There have been discussions about Hive content quality for ages which eventually put us in an unfavorable position in my eyes where large votes were almost exclusively assigned to long form content that had an appearance of effort.
Look, many words, and a picture, must be valuable.
At the same time whales/curators completely set aside the facts of the world. Long form content in the form promoted on Hive is a thing of the past.
Tech companies realized that most people are shit writers, most have very little to say, most have very little smart to say, attention span is extremely short, and in order for the masses to use their products they need to cater to those masses.
Thus "snackable content" was born.
Youre not talented enough to make a full blown youtube video?
Well our platform promotes content thats 10 seconds long.
You got an F for writing essays in your English class?
Well our platforms caters to content thats 6 words long!
These "restriction" platforms became all the rage. Blogging was a thing of the past. Essays and articles for college and newspapers for grandparents to read.
Yet, it all remained firmly established on Hive.
The curators were looking for a very specific thing that not many were capable of delivering and very few people interested in consuming.
While there was openness to write whatever you wanted, the fact that Hive functions the way it does, via community moderation, no algos present and frontends designed the way they are, while only specific content was greatly supported, doing "whatever you wanted" meant you neither could get votes or attention.
You were yelling into the void.
Finally... after years of this shortsightedness that still slightly persists, mind I say, there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Some devs showed up realizing that its actually engagement that matters and catering to the lowest common denominator via frontend design is actually the way to go. Not complete focus on content form openness like Peakd or Hiveblog does it.
Instead of everyone having to run track next to Usain Bolt to get ahead, now, Usain Bolt had to take a leisurely stroll just like everyone else and get ahead that way.
Restricting content via frontend design leveled the playing field.
And an even playing field is what attracts masses.
So yes... Im looking forward to more apps like the ones that are slowly getting popular on Hive. I wont do any promos here.
(You have to pay me for that. Im an influecer now, didnt you know?) 😂
Ofc, the irony of writing a long form post like this one promoting short form content is apparent to anyone.
And lets say thats the idea because I could have just as easily MADE THE EXACT SAME POINT in many fewer words.
No one cares bout blogs. That stuffs 2005. Engagement and views matter more than word count.
😘
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
I apologise for the length of this comment, I didn't have time to write a shorter one.
I frgv U.
TMI
tru
Shame
I think this is a disgustingly long post that doesn’t fit to my time preference.
Sorry, please get to the fuxking point a bit quicker next time.
Imagine you have to read sentences and sentences stacked on top of each other with be sensible message behind it. You read all of it only to find out, the author really was just rambling around to get a post out to the people who will vote on in by the looks of effort alone.
What did I just write: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisici elit, sed eiusmod tempor incidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
You get what I mean, I trust your intellect.
You can’t buy that as an NFT, cool right?
Cheers
Haha. You get a 20% upvote. That genuinely made me laugh. 😄
Just 3999999 of those juicy upvotes and I'll buy a Red/White Hive Lambo. I feel very altruistic right now.
😂
Long form still has its place, but we don’t need 100% of users writing 1000 words a day as a way to mine rewards. Leave that to the few of us who actually enjoy it. I think short form content will actually increase the average quality of long form blogging and turn more people into short form creators who are long form consumers.
Absolutely. I will still write blog posts no matter how many dapps with short form there are. But most people arent me and I am not other people.
We grow when we understand others, not only focus on our own preferences.
The quality of posts has been discussed over and over again for years (this is my 6th year on the chain) and even if some things improved, there are still plenty of guys getting lots of attention for effortless posts, which is something that many see, but never speak about.
However, while, let's say, that can be fixed in one way or another, I have a bigger problem with the comments that are usually left on posts which are always coming from those guys who copy-paste the same phase that has nothing to do with what's written in the post, on as many posts as possible. It's not like I ask people to read a post that maybe takes 10-15 minutes to be entirely read because maybe some can't afford to invest so much time on a single article, but at least take time to read a few paragraphs to make an idea what's everything about or simply don't let any comment.
