Cub, CUB , cubs, cubs... CUBS everywhere. Every second post.
I'm starting to get tired of this.
Lets talk about curation for a little change. About voting and self-upvoting.
We all do this time to time, right? Well, maybe not all, but most.
And as I see, in general, there is nothing wrong about this.
But it is not the same, if one gives 2-3% of the whole voting power to himself, and the other who does 65% or 80%.
Ever since a FLAT vote distribution algorithm was started on LeoFinance, the temptation for selfvotes went way down from the old steem days.
And it happened to many people on LeoFinance, as I can see.
But clearly the 50:50 split does not make everybody happy.
Some of them want more. More. MORE !
MORE, As MANY as possible.
As I do manual voting for most of the times, once in a while I review the voting patterns (on Hivetasks .com) of some most active authors, and big stake holders.
In general, I don't see many disgusting behaviors.
But sometimes I see numbers like this.
Everything for himself, and... a tiny tiny bits left for others?
It would not be to hard to guess, who's numbers here are shown above. And which Hive account name is obfuscated on the top line.
I leave it up to everyone of you to decide, how you would name (call) such a greedy selfish person.
You can find the recent voting patterns of any account by yourself, on hivetasks.com
IGNORE
I have stopped upvoting this (and some other similar behavior) authors quite some time ago.
They accounts also siting firmly in my IGNORE lists, so making sure even smallest upvote from my auto-voter (in the early mornings) never ever lands on their posts.
I will not start them downvoting yet, but I feel I have full right to firmly IGNORE them.
Needless to say, that I will also watch closely, who are the most regular and consistent strong supporters and upvoters of these selfish people.
If you decide to be (or continue) as such - chances are that our routes will have a small chance to intercept.
Circle-Jerking is NOT the name of my game.
I am not going to tell, what one should do, or what not to do.
Just want to show some things more open. All is public on the blockchain. But not everybody knows how to see it.
Or cares to spend time searching.
I also want others community members be aware of my intentions. Express it clear, open and unambiguously.
That said, I will let everyone decide by yourself, what you want to do.
I was getting ready myself to speak about this long ago.
Still been postponing it, in hope that things will start to improve.
But seems this is not the case.
I have also reviewed the other remaining accounts of the TOP-10 Leo power holders.
So you can clearly see how outstanding that one example is. Here is my findings for the other nine:
[click it for a full SIZE]
Just see it and compare.
Your move is next.
P.S.
If you care about things I talk here, and decide to rehive (Reblog) it, I will greatly appreciate this.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I have and will continue to remove all his Hive rewards. The fact he is self voting nearly 100% on Leo is bad enough, but as an official curator with free stake?
Is this really who you want on the front page of LeoFinance.io and taking the lion share of the reward pool?
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
There will always be a wide variety of explanations for self-votes, but regardless of what you are being told, people will always see self-voting as a greedy and selfish behaviour.
I don't know the reason for his behaviour but it doesn't look good at all, regardless of what he has done or what he is doing for LeoFinance or Hive. It looks very selfish and greedy.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I stopped self voting when the EIP came, it leveled the playing field and made it more difficult for farmers to take advantage of the system. Recently I started to do a 10% self vote, the same vote I give 100+ authors on a daily basis. I also give a very generous vote, not the minimum amount to get ideal curation rewards.
While I am not opposed to self voting, it's all about how much and what you do with your votes. Clearly someone like rollandthomas it is no longer "self voting" but funneling nearly 100% of his stake back to himself. This is short sighted, selfish, and projects a piss poor image for the largest rewarded user on Leo (and an Official "Curator" at that).
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I am with you on this.
Actually, yesterday I upvoted one of my comments on accident and I cringed.
I agree. A lot of behavior can be countered simply by ignoring the person. This is something that we have to keep in mind.
What you are doing here makes a lot of sense. Bring up the topic to the community and let them decide.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Voting on stuff has so many different purposes, I can understand self-votes as amplifiers. But voting on own comment just to keep the last drop of revenue, that's low.
I think that the people should not ignore "mass self-upvoters".
If people ignore them, then they will just/only continue to rape the reward pool.
Ignoring them is the worst what people can do.
These abusers are ruining the social side of this blockchain on the long term.
I barely remember, when I voted myself last. I think, to make this community nice, we have to distribute the reward and the whole chain will benefit from it by seeing the result in price action.
Thanks for pointing this out. I have added to my Ignore list.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
.
