The Numbers: Who's REALLY playing?
Some recent numbers were brought to my attention by @mawit07 who had read my previous article and wanted to sum up the numbers today, however the interpretation therein was "optimistic". I appreciate that he read my article and has been monitoring these numbers, kudos and thanks for the tag. Here are the numbers and what they mean.
ACCOUNTS EARNING SPS
These are accounts earning SPS, this doesn't mean they AREN'T bots but the likelihood of them being players is much higher as any account not earning SPS is certainly a bot.
TOTAL ACCOUNTS EARNING DEC
Any account earning DEC but not earning SPS is a bot or alt. So bots and alts account for roughly 66 percent of the player base at least. But....
TOTAL ACCOUNTS STAKING SPS
Realistically the actual player number is potentially closer to 92k as any bot that is in fact stocked with cards and not delegation and is earning SPS will be transferring it to another account for staking. Additionally the vast majority of any human players at this point has SOME SPS staked.
TLDR Numbers Summary: How many people are playing?
Anywhere from 2/3 to 6/7 of players are bots or alts! This is not an exaggeration. Bots outnumber players potentially leaving human players potentially as little as ONLY ONE SEVENTH OF THE "PLAYERBASE". To compare these stats to earlier ones check out my article here
Splinterbots: Bots Inf/vest Higher Leagues
As predicted in my previous post about The Invasion of The Splinterbots, these bots are now inf/vesting in higher leagues. This is due to the fact that card packs are readily available and collection power to advance bots to higher leagues is readily available. Naturally bot owners have flocked to this influx of the cards printed as if ALL ACCOUNTS WERE HUMANS IN NEED OF PACKS. Despite developers and the player base knowing this is a falsehood packs were printed as if all "signups" are players. The majority of players are still bots, as expected general sale wasn't instantly bought up BECAUSE MOST ACCOUNTS AREN'T PLAYERS. If each account was in fact a real person we would not be dealing with many days of general sales, but here we are days and days later. Packs aren't selling due to the small ACTUAL player base being overly-saturated. Consider that this is after (and including) the initial large buys we are at 6 million packs sold. Remember the fear of not getting packs? Remember those bulk sales? Including those MASSIVE buys we are ONLY at 6 million packs sold.
Chaos Legion Arrives, But NOT FOR MOBILE USERS
Chaos Legion arrives and the general sale is supposedly available to everyone. HOWEVER, packs are not available for purchase on the mobile app. THIS IS A MAJOR FLAW IN SALES RELEASE AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. This is a complete failure of a sales launch, purely from this alone. At the very least a notification to buy packs on the desktop website could be published. HOWEVER THERE IS NO ACCESS OR KNOWLEDGE OF ANY PACK SALE WHATSOEVER FOR MOBILE USERS. This is a major flaw. I would recommend removing it from the app store if you plan to not allow pack sales because it would be "too much of a strain for the system", or if it's to discriminate against mobile users and only allow access to these packs for desktop users. Either way this doesn't bode well from both a legal and developmental perspective. Many people in the world only have the means to in fact own a phone, and this is excluding ALL of those people from participating in this sale if they were introduced via the android app (Which seems like a very likely scenario). This issue is known to the devs, and left unattended. Why do I say this? BECAUSE YOU CAN OPEN PACKS FROM CHAOS LEGION ON MOBILE. If these features were added to the app, it's strange you can't buy packs. Chaos Legion packs being unavailable to buy for mobile app users and the knowledge of such a sale not being present in any notifications isn't something that is being done completely unaware. They have added the packs and the cards to the mobile app. Players WERE able to buy Untamed packs on mobile, so having this pack sale NOT available is something that seems quite unnerving. It's quite a mess up or discrimination in user base whichever way you look at it. Below are recent sceenshots taken from inside the Splinterlands app on the app store. This could lead to ANOTHER lawsuit against steemmonsters, with valid grounds ( currently filed lawsuit against steemmonsters here in the court of Pennsylvania currently under way ).
Splintermarket Fall: It's All in the Cards
As many of you have no doubt noticed the Splintermarket has fallen, again, this has been predicted in previous articles ( links here, here, and here). There are numerous reasons for this market collapse, including the overall fall of BTC recently. However, don't be fooled and pass this off as exclusively "being part of the overall crypto market". There are numerous reasons prices for SPS, Dec, Cards, and everything Splinterlands has fallen recently.
- Bots are devaluing player time: The fact of the matter is is YOUR PLAYTIME IS WORTH LESS NOW THAN IT EVER WAS (due to bot v bot mining). For every bot churning it devalues the time REAL players put into the game. Why is this? because of bot rental services it is now cheaper and easier to RENT a bot than to actually play. This means those guild positions you want, and the ranked positions and portions of the DEC pool you are scrambling for are worth less every second bot armies remain active, making it is no longer worthy to PLAY for most players. A lot of players have started doing "rent only tactics" as playtime is no longer worth the time or effort against a tsunami of bots IN ALL TIERS BUT CHAMPION. Bots need to be removed or you will lose all real players to OTHER #play2earn titles that have taken a stand against bots (more on this later). This isn't new, and has been mentioned for YEARS by the community.
- Chaos Legion is Overprinted: Remember the illusionary fomo? remember the threat of packs being unavailable? Despite warnings not to panic. And here we are over a week into the general sale with packs STILL AVAILABLE for purchase from the Splinterlands store. And the card market lows getting lower by the day. Of course these cards will see a bump in price after they finish printing, however this is an all time low due to oversaturation.
