Vlog 415: HF 21 thoughts

in #dtube5 years ago (edited)


The most powerful aspect of the Steem Blockchain for me is that anyone can empower themselves.

Will the changes proposed in the HF21 strengthen this aspect or weaken it that is the question I ask myself today.

I talk about it more in my vlog.



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I always enjoy your insights and I trust your judgement based on you being an investor and a user. The analogy of programmers not understanding people was great. "They'll go out and play on the grass rather than build the house!" Lol

I didn't see you comment on @steemitblog's announcement. Did I miss it? Please voice your concerns there as you do have their respect and attention! What does the @oracle-d team think?

I agree with your thoughts on the SPS. Why take away 10% of the reward pool in order to pay for things that are being built anyway? This building is being done organically and the builders are actually creating business models with outside income sources. This will take away incentive! In my worst English "if it ain't broke don't fix it!"

Let's look now at the reward curve and why I hate the proposal. As a disclaimer I must first write that I have purchased about 25,000 SP at between $1 and $3!

Why I Don't Like It:

1.) If Steemit.com wants another reward model for bloggers they can use SMT's to do it. Don't mess with your unpaid builders!

The Steem blockchain is NOT a blogging blockchain so they shouldn't base everything on that! That is NOT visionary!

2.) Those of us that have built using the current reward system are going to get penalized. I reward all commenters on my posts with an upvote of at least 3% if I can't do that my community has less incentive. What about big investors that are trying to build a communtiy and reward them. Will they still invest? Probably not.

In any case @blockbrothers has the proxy vote for all of my accounts and I'm glad that you are being vocal about your concerns.

On another note why are you using DTube when 3Speak is giving you awesome pay-outs?

Before commenting on the official announcement I'll wait for the testnet. See this thing in action first to form a better idea of what it will look like. Also, most of the time, I stay out of these long discussions because it takes an incredible amount of time and usually leads to nowhere (from experience).

Once it's crushing time and consensus must be reached to make it happen we will know what we are voting for and what it looks like and I'll voice my opinion stronger if needed.

I do like to talk about these things already (like I have always done) on my personal blog and also get a feel of what the consensus is out there from other Steemians.

Thanks for entrusting @blockbrothers with your proxy. We recently updated the list.

I agree that Steem is no longer a bloggers platform, I call it the blockchain of opportunity. I also think SMT's/STEEM ENGINE tokens are the way to reward (blogging) communities.

I use Dtube and 3Speak interchangeably. I like supporting and using many apps on the blockchain, that's the reason.

Patience is a course of wisdom as regards the testnet. Most comments that I've read are negative. I will wait, blog and watch.

Also @kus-knee if you can't upvote your commenters then they will be more susceptible too my flags! lol

Look at poor little @coininstant being trolled like the bitch he is by an automated bot. Jump monkey, jump!! Good boy.

this is such an important video man. thank you for sharing your thoughts.

i’m very worried as well for the reasons you stated. programmers don’t often think in ‘human’ lol which means the human element can be missed. a downvote isn’t the same as an upvote and the ‘human’ will react regardless of what you try to wrap it as.

quick question for the idiot in me. i understand 50/50. i think curation is fine and i’m ok with that. but why not keep the linear reward curve? so people know what their vote is worth. is there something that can’t function when doing 50/50 with it? pardon my ignorance.

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They want to change the curve to make it less economically viable to vote on yourself. That's why it slopes up first. That first vote has almost no impact.

If a vote on yourself is less economically viable than using that same vote to vote for a piece of content you think will do well and you earn more with curation, they think this will change voting behavior for the better.

But like I said, the feeling of empowering yourself becomes less. Most people, myself included, are mediocre content creators. But we are builders non the less and steempower is our building tool. Unless you already have a lot it's going to be more difficult to use your SP to empower your own blog/account.

This entire HF21 just feels like Steem inc want a front page with actual quality content like Reddit that regular people who don't need to have a steem account visit on a daily basis so they can get more advertisement revenue.

Downvotes will trigger people like crazy (I noticed it happening to myself also), non-linear reward curve will make it impossible to get anything going for new and regular small-mid-size users. It will be impossible to give a small thank you to readers who took the time to make a comment they put some time in. Most people I know who that are active daily on Steemit also have the 'build your own account' mentality (including myself) which is highly consistent and gives a strong reason to hold SP.

I hope there is still a way to stop this, it feels like literally 100% of users is against what is about to happen with HF21

All good points!

The build your own account mentality (I guess I call it empowering yourself) has been a huge motivator for me to show up every day and work hard and I guess this goes for a lot of ppl indeed.

Wait, does the next hard fork include a seperate downvote pool?

yes indeed, you will be able to do free downvotes each day which will make people that get downvoted go totally crazy most likely looking to take revenge. I hope it's possible to just lease it out to groups that watch over the platform and downvote the real abusers.