Don't like upvoting myself. Hmmm i guess only i left who didn;t post about CUB arrgh I wanted to post :(
2 lAte chavi, get wr4(kt
I think the fact that you are not indifferent to how others vote suggests that you are really worried about the future of leofinance.
I was pleasantly surprised by the statistics of voting of the other 9 largest Leo Power holders.
I decided to revise my statistics and realized that I, too, am not the best example. I felt ashamed and decided to stop voting for my LEO record altogether.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I share the same idea of that being greedy shouldn't be rewarded by other voters, and if we have to much Leo, there are other good ways to have a good benefit from it, just like sending it to cub finance, which I think is not seem as something bad as milking the platform via autovotes.
When I autovote myself happens because I'm on @taskmaster4450le's voting trial, so when he votes for my articles sometimes, then I vote to myself in the same trial, just as I vote everybody else he votes
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I wished people would act like task...., being an example of preach what you teach.
For the ones who don't know how to check for LEO holding stake I will put the link and a screenshot in here, hope you don't mind:
https://leodex.io/richlist/LEO
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Let's put it this way, you kick a lot of buts indirectly by example. And it works, as we have every week new ATH on engagement. It is the most active community in here.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
by far
Btw. You write a lot of comments and long ones as well. I wonder if whether you're an actual writer? It seems to be very smooth going for you.
You kinda gave it away with the exact amount of LEO. 😀
62% Self.. is quite impressive. One to keep an eye on. !WINE
I'm not on the pulse of Leo so I have to figure out who it is lol. It wasn't the one person I thought of, though he did admit he self votes often lol
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Congratulations, @slobberchops You Successfully Shared 0.400 WINE With @onealfa.
You Earned 0.400 WINE As Curation Reward.
You Utilized 4/4 Successful Calls.
Total Purchase : 24376.125 WINE & Last Price : 0.290 HIVE
HURRY UP & GET YOUR SPOT IN WINE INITIAL TOKEN OFFERING -ITO-
WINE Current Market Price : 0.290 HIVE
That's nuts, especially because such people usually don't only drive one account around.
Who was it?
I self-upvote every one of my posts (sometimes 3 per day, but usually one). I also like to upvote comments on my posts.
I would not complain if someone 100% self-upvoted every day if they were working full time trying to bring as much value to the network as possible. Speculating on this behavior is a slippery slope.
Positive reinforcement is x1000 times more valuable than negative reinforcement. To your point: ignoring someone is in line with positive reinforcement; you didn't punish them: you ignored them because you don't think they deserve a reward.
Negative reinforcement comes with extreme diminishing returns and epic blowbacks. I normally reserve downvotes for obvious scams, plagiarism, or otherwise extremely toxic behavior. Self-upvoting doesn't really apply to these categories in my opinion.
That being said, you find yourself in a position of great power on the network, and the decisions you make have exponentially more affect on the platform than anyone else. Keep walking that tightrope. We'll be fine.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Freelance writers who make $100 USD on a well research blog post are considered "badly paid." (We are in California)
Self upvoting when you have a large stake when spending so much time on the blockchain only makes sense. Why not pay yourself with the money you earned/invested to grow the platform.
Will I go back to writing my daily mommy diaries when HIVE is at 2.00 USD and shamelessly upvote them. Yes I will, yes I will.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I think it's fair to upvote yourself for good quality content and that you're not just spamming article after article. I do about 1 myself a day maybe 2 if its a good day and some days I never even get to an article! Also start doing more upvotes on quality comments that add value to my post and spark threads of chatting between people. These positive moves will help build hive and LEO into a much stronger system but it seriously takes a lot of time. I spend hours on here a day.
For me the self vote helps earn me a little but more important bring some awareness to my post. Lets be honest you normally look at a $2 post first before you look at a $0.01 post. For me it's a way to market my article on the platform to get more eyes.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Man I sure hope we don't go through another "reward disagreement phase". There are some extreme cases that need to be dealt with occasionally, but I hope we don't go through another round of "Gang up" on users.
I just don't think I have the patience to listen to it again.
I don't really sign on to the "Shared Reward Pool" thinking. I think we all hold stake and our votes are the act of allocating the inflation that goes with your holdings.
While everyone has the right to downvote or upvote with their stake the "Reward Disagreement" fights have lost us some excellent users, decent content and more importantly users.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
there is that thing where people support you (not you you) but you also only support you. is it a crime? No. Is it selfish? Does that tell something about the person? Should i play with someone who only wants to play with himself?