- Other Play2Earn titles exploiting managerial weaknesses:
Other titles ( #GodsUnchained being the biggest competition), have displayed more rigid management (not flip flopping on various things after AMAs) and taken a stance AGAINST bots in their #play2earn player experience. They even published advertisements like "#Play2Earn TCG card game without bots. Try Gods Unchained Now". That was almost the EXACT text in their Brave browser ad campaign. This is a DIRECT shot at Splinterlands and #play2earn ers in the cryptospace, as most web2.0 users won't identify with why it has the "without bots" included. It is naïve to think they released this advertisement without taking Splinterlands into account after it's rise to the peak of exposure in the #play2earn card space. They were poaching players with the promise of playing only other players. - More Cards, More variety, Less demand: With more cards comes less overall demand. More cards are available so all cards are less desired due to increase of supply. This doesn't mean older cards are less valuable or new cards are less desireable. This merely means there are A LOT more cards supplying the market, and demand has become the lowest it's been in quite some time. This isn't bad just a market observation.
Voting in 2022: And what ALL this means
If you have been following me you know voting with SPS staked as weight is intended to be implemented in 2022, but because this isn't coming in tandem with bot restriction of any sort it is potentially cementing botting and the way it is into the landscape forever. Regardless of how many REAL players don't like it, newcomer votes will be worth LESS than bots SPS potential on average (Despite those players dedicating much more time and love into the game). Your voice and time to the developers is worth as much as one bot with your same collection power running automatically all day. Despite you being a human being participating in THE COMMUNITY (the real value of Splinterlands), to them your statistics are the same as any bot who has the same amount of money backing them. It is abundantly clear that Splinterlands doesn't want the little guy or time (not wallet) dedicated player to have a fair say in voting OR AN OPPORTUNITY AT GENERAL SALE (Users with less income likely ONLY have their mobile device). Regardless of what you want, the voting is in the bot lords' hands if this plan is enacted. In previous posts I have been more understanding of the botting etc., and I will propose solutions in the next section. However, things are much more bleak this time around. Either all individual users need to start to hoard SPS at a greater rate than bot lords (highly unlikely) or there needs to be a change in the projected roadmap if you are someone who doesn't find bots fun. I propose a solution that isn't banning bots below, far from it... open source botting. I even propose open source botting for everyone, BUT BOTS EARNING FIGHTING OTHER BOTS (not players) is bad for the long term economy. Open sourcing botting to be readily available (but able to be monitored) was the newest solution present but there are previous thoughts (captcha, deck rentals, etc. here)
Emaciated Rays of Hope: What can be done?
The fact of the matter is bot lords are bleeding the game dry of REAL players, and likely a lot of veterans may not notice as they ARE IN THE LAST LEAGUE NOT INF/VESTED WITH BOTS (Champion). This has been a slow poison, but there is still hope to take the TCG gaming crown. However, here are some sparse solutions to this dire issue. (More solutions like captcha and deck rentals in previous post here )
Open Sourcing Botting to be a Button ANYONE can use: The concept here would be that ANYONE can bot any account, but by doing so the game would COUNT THEM AS A BOT (Bot Mode ON or something akin to that). It could be an option next to play, bot coding is already readily available in the community. This way there are no more falsely inflated statistics or pretending like all "sign ups" are people. AND NO MORE BOTS EARNING FIGHTING BOTS AND COUNTING THEM AS "GAMES PLAYED". However this needs to be implemented BEFORE voting is enacted otherwise the control of the game will be centralized to 10 individuals and the façade will be complete to anyone entering thereafter. Then expect policies that obscure botting to be harder and harder to discern, UNTIL a rival gaming company investigates what's going on and uses it to tank the competition by informing industry journalism. It's a cutthroat world. Despite this behavior deceiving the common user any investigation will reveal what is actually happening with relative ease due to the nature of the blockchain. Basically... "It's not a bug it's a feature" mentality and then have it be available to all easily OR it'll be seen as a deception and a reputation blotch. The issue isn't bots fighting players and earning if they beat a player, this could even be a very cool mechanic to the MAIN gameplay. THE ISSUE IS BOTS FIGHTING BOTS AND EARNING AND ENDLESSLY PLUMMETING DEC VALUE FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING THEMSELVES.
LETTING YOUR VOICE BE HEARD: You the community needs to be informed of what is happening and voice you opinions to the developers in the AMAs... EVERY AMA and on hive for that matter. Don't forget to subimit and vote in the support section of the Splinterlands website here too (If you like open source botting vote for 615). At a certain point they can't ignore everyone's voice without the true nature of Splinterlands being shown. Voice your plan to retain human players.
BAN THE BOTS ALREADY: If the bots remain unregulated and an "elephant in the room" part of gameplay, that is both acknowledged and simultaneously ignored despite public outcry in discord, it will not bode well for the game. Splinterlands isn't the only #play2earn title out there.
Before You Say Things or Sell Things, Please Read
THIS ARTICLE IS ONLY AGAINST BOTS EARNING AGAINST OTHER BOTS AND NOT AGAINST BOTS EARNING WHEN BEATING A PLAYER. THIS ARTICLE IS NOT ANTI-BOT IT'S ANTI BOT VS. BOT MINING. This article SUGGESTS banning bots as ONE OPTION to solve the obvious issue of bot v bot mining (open sourcing botting, captcha, and various other solutions provided here and in this article you are reading aswell). The pro of low wait times can be kept IF BOTS ARE REGULATED, but right now the long term cons outweigh the short term pros with the current system. If NOTHING is done for too long removing them all together will be one of the only ways to save face. Please read everything including this section before commenting.
