RE: Children Vaccinated At Birth For Hepatitis B in Australia! Why?

[theaustrianguy]

I admire that you give arguments to your point of view - even if I think you are just wrong.

What do you think about this: https://steemit.com/health/@theaustrianguy/the-big-psychological-dilemma-about-the-side-effects-of-vaccines - it's not a long read, i promise!

And what do you say to my answer I posted here?

And finally - what do you say to statistics like this:

Since I am going to be a doctor in a few months I am really curious. I want to understand people like you and help them as well. Of course I will recommend vaccines since I am deeply convicted that they help. But I also want to help kids whose parents don't want vaccines.

So I would really admire a honest answer to my questions! Of course I am open to questions myself! greets

Comments

[teamsteem]

Your graphic is very beautiful but it doesn't show much. Coming from a doctor I'd expect to see more than a graphic showing a correlation.

I totally expect people not to have the same rate of contagious diseases as 100 years ago. I don't know how different should the rate expected to be but I know they aren't supposed to be the same. Your graph doesn't prove anything.

I don't plan on going into the meat of this topic here but I plan on doing so in a post at some points. I'll love to have your comments when I do so.

[theaustrianguy]

You are right, this graphic of course just is a quick overview and not a prove to anything. And you are also right that vaccines are not the only reason for this massive declines. Of course the other parts of modern medicine and hygenie also play a big role.

Bur don't underestimate the part vaccines did. Let's just as an example look at pertussis. In the 1970s Japan temporarely stopped the use of the vaccines. Let's look what happened then.

Here are so scientific articles about it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15889991
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7206322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3508651

I don't think the general medical level or hygenie dropped from one year to another. So maybe it just was the vaccines ;)

Of course I will answer to an article on vaccines if I think I can give value to the discussion. I followed you to not miss it. Would be glad if you do the same, I will also post about this topic for sure.

[jockey]

Great I will be very interested to read your posts when they arrive!

Followed in anticipation! =)

[jockey]

I am looking forward to your post @teamsteem. I will also be interested to hear @theaustrianguy's responses! Upvoted! =)

[teamsteem]

Awesome. I gave a reply above that might interest you. I just thought I'd let you know.

[canadian-coconut]

I am glad that you are being so respectful and still want to work with unvaccinated children when you become a doctor.
In regards to a response to your own post about ... 'the-big-psychological-dilemma...'
I have written my own article here:

We Don't Vaccinate -- Could I Forgive Myself if my Child Became Injured or Died?

Please do take the time to listen to the interview. This mother's heart is breaking that she is the one who gave her child the vaccine that did so much damage.

I assure you that these stories are NOT rare.

[jockey]

WOW!

[theaustrianguy]

I read your post - I don't have time for the 11min interview right now though! I will listen to it tomorrow! Do you have any studies saying that autism is linked to the vaccine (Please don't bring up the revoked one from A. Wakefield ;))

Did you read my post? I think it aims exactly at the problem described in your post!
What would you do in the little story I narrated?

[teamsteem]

There are studies linking autism to vaccines. There are many such studies. I'm not sure why you are asking.

Here are some if you needed some or doubted there was any. I'm not saying the conclusions of them are correct and I know some are only epidemiological studies but there are what you ask.

22 Medical Studies That Show Vaccines Can Cause Autism

“The data sets, graphed against each other, show a pronounced and statistically highly significant correlation between the number vaccines with aluminum and the changes in autism rates. Further data showed that a significant correlation exists between the amounts of aluminum given to preschool children and the current rates of autism in seven Western countries. Those countries with the highest level of aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines had the highest autism rates.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170

Our results show that:(i) children from countries with the highest ASD prevalence appear to have the highest exposure to Al from vaccines; (ii) the increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades (Pearson r=0.92, pb 0.0001); and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3–4 months of age (Pearson r=0.89–0.94, p=0.0018–0.0248).

http://omsj.org/reports/tomljenovic%202011.pdf

Possible causes of GWS include several of the adjuvants in the anthrax vaccine and others. The most likely culprit appears to be aluminum hydroxide. In an initial series of experiments, we examined the potential toxicity of aluminum hydroxide in male, outbred CD-1 mice injected subcutaneously in two equivalent-to-human doses. After sacrifice, spinal cord and motor cortex samples were examined by immunohistochemistry. Aluminum-treated mice showed significantly increased apoptosis of motor neurons and increases in reactive astrocytes and microglial proliferation within the spinal cord and cortex. Morin stain detected the presence of aluminum in the cytoplasm of motor neurons with some neurons also testing positive for the presence of hyper-phosphorylated tau protein, a pathological hallmark of various neurological diseases, including Alzheimer's disease and frontotemporal dementia. A second series of experiments was conducted on mice injected with six doses of aluminum hydroxide. Behavioural analyses in these mice revealed significant impairments in a number of motor functions as well as diminished spatial memory capacity. The demonstrated neurotoxicity of aluminum hydroxide and its relative ubiquity as an adjuvant suggest that greater scrutiny by the scientific community is warranted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19740540A

[theaustrianguy]

I am not saying that there is absolutely no link. There may be, I don't know for sure. But neither do the experts of those studies.