Your normally so upbeat but I didn't get that today. 'The little man is going to suffer'..

I don't like that concept at all, and if this all goes pair shaped.. we may be buying STEEM at 7c again.

I just doesnt feel or sound good to me at all.

I hate it!

I don't think we will ever see 7c STEEM ever again even if these changes take place.

But I do hope that they will realize that the true power of Steem (for me at least) is that it allows people to empower themselves (big and small) and with all this new technology now build on Steem this is happening now more than ever. Interfering with that mindset can have big consequences.

I am still upbeat! Don't worry! It was super early in the Netherlands when I recorded it and I probably should have drunk a bit more coffee first to wake up!

Yes coffee is the answer.. drinking some Columbian roast right now.. cheers!

Haha, that's probably better than what I have. I still drink coffee from a filter coffee machine that looks like this, I do like it though:

I agree completely. This is not about the Steem community but about Steemit. This has nothing to do with making the community stronger and better.

The fact that it takes 16 STU before the new reward curve kicks in means that it will screw over the smaller accounts. Plus, the reduction in payout to authors means that few of them are going to get anything. This is only enhancing the wealthy on Steem.

In spite of the years of talking, they still think that changing an algorithm will alter human behavior. This is something that Dan doesnt grasp either.

I hate the proposal. I've been here for 3 years and have worked hard to build and to help. Not sure I'll stick around.

Give ppl the tools to empower themselves and they will do so. You only have to look at Steem and what's been build on top of in the last 2 years to see that it works. It happens on all kinds of levels, from the small minnow creating content and earning another 0,5 STEEM to big developers making Steem Engine. I don't understand why this behavior needs to be changed.

Hahahaha. You're so right about human behaviour and the psychology of upvotes vs downvotes. There was an experiment where two people where given an amount of money (I'm not sure about the exact figures).
Person A: Given $5
Person B: Given $10, and then asked to give back $5 to end up with $5

The attitude of each person was completely different. Person A was so glad to have got a 'free' $5, while person B was angry about losing $5 :)

I was quite optimistic about HF21 earlier but now you got me worried if I will get enough rewards in SBD to distribute for donations and prizes... I might need to switch to donations and prizes in PAL. And hopefully other communities will be created with their native tokens which in the long run will be a good thing. But specifically what HF21 will do for Steemit ecosystem, I don't think they have a definite answer because as you say, a programmer has to be an active user to understand all the implications of the proposed changes.

You know what would be good - if STINC payed salaries for developers in Steem or SBD, just like we are getting rewarded. Maybe then they would come up with better solutions for everyone.

Lucky for us we have PalNet, @aggroed and his team.

Your single vote will most likely be worth a lot less on a comment then now if HF21 happens. Switching to donations in STEEM/SBD directly is probably the way to go while you earn those back more efficiently doing something else (most likely curating).

Yes, curation rewards might increase while author rewards might decrease. It's an oversimplification of course, but we will see more details later on. Maybe somebody will do more exact scenario planning with examples. You did it in the video which helped clarify things a bit. For example, taking a real post or two that somebody recently wrote 7 days ago and see how those upvotes would translate under new rules.

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Yes, curation revenue might increase while author revenue might decrease. It's an oversimplification of course, but we will see more details later on. Maybe somebody will do more exact scenario planning with examples. You did it in the video which helped clarify things a bit.

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Someone who finally receives a 10$ payout for the first time (I never received such a payout!) and receives a $4 downvote, like in your awesome and funny example, either

  • goes mad and retaliates, or
  • he's disappointed, starts to doubt himself, asking himself "What did I do wrong to deserve it?", or
  • he says "f*ck it!", leaves the platform searches for an alternative that he considers fair.

Three ways to react, none of which is about unsettled payouts.

I don't know, maybe this is the right direction. HF21 will hit me hard. Very hard. As it will the majority of content creators. But the future of content creation is represented by the communities and their tokens, I believe. STEEM, SBD and SP will unlikely be earned (easily) through content creation in the future.

I am a little nervous about how this is all going to shake out. I think if it doesn't go well they will definitely get it fixed, but things might be beyond help at that point. I have been trying to increase my curation rewards more lately, so it will be interesting to see how that changes after the hard fork.

Europeans swear so well. I love it. I had a Swedish colleague when I worked at IKEA, Anton.
Really fun guy backpacking around Australia. His swearing was exquisite.

This was a very rare occurrence for me, lol. But I felt like it could emphasize the sentiment of a downvote.

This is exactly right @exyle. The more I try to understand the rewards curve, the more I feel like, I CAN'T be understanding this correctly, because this makes NO SENSE. I can get on board with 50/50 split, I'm fine with a downvote pool even though I think regular users still won't use it, but if a few whales do, to stop other whales abusing it could have a positive impact, but having all posts under 12 or 16 whatever the number STEEM get punished is ridiculous. That's the majority of the users on the platform. They want to punish 95% of users to POSSIBLY stop a handful of whales from abusing the system?