Despite this, the gameplay loop is STILL fun to play, and the developers deserve a lot of respect and admiration for what has been done thusfar. The new cards work well and the gameplay itself is still phenomenal. However in the cutthroat world of gaming business that will not be enough. Other #play2earn sharks are smelling the blood in the water and have positioned themselves for long term market dominance (Microsoft has purchased Hearthstone and Blizzard as a whole as their flagship into the blockchain for example). Even though the Splinterlands developers having an excellent vision for what they want their game to be down the line, they need to cauterize the potential public relations bleeding or we will watch many migrate to another game and eventually they will be saying things like "Remember Splinterlands being the number one game for a while?" instead of just "Let's talk Splinterlands". This game can still go all the way to the top, but not without changes to the current dynamic of at least the mobile application (and preferable botting aswell).
THE PURPOSE OF THIS ARTICLE IS NOT TO:
- Scare you into selling (far from it if anything you should hold on)
- ONLY Ban the bots (This was ONE suggested solution to see the public response I personally like the open source idea a bit better, and here are other thoughts about it from an earlier post like captcha)
- Badmouth anyone
- Slam Splinterlands or the developers (I know I say that your say matters as much as a bot to them, but that's because if SPS weighted voting is enacted this is literally the truth. Regardless of intention, think about that for a moment).
- Promote Gods Unchained, it merely highlights ONE AD CAMPAIGN THEY HAD AS AN EXAMPLE AND THEIR INTENT WITH SAID AD CAMPAIGN. At no point during this article do I not wish for a better future for ALL OF US IN SPLINTERLANDS.
THE PURPOSE OF THIS ARTICLE IS TO:
Get your attention
Inform new players there are bots
Address the issue of bots having the same numeric representation and votes as real players (due to bot v. bot mining), and ask your thoughts
Address the issue of Bots fighting other bots and bleeding dec. NOT BOTS FIGHTING AGAINST HUMAN OPPONENTS. And present solutions here in this article and the previous one here
Inform that the market is low for cards (time to buy?) and factors as to why,
Highlight the potential public relations issues associated with a flawed android app pack release and hidden botting.
Highlight the issue with bots being a "phantom player" false statistic (And the potential ramifications)
Show you #Splinterlands is a game worth your time and will be swimming with the biggest fish.
Show that even though there are different views on subjects, we can discuss them politely.
Pull your attention in for a discussion that is in dire need of talking
Present solutions that have LONG TERM MARKET VIABILITY because bot v bot mining is not helping anyone long term (including botters). (Open source botting and captcha being a few suggestion in this and a previous post).
If you think this article was a hit piece, Anti-bot rant, or doomsday article, I hate to tell you that it's not. There are even pro bot solutions here. I love #Splinterlands and personally have great respect for the thought that has gone into the card game itself and I love the community around it too. It's like othello or chess( easy to learn hard to master and with great depth of play), I am not overplaying it even slightly Splinterlands cardplay is a classic and has been well thought out thusfar. I will continue to play this game, and tell my friends that it's worth a look. Please take this article as what it is: A CALL FOR COMMUNITY DISCUSSION THAT IS LONG OVERDUE ABOUT HOT TALKING POINTS. This article is just to get you guys to be active in the feedback section and to discuss these issues as a community and motivate you to comment and post your solutions. You don't even have to vote for my proposal (615) if you don't want to, but be active in the feedback section and this great community. Thanks for the comments, this section is added to and edited to address questions in the comments. I felt it necessary to show the intent of the article aswell as my intent was NOT to preach doomsday and say there is no hope. Splinterlands can still reach the top, but we need to prepare for a future where larger companies will be vying for the same crown. These larger companies have no qualms about playing dirty or slinging mud. So if you thought this was a hit piece (It's not) that would influence the market enough to effect anything. Imagine what a company that can actually hire journalists/investigators AND WANTS TO HURT SPLINTERLANDS AND NOT HELP IT would do. Just saying.
This Weeks Giveaway: Say Anything (In Depth)
To participate in this week's giveaway and be delegated a random common card for the Splinter of your choice all you have to do is comment on this post. No liking necessary, however you will only be awarded a card for an in depth reply. No "I'm ins" will qualify. Read and say what you think and don't forget to comment about the 2022 roadmap too (more information here). I continue to have hope for Splinterlands, but it is the time for action and not merely hope. The least I can do is inform all of you. And before you comment PLEASE READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-BOT OR BANNING BOTS IS THE ONLY SOLUTION POST. I in fact propose open sourcing bots for everyone to use. Stay safe out there and please read everything before commenting.
Keep Summoning and See You in the #Splinterlands
(Centaur #NFT from Splinterlands pictured above)
I experienced the long wait times for a match when there weren't as many accounts, then often when I finally got a match it was with an account way ahead of me on points, so after waiting it would be loss after loss. So I see the need for bots in keeping the game moving. It's a much better experience not to be waiting and to get matched with accounts nearer your level.
That said, would it be possible for bots to be put into a position where they only come into play when a human player comes in needing a match, rather than them battling each other when there aren't enough players around?
