I've owned and operated guns for many years and am licensed to do so. My unrestricted license permits me to own every type of firearm from shotgun, rifle, revolver, semi-automatic handgun to black powder, paintball, gel-blaster and everything in between. Like most I'm not permitted to have a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun though, the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 in which 35 people were killed put an end to the ability to own semi-automatic rifles in this country - They are permitted for certain people only. That's ok, I can live with that.
That event brought about great change to firearms laws including a gun buy-back scheme in which people would hand in their non-compliant guns in return for a fair price. Most received more than they paid for the firearm in the first place. The guns were thrown in huge piles and destroyed. I, like most others, dutifully complied and handed in guns for destruction despite it breaking my heart.
Part of those reforms revolved around firearm storage and in the intervening years the storage requirements have become even more stringent, a condition I don't have too much of an issue with.
6.5mm Creemoor on left and .22 CZ 515 on right.
Here in my State the storage laws are quite straight forward. Depending on the number of guns a particular grade of safe is required, the safe must be fixed to the building, so bolted from the inside to the floor or walls, unless it exceeds 150kg in weight with no guns inside. That seems pretty straightforward. The grade refers to the thickness of steel used, it's locking mechanism and so on.
That's for rifles and shotguns. If a person also has handguns like me then a higher grade of safe is required. Again, as the number of firearms increases so does the security meaning the addition of monitored alarms and security cameras and so on.
I agree with the storage laws and think it's better to have guns locked in this scenario than leaning in the hallway or stored in a lightweight locker or some such cabinet.
Furthermore, ammunition is not allowed to be stored in the safe with the guns. Again, I'm ok with that. It means a thief can't easily get hold of both and a looney-bird gun owner can't so easily grab guns and ammunition in a fit of range and shoot someone. Great.
I've got a lot of guns, let's call it somewhere between one and way more than one. I have to have a fairly high level of storage and security and I take it seriously. As part of having a firearms licence here I cannot deny the firearms branch of the police force access to check that the guns I have licensed to me are present and accounted for, and stored correctly. So, I do the right thing of course, I'm not a criminal. They do random spot checks and non-compliance is taken seriously. (fines, loss of license and guns and sometimes jail time.
But here's the thing...Faith, my wife, is unlicensed. That means she is not permitted access to my guns. Ever. If I was to give her the codes/keys/combinations and security access to my safes she would be deemed as unlawfully in possession of firearms. If caught it's an offence and she would be charged, as would I for allowing it. I'd have my guns and license removed and would never gain them back. So, Faith doesn't know my codes et cetera.
But what if I died and she had to sort my guns out? Same. She is still not allowed access and anyway, she doesn't know how to access them. No one does. It's a problem right? I mean she'd need to sell the guns, thousands and thousands of dollars worth of them, but she can't access them.
Of course, this sort of thing happens and they simply cut the safes open with an appropriately licensed person there, a mate of mine for instance, or the police firearms branch, but it's still problematic.
Also, should Faith decide to get licensed...Let's say she obtains the same sort of licensing I have...She still can't access my guns! They're mine, registered to me, not her. Same problem right?
So, if she were to have guns, legal and registered to her, she would need her own safes that I cannot access otherwise I'm in possession of her guns and vice versa, despite both of us being licensed in this case. It's a bit silly really. I have friends that both shoot, husband and wife, and they need to have his and hers safes which is just plain ridiculous.
I don't mind gun control to some degree, restricting certain firearms and people isn't a bad thing, but some of the restrictions and laws are pretty retarded and ill-conceived. I'm not saying people should be able to hand their partner access codes or combinations to safes, that's stupid, but I'd like to see some sort of mechanism in place to deal with the issue in the advent of a firearms owner dying and their partner having to deal with the firearms; I think they could deal with the his and hers scenario a little better too.
Anyway, with Faith now keen to get her license, it will mean she'll have registered guns requiring storage as above...It's a bit of a headache to have to bring in another safe just for her, one I can't access and so the problem goes round. All of this because some asshole wanted to shoot some people.
Design and create your ideal life, don't live it by default - Tomorrow isn't promised.
Be well
Discord: galenkp#9209
I find a few of these regulations puzzling. The first one that struck me was that you can't have shotguns. In the UK, shotgun seems to be the easiest license to obtain, because of clay pigeon shooting as a sport and recreation. It's actually not an unusual sight to see the wealthy dressed in their wax coats with their flat caps carrying a shotgun in the countryside. Rifles are allowed for sports shooting too, but not really seen openly. Handguns are not allowed, as far as I'm aware, and semis and automatics are obviously way off the radar.