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
True and I agree. I think we naturally gravitate to social networks where we feel supported in one way or another.
With the Hive History and all, I hope we focus (publicly) on positives. Every community has a few .. free loaders I guess. (I'm not defending it)
I just think we have so much good going now and it feels really good in the community without all the former negativity.
Great comment.
The difference here is, it seems, attention is simply being drawn. No downvotes or fighting.
@onealfa even states he is simply ignoring.
Perhaps setting a trend for others to follow.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Absolutely, and I love that he even hid the name. Classy.
I am also proud to say, I have no idea who it is! And I don't want to.
I agree.
The only thing I think is different if the self-votes are too big. The disagreement in rewards can be fast end up in bullying.
If the platform makes no fun = no users = no value. So I totally agree. Lets people vote on whatever they like if its not a huge abuse like self vote leeching :) Rules must be simple :D
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Exactly don't let the actions of a few ruin it for the many.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I have a doubt about it.
Small accounts like me who selfupvote with a 0.003 value, will be ignored from your upvote?
In my first days you upvote a comment that i posted and it made my week so much better and soft cause this helped achieve my goals.
If what i'm doing its wrong tell me, so i stop, cause i still want your help with upvote.
Sorry my bad english, i hope you understand. Peace.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Do not worry about it. When your account is small, it is necessary to grow it even if it means up voting your posts.
I am not related to the author, but I have been here a long time and can safely say, keep upvoting yourself with your 0,003 power.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Thanks for understand
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Voting CSI 21.2 ( 0.00 % self, 594 upvotes, 133 accounts, last 7d )
Guess its not bad. I think I self-voted a lot more in the beginning as I was really rushing to grow. After a while, I learned I should just go slow and steady so I stopped doing so. I should probably split the votes out a little bit more.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I am very pleased to read these posts from users with great stakes and power like you because with great power comes great responsibility.
On Hive it's possible to self-vote but I've never liked to self-vote and in fact my self vote is 0% and also my curation accounts never vote me or themselves.
Hive, like Leofinance, are communities, ecosystems and it's better to motivate and vote for another author than to vote for oneself because this way the interaction increases.
A vote given to oneself is a vote not given to another and is a missed opportunity to get to know and interact with another person.
Again, thanks a lot @onealfa for writing this post which I reblog with great pleasure.
!BEER
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
From reading all the comments down below, it seems to me many have not got to my point.
I am NOT against selfvoting. Nor I say it is TABU, or something really bad. NO.
The thing is - it is all about ratios used, about percentages. About the respect to other members of community
Here is the statistics for the last 7 days of our "master-selfvoter":
Voted: 379 times
Upvoted other authors: 45
Rewards distributed to himself: 655 Leo (84.16%)
Rewards distributed to all the other 45 authors: 123 Leo (15.84 %)
(84% to self, and 15% to all the other 45 !? )
I could ignore such pattern from a green newbie, from a redfish, a minnow, even the medium size stake holder.
But such a contempt and arrogance to the other community members from a whale, who holds ~300K Leo, who's one single vote brings more than 25 Leo in rewards, who got registered on steem/hive more than TWO years ago - is simply unacceptable.
And a complete IGNORE is the best I can do in return.
At least until I see the change in the curation/voting pattern.
Last seven days:
This is nothing more but contempt and arrogance.
If somebody disagrees with it - try to prove me wrong.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Sounds like that guy is trying to go full Haejin.
Maybe he is, maybe he is...
Haejin, now that’s a name I haven’t seen in a while, if I wasn’t busy I would go look at his accounts and see what’s he up to.
I’ve also haven’t seen anything from Bernie, you think he doxxed himself trying to get his steem back from bittrex? I don’t know if there was any continuation to that story.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
He effectively left the chain.
Whether or not he truly left is another story. At least, his known main accounts no longer have the same power they used to.
btw what happened to Haejin ?
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Random voting on Hive and shitposting on Steem I guess.
Fully agree with that they should be voting up others content and a 25% 75% split sounds good even a 50% 50% I think I'd be ok with but 85%-15% is pretty dang selfish. They I assume put in the investment and the risk and of course should be rewarded for doing so but that cut seems a little high to me to make me look at this person twice.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
you are being rewarded 50% of your distributed inflation every time you click the vote button. and there are double rewards, financial for yourself and the satisfaction that you can reward others in the community. because it is a community game, community rewards you. or you can just selfvote, but then you must count that community will leave you to play with yourself.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Greediness on the highest other
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I don't like to vote myself but I also don't condemn those who vote themselves especially if they are new users or if they vote more for others than themselves. I fully understand and share your point of view.