With regards the Chaos Legion packs, as blitzzzz says, I'd be more concerned if they'd sold out as quickly as people feared they would. Going for months unable to buy packs due to under supply isn't a great look. I was disappointed when the Dice and Untamed suddenly flew off the shelves just as I'd saved up enough to buy some. At least this time smaller accounts might have more chance to buy some.
Firstly, thanks for your reply. I'm stoked I got you to participate in this community discussion. Checked you blog out and gave you a follow too. Let me know what faction you would like your RARE card delegation.
I detail in this post "Open Sourcing botting" which would do what you talk about (bots only playing players) and everyone benefiting from it. There are other solutions in a previous article linked above also (Captcha, full deck rentals, etc.). This one introducing trying to get the community to suggest a solution for the issue of bot v bot mining. Open sourcing bots (for at least statistic purposes and to stop bot v bot mining WHICH IS THE REAL ISSUE NOT BOTS AS A WHOLE NECCESARILY) plus the coder gets a little bit of the pie IF HE DECIDES TO WHEN HE ADDS IT TO THE CODE LIBRARY. This benefits botters, bots, bot coders, AND players. I mention banning bots as an alternate option long term. Because the "phantom player" stats are potentially very large and to be short... not good. Banning might not be the only solution. Submit your solution in the feedback section on splinter lands (link above). You also don't have to vote my my submission (615) but I have submitted that suggestion in tandem with this article.
I also am happy with the fact that chaos legion isn't selling out right away, GREAT TIME TO BUY FOR NEW PLAYERS. But it isn't selling ON MOBILE APP WHATSOEVER, and you wouldn't even know new packs are out. MOBILE APP ONLY USERS ARE POTENTIALLY NEW USERS OR INCOME RESTRICTED PEOPLE THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO USE A COMPUTER. Which is flawed from a sales release perspective however you look at it, the app needs a redo or at least a notification to redirect. That wouldn't be too hard they have one for SPS etc.
I think now is the perfect time for comments such as this one, and this discussion in general. As added in the "please read" part that has been added to answer comments. Now is a great time for real people to buy. This game is phenomenally fun and everyone should take part if they like it. Don't get me wrong, I love Splinterlands.
Thanks again for the comment, and let me know which splinter you would like your RARE card delegation? Kudos, Cheers, and have a slice of !PIZZA
I responded a bit late at night and forgot to add my thoughts on the mobile app not selling packs. I access splinterlands on a mobile device, although I should clarify that it is a small tablet, not a phone. I play from two accounts, one via a browser and one via the app, so I merely change to log in via the browser in order to by packs on that account. I also have to do that to claim my SPS. So while it's awkward, it's not impossible to do on a mobile device (I've also discovered I can access a browser via the keychain app). It would, of course, be preferable if it could be done on the mobile app, but then they've always been behind on updating it, which isn't ideal considering the high percentage of people using mobiles for nearly everything now. Someone a while ago said more people access Hive via a mobile device than a desktop.
I go with Fire. I think I need to look at strengthening that splinter, but I'm still figuring out the best approach.
Both sides have their valid arguments.
@smokelord @cryptoniusrex
The best solution probably lies somewhere in between.
No one wants to wait for a long queue, and yet, no one wants their pool to be diluted by an incessant swarm of 24/7 bots.
The packs were supposed to last a year, so having this amount being sold thus far seems to be in line with their plans - no qualms about this here. I would say it'll have been disastrous for everything to have sold out on Day 1, considering the advertising push in Thailand, we could expect an influx of signups from S.E.A if that was successful. As a new player, I would HATE to not be able to buy packs.
As @maladroitest mentioned in his comment, a Captcha could be implemented, but not for every single match please, but for accounts which have played countless games for hours on end. Or at a certain ECR% level, say <50%, then captcha kicks in for every game.
This could be a good balance, some bots are allowed, but not to the extent that they farm 24/7 and dilute the DEC pool completely. (I mean, its ridiculous that ANY human player would be farming for a 0.1 DEC payout/win in Silver/Gold League)
Hey Blitzzz, so happy to see your comment dude! Rock out and have a slice of !PIZZA on me. Thanks for the comment. I AM ALSO HAPPY ABOUT THE PACKS AS IT'S A GOOD ENTRY OPPORTUNITY. I just mention market lows. Rock on, and I think you should check out the link to my previous bot post in the article above. Let me know what you think about it. I submitted a proposal (615 for open source botting) in the feedback section of splinterlands. You don't have to vote for it but if you don't please submit your own solution for botting long term. See you out there. (let me know which splinter you want for your common delegation) It'll be a rare if you comment what you think on the other post too.
I agree with this post! It's not so much the unfairness of bots, because they are beatable as are players of lesser skill level. It's the sheer number of games they play depletes the reward pool and reduces the amount of DEC earned each match for ZERO effort of the owner of the bot. THAT is an advantage, and why would they not duplicate the bots to an infinite level? It's free money.
The solution is simple. Just put a Captia on the battle loading screen that has to be solved before you can select your team. Yeah, it will suck to spend the 5 seconds to complete it, but it won't suck as much as the effect of the BOTZERG that has been eating the newer player base.
Thanks for the reply, it means a lot. Which splinter would you like for your delegation?