We are all humans and have a real life which sometimes doesn't allow us to be as active as we wish, but that's fine, just don't try to seem active by writing something nonsense or generating comments through AI.
I know what you mean. I still give them an upvote because at least they took the effort to post it and engagement, even on first glance pointless as theirs, is common place in the mainstream. Again, as i said in the post, most people have nothing worthwhile to say. We need to lower our standards.
Id rather have more pointless engagement, if a real person is behind it, than no engagement at all.
Well I read it all. What's the conclusion? Short or long? Haha
Indeed I feel like i have to read people's publications to get something from them and possibly leave a meaningful comment. But sometimes I feel like wasting my time reading something that's just words making up for some empty content. I may use my time in a better way reading a book. But well I want more followers and more interactuations so I keep on reading and voting those posts that I can get something useful, interesting, entertaining or educational. In that way I can build my engagement with the community I guess.
Well when it comes to Hive that is definitely the right way to go. Im just reflecting on where Hive is positioned with its popular dapps when it comes to the platforms that are popular right now in the mainstream.
If you think twice I'm sure you know that this is not exactly true. Look at trending page, look at dalz reports, there are a pattern on trending page, it's always the same guys who get the big votes, because it is supposed, when big votes comes from well known farmers that farm here and in steem, like traf or rancho, etc, but also from other well known big votes that for the reputation they have in Hive, it was supposed to have a concept of distribution less biased, just a little bit less biased would make all the difference.
Not even talking in a couple of users that autovote all of their own posts with 5 or 6 big votes that make more than 50% of the post rewards. Although I agree with everything you say in this post, daily trending page is not anymore about long form content, trending page is for friends and suckers.
I dont think there is any pattern on the trending page. Half these names are small accounts Ive never heard of. A lot of random unconnected stuff.
The daily reports im not a fan of but what Dalz or Archange is doing is valuable and most are curtesy votes on auto.
Most whales dont actually post anything ever. I remember the old days on Steem. That was when stuff was really bad.
You don't see a pattern on the trending page? Lol
I will not spam you with dalz images, just the last 3, the most boring dalz's images lol always the same guys on there
There are true patterns more random than these images ;)
Haha. I actually made the list.
Someone always has to be on the top. I know for a fact most of these arent connected at all.
Erikah seems to get votes from Haejin, i dont remember if I ever even engaged with her, taskmaster posts extremely frequently and basically everyone on Hive knows him, Edicted is popular, mcsamm does the borehole thing, taraz has been active posting for years, I assume I got on the list because of the rally car thing.
There is no connection there. Circlejerking wouldnt get them these rewards because these accounts are all fairly small.
I dont think anybody on this list is even a whale besides acidyo that 1 month there.
Im not sure what it is youre seeing. Some accounts will always be popular, someone will always get the most rewards.
:) what I see is always the same guys on top.
Backing on the topic of my comment, connection between long form post and big rewards is just random.
But yeah, like I said I agree, Hive will not go mainstream without short content. Of course there are space to long content, why not? But let's not depreciate short content. There communities with rules like, "post must have at least 500 words", it seems that I'm back in middle school lol
You get an F if its shorter than 500 words. 😂
No problem, I'm sending 2 F for each F I get 😁😎
You should probably take what I say here with a grain of salt, because I'm basically "obsolete," having started as a blogger in 1998 and never stopped!
That said, I think it is absolutely essential to Hive's future that it is at least inclusive of shorter form content as an acceptable way to contribute, and I'm very happy to see the different dApps that are offering this option now.
This is my 7th year here, and I have long believed that the whole "quality content" discussion is kind of misguided, and we should instead be focused on whether something adds value.
Based on that, some short-form content adds value, some does not. Some long-form content adds value, some does not. Some videos add value, some do not. I really don't think we can view this through the lens of perception that there is a "one size fits all" solution.
Disclaimer: this comment is too long!