I've read all the comments on your post and the effect you've produced is very positive: many users have written that they won't vote anymore and your post shows how important the example of someone who has a lot of power or plays an important role in a community is.
When I had less than 100 HP the people who supported me the most and encouraged me to continue my beautiful adventure on Hive were all people who had a self vote of 0 or slightly higher. They were the people who commented on me even if I had a zero or almost zero vote and commented on many other small users.
Is a self vote value of 0 directly proportional to the contribution and commitment to growing a community? Not always but almost always yes.
If the biggest LP holder had been rollandthomas the leofinance community would have had a negative example and more than a few would have taken it as an example of how to behave.
Also from a purely econonymous point of view not voting for yourself and voting and supporting others is a way to look at the long term and not the short term because the more people receive support the more users Hive and Leofinance will have in the future and if these users have a positive example to follow they will love Hive and Leofinance and consequently also their tokens and consequently they will keep their tokens with the same love and the price can only go up...
I wrote this comment to thank you again and also thank you for the vote you gave me on my comment yesterday. I have earned more LEO with your vote on the comment than with my posts :)
I ask you a favour @onealfa.
Do not vote this comment because my comment is meant to be a sincere and disinterested thank you to the positive example you gave with your post and the example you are giving with your way of acting.
!BEER
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Hell I thought we ran off jrcornel??? lol
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Who's that user? O still haven't figured out yet.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
They always do, the
juicemilk is too delicious.Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
View or trade
BEER.Hey @onealfa.leo, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @libertycrypto27 for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.I dont mind is smaller, newer account do it. Hey, trying to build a stake is tough so if someone votes with .50 or even 1 LEO, that isnt the end of the world to me.
However, at a certain point, it has to go outwards especially with larger stakes.
The same goes for garbage posting. A lot of copy/paste stuff or few word posts starting to trend.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
That had to be said too...
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yes, I agree, especially because those who are new to Hive have not yet understood the full potential and mechanisms of Hive and the meaning of community.
If it were only up to me I would completely eliminate self voting because, even if it is allowed and therefore not condemnable, it is contrary to the meaning of the word "community" and one of the things that differentiates Hive from other platforms is precisely its strong and large community.
I saw that you also have the self vote equal to 0 and therefore we travel on the same line of thought.
!BEER
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Self-upvotes when you write 2-3 posts a week and you stay consistent in VP (vote your post in the same manner you vote others), I feel ok with that.
But when you write 3-4 posts a day and you upvote it all 100%, then it becomes weird.
I’ve noticed this behaviour and it raised an eyebrow too.
It’s good to bring this topic to discussion. We are all investors or investment aware and harming the community is not helping in the long run.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
3-4 post a day? with the exception of the master of tasks, that would be suspicious on it's own
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
TM can write 3 posts of 1000+ words a day. And he’s not even voting for himself. And he’s spreading his VP to a very large number. He’s a machine and putting his power at the service of the community. Total respect.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Sometimes I wondered if Task was a kind of android ... bot ... or something like that because what it does, humanly speaking is incredible. A real machine hahaha ...
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
yup, he's Leo Finance's poster child lol :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
In this era of debt, we should be able to figure out how to leverage that.
I want to upvote myself at 150% VP 3 times a day.
Now I am sure some will try to figure that out. LOL
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
A long time ago I created an alt account to be exclusive to LeoFinance, I have thought about sometimes making this alt account able to write at least 1 post per day to maintain consistency.
Your "strategy" is really good and I believe that many will try to copy. But if it is for the good of the community bringing content that adds value, I have no problem writing at least 3 posts a day.
At the beginning of my journey, I did this and at that time it was much easier to accumulate LEO. Well, today is more difficult but not impossible.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I people are putting up content that others appreciate and the effort is there, then I dont think there is a problem.
The number of times posted is not being question by @onealfa. It doesnt seem like that is the issue, more the self voting.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yes yes, the subject of the number of posts came up because it is just a complement to the conversation above :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
None ever thought that :D
It's pure greed and the Wolf in the Forst problem. The way you think and feel is exactly what you'll find in others. If none helps you, spiraling into the darkness is inevitable.
Let's be frank, you can have a cow and drink the milk. But not all of it :D
Fully agree with this :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I wouldn't think I would find myself on that list but it seems I appear for two instances with 0.60% and 0.80%. I can't remember the last time I upvoted myself but it seems I'm not perfect. I guess I should downvote some of my posts to counter balance that.