@the first link:
https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/09/17/another-weak-study-proves-vaccines-cause-autism/
https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2010/09/16/autism-causation-and-the-hepatitis-b-vaccine-no-link/
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2013/05/mind-institute-no-difference-in.html

@ your second link, even the paper itsself says: "Clearly, we cannot draw definite conclusions regarding the link be- tween Al adjuvants and autism based on an ecological study such as the present one and hence the validity of our results remains to be con- firmed."

The third link is not even working...

[llball]

Vaccine court ruled in favor of link between MMR vaccine and autism in case of a Harvard Medical Dr. who's child became autistic as a result of the vaccine. This Dr. was involved in neuroscience and his child was involved in a study of his where brain imaging was involved prior to the receipt of the vaccine. So he was in a position that most other parents aren't as he had the before and after images of her brain to prove the damage.

[teamsteem]

Clearly, we cannot draw definite conclusions regarding the link be-
tween Al adjuvants and autism based on an ecological study such as the present one and hence the validity of our results remains to be confirmed.

Is followed by:

A case control study with detailed examination of vaccination records and Al body burden measurements (i.e., hair, urine, blood) in autistic and a control group of children would be one step toward this goal. Nonetheless, given that the scientific evidence appears to indicate that vaccine safety is not as firmly established as often believed, it would seem ill advised to exclude pediatric vaccinations as a possible cause of adverse long-term neurodevelopmental outcomes, including those associated with autism. We have thus provided a hypothesis which we hope will encourage future research into this area in order to resolve the issue of whether or not vaccines might be responsible in some part for thegrowing prevalence of autism in the developed world. Such future research should consider the following: (i) the postnatal period represents a very sensitive phase in development during which the physiology of the nervous as well as the immune system can be influenced and sometimes permanently changed Al is a neurotoxin and a strong immune adjuvant (Table 1), hence Al has all the necessary biochemical properties to induce neurological and immune
disorders; and (iii) autism is a multisystem disorder characterized by dysfunctional immunity and impaired brain function
[17,20,22].Because the current safety data for Al exposure in infants and children is unsatisfactory and because this demographic represents those who may be most at risk for complications following vaccination, a more rigorous evaluation of Al adjuvant safety than what has been provided to date seemswarranted.

I didn't post these studies to prove anything. You asked for some studies and I provided some.

I'm not sure had read what followed what you had quote but the rest of the quote clearly state the concern of the researchers.

The lead researcher published quite a lot of studies since then. Yeah sure I don't doubt you can't find counter studies to her and that's okay.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Lucija_Tomljenovic/publications

[jockey]

Thank you for taking the time to post these studies! I will read them!

Upvoted and followed!

It's great to see more French on Steemit! =)

[canadian-coconut]

I did read your post, and where you are wrong is in thinking that vaccine injury is rare. That is incredibly wrong! I have talked to countless people and heard so many stories of serious injury of many kinds.
I have studied each common vaccine and the risk vs reward, and in each case the risk was greater than the reward under normal circumstances.
Please read this article of mine:

Did Your Doctor Give You the Required Vaccine Packet Insert?

..
I have more to add to this ... but I am going out for a bit so will respond later.
..
I'm glad that you mentioned Dr. Wakefield, as I just read your other comment about him on your own article.
I do have sources other than just Dr. Wakefield...
BUT you really must look at this article of mine. What you have heard about him is simply wrong. I'm sure that you haven't actually read the study that he published. That study never did claim that the MMR causes Autism.

Some parents of autistic people had come to him and his colleagues asking for a study of the gastrointestinal issues that their children had. He was an esteemed gastroenterologist who had published many papers on Chrohn's disease, etc.

Dr. Andrew Wakefield a VILLAIN or a HERO? Here's what the Mainstream Media has left out ...

[theaustrianguy]

How am I wrong about the rate? Do you have scientific statistics that prove me wrong?
Where are your studies about the risk/reward ratio?

And Dr. Wakefield got his license and his publication taken away for good reasons - of course in his personal interviews he says something different ;)

I know that you will not like this post of mine. But I have to look at science and not just personal opinions or a few cases. Otherwise I also would have to say that smoking is no risk for lung cancer - because there are many smokers who never get it ;)

[jockey]

Thank you for posting this! I will read it!

