One thing I believe is important to note in this space is that things aren't as they may seem at first glance. I think @theycallmedan and @starkerz are good proponents with their @threespeak solutions who often mention these kind of things in web2 with often not many around to hear it.
It's weird, feels like the more this technology gets adopted the further it shifts from the core ideas and solutions it was created to solve. I'm not going to get into the whole "what would Satoshi think about Bitcoin if he was still around today" and the forks of it that may or may not be more in line with what the innovation was trying to solve. Although it'd be very interesting to hear his thoughts on Hive as I kind of doubt he thought entry to bitcoin would be this difficult and 99.999% of users having to buy it to use while it only rewards people with mining-specific computers that are out of reach for most regular joes.
Exchanges are the window to access but hold a lot of power. While Hive got lucky in a way to be treated with respect due to certain exchanges being one of the reasons it had to be created, which now turns out to have been for the better that things went the way they did. They mostly just care about money to no one's surprise. If you create a new coin/project you have a much higher chance if you launch it through their launchpads so the exchanges can get a big part of your supply to distribute towards their own coin holders and generate fees from the trades. 0.075% to 0.15% fees may not sound like a lot but trade it back and forth enough times and you have an exchange with a growing amount of stake in your coin that it can sell consistently or at the right time to affect the market and price movement. They're not going to list coins based on how decentralized and in tune with satoshi's vision they are or what the coin is doing, they're only going to consider listing them if they're generating enough volume on competing exchanges to not miss out on customers and fees.
To list tokens without their initial interest for the couple things mentioned above they're going to require you to pay for it. Hive has been lucky to be listed on such exchanges but in hindsight I do wonder how much of the liquid hive residing on them belongs to them and not their customers.
The other great thing about Hive is that active users who understand it enough don't keep their Hive on the exchanges, maybe just a portion to trade with when activity in price fluctuations rises. Someone who's been holding Hive, let's say since its creation on Binance and hasn't traded it but waiting for that 10-50x would have lost out on about 40-50% to inflation by now. Over time as we're creating more hive the liquid Hive outside of the blockchain loses value compared to total supply but at the same time there's a lot of users selling it off as well so it's a question between can inflation and active users here stay powered up enough to beat the funneling back to liquid hive on exchanges. That's something that's not easy to do in this economy.
There are stakeholders who are more elaborate on how they stake hive and don't have to rely on it while there are others who either sell it as soon as they get it no matter the price or in short periods. I don't personally think that's a bad thing, it shows that Hive works and is being distributed fairly in terms of effort and contributions provided to the ecosystem in different ways, but I thought it'd be important to compare to our legacy shitchain and why the price differences may be so similar at times like these.
As @arcange hilariously failed out to point in the hivefest clip and was saved by @gandalf a few seconds later, development on the shitchain has been close to 0 since our departure.
Looking at the log price of Hive and Steem you'd see something like this:
Hive currently only being 3 marketcap spots in front of Steem on coingecko.
At first glance as an outsider you'd think we'd be neck in neck in development, scaling, marketing, etc, but in reality hive is streets ahead. So why doesn't this reflect on the marketcap?
In short, both coins at this time are quite "hidden" to the mainstream "hype", people may think both are failed projects and it's not easy to get traffic to our development or in general anything happening here that's important. It's easy to see that official hiveblocks on x mostly only gets likes from people already here, how few likes hivefest gets while some dumb token2049 gets all the rage while it's filled mostly with people who made it big on memetokens and shilling random coins they got paid for in those coins. We are quite literally hidden in plain sight, close to no one active and understanding of hive has a real presence outside, those who may have had and have been rewarded greatly never bothered to bring anyone here or attempt to.
Hive gets sold a lot more, now this may not seem like a big thing but when daily volumes are as low as they are currently for both coins in question, it might matter. Even the few investors that know the ball is in hive's court and are choosing hive over steem may not be enough to compensate for the sales that happen here. Why does Hive get sold more?
Something many may not realize is that Steem isn't only stuck in development where it was in 2020 but the "bid bot" era never stopped there neither. It's not hard to take a look at their trending and realize it's constantly the same people on there and only those with stake. It's like they bypassed direct vote-selling (even though that still happens a lot) and opted for receiving votes based on delegations. Look at the @tipu account on hive and the one on steem, here there's no selling of votes occurring while there that's all it does. Look at @trafalgar here, no posts while there he's constantly trending, delegating their stake away in exchange for the big votes on a daily post. To put this in perspective, most inflation of new steem is staying with the investors and stakeholders, there's close to no genuine curation occurring so you don't see authors getting a lot of rewards they can sell. You don't see developers getting SBD from a DAO they can sell.
