Recently I've gotten into the local bitcoin scene in Helsinki. There was a lightning network meetup at a bar that accepts lightning network payments. I knew @brianoflondon's V4Vapp that allows payments of lightning invoices via HIVE and HBD. Tried it the first time, and indeed, I managed to get myself some beer with HIVE via bitcoin lightning network. Now you can upvote me to subsidize my further beer purchases, haha.
The scene is quite small here and there were only four of us at the night, but really bright with some indepth technical know-how about bitcoin and lightning. One long-term IT guy especially is quite the builder who plans to make an out-of-the-box solution for businesses to accept lightning payments. And the cashier solution in the bar was kind of a pilot for that product. However, the actual bitcoin meetup is a bit bigger, so I've heard. I'll see it, if I manage to attend there next time.
Bitcoin versus Hive as a settlement network for payments
I know many hivers won't like my opinion, but I believe bitcoin is the currency that has the real chance to become the cryptocurrency for global adoption for commerce. While Hive's baselayer is fast, I believe it is not as secure and robust as the bitcoin network. And bitcoin's base layer won't need to be fast, because it'll scale with layers, like lightning, for payments. Bitcoin base layer's most important function is to be secure and consistent.
Hard Forks
Contrary to the bitcoin network, Hive evolves its software via hard forks. This is a faster type to evolve, but it also exposes for more things to go wrong and more downtime.
Bitcoin since its inception has been down exactly two times in 2010 and 2013 for a total of under 15 hours in its existence.
At the time of writing, bitcoin has been up for 3567 days, almost 10 years.
Hive certainly has been down more than bitcoin, and while the hard fork hiccups have always been able to be sorted out, they always bring uncertainty for a foreseeable future, which simply isn't acceptable for a globally adopted monetary network used for the settlement of payments. Is the world going to adopt a network that might become unusable for 24 hours because of an update? This is an obstacle that I unfortunately can't see a way out. Hard forks always bring uncertainty.
However, some downtime isn't the end of the world for a social network, which I think is the main function of Hive: to provide a platform for free speech. Thus, I believe Hive should not compete with bitcoin as a global monetary base money system even though at surface level it might seem suitable.
Yeah, lightning network isn't perfect, but it has slowly gotten better over the years with growing liquidity and I believe it'll continue to improve.
Nice stuff! 24-hour outages are unfavorable for payment systems. Even in the traditional banking system, we have had a few hours of downtime X times, for online banking. If more banks are deciding to go full digital, there will be more downtimes scheduled I assume. As for Lightning; it is genius, it bypasses any update time, I assume you just won't be able to close/open a pay stream during the downtime of BTC (which is already really low).
I'm pretty sure that's how it would work, yeah. Also, there are at least two major lightning implementations that I know of (CLI and LND), so that helps to even out any bigger failures within lightning itself when it's not the same software with everyone.
Was listening to theycallmedan the other day, and he was mentioning lightning and shared his thoughts about it. His thoughts are something to take into consideration, that eventually Lightning as a layer2 may end up being a less, but still centralized payment gateway.
For now, it's definitely forcing change in the traditional money system. We just need to be careful not to be making the same mistakes and errors. One of the biggest signs of that, to me, is that we're still calculating BTC and other cryptocurrencies back to FIAT. Then again, it takes some balls and some serious reserved money to be able to sell a corporate photoshoot for 2500 Satoshi (2500EUR) in my case for example. With Lightning, this seems to be much more doable in the near future as it eliminates most of the gas fees.
Yeah, I listened to that too. He isn't very precise with the critique though. Centralization of what? Lightning is a completely open and permissionless, like bitcoin. Unlike with traditional banking system, you need no license from the government for sending, receiving or routing payments (on the protocol level). Only capital and know-how.
If his critique is about centralization of liquidity, well that simply isn't a problem, because having lots of liquidity gives no power over the protocol. And if an entity with lots of liquidity tries to abuse their position by putting a premium on fees, well, more routers/payment processors will pop up with lower fees and capture that value. Permissionless protocol allows for maximum competition which means you actually have to compete with your service to have a good business.
If liquidity centralizes on lightning, that just means that that entity is very good at managing that liquidity and provides it where it's needed. I struggle to find the problem with this.
That's simply because BTC is still tiny in marketcap. Once BTC starts to hold a bigger share of individual wealth there's more will to use it for payments. That's when people will start to calibrate measuring value in satoshis. It just takes time.
I basically agree that Hive is never going to be a global settlement network, useful for tipping and peer to peer transfers among people you trust, but not more than that.
I've sent BTC on lightening via Hive but I'm not even sure what it is, something to explore further!
BEER
Yeah, lightning has grown under the radar but it's kind of a big deal, because it allows instant payments with native bitcoin for really low fees, yet without giving up the custody of funds, if you so choose.
I am liking the sound of this! I'm also in the mood for stacking more BTC anyways, so happy dayz!
BTC stacking is the way to go for me at least.
The kind of mass adoption I like.
You can adopt quite a bit of mass by drinking beer. It's good and has calories.
😂
Oh yes.
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Dear @celestal,
May we ask you to review and support the our proposal renewal so our team can continue its work?
You can support the new proposal (#248) on Peakd, Ecency,
https://peakd.com/me/proposals/248
Thank you!
Now is not the time to waste HIVE on beer) It's better to buy SPS and get 200 EUR instead of 10 EUR in 1-2 years.
An important moment in the life of each Hivian: when they make a real world purchase using HIVE.
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Veews
Love this!!!!
Nice little app you've made :)
Be a pity if something were to happen to it... 😜 I'm working hard to keep it running. Thanks again for talking about it.
Now that, is super cool
Yes 🍺
Bought beer with hive and posted your experience here. Nothing to lose. Hive covers the bill again. Cheers!🥂
Infinite beer faucet? 😁
Dear @celestal,
Your support for the current HiveSQL proposal (#138) is much appreciated but the proposal will expire end of December!
May I ask you to review and support the new proposal (#247) so HiveSQL can stay free to use for the community?
You can support it on Peakd, Ecency,
Merry Christmas to you and your family ??