Upvoted! =)

[jockey]

Thank you so much for your comment @theaustrianguy! I appreciate all open and frank discussion. Based on your name I assume you are Austrian. I was born in Austria and I still have my red vaccination book. As you will shortly become a Doctor perhaps you can tell me how many vaccinations babies are given today in Austria. We can compare it to what I received. Perhaps these figures will add to this discussion. Cheers! =)

[jockey]

Thank you for your comment! It is really appreciated!

I think you will be interested in my experiences in corrupting Doctors for one of the world's largest Pharmaceutical companies with the tacit participation of the Government. The behaviour of the Doctors was truly reprehensible and went completely agains their Hippocratic oath. Here is the post:

https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

What will you do when you are faced with a situation like this because I believe it will happen? What will you think of your fellow Doctors when you see them participating in corruption at the expense of their patients?

I am wary of statistics because I have seen corruption at work with Doctors, Big Pharma and the Government.

I did try my best to write my post objectively and tried to pose questions rather than facts. I am sorry if it seemed otherwise!

Cheers! =)

[theaustrianguy]

Thank you for the link - I can follow your argumentation and I am almost completely on your side on this topic. In the past "study holidays" like this surely were not uncommon. But a lot has changed, at least in my country.

The pharma companies are not allowed to offer such packages anymore. And doctors are not allowed to take them. A lot of doctors lay open of what they get from whom and who pays for their studys.

The only think which I don't agree on is the breaking of the Hippocratic oath. I am deeply convinced and know from many older doctors that they just saw those trips as something they could easily abuse. They knew that the studies presented were shit. And they didn't get influenced. They just abused this system and went on a cheap holiday. Their medical behavior did not change. It also would have made no sense to favour a company - all the companys would still pay you anyways, you did not need to use their medicine!

P.S.: Since it is illegal I would of course not attend such events. But money wouldn't change my medical behavior anyways.

[jockey]

I am very glad to hear that! From your posts I believe you have integrity and I respect that! =)

My observations of the medical corruption I described in my post were that if you did not sell enough of their products the Pharmaceutical company did not invite you.. there were plenty of other Doctor's to choose from.

Can you shed some light on the number of vaccinations a child gets before 1 year old in your country? Are vaccinations given on the day of birth?

Thanking you in advance for your input! =)

Upvoted! =)

[theaustrianguy]

Thank you, I am trying my best to help people - I am glad my posts made you feel that way too!

"there were plenty of other Doctor's to choose from."
From what I know today the doctor has the choice. If you are interested in a study weekend you can pretty much choose which company you let pay. But you can not take family or do fancy stuff like maledives. Hotel + the fees of the congress are allowed to a certain extend.

I did not forget your question (I think it was you) about Austria's vaccination plan. But I want to answer with a good post so please wait a few hours. I will not forget ;)

[jockey]

I just want to add something.

You recognise that corruption happened with the Doctors. My post also identifies that this corruption was also happening at a Governmental level.

The Doctor's received a free holiday and had their yearly study quota signed off on by the pharmaceutical company. There was no study just a marketing pitch from the pharmaceutical company. The vast majority of Doctors did not even attend any part of the "conference".

Where is the integrity in that?

As you should know the Hippocratic oath specifically forbids engaging in "corruption"!

If the corruption happened in the past I highly suspect it is still happening just in a slightly more subtle way.

What is clear is that there is a HUGE amount of money in vaccinations. Pharmaceutical companies are publicly listed and their stated goal is to improve dividends for their shareholders. This is clearly an incentive to falsify or suppress information.

If it was illegal for companies to spend money lobbying the Government then perhaps we would see a change but as long as companies can throw money at the Government there will always be corruption.

=)

[theaustrianguy]

I think that many companies tried to corrupt doctors. But I think most often they just took the offers but did not change their medical behavior due to that. I think they just abused the system which offered them free stuff. This is just my personal opinion.

The study week you attend also kinda is an extreme. Most study meetings don't take place in typical holiday areas. Rather in big citys with a good infrastructure. So maybe the doctors you witnessed are not very representativ.

Take vaccines as an example. I know a lot of doctors and grew up with many kids whos parents were doctors. They all got vaccinated. Do you think those parents would willingly harm their kids?
Some may love money. But I dont't think any loved money more than their own blood.
And I also have not seen any serious side-effects in all of those kids.
With my knowledge up to date I also would vaccine my own kids!

[jockey]

Thank you for your response! My own experience was that this was not just a take the holiday and run... My understanding that the free holiday and signing off on yearly study was awarded to Doctors who had met targets! The holiday on the island was a yearly event! These were my personal experiences! =)