Self voting is a two edge sword the way I see it. If you're the type of user that bought most of the VP that you hold then I see no problem in voting yourself because it's clearly just a business for you.
In my case for example where 99.99% of my LP is earned through my blogging and the rewards my posts got me, then I do have some sort of a community obligation to share the love further no matter how small it is.
I usually upvote comments on my posts and to that always with 100% VP. So far though Leofinance doesn't seem to be milked and I'd say that we're clear of that thanks to the community that has been created.
You seem to be quite a detective by the way...
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I wouldnt worry about it. And some voting trails can upvote your stuff, hence giving yourself an upvote.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I was kidding. I don't know what period of time that report tracks but I can't even remember when I last upvoted a post of mine. I guess I did since the percentage is there. Not following curation trails either.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Pretty proud of my ratio here!
I'm by no means an orca or a whale but I am a firm believer in not doing any self votes. I do think though that the people who I interact with and my little "circle" of folks I talk to a lot rarely or never self vote either and it's just a nice thing to do. Give to others instead of to yourself, is a philosophy I try to emulate on here. Sometimes it translates to less rewards for me but that's okay, I'll keep plugging along regardless, trying to make a little dent in here. One of these days I'll make a better dent with Leo lol. 170 tokens and going strong!
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I honestly can't remember the last time I self-voted. Then again my account is small so it's not like it would matter anyways if I did. I understand why people do it though. I just choose not to do it myself.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Leo is very lucky to have you as the top 1 whale. I vote myself once a day and occasionally my wife (once every three days) and often have guilts about it.
I vouch to never self vote myself again on leo.
Thanks for busting our balls.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
You vote for other too...
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yes but the enemy of the good is the better.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
And the best.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
@trumpman2 but do not stop upvoting great contents from other users....
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
For you the CUB's may be boring ... I'm sure that for many of us it still is quite exciting, and even scary at some times. At least I know I feel that way. But it's great when you can think of it as being 'boring' because that means everything is going very well.
When it comes to selfvoting ... I'm divided. I don't post that often lately, my stake is not very high. Yes, I do selfvote at times. But ... I do spread much more votes around for other people. After all that's the whole point of this curation system. Spread the love around, it's free! When you give, you'll receive more in return. And I can remember how happy I was with the first votes I got, it's magical!
But if I would have a big stake I wouldn't selfvote at all.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Well, it seems I selfvote 1.27% of my upvotes... I do unconsciously since it is possibly because I set the autovote on any trail I follow.
In any case, I must say I don't like people who selfvote massively.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
That is how a lot of people get self votes. They are part of a trail that ends up voting their own content.
But at that percentage rate, I dont think you are going to change the reward distribution in any tribe too much.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I am of a similar mind to you when it comes to those who exhibit such behavior. Ignore, and stop voting. I'm sure I end up voting people that do this since I don't really research into people's voting patterns. Of course, you can find users with a small self-vote number that in reality are vote-trading circles. There will always be those that just look to maximize profit by trading 10 votes with similar size accounts.
For me, it's not even an enjoyable way to use HIVE. Personally, I consider my votes as gifts to the author and do not expect anything in return. I try to balance between voting on posts that are likely to give good curation and those that I simply just want to support. I chose a while ago to stick to manual voting even though it doesn't return as much. In the end these are subjective choices and the beauty of HIVE is we can express our values through our votes.
It's not just "code is law," clearly there are unwritten social codes that govern what is agreed to be acceptable patterns of behavior.
Thanks for this "non-cub" post @onealfa! Take care.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Voting on your own post is possible, so it's not forbidden. There are also no rules or ethics defined about self voting.
I read quite a few reactions of people that did self vote, but didn't know the principle of voting and the 50% return you already get by voting.
But some people probably do it for extra earnings. That's not a behaviour for a social platform and people that have been around for a longer period should now and act better.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Although I have small voting power for leo and hive
I never vote for myself
I don't like what they are doing on steem right now
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
What are they doing?
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Full voting party, like a voting swinger club but on the STEEM BC. Groups meet and just relentless vote only for each other until everything comes to an end.
What has this to do with steem?
It's about leofinance.io
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Agree. Ste*m does not deserves even to be mentioned here.