Again, I keep thinking "What am I missing? I have to be misunderstanding something"

It just seems like it spells disaster.

Doesn't it always work like that? And it will not stop the whales, nor the bots nor the scam.

The real answer, this change suck and might not get approved by the top 20. SPS financed by 10% of the author/curator punish the essence of the poeple here. People build dapps without it already!

I can't say for the 50/50 because I need to see it in action with the change of the curve reward.

I believe the retention will be worst and not beneficial for the current users. It is hard to get penny and now you will have a heavy tax system already implemented on the source...

I start to lose faith toward Steemit, lack of constant communication and lack of details on specific use cases about HF21!

Oh, it will de agreed on by the top 20 witnesses (at least 17), the @freedom or Pumpkin vote depends on this, and without htis vote nobody gets to be a top witness.

To be fair if member votes become non linear than so should witness votes. That would resolve the @freedom issue.

OK, I'll take your word for it, I just go by the little I read not that I really am in the know.

Good analysis doesn't really fill a little guy like me with hope... getting some upvotes here and there is what keeps people engaged take that away and you remove the essence of steemit.

I agree 100 % with your observations. We already had that in the past and it didn't work.
But the decision is on witnesses. Now we'll see for whos interest they work.
I expect from @blockbrothers some information about names so I can revalue my witness votes when this shit hit the fan.
And with 10% inflation for worker proposal, we'll get 10% more steem dump to exchanges.
Very good for the steem price, not!

SPS= good idea
EIP= bad idea

The EIP is highly speculative and it won't change much, in my own opinion. The EIP is like playing with fire. Might ruin everything.

Downvote pool. Never going to use it.

Whales will. Good luck with that.

Probably they should have a behaviourist on their team, to evaluate such proposals in the future.

SMT token will be game changer foe the Steem in coming years. Let's hope for the best development for the STEEM.

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I wasn't too fussed about the 50/50 but perhaps because my post rewards are kinda next to nothing most times and I thought ok, maybe they know what they are doing

I know you had always had your concerns...
But now that you break it down
That 16 STU ...That's very concerning....
This will be a damper on so many... sooooo manyyyyy

Now I am getting a bad feeling about this... and perhaps understand better Surfermarley's decision to get out ...

I love this place so much, I can only hope the Top 20 witnesses are going to look at the bigger picture and make the right decisions

Thank you for always saying it like it is, and making sense to a non-tech savvy person like me

Thank you for your honest thoughts, I totally agree on most of your points.
Negativity, the right word.
Have a great day
Tom

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Reaching 16 STEEM payout is a dream for the majority of the people...

I agree with you, this new curve will kill the quality comments (people won´t even try to add value to other´s posts). I guess this is the turning point that you talked months ago... We are turning to a business platform instead of content creation.

moment is wow

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i just came to realize about HF 21 happening thanks for sharing all the info

Yeah, looks like the days of earning Steem with your content are coming closer and closer to ending. Luckily there's PAL and other communities now to carry the torch.

nice man

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hellloooo exyle i love youuuuu

This was a great VLOG, @exyle. I have a routine for my days and weeks. I typically watch some world news, The Daily Show, a documentary on some random interesting subject, and your VLOG's. They're easily my most informed content on the current state of Steemit. I have to admit, I wasn't aware of the full breath of upcoming HF21 changes. I share your skepticism and was just discussing the difference between human nature and quantification within a network, versus system protocol as seen by developers. What of the things that has impacted me the most since discovering Steemit is that if incentives are put in positive attainability, people generally allow their better nature to lead.

It took me months to convince @tarotbyfergus to join Steemit. What eventually brought him around was the prospect of making money for his posts. An interesting thing that happened, though, was when he started realizing he could MAKE other people money with his votes. Shortly after that, he began powering up and staking STEEM POWER so that his votes could make other users he followed MORE.

Some of these proposed changed and opaqueness worries me Steemit is going in the opposite direction. I hope I'm wrong. I'm encouraged to do some more research on HF21 now. As always, thanks for leading the community, man. We appreciate you.

**Also, I resteemed this VLOG so now you're sitting right next to two naked ladies on my blog, lol. You're welcome. HAHAHA!

What does "empower oneself" means? Sorry my internet is too slow to show videos

The link you gave onder consider witness here is a dead one?

Thank you so much for participating in the Partiko Delegation Plan Round 1! We really appreciate your support! As part of the delegation benefits, we just gave you a 3.00% upvote! Together, let’s change the world!

Oh wow, nice Cherry Tree!! That was funny about the flags. Yeah everybody gets mad when they get flagged, no fun!

Look at poor little @coininstant being trolled like the bitch he is by an automated bot. Jump monkey, jump!! Good boy.