RE: 3 BIG FAT LIES THAT IS BELIEVED AND PREACHED BY MAINSTREAM CHURCHES

[garthfreeman]

Okay, well I think the bible clearly teaches Jesus is God, so is it possible to dispose of the pretension?

If Jesus is just a man, then how were all things made by and through him as stated in John chapter one, and Colossians 1:16.

Comments

[pretradition]

I thought that trinitarians agreed that the trinity was a mystery and that it wasn't clearly shown in the Scriptures. Regardless, I'll get to your question.

John 1 doesn't say anything about things being made by Jesus, but rather by the word.

To the point of your question, the key is understanding two words, "of" and "by". All things are of God and by Christ. (1 Corinthians 8:6)

God alone created all things, and yet all things are reconciled to God by Christ. The Creation is made perfect through Christ. God knows the end from the beginning and created all things through the finishing work of His son. Jesus didn't "create", but yet by him(on account of him and through the finishing work of him) were all things created. This is why we are called a new creation in Christ.

You may need to dwell on that for a while. The English makes it tough to get, but the meaning is preserved.

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

[garthfreeman]

Well, I just said the Bible clearly teaches Jesus is God. To get the Trinity you need the Holy Spirit being personal and God. We can get to that later, if you wish.

First, I don't see how you can deny that John is talking about Jesus in John 1. He says that the "Word became flesh and dwelt among us" and then identifies the word as "the only Son from the Father." There's a whole lot more here, too. This could take up pages, but John is playing on a well established theme in the old testament regarding the bodily appearances of YHWH in which God is identified as "The Word of God."

Second, I think you are misunderstanding the passage in Colossians. Paul says that ALL things were created by him, then goes on to list everything in heaven, on earth, then all things visible and invisible, to include "rulers and authorities." Rulers and authorities is a clear reference to the heavenly host. Are you saying now that Jesus died to save Satan from his sins? Is Satan made new in Christ?

We are a new creation because Jesus condescended to become one of us: he didn't become one of the angels.

Philippians 2:5-8

5 Make your ow attitude that of Christ Jesus,6 who, existing in the form of God,did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.7 Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave,
taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form, 8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death—even to death on a cross.

What does it mean that Jesus was equal with God? How could Jesus take on the likeness of men, if he is just a man? Wouldn't he just be born? Taking on the likeness of man implies He was something else: Equal with God.