I actually suggested using a captha in the link provided to my previous article here. Thhe Captcha solution has been suggested numerous times by various people in the feedback section and is met by a plethora of downvotes each time despite most people being for it in most discords etc. (weird?). My open source botting proposal is 615 but I'm sure Captchas are also back up there somewhere too as the idea is popular and supported. Go to feedback.splinterlands.com and check it out.
Keep Summoning and See You in the #Splinterlands
I always dabble in the Neutral for my favorite splinter, and I think it's the splinter that needs the most help. I'd like to see a Neutral summoner come out. And yes Captcha is unfavored due to the delay to solve, well that and no one likes captchas. There are other means but I'll just keep plodding through the botswamp I guess.
This post captures my sentiment beautifully. I am not in the game to make profit, but I do want more than playing vs a computer. I am absolutely up for banning all bots. I imagine a significant number of games are bot vs bot - what a complete waste of the DEC pool.
I started playing last November, when 100 DEC was worth $1. It feels so bizarre that the value of DEC has crashed so significantly, especially since it is supposed to be pegged to the 1000 credits.
I don't mind the idea of the captcha, even one every few minutes might be enough.
My food for thought: at least playing bots, you learn the cards they play and in what order. Makes it easier to try and beat them.
Clarification:
Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you liked the post. Bots at least train you this is true, there is that positive aspect. But the long term negatives are not worth it.
Which faction would you like for your 15 day delegation?
If you believe the bots are that drastic in numbers then banning them all together would be catastrophic for que times. Were talking 5-10 mins or more to get a match if you ever get one. Wouldnt that also destroy player retention? And sps weighting would also remain the same because the bots collecting sps would still have the owners collecting the same amount since they would just push the collection power back to them since it is their assets and they would still be getting the same amount of sps / voting weight. I understand your frustration but you are beating a dead horse. Bots are needed and hopefully one day we will get a bot restriction in terms of their earning capabilities per battle. Also you posting these doomsday posts will do nothing but scare aware potential players or existing ones that are easily persuaded that the end is nigh. This game has been around for 3 years. Also to your point on packs not selling....we sold almost 7 mil already. They designed the amount of packs to last a year. It would be dumb to create a new pack set that is so scarce it sells out immediately and then leaves only the secondary market to sell them for 10x the price. The devs have done great with this game imo. And incase you have missed it, crypto is down like 50% so the mania is gone and people are in risk off mode. I think you need to pump the brakes and let the devs do what they do best and run this game the best they can. In the end, this game is not a job...its meant to be fun with the aspect of being able to earn on the side. Which is still plenty possible. If you are a player just comes here to leech off low leagues...it wont be fun because thats what kills games. Just my opinion though.
Also, I think it was you that posted where the Splinterlands proposal website is. Did you put the bot button out as a proposal? I'd like to vote it up. And I have a proposal or two of my own. Thanks!
Oops. I meant to add that in response to my own post.
I did number 615
Hello, first of all, Thanks so much for commenting. It means a lot, genuinely. Which splinter would you like for your common? I hope you take this response lightly aswell as it's meant for discussion.
Second, I am wondering why your comment is portraying me as if I want the removal of bots as the only solution? In my "what can be done" section my first solution is actually radically pro bot (open sourcing botting for everyone to be a part of). Merely adding the transparency of whom is a bot or not. I in fact have a proposal(615) in the feedback section on Splinterlands. I know you might have read one section and then felt the need to comment on one aspect of the article. That's awesome, I'm very happy I motivated you to voice your opinion and generate a community discussion. But you understand how I must mention the way I stand on botting is actually not anti-bot specifically. I'm moreso against botting without transparency and bot v bot mining. What do you think about this solution that isn't banning? Share a complete comment and I will throw in an extra delegation of a rare card for 15 days (faction of your choice).
In my previous posts I offer solutions as alternatives to botting that are profitable for the asset owner and offer long term benefits.
I agree 100 percent with that I am happy they aren't selling out right away so people can get in on the action. I mention that it is a market low for buying or selling cards some people see that as good news. Others bad. When really it's neither. However either way it is a factor overall.
I'm not ok with the fact that mobile ONLY users (a large part of which have potential income far less than livable) might want to spend 4 dollars because they love this game (Which is a lot of money for them) to buy a pack. And right now not only can they not buy them in app, there's no info popup whatsoever as to what is going on with packs OR ANYTHING aside from a little popup talking about the "Release of SPS" which happened months months ago. This could've been solved with a similar popup saying to go somewhere to buy packs outside of app, this is moreso about that error (ideally not intentional). But it is distressing that packs and cards are released, useable, and openable on mobile but mobile users can't buy them nor know what's going on without outside research (that shouldn't be the case).
I was mostly mentioning packs not selling out as fast as they were hyped up as a lot of people WERE thinking it was going to sell out within a day or two (Despite me saying it was unlikely and even if that were the case there were options to get packs at fair prices beforehand link in post above ). This is the time for real players to get in the game if they wanted, and if bots keep churning out resources they will keep making more bots with the cards they acquire. And new players (particularly app players) will not know this is happening and just see "sign ups" that aren't really players without understanding what is happening, if they know about it and hop in it's a different story. This is why it should be transparent and even a revolutionary feature of gameplay. Not an elephant in the room that new players are in the dark of at first, or entirely.
Wow. Thanks for the informed and clear article. I was shocked how obvious the bots were the day CL came out. It’s harder for me to recognize now, so I appreciate the devastating numbers. I like the idea of an opt-in bot mode, but how would that be regulated? Would there be some incentive either way - to be transparent about bottling or not?