I'm not saying there may not be any selling occurring, looks like Sun sold most of the Steemit stake a few years ago but compared to Hive it's become quite a "proof of stake" chain where content is just a placeholder to collect returns. It'd be like if @ocdb only voted for @darthknight and @blocktrades 90% of its daily voting power while they did a daily shitpost that'd get to trending and everyone else was left with scraps. Honestly, I'm surprised people are still trying there and it's also a reason I get disappointed when I see some continue to provide them with value there by posting genuine content while also being here.
Now don't get me wrong, this selling of Hive is not something I'm against, the inflation of new Hive to authors and curators isn't that much and looking at other coins and garbage out there it's just a drop in the bucket, especially at these prices. I'm just trying to give you a perspective on why the prices may be so correlated to each other. To many outsiders they most likely have no idea of the differences and think of Hive just as a fork similar to ETH and ETC or BTC and BCH and hive is quite unique there because it's one of the few that has outdone its predecessor.
Following up on that, I think it's important to imagine that not everything may be as it seems. A lot of these coins, although hard to kill completely won't be around actively for the next few years. Many new ones will pop up, some more legit than others looking for actual long term change and impact while some just looking to profit a few early investors or founders. Something to be careful of when investing in what you see out there, web2 is generally full of fakeness I've noticed and it's only going to get worse with the rise of AI and cheaper fake activity due to it.
Anyway, that's probably enough text for one post. Appreciate people reading it and leaving their thoughts on it.
When I first discovered Hive 3 years ago, I was enthralled, and for a whole host of reasons. I immediately saw and appreciated its superior technology, as well as its truly incredible potential, and I've been all in for the long haul, giving my all, ever since.
I'm active on 4 sovereignty-driven social blockchains, and Hive still blows anything else away, even though there is indeed some very cool development on them. So far I've made 3 outside investments into Hive, 2 using off-chain crypto assets, and 1 using fiat, and I plan to continue doing that as I'm able over time. Personally, I will never give up on Hive.
Out of curiosity, I created an account on Steem, to take a look around, and see how it compared to Hive. Hive is superior in every way I could see, so I never went back.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this, especially considering the length of time that you're been on the Blockchain. Thank you. 😁 🙏 💚 ✨ 🤙
!DIY
!HOPE
!INDEED
!STRIDE
!WEIRD
I agree with you that things aren't always what they seem. Sure it may look like Steem is thriving do to price but upon a closer look you will see that they are on autopilot, like the rest of Justin Sun's projects. When you look on the Steem projects page, you will find Hive Projects is the latest project made. And the most popular apps for Steem is the dead projects that came to Hive.
The biggest thing that makes us better than any Blockchain out there is we don't need exchanges to thrive. We thrive because we have many multichain projects. And we have developers making more ways to use hive/hbd outside of hive.
!PIZZA
The interesting thing about the SEC attacking Coinbase for staking yield is that it helps Hive in this way.
If exchanges created Hive curation bots and gave dividends to their clients it could create a problem.
We absolutely don't want exchanges powering up client stake.
Also I just realized an exchange could beat us at our own game and allow 1 week (or even instant) powerdowns for their users, giving a real incentive for Hive users to transfer their money to the exchange to get this kind of utility.
I keep forgetting the exchange thing whenever I think about our powerdown times, hmm.
How would they beat it?
Honestly, I'm active here from past 4 years. I'm from the day of
steemit, but things change a lot for me after hive. And I think I'm following you from past two or three years, and I really appreciate what you're doing here. Yes, you've been in a lot of projects and I really appreciate what you are doing And there are lot of other peoples also who do have a huge power, and they do have a responsibility too. But I think you are among one of them who talks to people directly and do listen to them. That is what I really like about you and you to share your thoughts in a while And do listen to people And that is a good thing, I guess. And believe me, you have a good influence on hives as well. I know you are doing that a lot by your different projects ongoing. But I think its time to promote hive of chain May be in a campus or maybe in small schools (we all should do that in our own budget and scale). I am sure that is going to be helpful. Yes, Hive different from thissteemit, In many ways and you explained it pretty well why is that. I am sure in the long we are going to see the difference, the price seems to be almost same at the moment but I think here on hive there is lot of things are developing which is a good thing. But I think we all should think about it if we wany to stay here for a long term prospective and try to support and appreciate those are working on it.Thanks Good day.
yeah as I mentioned price doesn't indicate much, a lot of hive is sold for longterm growth and building things which steem I assume doesn't spend much if any. Schools are definitely important, we have some onboarding members inviting and teaching them about hive and then curating their posts once they get here in hopes they'll stay interested and learn more, but it's not always all about the rewards and there's a lot of advantages to hive that you won't find anywhere if ever.
