I really appreciate hbdstabalizer and the efforts to stabilize hbd and extracting value for the hdf when above $1 and the buy pressure it has on hive as well... all great things.
However I can understand the frustration of so many people here... we have memories of when these posts inundated what some people call the "trending page" (Aka when you look at all topics with the trending algorithm)
I as well visit this page from time to time and I understand the annoyance and wonder if the max $200 a day is worth the poorer user experience how long will these posts stay at the top of the algorithm when they hit 400? Will they be there 3-4 days ... meaning will there be 3 or 4 or even 5 of them on this page? All just for $200 max? Seems so small compared to the 6000+ coming from the proposals.
I don't fully agree on the dislike based on rewards being impacted for users its 400 out of something like 20,000 (while i don't know the real number of what the reward pool gives out daily let's assume that and if that's the case it's 2%....maybe some see that as a big impact)
But also I believe author rewards are high right now because there aren't a lot of authors posting so we get much higher amount of Hive than ever. (The value of that hive/steem has been much higher in the past but we are still getting lots of Hive right now comparatively)
I understand the frustration as well. What a lot of people don't see though is that if the HIVE price goes up, that means there are more rewards in the rewards pool to distribute to content creators. Something to keep in mind too is that original goal of the rewards pool was to reward content that was adding value to the project and helping the value of HIVE go up. Content creators have the burden to demonstrate to stakeholders that all the "content" they are creating is actually helping to drive the price up too.
Makes sense... I think there is a way to make both sides pretty happy with some small tweaks
Yes, it is adding hundreds of dollars worth of value. One guy enjoying the trending page will buy more hive then this initiative will ever earn.
Please either find a way to hide the post on frontends and keep the rewards or stop it completely. Just not worth it.
The return on payout here is around 10-20% (varies as HBD price fluctuates). Ignoring compounding that's 500-1000% per year. If typical content on the trending page were doing that for the past 5 years, HIVE wouldn't be worth 40 cents, it would be worth 40 thousand dollars (made up number, but you get the idea). So, no, I think that is a very hard case to make on the numbers. Do people see content they like on the Trending page and become motivated to buy HIVE? Probably, but not to a degree that makes those Trending payouts a high (or at least, anywhere near as high of a) return overall.
You mean to say after all these years, in order to earn more, all I had to do was earn less? Well geez guys! Why didn't you just say something sooner!
Just messing around...
I see where you're going with this and I won't argue, math.
One thing about people earning a decent amount for genuine content and having that on display is how it then attracts more established acts/brands/names. They like to follow the money.
Snoop Dogg didn't hit up Youtube until Regular Joe was busy making an easy million. We see this now with NFT's as well. Once the mainstream catches wind there's money to be made, they're in.
Of course it makes no sense to become starstruck and plaster massive votes all over big names if they never intend on bringing their existing paying consumer base with them. One big name should be able to bring in thousands of consumers who also get a chance to earn which is something they've never been able to do with their disposable income, when it comes to supporting arts and entertainment. Those consumers. That's always been the missing ingredient.
That math (though I didn't write down any numbers) also adds up so I'm pretty sure HIVE should actually be worth 400k.
I was exaggerating. But it's not that much money for the discomfort it causes. Also, it's easy to hide, so why not do that.
Still worth thinking about the economics here, and maybe adjusting what constitutes discomfort.
If you want Hive to stumble along as a hobby project as long as people want to continue working it, then ignore economics. But if you want the value and resources to go up to the point where it can actually self-sustain and thrive, then sound economics needs a louder and more influential voice than it has had a times. The ultimate goal is not a pretty trending page that hardly anyone sees.
People do look at the trending page. They see a bland post. Not a loud and influential voice. There are a few of you here who when working together form a strong network. Probably the mightiest in all the land and when you want something to be seen, you all work together, and within minutes it's sitting where it needs to be. The number one slot. And there's nothing wrong with that; but if you truly believed nobody looks there, you would have skipped all those steps.
I observed Blocktrades refer to the posts as advertisements. I agree, they do serve that purpose. Advertising is supposed to pop though. As a consumer, if someone kept handing me the same bland flyer over and over on the street, I'd be annoyed. It's all in the delivery. A tidbit of information and a link leading to more detailed information about the project could make up a small but important portion of the post. Then there's the perfect opportunity to include fresh new updates about the happenings on chain; new developments, new projects, success stories. Anything. Something. An opportunity to give fresh new faces some exposure straight out of the gates. Links to new and interesting content found in any of the communities. Then you're killing a whole flock of birds with one stone, plus the general public remains interested, keeps coming back for more, feeling fine about plopping a vote down.