Also, the scale of CL makes much more sense to me now. I was wondering f how they could have devastated the market. On the one hand, people will be able to enter the game for a long time to come. I’m grateful I have been able to buy my way up to silver 2 abs I may get to silver 1, which would have been impossible without the available affordable cards. But will prices rise again? Or will the market be flooded for way too long?
I’m grateful for your information and reflections. And thanks for the giveaway. @squishna
Thanks so much for commenting and being a continued viewer of my content. Seriously. Glad you liked it! I am also grateful for the opportunity for new players to buy, this was just observing the market low. Not saying it was bad. Which Splinter would you like for your delegation?
Thanks for continuing to put out valuable and thoughtful content. Let’s do a dragon delegation. Thanks.
I'm a very new player here, i started less than 4 months ago, i'm new in the crypto space and this is my first earn to play game, thus take my opinion with a grain of salt.
The bot issue was one of the first that i considered before entering splinterlands. I totally bought the narrative that, considered pros and cons, bots aren't detrimental to the economy of the game, and i still believe they are not.
Nonetheless, i believe that you have a good argument when pointing out that humans time is worth less because of bot's competion, but my friend, this is a world class problem and wont be solved with prohibition. I doubt even it could be solved with the "bot mode on" button, at least it wont if there will be incentives on having a bot running on a "bot mode off", however the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" motto seems very appealing to me.
I also believe that the shark you mentioned are very real and splinterlands haven't faced them yet, but i'm confident that the bot issue will be seen with less disgust when in the very near future they will be more or less everywhere.
That said, i disagree with your data interpretation, i personally know 6 more proper humans who plays this game and i'm sure 3 of them doesn't stake sps.
One of them change everything in credits, another one change sps for dec in order to have more sps airdropped and the third one is just too lazy. All 3 of them are extremely new players so it's not a representative data set but i don't count them as bots.
Last but not least, let's assume your data interpretation is correct, let's cut the numbers even more to 50k proper humans, how many were they 1 year ago? and 2 years ago? As you said the gameplay is fun and profound, the new set works properly even if the CL cards seems overpowered to me and we all still have to see a proper marketing campaign.
Anyway TYVM for pointing out the problem in this deep way, u gave me the opportunity to rearrange my toughts in a more tidy manner.
Hello, Thanks so much for commenting! it means a lot for this article to inform a new player and have you articulate your thoughts and participate in this discussion.
The issue here isn't Human vs Bot. The issue is bot v bot, as there are bot farms designed to "eat" other bot farms and essentially farm dec for little to no effort or investment. And in turn farming VOTING POWER for Splinterlands itself. As a bot beating a bot can happen 100 percent of the time if you are the programmer for both bots and run your massive "farms" at the same time to feed from each other. I even suggest open source botting in this post (I'm not anti bot I'm anti depreciation of player time being valued for everyone), to at least be able to monitor it and not have bots vs. bots. Or if so have it be in another pool perhaps.. who knows.
The data is variable, it only suggests that potentially as many as 6/7 people, but likely 2/3s of people are bots. Quite frankly if the transaction were investigated with a fine tooth comb you or I could BOTH be optimistically interpreting it... or not. The issue is the opacity of it, botting will always be present. Which as you pointed out is a part of the world we can't get past. Developers can choose to embrace bots or push back against them, but either way they need to at least inform the newer players of botting as an element of the game. Of course there are more humans than many years ago in alpha, it was in alpha. No one is saying that there aren't human players. There was a time the "real player base" didn't even hit quadruple digits, it's way more now. But should we act like bots are people and inflate the numbers? also no. I agree with you on many of your points, and appreciate the comment immensely.
We will see what happens and what the player base decides. Submit your feedback at feedback.splinterlands.com Which Splinter would you like for your delegation?
thx for the answer, now i get your point more clearly.
i checked the feedbacks about bots and they are more or less all the same and pretty old, i wonder why i cannot see your proposition right there.
To have a opensource bot mode on/off seems feasable and very good looking from a marketing point of view.
Nonetheless, i still have some doubts about:
do you see a differentiation in the matchmaking to have only bot vs bot and human vs human? that would be bad for the waiting time
do you also see some kind of rewards debuff for the "bot mode on"? that would be an incentive for running a bot in the "bot mode off", and will start an already lost tech war against bot developpers
IMHO, without the aforementioned two features, the open source "bot mode" won't be effective, and with them could even be detrimental to the game ecosystem.
OFC those are just my opinions and i'm totally open to make up my mind with the help of your toughts.
About the delegation, whatever you prefer my friend, even none, i'm much more interested in your point of view. If from that can come out a good proposal i will take any effort in order to support it, because i totally agree with you when you say that a transparent and clear policy about this issue is a must have for Splinterlands and any new p2e.
You wouldn't need to separate players, just have bots running at a constant but when they encounter another bot they receive a "null" response. Again, this is about the transparency at least, quite frankly it's not an awesome situation as a whole. I don't act like i have all the answers, but I do think the community should submit what they would do to change the situation or allow for more transparency. Thanks again for the comment. Read more about the proposal at feedback.splinterlands.com (615). The coder could take a percentage if he so chose, and I imagine there would be a formulated incentive for having bot mode on (or some sort of added benefit).
The alternative would be to crack down on bots that don't submit their coding open source, I mean. It's a full on bot endorsement, you just have to submit it to the library and potentially make money off your coding (or submit it to the library but have it be private to all but developer eyes perhaps).