I'm probably in the vast minority but I just think its the other way round to how you described it. People didn't demand short form, and thus businesses listened and created. No, the businesses researched to find the most basic, lizard-brain element of the human psyche that they could exploit for profit and pushed it to an audience who couldn't resist, who in hindsight probably wouldn't have wanted if they knew ahead of time the psychological and social repercussions.
Of course specific front ends for short and long makes sense I'm not whining about that specifically, but nobody cares about blogs?
How about academic content, news/politics, storytelling, poetry, 'how to', charity, transcriptions, reddit-style discussions... there's a TON of applications for long-form content beyond basic blogs, as well as short. It's nice to be welcoming to both/all options.
When I use to run my Play-by-post games (which are coming back)
we had some of the most engagment on every post and were attracting outside people to the chain,
but I got attacked for SPAM as the image (the map) was the same on every post.
So I feel you.
I can't believe people on this chain still try to reward lots of words / pictures and consider that effort.
You know what the effort to run a daily RPG along with combat and searching bots is?
Sorry i'm ranting.
Thanks for the post.
!DHEDGE
Slowly the mentality is shifting.
Maybe a comment should include an automatic upvote...
we did have a game account that would upvote the comments.
I dont think i have ever not upvoted a comment on any of my posts.
Truth is... dont tell anyone lol... I consider a lot of comments more valuable than actual posts.
A lot of times when I want to find detailed explanation on a particular topic like this one: Does Hive Blockchain print lesser HIVE tokens when HIVE token trades higher? I go back to blog posts that are several years old. The thing is, I'm not always doing research on HIVE. Sometimes I just want to come hang out with friends and talk about the movie, the rally, the meetup, etc.
Snackable content that drives engagement needs to be embraced too.
I tend to answer to all comments, even the ones that are just vote-fishing. Not all comments get a vote from me though.
Theres a lot of room for such dapps here.
The world seems to live short form content and so Hive should have a slice of that. I happen to like a good blog post and will read them. I'm less likely to watch a video, but maybe I'm just old. The 'gatekeepers' of Hive need to accept that their standards could be holding us back. There are still issues around originality to decide who should earn, but we need to figure those out.
Sorry for such a long comment.
I prefer long form content but I almost never watch videos. Most of the time I don't even have sound turned on.
We each have our preferences. I expect there are kids who have never read a long blog post, but watch short videos all day.
Haha. I prefer long form content as well. I almost exclusively write it. But there should be room for such dapps on Hive as well. THey should too be encouraged to grow.
Hmm
Are we now against long contents or what exactly?
Absolutely not. I love long form content. Im just saying that we should encourage other type of content as well.
I think short but meaningful and long should also be meaningful both will have a good place in the Hive
true
The engagement is almost zero - you do the post and noone is there to have a conversation, exchange opinion and so on, there is just votes and rewards - which make you come back only for the rewards, not the engagement. There is so much to work on here, so many ideas to challenge and change the view of this medium, but firstly it need the time, people and right approach to do it - that is what I'm gradually work on.
Short form content is very approachable. Thats why I feel we need more dapps like that.
Hive system in terms of blog post rewards is quite encouraging . Indeed during 2005 there were likely for sure no such stuffs like blockchain related blogging. To have it grounded is part of an individual effort , dedication and commitment to Hive blogging across choice frontend to involve on engagement and socialize through such level of commenting interaction.
This indeed direction and here I extend my kind regards for sharing.
I agree with you. Engagement and views matters most in the current social media world that we are in today. Writing a thousand words with zero engagement kinda sucks from where I see it. However both long form and short form has their own uniqueness so I’m cool with both as long as the message is passed
Its about what is the thing that the largest amount of people find most appealing if indeed you want to attract the masses.
I dont mind blogs, I like writing them but obviously that is not what most people care about doing or engaging with.
3speak has been curating based on engagement and views for 4 years now
But 3speak is 3speak. You dont go check if the Pope prays enough. 😉
There's no doubt that what makes a post valuable comes down to the attention it gets. A post with a lot of attention (views and engagement) is more valuable than a post with none regardless of whether it is short or long. I think that on average good long form content ages better though and therefore has more long term value. I think that short form content tends to draw short term attention. Long form content draws attention longer term though it may not get as immediate of a short term burst as some short form content. That's just gut feel though, I don't have any metrics to back that up.