We can only hope people realize that if "something seems too good to be true" it probably means u shouldn't just sell all rewards u get instantly cause they may be worth more in the future or give you more freedom in different ways.
Damn, it's really crazy that with all the developments going on here we still look like we're neck and neck with the old chain. It's funny even. Lol.
I agree with your analysis, though. But clearly the problem is letting the crypto world know what's going on here, and that's supposed to be easy with our resources. I know that is being worked on, with time things should change and we should start seeing results.
Whenever I see comparison posts like this with Steem, I usually check the price and chart. I'm always surprised at how the price and chart are similar even after all this time. I don't have an account there, and I don't use it, so reading your post and the comments helped explain a lot. I do think putting Hive in at least 1 big exchange can help with our visibility. The other exchanges might offer listing us for free once we get more popular.
The insight that Hive is “hidden in plain sight,” despite its active development and community-driven growth, raises a valid point on visibility in the wider crypto market. . It's interesting to see how market perception and external factors, like exchange dynamics and low visibility, play such a significant role in the valuation and growth of blockchain projects. It's a reminder that while the tech progresses, public recognition and engagement often lag behind.
This is no doubt a great read for anyone following the Hive ecosystem!
The token gap value between STEEM and HIVE is closing, have you noticed? Soon they will be neck-and-neck. Both are terrible when it comes to their values but they are doing something we are not 😞
... to give you a single example. STEEM Perp contracts available on 8 (EIGHT) exchanges. HIVE Perp is available only on one exchange. What is stopping Hive to list HIVE on more exchanges?
They want money to get listed (or connections which Justin Sun and his 2-3 exchanges can arrange), or fake volume which I bet Sun encourages. General sentiment has seemed like we don't want to pay for listings.
From what I've seen, money is mostly put into development and real world advertising such as the rally car and the wells in Africa. If we are doing everything else right, won't we eventually get where we need to be without the listings?
We should yeah, I'd also hope to see people move towards decentralized exchanges compared to centralized ones that can withhold listings unless you pay them which dex's can't afaik. Maybe @vsc will help with making sure hive can be easily traded on different chains.
Agreed. I'd rather see project funds used for things that can't be taken away at the whim of an exchange. For example, let's say we buy a listing then a government decides to try to ban Hive. Unfavorable attention from a country that does a lot of business with that nation could lead to a sudden delisting. Money down the drain. A dex is also a lot more appealing to people who may want to buy and sell Hive should that happen, since they won't have a kyc trail leading to their door.
Perfect! Then we can wait till exchanges offer us free listing and put a lid on our dreams to get Hive anywhere.
I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful here, but maybe those funds would be better spent elsewhere or prioritize pushing HIVE in a different direction as well, not just hand funds out to those who are selling all the minute they get their hands on it.
That's just what it has seemed like to me, @guiltyparties comes to mind as someone being very against paying for listings. I'm not for nor against it, but in general I don't like most exchanges as most are all fake and shady, I'd focus on getting on the big ones if anything but who knows what that price is and what their demands are. Some require "market makers", some require getting paid to generate volume, some require "people to be held responsible if something happens with the chain/coin" which means writing contracts and doxxing yourself.
You could argue that if we had more volume on its own we'd get more free listings cause they'd want a piece of those fees.
I'm not a fan of the last thing you said though, while we should be more careful who we curate on a wide range of things, excluding some based on what they do with their rewards would be a slippery slope. If they're active and contributing in many ways they could sell all for all I care, it's not that much and the effects aren't high in the big scheme of things and in the end those hive rewards won't come as easy later with more users competing for them, inflation being lower and price potentially higher leading to smaller votes which means less stake. So in the end they'd be the ones regretting their actions and not getting back the stake they were rewarded once (compare it to people who bought bitcoin/eth at $1 but sold it for $1-10).