The issue with bots is no one has really come to a fully fledged middle of the road solution, open source botting has the potential to be that solution. With community suggestions like yours. The BOTTERS CODERS would need to see if it appeals to them and speak up for this to work also. They could be making royalties on the innumerable robots using their code if they chose (at a percentage they would set). This financial cost potentially would serve as a determent for many using (or stealing) a coder's code to run a bot and using it 100s of thousands of times potentially.
At the very least it offers transparency, the financial reward would likely be a percentage increase (to be calculated) if the bot won versus a player. As they would ONLY be fighting players, but then this starts to become an active effort to combat bots. Players would try to make bots that "beat the system". Not the previously open-minded attitude allowing all bots. I appreciate the discussion. And the opportunity to lay out my thoughts and develop these ideas as a community and get everyone thinking. Even before you mentioned it incentivization is present in the article for the coder, but it is interesting to think that the botter should be compensated. The botter gets compensated in HIGHER PER WIN VALUE FOR ALL INCLUDING PLAYERS, but thinking about it like that feels weird. They lose their passive earning on innumerable bots, and would likely proponent for a passive staking earning for "bot mode on". Everyone needs to discuss issue as a community and at least make new players aware that anyone in ranked COULD be a bot with little to no regulation. I don't envy the developers position, there aren't easy solutions and likely none that make everyone 100 percent happy of the more difficult ones.
Cheers!!BEER !PIZZA and enjoy your delegation. The proposition is 615.
Thanks for sharing! - @alokkumar121
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I made my point about some of the flaws here and unlike you I have been much less generous about open sourcing bots as a valuable solution. To be clear: you made your point, but if you value the community factor as much as I think you do, then open source bots isn't a solution.
I instead agree with you on over-printing which is based on the false perception of player abundance (and I believe there is no malice), while in lower leagues you end up playing most of your battles against Liang-xxx, Stl-armxx, Stl-rusxx and so on. It's not even fun beating them. Overprinting also forced the raise the limit for granted drops on any new one; why? simply to force hoarders to buy more packs and give again the perception that they are selling fast. And also to grab quite a lot of money in the process, sure.
I see messages on discord about worry on releasing summoners in airdrop due to a lot of packs not being opened yet. Really? Weren't you thinking about that when you put out 15 millions packs? And if you didn't, your ready solution is to make people pay more?
Do you know why this is going to be a problem? Because bots will get them. If it was players they would sort it out with tactics, like they do against the various Yodin and Llama.
Hello there. Thanks for responding, I'm jazzed my post got you to speak out here and comment. Rock on! I agree with bot removal if they aren't at least monitored, 100 percent. The reason I have adapted my position from other more no-bot solutions in previous articles here and here is quite simple. The reason my position has changed is that I think the developers will NEVER ban bots or have the follow through to say something larger investors might be afraid of despite it meaning greater value for everyone, pardon my pessimism. This solution at LEAST no longer has inflated bot numbers looking like "players" and allows the opportunity for regulation. Botters still bot, but don't bleed the value of the currency they are mining and endlessly inflate it in a very short term mentality. I would love for there to be not bots at all as an alternative. In the post above I suggest BANNING BOTS ENTIRELY also, I attempted to have a small variety of solutions without retreading old water from my previous articles (including captcha solutions and deck rentals).
Nice writeup, I would've upvoted it if it was more recent. For your in depth comment without pulling punches which splinter would you like your RARE card delegation sent to for 15 days?
I think the bot issue is something that should be tackled, but I don't feel the dooms-day scenario, that article is trying to give off. The author's most likely feeling the shock of the entire global market crashing, and is trying to let it out on SL and spread FOMO...or he's simply promoting for God's Unchained, since he does have a segway where he goes on about that game for a bit. #possiblepromo
In either way, the article does have some interesting points that are worth delving into:
I actually think the idea of adding a simple captcha is so minuscule a change, however, incredibly effective at deterring the bot accounts and throttling them in a controlled manner. I really liked one of my guild member's idea, about not making the captcha before every battle, but rather every 5 battles or so. This would also grant the devs the ability to crank up the throttle on bots even more, if in the future, there was need for this. They could increase the rate maybe to every 4 battles a captcha. Or if things ever became too rampant, even bring it up to every 1 or every single battle. And I do feel the DEC rewards would become more meaningful than they currently are for real players, if the bots became more manageable. Because if this game wants to be sustainable and keep it's fans for a long time...or even forever, then there must always be more humans than bots in the game...at least once we've reached a solid number of real players. Until then, the bots do offer faster queue times, and aren't all doom and gloom.
The mobile version of the game definitely has to evolve, and preferably become the more enjoyable format to play. All the features of the desktop version have to be integrated and offer a sleek mobile optimized interface, without sacrificing anything (there's actually no need for this, as an app can be setup to interface with anything, with the proper coding, even a blockchain). So the remark that CL packs weren't available in the mobile version is a legitimate point of critique, though I would counter that all people that wanted to buy packs badly enough, found a way to access a desktop to buy them. But access to packs (and all full features) within the mobile version would be a welcome change, especially since I prefer playing something like Splinterlands on mobile. At the moment, it only serves doing the daily quest and grind though, since all other aspects of SL, I need to jump on the desktop for.