The his/hers regulations is confusing, indeed. So your safe has to be of a certain level, but if you die then your guns would have to be cut out, which says to me that the means to do this are out there (and likely accessible to criminals). So a gun safe is now a disposable item, only made to last the lifetime of the owner, because unless you wrap everything up before your death and sell everything on, it's going to be cut open. It's certainly another aspect you have to plan ahead for. You'd think there should be some way to have the codes in keeping where they could be unlocked through your will by your spouse upon your death, somehow.
We can have shotguns, just not semi-automatic ones. I have a few shotguns, double barrel under and overs. No pump actions or semis are permitted. I know that in the UK shotguns are very prevalent and most rifles, certainly the ones I have here, are restricted [read: banned]. It's a sporting thing, shotguns, as you say and so they are quite common there, and here. I shoot clays sometimes but my shotguns are more hunting-oriented. Not birds, just as back-ups for pig hunting in the advent of a rifle not doing the job, which happens. Pigs are very aggressive and so...Out with the shotty and boom.
Check ✅
So yeah, all safes can be broken into, cut open etc. given enough time, mine included. As far as disposable, well sort of but mine cost me thousands of dollars so disposable is the wrong word I guess, expendable is better. The thing is, as I get older I'll start to dispose of guns and eventually will be left with very few. I have no kids or I would give (transfer) them to the children (if licensed) but generally mine will be sold. It is unlikely I'll have guns as I get up there in age - I am not inclined to leave Faith with that headache.
If I was to die today in a car wreck then yeah, we have a problem. Faith has the phone numbers for a couple mates I trust who will take control and would almost certainly ensure the safes were not destroyed. Any locksmith can get into a safe, certainly the ones I have despite them being of the best quality. Faith is able to disarm security, provide access, and so I think it would work out...But this is not always the case. They would facilitate the sales and hand the money back to Faith.
Just on the keep the codes somewhere thing...If I gave you the codes today, let's just say it is 000000, you are now deemed as being in possession of my firearms because if you gained access to the safe you could open it. You know? So, giving the codes, even sealed in an envelope and stored by my lawyer, is not permissible. It's all a bit awkward and clunky really. The other thing is that I don't want anyone to have the codes. So...Pretty confusing and annoying.
FYI, I had a mate who, early this year, lost $40,000 worth of guns. They broke in, took a commercial grade power cutter and cut a hole in the side of his safe. It took a while. They did a three sides cut then used a crowbar to prise the flap open, reached in and...Gone. Insurance covered it but...Guns in the wrong hands.
This is why my safes are very thick steel and then internally lined with reinforced concrete. They weigh a lot and cutting through...Well, you better make sure you bring a packed lunch, and dinner...And that I don't come home and find you in the process. Can it be done? Sure can, but I've put the measures in place and that's all I can do.
!ENGAGE 25
I didn't even realise you could get semi automatic shotguns! Shows you how much I know. I've only ever seen pump actions in American shows and films, so I guess they aren't allowed in the UK either.
I'd be surprised if semi-automatic shotguns are permitted in the UK - I don't know either way though.
ENGAGEtokens.I started reading this and was nodding yes and agreeing with what you said. I'm even OK with the safe requirements, I really am. I think a gun owner is utterly responsible whether the gun is in his/her hands or not.
But that is just ridiculous. The safe is a disposable? Doesn't make any sense at all. For any reason. There really should be a mechanism that would allow Faith to access your guns in case of your death. Even if she had to have the proper authority there.
I have a gun safe that is bolted through the floor, but I have the combination written and stashed AND tucked in a safe spot in my computer. My brother knows and I've left instructions for him as to what is where. Nobody that breaks in will be able to find any of it because it's coded and you have to know the key. My stuff is safe as it can be.
My buddy Rogers said that after Vietnam there were too many officers vying for too few jobs and the only way to advance their careers was to propose regulations. He wasn't very fond of the 10 years after the war...
Looks to me like your state had some regulations that could have been done way better.
Legit ✅
Essentially it's a disposable safe, at least in respect of the scenario I mention. Some effort would be made to open the safe without damage but in truth that will rarely happen. It seems common sense takes a supporting role to time-management. SAPOLFB (Firearms Branch SA Police) don't really give a rats ass what happens, they just see it as guns taken off the street and I'd even wager that very little compassion would be shown towards the deceased spouse or family.
I have a few little triggers in place, none of which include giving my codes to ANYONE mind you...But should I die my brother will know how to follow the path, who to get in contact with, even from Finland, and will be able to facilitate it, along with my crypto stuff, on Faith's behalf. If Faith and I both go out together we won't care. My executor, my sister, will have to deal with it.