I'd argue those getting "easy/no effort" rewards and holding them and growing large is worse than the example above.
I wasn't referring to curation and I don't want to get into specifics either at the moment.
Fair, at current times the DHF is taking a lot of value compared to author rewards, it being in HBD probably makes it easier to be sold as well.
There's some things I take issue there as well, seeing some accounts socially maneuver their way into extra funding where they're "well off" from HBD extraction alone while they also get hive in many ways while providing little to debatable value in exchange isn't fair to stakeholders being diluted by that activity.
I also think that selling hive is a lot easier than buying it. It's sad but true, for instance many I've talked to tell me "I'm just trading it for x coin so I can ride that all the way up then trade back for Hive" and I keep thinking, okay but will you actually do that when the time comes? Did you do that in the past? The answer is usually no.
Do people still use exchanges? I don't.
Where else would you trade with leverage?
yes I stated that we're only a few ranks above them
and what is that?
I wish I knew, I don't look 'over there' anymore, a lot of it is written in languages foreign to me.
They're doing what I mentioned I guess, only investors are getting inflation while "delegation" services get a cut. It's bid botting without the need to send bids. So compared to here where we have working curation and a lot more stake is being spent on authors no matter their stake or investment, there it's just investors getting the rewards.
Also the DHF has a cost, to develop things we need to pay people, they don't have any development hence no payment necessary (or even possible).
I'd take a lower hive price than Steem any day as long as we're working on the endgame and being fair along the way, the rest will take care of itself later. Outsiders may get tricked by the price, though.
One thing with HIVE is that you can be seen even when starting out. I don't actively look for new people any more but if I find one, I do try to give them some votes and support.
Nothing? I don't look so can only second guess.
As @gandalf stated in the hivefest panel, the only thing they'd changed in 4 years, that's visible on their github I assume, was changing some ram usage/requirement from 64mb to 300 or something. 🤷♂
@slobberchops - let me show you exact changes.
"Latest" changes are for Dockerfile and github workflow
but for core itself it's not even code. Just config.
https://github.com/steemit/steem/commit/8d26f079e4d9b42225e1576064a8b28fe330f955
And yes, that's it.
I thought that chain was basically dead?
I wouldn't know, I don't look.
Neither do I, but once I checked the site like a couple of years ago. Nothing going on. Dead site = dead token?
Okay you might not be able to answer this and maybe I read wrong (I did read that part three times over) but you said trafalgar is stil posting on steem? Why?
When I jumped back onto Hive I also shared the same stuff on steem... didn't do that for long as it was not worth it at all... seemed like just a bunch of chinese posts... anyways haven't been on there in like 2 years... wonder how it looks now?
Also... if Hive is getting sold that must mean that someone is buying it right? My honest thought on that would be that I want Hive to remain as low for atleast till the years end 😅🤣 I'd like to push my bonus into it if it stays this low... recovery is key 🤣
🤷♂
I swear I have the guy as a witness... might be I need to change that right.
nah he doesn't have a witness, afaik he was against the fork and stayed vested in both chains after he received an airdrop for not voting for fake witnesses
Yeah I saw now I was mistaken... don't know why I thought that..
I know this probably isn't your place but can you name a few witnesses that is worth voting for... I got about 15 slota open and to be honest I'm not exactly sure who does what and who is really worth it.. only of you have a suggestion
My own voting is a bit unique, I basically stop voting those who seem "safe" in the top20 then re-evaluate if they deserve my vote again once they drop lower. I then vote for many in the top 15-25 zone and rest go towards newer up and coming witnesses from anywhere between 35-100
I'll be sure to check it out again.. I noticed peakd show more or less on what they work... might be I can find my place with that
A lot of those coins created are not for long term that is true.
Checking from the numbers of years Hive has been around, it will be understood that they're a lot of difference and not just a token that will come and go in a blink of an eye.
With us here, i believe Hive will continue doing more better 🥰🙏
I think if you factor in HBD and SBD which is basically debt so take those off the respective values then Steem drops by $8 million compared to Hive. Then factor in some SL assets and HE assets and Hive fairs much better.
That's a good point, a lot of value is in sidechain tokens here too that doesn't reflect on hive marketcap.
We've gone from a top 10 coin to obscurity whilst continuing to innovate. I suspect that most coins above us are being run by a centralised group who will sell out as soon as they can take a big profit. We have to get Hive better known as I've not seen anything to match it.