But all the criticism of the pack release and so forth is a litte too much for me. I think the release, pack numbers, etc. worked out great so far. The cheap legendaries and epics are a welcome sight in my opinion. :slight_smile:
But why does the author cite for us to go to feedback.splinterlands.com and create a proposal, rather than creating his own, that the readers can go upvote (if they agree with his sentiments). Seems a bit counterproductive to me. :thinking:
All in all, this article does not give the Splinterlands devs team the respect, they no doubt have earned from their player base, for being always transparent and open, as well as keeping the community involved, and part of the development process. Their company policy is outstanding in my opinion, and some of the really big gaming studios could learn from this process, of involving the player-base in developing their games for the better . cough EA Sports FIFA cough
This article is thought provoking though, I'll definitely give it that. It addresses a prevalent problem in the game, that should be dealt with in one way or another in the future.
Before anything else. I suggested a captcha in a previous post and thought people would click the link to view it that would do something to (all those places I say click here for additional solutions from a previous post is said article). However despite how many people think a captcha is a good idea, every time it goes to feedback it is massively downvoted for some reason.
Thanks so so much for responding, I have respect for you as a card player and have enjoyed my matches against you in ranked and tournaments (often enough suffering defeat but always having fun). And you raised good points in your comments about scaring people, so I added a little section for people to read before they get the wrong idea in what I want this article to do.
The purpose of this article was not to just be doomy and gloomy (however I did want to get people's attention), but what I wanted was to have people speak their thoughts on this and have it be a public forum of discussion. And for such a good response which splinter would you like for your random RARE delegation for 15 days?
I added a section based on replies to preemptively answer and questions and sort of also explain how the article was not meant to knock the pack sale numbers (or the devs) or how many packs there are. And clear up some things about the intent of this article for those reading it. You have no idea how much I appreciate the feedback and comments.
I created a proposal actually also (615) if you want to vote on it, but I didn't want to seem like I was only promoting my proposal in this post (but I have since added it to this post as per your suggestion) this was to have the community submit their own solutions. Not mine alone. Submit what anyone thinks will work for player retention. I also added a section to clear up my intent in this article aswell, I wasn't trying to be a doomsday preacher. Overall I have hope and love Splinterlands (read my little section where I talk more about how much I respect the development and though into the gameplay) but think botting shouldn't be a "phantom player" statistic and more people should participate in the feedback section. Whatever your thoughts are.
I think continued transparency is important, and developers being active with the community is a good thing. However I think they should hire a PR person for the projected future of the project (The Biggest Leagues, because I believe the game itself is worthy of being at the table). If botting was transparent so that anyone hopping in (web2.0 users new to hive etc.) would know what they are jumping into, then maybe they would be even be more into it because of that fact. Rather than finding out about it later through their own research and potentially being soured or feeling tricked. This is a matter of perspective, as personally I don't mind bots as opponents. HOWEVER, It's when bots fight bots. It's the perspective of bots fighting bots SHOULDN'T make income. Bots fighting people should have that income potential and is a part of the game that is unlikely to go away. And if bots only earned when they beat a person that is more than fair. Bots should just not earn against another bot at least.
Again, I'm super appreciative of your reply and have nothing but respect (on and off the battlefield). Let me know which splinter you would like for your rare delegation. You earned it by saying your thoughts concisely and not pulling punches. Feel free to comment on this comment too, as the overall goal of this post was discussion.
Thanks first of all, for taking the time to write up such a detailed response to my post (that's not a given nowadays).
I will also have to at this point apologize for the tone of my post coming off as very negative and anti, because I believe you were very brave for voicing your opinion and showing that there's an element in the game, that has to be carefully monitored and preferably even "regulated" (even if it's not the most DeFi way to go about it). I just felt the original portrayal gave off a negative vibe...but I believe now at least, that you were merely polarizing to get eyes on the subject, and you surely accomplished that good sir. ;) This has been the talk of the Town (Hall...literally in the last one haha, not too shabby friend).
When next, we shall meet on the battlefield, we shall greet eachother as equals and brothers in arms. 🤜🤛
Don't worry about the rare delegation bro, but I do thank you for the offer...I'm sitting at Diamond III's doors organically since last season. Feel free to give it to someone else on my behalf though. I'm sure someone can use it more than me.
Good on you for revising the post and adding your feedback.splinterlands link, I believe that will be the best way to funnel people to your feedback suggestion. I'll go check it out and give it an up-vote, if it's for introducing a captcha. Very clever idea?
I do think bots are an issue, for the reasons you outline above, and especially for keeping new players engaged (and even buying a spellbook). I don't think banning bots is feasible anymore, though. It probably should be "regulated": maybe requiring the captcha as you suggested or a declaration of whether.the account is or not a bot. And then giving the choice of battling just humans or humans and bots.
I like your idea of the choice between two que pools. Very interesting. Thanks so much for commenting and engaging in this community discussion. I agree that banning bots is likely unfeasible at the current time. Have a slice of !PIZZA too. On me. Which faction would you like for your delegation?
Now I feel like a total noob 😳 what is faction?
Thank you for your reply!
By faction I mean Splinter, ie water, fire, death etc. Cheers !BEER
Oh, forgot about the delegation :-) Send whatever card you find nice to play with - thanks! And what do you think of today's announcement of changes in rewards etc.? Persistir, I think it's a step in the right direction. But did you notice they avoided mentioning bots? "How to address the boot problem without saying there's a bit problem."
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Very true and well worded blog..I also hardly play due to Bots