But, the difference between states with harsh lockdowns and those without is basically nil. Also, how do you explain countries like Sweden who didn't shutdown at all? At best, it's just delaying the inevitable.
Is this supposed to go on forever? There's never been a human COVID vaccine developed. They're trying to rush one now, who knows what side effects that could have down the road.
Odds are the virus will be here for a long, long time. So people will have to learn to live with it eventually. Living in a perpetual state of fear sure won't fix it.
Of course, people should take precautions. But, as I said before, something like 90% of the deaths are seniors and people with existing health problems (throwing covid patients in nursing homes definitely didnt help anything). Isolate the most at risk populations and educate the rest. Let the rest of us not get our lives destroyed.
The politicization of it all doesn't help either. Riots and protesting are just fine and not causing a bigger spread, motorcycle festival and Trump rallies are "super spreaders" though.
Actually I agree with you! We should learn to live with COVID and navigate our daily lives better so that the economy can be stabilized. In theory that only works when everyone wears a mask to prevent asymptomatic spread of infection (which in turn helps prevent mutation and advancement of the disease), big events post-pone until after the pandemic, public businesses implement safety protocol, people with office jobs are allowed to work from home (you know, instead of being fired), countries go into strict temporary lockdown early rather than later, and homeowners and renters are both given support so that renters do not become homeless (and get COVID on the streets or in shelters) and so home owners also don't lose everything and become homeless, affordable access to testing is implemented, and schools provide education online from home (instead of cramming children together in a classroom so they can get infected and spread it to their parents and loved ones at home).
As crazy as they may seem to people who aren't you or I, it's actually happening where I live. The Silicon Valley (specifically Santa Clara county) has seen AMAZING results from doing most of the things I just listed above. we've had some of the lowest death and infection rates from COVID in our general area than the rest of California (and other heavily populated states). We've really modeled what successful quarantining and lockdown can do for American cities and counties long term in the prevention of widespread infection spreading. I will say my community is starting to get too overconfident and I see numbers rise as a result of people not wearing masks as much as they did before and not socially distancing as much either, but I am confident we'll get back on track for the most part.
A youtuber who happens to live in my neck of the woods made a video sharing her own observations on the success of our area's quarantine efforts:
I'm not from there so I can't really say. But, there isn't really any information I can find that says the lockdowns are really that effective. It's just delaying the inevitable. I guess you could say that is effective in that it will keep hospital beds empty longer if needed. But other than that, I've seen no real conclusive evidence that says it's preventing the spread. If there was stronger evidence to support it, I would most likely support it.
Also, most of America is extremely rural. Big cities will need to be more cautious with these sort of things as it's easier to spread things in dense populated areas. There isn't really a one size for all solution. I'm in Indiana. We do have a mask mandate. It's punishable by law as a misdemeanor to not have one on where required. But, in my area, there's not much virus activity. Some places are enforcing the masks, some not. I was just shopping the other day and at least 50% of the people in the store weren't wearing a mask.
My biggest gripe with the whole lockdowns is all the small businesses that have been screwed over. While big business like Walmart and Amazon are posting huge numbers. This isn't the first time there's been a pandemic. The HK flu in the 60s killed over 100k americans and 1 mil+ worldwide and infected millions more. No lockdowns then.
Actually, the research suggests that lockdowns DO prevent deaths and they DO prevent the spread of infection in the long run.
You can skim over this study if you would like to look at the receipts, or this one, and even this one. NPR's Global Health and Development Correspondent also wrote about it here, and a shorter article written by someone, who's credibility I admittedly cannot verify as much as the other article, can be found here.
Now...Sweden. I doubt you'll get very far in any deep analysis of corona virus when bringing up a small country who's entire culture was KNOWN for being socially distant well before this pandemic happened. Especially one who's death rates are HIGHER than their Scandinavian neighbors who had better legal implementation of lockdowns and quarantine. Also Sweden's economy isn't doing too well even though they never went into a proper lockdown in the first place. All this comes back to my original point: there are health risks involved for ANYONE who catches COVID even if they are asymptomatic so it's dangerous and stupid to think that Sweden is all the better for not going into lockdown early on. it begs the question: What was even the point of Sweden avoiding lockdown when their death rates are nearly proportional to Italy's (the country that's BEGGING for other nations to take COVID seriously and to not make the same disastrous mistakes that they did) and their economy is still suffering?
I don't think you are purposefully being deceitful or acting in bad faith, so I hope this is all helpful and informative to you.
I never said Sweden was any better per se. Just that they werent really any worse off. Of course their economy will not be doing well. The global economy as a whole is kind of in the shitter now. And I'm sure people there aren't going out as much and still being cautious. The issue here is government mandates. If people want to stay inside and not go out, that's their choice to do so. The effectiveness of the government force is what I'm taking issue with here. Not sure how I'm being deceitful.
And you can find just as many studies that say they don't work. Here's a nice little collection of both sides of studies. It's a couple months old, but the point still stands.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/did-the-lockdowns-work/
I guess that's a bit of an issue with it being so politicized. Then there's the issue of how the deaths are recorded.
Btw, from the study you linked. It says countries like Sweden and SK without lockdowns fared as good as the countries in cluster 2 that locked down early on.
"It's just delaying the inevitable" is specifically what I'm arguing is completely false.
The study that said this was published two and a half months before the article claiming that Swedish COVID death rates were proportional to Italy's was published. I'm not sure if anything changed between when the study was being made and when the author of that article was writing it, I'd have to look at Sweden's COVID progression between late April/early may and late July to double check.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/did-the-lockdowns-work/
This was very helpful to read, thanks for sharing! What I gather from the “Lockdowns Don’t Work” section is that Lockdowns aren’t what makes disease prevention a success, it’s social distancing and putting a stop to large gatherings of people. Based on what major medical institutions are saying staying sanitary and wearing a mask helps too but that’s not necessarily what these studies seem to be focusing on.
From my perspective Lockdown is meant to encourage social distancing and get people to stay home when they don’t need to be out and about. A key take away from those studies could be that what really works to get people to do these things is a change in individual behaviour along with a temporary stop to in person meetings at schools, businesses, and events rather than just completely closing businesses and places of operation, firmly telling people to stay home, and hoping for the best. Where I live people very much keep to themselves, are exhausted all the time from overworking, and are stuck in their own social bubbles. All of that was true even before the pandemic so I suppose it’s no surprise that death and infection rates in my area were so low compared to the rest of California when people were already inclined to behave in a way that prevents them from spreading COVID. From what I understand of Swedish culture people behave similarly there, and that could be one of the reasons they were so good about preventing the spread of COVID.