As for the 'legacy coin', it can die as far as I care.
Dunno if we should use the top10 occurrence as "something" we've dropped from, it was quite a fluke in my opinion and didn't last long. powerdowns being 2 years and giving you less liquid steem than you were earning with your stake was probably a reason it shot up so high to begin with right after rewards went out for the first time.
Hello, I am practically new to Hive, but every day I am very excited about my participation here, I try to invest in Hive modestly with my profits from the posts, I believe and am in love with this project and I am learning a lot here, right now I do not fully understand what you are talking about but I have a general idea of what you are suggesting, Hive for me is a system that has been reliable so far, if there are things to improve I hope it is to keep us here and for Hive to become prosperous and known by everyone.
It'll continue to remain reliable at least in terms of you owning your account and funds, but the price of it is not in anyone's control.
Thank you for this message, it's nice that new users are learning a lot here, both about other things and hive itself.
Greetings @acidyo ,
Appreciate the information...the clarity...and discussion of the marketplace competition....thank you!
Kind Regards,
Bleujay
As much as I want to see $Hive soar much higher than $Steem, as it should, considering the significant development that has taken place and is still ongoing, I feel that the complexity of this space makes it not so straightforward. Many factors influence the price of a coin, and the more I read about people stating that one of Hive's issues is its low liquidity, the more convinced I become that it's something we need to address.
I wonder if we will have enough resources to work on development, exchange listings, and marketing all at the same time. I doubt we can achieve this at the current price of Hive; otherwise, we will have to proceed at a more manageable pace.
I find Hive as one of the best blockchains that can be hyped and potential to be in the top 20 or top 30 but I don't understand why it is still in the dark area. I entered into the Hive universe in 2021 through the Splinterlands and with a normal blogger like 3 posts on average to write here my collection is now around 7500 which is a great achievement here from a 0 reputation with 0 connections to get votes. I have not sold 95% of my rewards and I have no plan to sell them in the future either! The main problem is that except for some curation projects like OCD, appreciator, curie, curangel, and some others, a new member can never vote for their excellent post unless they have some connectivity in the space. And most of the regular blogger with high vote values they sold their rewards on a regular basis. And the longer winter season is also a reason behind the covering the good projects under the clouds from the renowned influencers in all the social media with the motive of engaging people with shitcoins, gambling-like projects which get too much attention in the mainstream.
I am exploring the crypto world since 2017 but sometimes I find some shitcoins news from some of my friends about investing millions in the common people. Just for an example, 'Hamster Kombot Coin' got so viral in Bangladesh that I was shocked which is a coin generated through the Telegram Bot, and the users are hoping their coin will give them dollars or listed in some good exchange on 26 September! People are talking about it more than any coin like BTC or any in my observation till now!
I think Hive has extreme publicity issues in that sense that can trigger a lot of users for all kinds of benefits that Hive offers which is really insane. I think more the users the more the funds will be diversified in stronger hands and the Hive will surpass it's inflation in it's value to be more stronger. Thanks for your informative blogs with a lot of thoughts to dive.
Why is that a problem? You can't expect rewards just for creating good content if you're not putting in effort as you say to connect with others. It's the same anywhere else but here it's a lot easier to gain instant rewards.
Compare it to youtube or twitter, doesn't matter if your video is amazing and your tweet activity is great, you're blocked to even start generating revenue until you register with them after surpassing certain thresholds.
That's true exactly and I am agree with you. Here, the rewarding is evenly distributed without any threshold.
It is not so easy to get votes for the new users is not always what I mean here, there are tons of curators around most of the community but many new authors get nothing with their good posts what I have seen in the sphere and so they stopped blogging in a regular basis. Though there are thtreats regarding the fake accounts, AI content generations, Plagiarisms for getting votes for those contents. But regular blogging is a great tool to be a genuine blogger here which needs patience which is difficult to observe here in most of the cases.
Comparing any scenario Hive is far ahead in the case of it’s rewarding nature for all kinds of content creators. Thanks for your reply and clarifying me.
While i do find that among a lot of coins that have come and gone, hive is still one that seems to be going from strength to strength, and while the fact that it is a bit of a hidden gem is both in my eyes a gift and a curse,
a gift has it means that people who are actually intrested in this will be attracted to the right place, but a curse as it means we don't get the public spotlight to enjoy the bigger prices that other tokens enjoy
but still im here for the long ride not the short rollercoaster :)
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