But can most people create that kind of content? I dont think they can. They need an "in" thats much more approachable. That is short form imo even though I almost exclusively post long form and enjoy it the most.
DallE
I would like to mention here that quality content is very important here but one thing is more important if you have been working on this platform for a long time and you are working hard. People see and then appreciate your work. It's been one year since I worked here and I will continue to work hard.
A long-form post is an alternative when we need to discuss a more complex subject or provide more detailed explanations. I believe that each format has its qualities and is suited for different objectives. However, of course, the world craves quick content; that's where our nature is leading us.
We just need more dapps that encourage that kind of quick easily digestible content.
I mean, i almost exclusively enjoy writing blog posts, its just that we need to look beyond what we might enjoy and towards what others, that we potentially want here, enjoy as well.
This feels a touch oversimplified, IMO.
The hyper short form content engine is borne of the advertising and data harvest cycle—more eyeballs/users = more ad revenue, hence all the gross social media algos that prioritize "engagement" which is maybe more accurately "engagement-at-all-costs-quality-be-damned."
Like any product, you need to find a market, and there is absolutely a market for longform content, and Hive need not exclude itself from those markets.
That said, mass adoption as a social platform definitely needs strategic thinking around that "lowest denominator" / "level playing field" idea. But—and this is a big but—the whole financial incentive system that underpins massively adopted systems is different on Hive. Vastly different. Data harvesting and ads and clogged sponsored stuff and influencer marketing... how much of that does Hive take onboard to fuel the adoption, how much do we eschew? It's a complex system of incentives, the masses are very unconditioned to the "co-op" nature DeSo stuff, etc. etc.
There is no exclusion suggested. Its the rejection of currently mainstream popular content forms that was present here in the past years, in lesser sense now as the slow adjustment in mentality happens.
You take onboard what you want to take onboard. Data harvesting and ads wasnt what created appeal in the eyes of the mainstream towards those platforms. It was something else.
You want more users, more eyeballs, you adopt and adapt what works.
We need improved discussion forums where each community can have better discussions. Whether it be short posts and comments or long ones we need to be able to vote the best ones to the top. Most projects are relying on discord for their communications but that doesn't offer separate discussion either. It does have a threads option but I dont see that its used much.
Something similar to https://www.howardforums.com/forum.php is needed to have centralized discussions on this decentralized blockchain. We dont want all the discussion to be decentralized in that it is currently very difficult to have discussions and know what is being discussed and changing with all the projects here on hive. We need wiki pages and forums for each project so that we can cooperate and build a better community and world.
well this is always interesting....as people who are content creators in gif, music or video form rather than the written word....it is interesting where Hiveians put the value and err don't put value on things!
I value everything that grabs my attention. We all do imo. Its just a matter of manifesting that in the reality of hive.
ye for sure but as you said Hive rewards long form written content....
Its slowly changing
For long, hive have tried to achieve balance with the reward ratio to the content made on the platform and it seems after many years, the balance has not yet been achieved
If long form is such trash now, why does medium work?
Sure, attention is growing thin, but people still scan through long form, you just have to give them a reason to.
If I might suggest what killed content then I'd say ads, endless promos and the leverage of every opportunity to try to sell something, so much that people fear to click any random link on the Internet, I'm so guilty on both ends.
Conclusion?
Short form does open room for "good fun discussion" but you still rely on Longform for something structurally valuable, not some random short tweets from random people that leaves you trying to figure out what the heck they are discussing.
Im not suggesting that long form content is trash, it just lost its popularity over time.
Medium is fine but its nowhere near as popular as these platforms.
Its quick, short consumption of content thats attracting most of the maisntream.
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I'm not actually trying to write a book.
Long live short content that takes up less time.
Bah! short form blogs are too cryptic for regular people.
Long form posts may be cryptier, but much more entertaining! ;p
Ikr