love it! I’m a 14 year old in the middle of grown men trying to survive . I’ll just keep on posting and roll with the tide!
your generation is the future my friend, and it looks like a bright one
Hopefully you are correct!👍🏻
Wow, nice info, thanks for sharing this with us.
thanks for sharing!
Very good information. I'm sort of disappointed with how Dan jumps from project to project and talks dirt about other projects. Charles never does that (as far as i know).
It would however be very interesting to to see Dan and Charles go on the record and discuss this more on the tech side.
Bitshares, eth, etc, cardano... seems like you need to fact check.
Haters gonna hate. You keep up the good work.
I like boobs
@dan You are doing valuable work no matter what OS "project" you are working on.
In the OS space there is only one team and one project that benefits the whole Universe. Sorry to see people who are asleep to that and only focused on their little sliver of OS.
What we are collectively developing is nothing less than a universe - the Blockchain Universe. Bitshares, Steem and EOS are planets in that universe at specific stages of development. Everything has value because they demonstrate varieties of possibilities for future creations. (from my post ... Philosophy of the OS Universe - by a Blockchain Social Scientist)
Naw. He needs to downvote facts. And for the record, the risk to reward ratio for me saying this is definitely not in my favor considering past experience.
The facts are unacceptable, but this risk may be a big step to win. @fuzzyvest
You kicked him out Bitshares. Vitalik et al basically kicked him out of ETH because he didn’t want them to do an ICO the way they did it. ETC is political hot potato, so he found funding and is happy running IOHK with many PhDs which you are not.
I don't see nothing wrong with Dan taking on new projects. He's just way too good at designing new systems to be just maintaining one project.
I've heard Jordan Peterson in some video say once that liberal people tend to start companies and conservative people tend to run them. Or something like that. Either way it makes sense to me that some people are just way better at creating new things than maintaining them.
Btw Charles jumps around also, maybe even more.
Right. The different personality types need each other. The high in Openness types are required to create, think up, and launch crazy, disruptive ideas/businesses. But they are not the types to RUN the company once established. This is where the high in Conscientiousness types are needed. Their Orderliness and Industriousness (along with a usually lower openness) make them perfect for saying "OK enough of this crazy brainstorming. Let's get this done, effective, efficient and delivered"
There is IMMENSE value in understanding this. It appears to me Dan understood this around the time he left BitShares. He went from CEO of a company to a CTO and he left once his main added value was delivered.
This is how the world will gain most value from Dan, IMO. We won't benefit from Dan attending business meetings, doing taxes, working on a marketing campaign, etc. We benefit from this guy thinking and building incredible DACs/DAOs and DApps.
great insight
absolutely correct
most have no idea of how important this focus will be
dan make things happen, and manifests - thanks @dan
That is a really good point, @cob. Very well said. This comment nicely pads out the context Ned "colored" in.
The world is not split between open minded liberals and industrious conservatives, that's a blatantly oversimplified dualist fairytale but of course Jordan Peterson would say something like that.
The greats such as Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg can do both.
Dan is handicapped.
I'm the same. I invent and I'm terrible at maintaining. Many skill sets needed to make the (crypto) world go round.
That's true but I would consider all of crypto to be in a creation phase until 2020.
Maybe he just likes the founder coins.
No question, it's not about judgement in that respect and I hate that sort of judgement.
Dan is the only person I have seen consistently offer his technical views on so many projects.
I don't interpret it as dirt, but as a critical review from his experience. Very valuable critique, personally I find it a good sign he jumps from project to project as his value is in being at the frontier. Once a project is running, it's hard to change so there is no real choice here.
I think you will find charles has quite the potty mouth. check his tweets when asked questions about Dpos origins.
BTW Charles has now been involved in BTS - ETH- ETC and now ADA. see a pattern here?
You upvote a comment by around a thousand dollars and you post a list of occurrences with so much context and so many facts missing as if it has any value at all. Somewhat ridiculous.
You are absolutely right. Actually, this is a complete mystery. @benjojo
I am new in steem yet. I do not know if I can be like you someday but I just hope. I would be very happy if you could support me. I hope you see this post @benjojo
interesting ..i hope you all find peace
Best comment so far.
Thank you for chiming in Ned! I for one am glad to have the spirit of competition alive and well within the space and see some disagreement between developers from time to time. It just illustrates that they are actively engaging and truly pushing one another to be their best and produce the best possible products.
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." – George S. Patton
Now I know why Satoshi Nakamoto remains incognito. Otherwise he would have wasted a lot of his energy, being forced to, defend each of his original choices and comment on each new coin and technology.
Boom
Woooooowhaaaa....t
Oh I see ... and the plot thickens.
If you decide to publish would it be only in book form or series on steemit or some other platform ?