I think what you have in place is legitimate and I would guess that many here have a similar thing, not that they would admit to it. There was some talk about a register for such information but it was immediately rejected as no one was willing to hand details to others, people they don't know.
Remember last year in October when two of my friends (husband and wife) turned their handguns on themselves in a double suicide? They lay there, deceased in an open house with their safe open and other guns in there...Not a good situation. Two of my friends, both ex-funeral directors and current firearms owners were charged, by the police, with dealing with the firearms situation and attended the scene to recover them. Sense prevailed there.
So Australia is not a place of communal property rights between married couples? Seems to me one spouse or the other could utilize the gun laws to royally screw over their partner during a divorce. After all if the guns are registered in one spouses name and the house is registered in that same persons name then by what rights does the person whose name is not on the house paper have a right to it? Guns are property, houses are property. AH to be a greedy banker in Australia during the death of an individual that owned a home that the bank had a loan on, it would revert to the bank as the surviving spouses name was not on the loan paper work.
Yeah, it's a strange one.
The guns are treated differently to other property though. On my death they still become her possessions, are hers to sell, but she cannot access them as she is not licensed. Someone else has to.
On many occasions spouses screw over their partner over the guns. Mostly it is women calling the police saying he threatened me and the police come along and remove the guns. In that case it is extremely unlikely that person will get them back and if so they are often ruined. Rusty etc. It's retarded as no evidence of said threatening needs to happen.
With respect to the house. If owned in one name but mortgaged a will is prepared and it's left, via that legal instrument, to the spose, or whomever they choose. Of course, the mortgage goes with it and that new owner will need to buy it or obtain finance to secure it.
If owned freehold the title just transfers to whoever it is willed to after the probate process is completed, and claimants to debt held by the deceased make their claims throughout that process and the estate is drawn on to pay them. If guns are involved they are simply sold, by the appropriate people, and the funds are added to the estate. If the spouse wants to keep them they can, but have to be licensed appropriately.
So, it's complicated.
!ENGAGE 25
Confusing and complicated, seems like governments and people like it that way. At least it is not as simple as in some countries I guess. There is a lot I don't understand, but I like to think I think like a fair minded person most of the time and that situation just does not smack of being fair.
I think when it comes to firearms here the government want to make it as difficult as possible, long-winded and complicated. The process of obtaining a firearms license is that way and that's just for rifle. The process to get handgun licensed is harder again. It can take 18 months in total. They do that in the hope people give up.
ENGAGEtokens.Wow, some of those restrictions are a bit irritating. I can understand some of them but some haven't been thought out very completely.
Yes, not thought out comes to mind. I guess it's difficult to come to a generally satisfactory set of laws. The government what what they want and always ask for more than they really desire. The firearms groups and owners fight and lobby for more sensible laws and regulations. I think, and this is just my opinion, that in the main the laws are sound. There's a few that are a little clunky and even few that literally make no sense.
I'm a lawful firearms owner, and Australian citizen in general although I have some speeding fines, trust me on that! Generally though, I'm content with the l was, there's just a few that could be better deployed in the real world. Will they? Probably never.
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Some things are better on paper than in real life.
Yes, and in the case of this legislation toilet paper is the most appropriate kind.
LOL
ENGAGEtokens.Hi, really the restrictions are a bit out of the ordinary. If your wife doesn't have a license you can teach her to shoot a gun or does she need a license for that?
Yeah she knows how to shoot, very well actually. There's posts on The Pew Community from talking about it if you want to scroll back. When I'm there anyone can shoot my guns because they are under my supervision and I'm deemed to be in possession of the firearms, I'm just not able to leave her with the guns, I have to be right there.
She's competent enough to load and accurately shoownallnof my guns, then make them safe and store them again. I have taught her that. But, she cannot have access to the guns without me there, under the law.
!ENGAGE 25
Sure, I understand, thank you for clarifying my question. I'll read a few of the group's posts. Greetings!
You're welcome, my pleasure. If you scroll back through the community you'll see some of my posts about my wife shooting...They aren't too far back as not many post in here. :)
That's just nuts. If you don't have kids in America you can just keep a semi-auto AR-15 with a 60 round magazine on your coffee table if you want. Maybe that's a little nuts too, but so is the government telling people how they have to store their guns (without kids in the house at least).
Yeah, Martin Bryant (of Port Arthur massacre fame) messed it up for everyone else. The Howard Government were quick to act and the die was cast.