Nobody would complain if the posts had substance. You folks make a strong case and seem quite confident this project will do some good. At a glance it almost appears as if this project wants to make what's so appealing in de-fi farmland look like a little beeyotch. So if it's that valuable, adding value to the posts only makes sense, in my mind. As they are now, in this state, they stand no chance of even being shared on social media. Make the posts connect with people somehow and you damn right they're going to pass it around. Then it's advertising.
I'm sure there's money in the budget and one could delegate the work involved to someone else. I don't want to do it. I'm already tired from thinking too much.
Thanks for your time.
edit: meh.
Here's the less than great experience on the page I was referencing that many users here visit a few times a week.
We'll see existing post values begin to decline as more and more of these posts are published and upvoted. An equal percentage loss on all posts, barely noticeable if token value continues to rise. Everything will eventually balance out.
I voted for both of the posts so far. That means at least two content creators won't be seeing a vote from me. If an account gives more here, there's less to give elsewhere, and that does lead to fewer rewards placed upon genuine content.
Technically yes, there's potential loss. Is it worth freaking out about? Probably not.
The ugly trending page pushes eyes away. Content creators lose out on the added visibility that's supposed to come along with having a successful day. That leads to a small potential loss as well. And of course it's not just content creators losing out due to lack of eyes on the prize. Developers making major announcements for new or improved products on chain take a hit. It's everyone. Some content creators who aren't aware of how damaging over exposure is to their brand also contribute to turning eyes away from the trending page; but at the same time it's not really their fault so many choose to automatically vote blindly.
Trending is like the display window for a shop. Of course you'll see far fewer new customers walk in the door if that display is a complete mess.
Appreciate the thoughts.
Each time I hear the intacacies and conflict points involved with reward pool I keep thinking about how we need a release valve to take the pressure on that reward pool... I would like to see a tipping system provide that.
My tip doesnt impact anyone else... so I hope I can help make a better user experience for that coming up.
It doesn't directly solve these arguments but just hoping for a release valve and thought I'd bring up a semi-related topic haha
I myself give perhaps at least half of my votes to comments as a way to incentivize interaction because content voting is one thing but I wish people did more interaction voting
The only issue with tipping on this platform is the fact most come to make money, not give money. I've been going on about attracting the consumer type crowd for years, since they bring disposable income with them. And even then, voting is a far better deal to the consumer. That turns disposable income into an investment in entertainment or whatever, rather than a cost.
Voting comments is something I've always done. In a perfect world I wouldn't use my stake to vote other posts. I'd create content, entertain people, then shower them with gifts in the form of comment upvotes. It's really no different than offering someone a free coffee. Offering incentives creates competition. Others would have to hold their post earnings in order to take care of their consumers as well. It's such an intriguing business model but most of the potential goes over a lot of heads.
Another follow up I would be pretty ok if they moved this to comments and comments stopped making their way to the "all-topics page sorted by trending algorithm"
Comments don't show up on that page when sorted chronologically it's a page for posts.
So yeah actually seems like a decent solution as long as you don't worry about what small fraction is being taken from the pool
It's already been discussed and I created an issue for it last night.
Isn't it much simpler to have frontends manually "censor" this account? People who are interested could follow it and frontends can easily remove it from the trending page.
It's a general solution to a general problem as opposed to manually modifying the front ends for a one time solution to a specific issue. And from an implementation point of view, it's also less work, IMO.
oh yes, censor. what an absurd idea!
You can still see everything on the blockchain, it won't be censored there.
Why don't you just hide the posts on peakd? It's easy to do.
We need to finally fix HBD and limit the amount of debt HBD can create in a bear market, one idea is to add conversion between HBD and HIVE in both directions (HBD <-> HIVE), and by adding a small fee for every conversion and burn that fee + keeping and perhaps lowering the haircut / debt ratio rule below 10%.
@blocktrades explains elsewhere that whether or how well HBD works it actually a separate issue. As long as it isn't working (i.e. is overvalued), the return on investment of using HBD from the reward pool to buy HIVE for the DAO is extremely high. It's very hard to make a rational case it isn't the best use for reward funds.