Maybe via Publica (PBL)?
how interesting...dpos didnt exist when dan and charles were talking in the early days about the basic concept of bitassets (which is what bitshares was about.)
And btw ned, at what point did u plan on mentioning that you kicked me from your "elite" steem channel, stole my concepts of community/tag coins that are recorded on record before u ever "envisioned" smt, labeled them "SMT", downvoted the whaletank u said was "better than DASH DAO and worker proposals"
and offered 750k steem in early days for me to sell out to you?
Get off the high horse...people dont fall for it.
If Detractor Fuzzy thinks whale tank pre dates SMT conceptually here is my LOL, and double LOL if Detractor Fuzzy thinks they’re the same in any way, mechanically or in intent. Clearly Detractor Fuzzy is ignorantly proceeding as if all tokens are the same while taking no time to appreciate the nuances of tokens for new use cases nor the vast amount new and borrowered concepts actually recognized in the SMT paper. Detractor Fuzzy’s experiment built on Fail Tokens does not fit the bill to be recognized - but if it’s one use case for SMTs by all means bring it on over. So..If we’re just talking about tokens ...Detractor Fuzzy should go back to the 90’s to start doing proper accreditation.
Contributed from my iPhone. Please excuse any grammatical mistakes or errors.
Bro send me some Steem 😜😜😜
I could not agree more on the observation that a lot of whitepapers lack methodology and academic accuracy, which is substituted by layout and marketing mostly!
Great breakdown
Thanks Ned.
I have invested in Cardano for following reasons:
1.Cardano's methodologies will be peer reviewed and code will be audited by third party.
2.It talks about Interoperability which no one else is talking. We can't ignore the giant elephant in the room (govt. regulators) and pretend it doesn't exist or impact crypto currencies in any way.
Cardano is attempting to make peer reviewed white papers as a gold standard for crypto currencies.
Totally agree. Those folks didn't realize the importance of that.
upvote because things gets personal and religious way too quickly in here. And this is very scary for everyone, specially newcomers. We need more academic discussions that avoid ad hominem attacks.
So I don't understand this stuff nearly as much as you do but what attracted me to Caranado was the ability for on chain upgrades. It's not implemented yet so technically they are still hard forking. The space is looking for an Etherum killer and Ripple ain't it. I can't wait for SMT to get released!!
Eos will have on chain updates as well for many things.
Ripple is the crypto killer. People in it are just handing their money back to the banks.
Ripple is like buying shares in someone to breed stronger and faster horses because they don't like the idea of automobiles.
History provides us with many lessons for free and costs nothing to learn from
I'd read that book.
Thanks for sharing @cob
Did you type that or mix in speech to text?
Both options can cause grammatical errors I believe.
As always @ned and @dan thank you for the platform you have provided. I know many already benefited and will continue to do so that's including me.
@ned your feedback is always appreciated as you are the face of STEEM. Thank you for your knowledgeable input.
Cheers,
@shares
I like boobs
So who would you say is Bill and the other Steve?
Neither fits well and neither is elevated at the height of the industry right now in the likes of Vitalik nor Satoshi - also Bill and Steve were both ENTJs... one company for each. .. Comparisons are unflattering anyway. May all the blockchain pioneers have their own well known legacies some day. :P
ha ha ha you right sir , good analysis ! @ned
Wow Nice Share How can I see the full event?
hahahaha this whole thing rules.
while we are talking about controversial steem stuff, anyone want to talk about how much steem the founders own and why and what are they going to do with it?
That's how analysis is done. Health in their hands @ned
@ned thanks for sharing with us the timeline!
MANY of my friends WONT join steemit because of the steem power issues where large investors rule what people see.. and the artistic expression is ruined for those that want to see what is really popular, rather that what is promoted.
IT NEEDS TO GET FIXED
Very informative!
Ethereum is best crypto
For how long?
well this was probably the best comment I ever read on steemit and I read quite a few. Don't wanna sound like I'm licking your boots cause I just realized who you are (the Big Ned:) but hats off bro. There should be a movie made about it, lovely drama. And hopefully those tapes won't ever have to get to any lawyer! I cheer for both EOS and ADA, that's how crypto space grows, despite the ego clashes. Be well @ned!
12 "Dan writes post about Ouroboros and comments about Hoskinson from his very own viewpoint.
13 The cult of personality on Steem begs for more!
Uff!
Putting it out there @ned. I've never spoken to @dan directly. I know of him, and his history.. and I appreciate his intentions. At some point if you want to talk on discord or email, I'm in email [email protected] -- in all the work you do, I think it would be worth your while to spend 5 minutes with a conversation with me when you are ready on discord or email. I'm a trained systems analysist with years of business. I'd like to talk to you if you can afford the time.
you sound salty