You know, I think the analogy of a parent knowing what the child is going to do is a good one. Sure, parents can't know everything like God can, but it gives a framework of understanding.
Incidentally, I think that's why God likes to use stories. In stories, you don't have to understand all the minute details or remember them word for word, the story paints a picture in our minds, giving us something to think about.
There sure is a lot going on in the bible, in regard to free will. I do think there are verses that seem to say everything has been determined, yet some seem to teach they aren't. I think the point is to get us to think about it, and I even think that God put stuff like that in the Bible so we could practice getting along with each other despite our disagreements. (I don't think we're doing well with that)
I think it's best to hold some of these ideas with an open hand. What I mean is, it's okay to have an opinion, but we shouldn't hold too tight to those opinions, and we should be ready to drop them if shown they're wrong. My big issue with determinism is that for many people, it is their defining belief. It becomes the lens they use to view the Bible and understand God, when it should work the other way around.
I think the big roadblocks for me, in terms of believing in total predestination are that: I think people misinterpret "elect" and "kingdom," and the Bible spends a lot of time telling people to make good choices. It doesn't make sense to me for God to create the world with the end already determined, then to intervene with that world to warn people against what He already determined that they would do.
Also, I have a different take on Romans 9. I think the whole chapter, Paul is using a rhetorical device to make his main argument, which is summed up in vs 30-33
30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion ya stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; zand whoever believes in him will not be aput to shame.”
He uses the potter and clay imagery from Jeremiah 18, where God tells Jeremiah that He is able to reshape His people in the same way a potter reshapes a vessel that wasn't working out right. The vessel is marred, and the potter forms it into something else. If you read through Jerimiah 18, it's another passage where God is telling His people if they repent, He will change His mind regarding how they are dealt with.
Thanks for commenting!
I understand. But I think by accepting those passages that say He's determined everything, we can get a better sense of what that leaves us in terms of our free will. I also think doing that corresponds to what we know about God's nature and what He's revealed about Himself and the world. All in all, I believe it's in line with God's Word to believe that for Him, everything that's happened and will happen in this world has been written from first to last before He even created this world. Knowing us perfectly individually, he created the world and already fully responded to each of us and all of us as a whole too.
As I mentioned, the Bible says that Jesus was the Lamb slain from the world. So God knew that Adam and Eve would sin as they did before He created them and the world. Then after they sinned, when they hid from Him, He called out asking where they were. I have to believe He knew exactly where they were. Jesus made the same sort of statements and asked similar questions. He knew the answers even when He asked questions, and openly said a couple of times that He spoke things just for the benefit of those listening.
Since we just have very limited knowledge, much of the equation, if you put it in those terms, is missing. But we can know the answer that God is just, whatever things seem like. Somewhere in some way we have free will, or else God wouldn't judge us.
I can understand that perspective. We all need to figure out a way that it all makes sense for us.
My main issue with that line of thinking, is that it seems to me you make God responsible for sin, suffering, and death.
Imagine a young mother living in Pakistan who never heard the gospel, is killed along with her children by a drone strike. Now, if God knew everything that was going to happen, and it was all according to His plan, then that means God created that women and her children just to live life as unbelievers and die young, never hearing the gospel. The children never getting a chance to grow.
To me, it seems that if you say God planned everything that happened, that means God is the originator of evil, or at the very least un-Holiness. He created it when He created man because He knew man would sin, yet made him anyway.
I also think the most logical reading of scripture indicates free will. God is constantly telling people to change. He's warning, cajoling, threatening, sending prophets and droughts... You don't warn someone if you already know what they are going to do because you planned it. You only warn them if they are capable of changing their minds.
Plus, there are times where God seems unsure of what's going to happen. (EX 33:5, Ex 4:8-9, Jer 26:3) Sometimes He seems surprised. (Ish 63:8-10, Jer 3:6-7 & 19-20) Not to mention the times God changes His mind.
That all implies that to some degree God lets man decide what's going to happen. If it truly is man's decision then it can't be already decided by God. That reduces man to mechanical toys that God made to amuse Himself.
Anyway, I know I'm of a minority opinion on this one. I understand I'm not likely to change anyone's mind about this, but I'd like to put some pebbles in some people's shoes. There's just too many Christians walking around saying you have to be a Calvinist to follow Jesus, or KJV only, or sacred name, or Hebrew roots, or Catholic, etc... I think a lot of people have never heard thinking from another perspective, so I'm here to help!