Since then they've tried to implement all sorts of fuckassery, some of which has fortunately been vetoed. Unfortunately it's easier for them (Government) to restrict and regulate people like me, law abiding firearms owners, than criminals and so the crims have the good stuff and store it however they like and me? Well, see above.
I do the right thing, as do those I know, but in doing that we are limited, controlled and inhibited - Often abused too as I know gun checks that have been conducted very badly. But, we grin and bare it like good little plebs. Oh, non-firearms people abuse us too...Seemingly everyone with firearms is a bad element.
You know, this scenario is why I keep my skills sharp, long range shooting and run and gunning with rifle and handgun...More out of defiance than because I expect I'll have a real use for those skills...Although one never knows right?
So, I stay sharp, vigilant and aware.
Thanks for your comment sir, always a pleasure.
!ENGAGE 25
I'd say the politicians who cynically used a tragic massacre to disarm citizens for political gain would be the ones who messed things up for everyone else.
Run and gun training is good fun. Standing/sitting and pulling the trigger gets old quick. I strongly pity the indoor range people. They probably don't know what they're missing. And with the limited capacity for outdoor shooting around here, I'm not about to tell them!
That's true, the government made the legislation triggered by the act.
Yeah, run and gun is better that static. I don't ever shoot on the shooting line, not at a range and like you I have many places to shoot in the outdoors, the location where the image above was taken among them. I guard them well as they are very difficult to come by. It's a good thing too because due to the difficulty in getting a suitable property to shoot on most people have no clue about how to shoot at long range. Some do sure, but not that many in comparison. They think 400 metres is a long shot...Hmm, nah, not even close to a long shot.
It's a nice feeling, knowing I can shoot at over three times that distance with remarkable accuracy. I like having those skills.
ENGAGEtokens.Did you have to do a psych test with your firearms license?
So everything made sense up to the point where the access and storage got ridiculous -_-
And
oh goodness, yes please put them in asafe with the ammo separate O_O XD
There's no psych-eval no.
These days one goes to the police station and applies, pays a fee. They do some background checks which could take up to 9 months or more and then they issue permission to do the course. It goes for two days, a few hours per day over a weekend usually. Once done and passed a chit is issued and one simply goes to ServiceSA (where vehicle registration is done) and pays for the licence, photo gets taken etc. That's for shotgun and rifles.
If one wants a handgun licence they have to apply again, join a club/range, do training and qualification shoots and get signed off by the club. Then the licence gets amended and one is permitted to buy a single handgun in any calibre in their first six months. That whole process takes about 12 months.
No psychology evaluation.
Feel free to ask questions about anything, the course, training etc.
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ENGAGEtokens.Derp, background checking is probably more reliable anyway XD
I am a gun owner, and my ex had, like you, thousands of dollars worth of guns... some he purchased, some he inherited from his father.. it was a lot. We didn't own a gun safe until my son was an adult. I often don't understand some of the laws and regulations put in place when it comes to firearms.
For me, my gun is strictly for protection. If someone was breaking into my house and I had to first get in my safe and then get to my ammo, I may not have the chance to defend myself.
My son learned very early on about gun safety and I never had an issue with him misusing one or anything like that. And I do believe that when it comes to spouses there should be some easier way to allow her access to that. In the scenario, she's already dealing with a huge loss. Put all of those complications about the firearms on top of all the other complications she will already be dealing with and I just see an unpleasant situation in the midst of something already unpleasant.
I sometimes wish that a little common sense would be used when these laws and regulations are being written.
Common sense and gun law here in Australia doesn't seem to belong in the same sentence, paragraph or book...Or legislation.
If I was to go around saying my guns are for protection and it got out there to the authorities I would lose them, plain and simple. That's not a reason the government deem as satisfactory to have firearms here. Retarded, I know. We cannot carry here and as you can see in this post, a handgun under the pillow is against the law. It's a little bit dumb, but I can see the point, what they're trying to do. I just wish they would think it through a little and make safety the concern rather than the driving force behind it being the ability to inhibit firearms owners, make it more difficult to have them. I believe they wish us to be an unarmed population. We'll see if that happens. Unlikely I'd say.
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ENGAGEtokens.This is quite hilarious and annoying. Well I must say that I am happy that Faith will get her license, she has a great teacher in you, lucky girl
!ENGAGE 20
She hasn't really wanted her licence as she simply just shoots with me, under my supervision and with my guns, but lately we've felt it's important that she gets it and so she'll start the process. We'll not buy her any guns just yet, it takes a while to get the licence, but eventually she'll get something she can call her own.
Awesome, I can't wait to see pictures with Faith and you shooting hihi, how cool can both of you be 😍
Nah, we're not cool...The most average people you'll ever meet...We just refuse to settle for anything but our best life sometimes it works out and sometimes not. But that's what we aim for.
You're so modest G. That's why you're cool😎😊
😊 Thank you, that's a nice compliment.
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STOPENGAGEtokens.So you did get the 22cz!!! 😀
Nice!
I see your unrestricted license but can you get your hands on tannerite? Let the fun begin!
Lol.. Maybe I did 😈 and maybe I did not. 😇 However, if you put all your money on not you'll be sad. 😉
I don't know if I can get tannerite...I mean, Nah I can't. 😉
Definitely worth some legal review. Over here in the U.S. we have similar tight restrictions on suppressors. Over here, they allow for the establishment of a "Trust", the Trust then owns suppressors, and properly licensed members of the trust are allowed access to the device, and allowed to automatically inherit it in the event of death of another member, without hassle. Otherwise, upon death the suppressor goes into a legal limbo state, held by the trustee (but not allowed to access), until the survivor/inheritor is able to get the proper licensing and transfer.. What bogus government crap! Maybe something similar exists over there... And over here, our spouse legally owns half of everything, then all of it when we die... how does that impact it over there? Perhaps your codes get held in some kind of legal escrow given to her on your death, providing she has proper licensing? I really wish all these governments would get out of our personal business and focus on what they were hired to do.... building roads, maintaining parks, providing healthcare, etc.
We are not permitted to have suppressors although legislation passed a couple of years ago permitting them...I know, weird. The issue is they do not know how to regulate/govern them effectively and so they are not permitted despite being legal. I don't know if it will ever rectify itself, I'd imagine not.
Your trustee situation seems very strange but, then again, our storage requirements aren't any better. Like you say, it's a bit invasive on our civil rights, and our own property, but that's the world these days I guess.
Here we have the own half thing, and even with my guns...Faith technically bought them also as we have combined funds, not his and hers. But as for death...A legal will is required otherwise someone could come along and make claims...Even with a will that can happen...Hence the probate process. The problems with guns is the licencing though which complicates the smooth transfer of them...Not that anything involving the Firearms Branch is smooth.
Faith and I own our properties as joint tenants as opposed to tenants in common. We're not tenants at all, it's just the terminology...So, As joint tenants we both own it and upon death the title transfers to the next. A will is still required though. Tenants in common own shares meaning if one dies it might be willed to someone else entirely. This situation works with real property but with guns etc. Not at all.
Agreed, the government should butt-out!
I suspect that I am more of a extremists than you in terms of our views on gun control but then again, I do live in the U.S. and our view of the subject may be a little skewed by our relatively loose gun laws lol. I generally don't think the government has a place telling the people which defensive tools that they may possess. I live in a particularly gun friendly state but our laws are still rather convoluted and they can be worse in other states. Here, one can any buy rifle, handgun, or shotgun so long as it is not classified as an NFA item (which is where things get complicated) with an instant background check and he or she may carry pistol for self-defense in public with a relatively easy to obtain license. The problem is how NFA items are classified is wildly inconsistent and often nonsensical. Machine guns are pretty straight forward (or so it would seem anyway) but why does a pistol become a "destructive device" when one adds a foregrip? No one seems to know but the law here says that it does. Why is a rifle with a 14 inch barrel more in need of regulation than one with a 16 inch barrel? It doesn't seem to be but the law says it is. I am reluctant invite more of that sort of regulation the industry.
So what is the exact process if a gun owner dies there? Who does take possession of his or her firearms? It seems like they should have written a solution written into the law but that may be asking too much of a government regulation.
If it were up to you, which restrictions would you loosen if any? I have a few things id like things id like to change here, were I king lol.
It seems like some of your firearms laws are as nonsensical as some of ours...That's often the case though - we're collared with laws that just simply do not make sense, like the 14"/16" thing.
I'd like to have suppressors unregulated, at least for rifles; I thin it is completely stupid that we cannot have them. It does not make the rifle any more dangerous, or less, just quieter. Sure, restrict them for handguns as there's no real reason for it, but when I start banging away on the long guns when out culling people know about it...A suppressor would limit some of that noise, and attention.
So, when a person dies the firearms branch often take possession of the firearms if there is no other alternative. They are then sold off and the monies go back through to the estate of the deceased. In my case my wife will contact one of my friends who will come over and take ownership - Guns can be loaned here and as the executor of my will my wife would have the ability to do so until they could be sold. I have a couple of friends who are licensed dealers. If someone was just to die and had nothing set up then it's firearms branch who take the guns and that's where problems arise.