Let they burn. Let they die.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
It appears I am on this list for a bit of upvote, ~0.90% which is top 10 relative to this users' total outgoing upvotes. I would like to say as a small fish on this platform for over three years it is difficult to amass enough voting power without directly investing into hive crypto. So I can understand if someone put in a lot of their hard earn money that they deserve to do what they want with their voting power. However in the long run it makes the platform less sustainable and unattractive to newcomers. Cornering the market will sooner than later devalue the Hive platform to the point where it will meet its own demise.
Appreciate you bring up the fact that this is happening and I can only hope those with the most VP are willing to keep things honest. It is the only way to make distribution of HP/HBD better for all.
So many active users like myself barely get enough upvotes to make it worth wild to stick but if only whales realize if they distribute their upvotes to more users then its use will be with more people in turn increasing demand for Hive and rise in value. There is so much potential here and I believe most on this platform use their VP fairly and hope the few that don't realize sooner or later and to change their ways.
I'll stick around as long as I can and not let a few bad apples make the hive blockchain get a bad rep for the majority of users.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I have never been a fan of greed or selfishness, and I don't recommend self-voting as an approach to yield great returns either, even though it's obviously a superb way to maximize your profits quickly.
However, I am a huge fan of paying-it-forward, which is why many of my previous projects and initiatives have been working solely from a "charity" point of view, where I've actually lost tokens personally to spread them across the community users instead. I didn't self-vote at all for a very long time, but I have started to self-vote occasionally since I joined LeoFinance.
When I personally think that my contributions deserves a bit more rewards compared to what I've been rewarded, I simply use my ~0.25 LEO worth of votes on myself. I figured that my contributions are worth that much, at least. That being said, I would never self-vote instead of spreading the wealth on others, as I am a true believer in having a strong and healthy community. That is how we will have a sturdy foundation to build upon in the future.
My point is that self-voting is totally fine and I am okay with that, but I want people to focus more on others, because that is how we will eventually flourish. 1-2 self-votes out of 10 is totally fine. 7-8 self-votes out of 10 is definitely not an approach I would ever endorse, and I usually ignore such users.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I don't know why I am on top of your list but it feels unfair and like standing at the pillory. I have self-upvoted one singe post of mine and besides that none and I had zero intentions to do so. It shows that I have 0.14% self-vote, which is lower than anybody shown on your list.
https://hivetasks.com/@flauwy
Edit: Apparently I am stupid and wasn't able to correctly interpret the screenshot of yours. Nevermind.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Seems you don't understood @flauwy
6.93 shows that you have collected 6.93% of the total voting power of our "hero", during last 7 days.
It came so, because he upvoted you twice, both times with 100% . (quite an exception from his rule)
Good for you.
Because for all others, 99.9% of the time he upvotes ONLY with 2%.
Ever wondered why so small? WHY?
I may guess the answer:
Because he saves his voting power to make higher profits FOR HIMSELF. Plain and simple.
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I think that the chart in the post shows that the user is spending 6.93% of his upvotes to you ! It doesn't mean that you upvote yourself !
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Exactly so.
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You could just 'delete' this comment :))
But I don't think you'd do that. How's life, you good?
Actually, I can't because I already got a comment. Besides, it is rather comical and I have to own up to my mistakes. ;-)
Life has never been better. So much good stuff happening at once. I thought 2021 would be a bad year but it is amazing so far.
Okay, well that awesome! Not everyone can tell that story about this year.
That makes a lot of sense. I used to self vote when I was a smaller account. I do it on one of my alts, but only on the Sports tribe. I don't do it in any of the other ones. Truthfully I should probably stop self voting in that one as well. Anyway. I try to do my best to spread my vote out as much as possible. I know in the curation and engagement leagues that they run each week I am also one of the few that has zero self votes. I probably have some kind of streak going on if I were to go back and look. I think it is important that you are pointing this out. How accounts vote and how much they engage is one of the most important factors I look at when I am trying to decide if I should support them.
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I used to self vote all the time. Mostly because I was ignorant to it...Didn't really understand the dynamics of it.
Now I never self vote my account even though some curation trials I'm a part of end up voting me....At like 5% lol
But now, I send the votes out to others. It's a gift and I can give it out, I think that's the way I'll vote from now on. Helps spread it out more :)
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You do pat yourself on the back a lot though.
That might be something to bring up with your therapist.
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hahahaa :D
Thanks for raising these points. I think our views are pretty much in line with each other.
I never self vote on LeoFinance.
Mainly because I want my relatively limited vote power to reward other authors, to encourage them, and to show my thanks and appreciation for the content I find valuable and entertaining. I also think self voting sends the wrong message about my intentions on this platform. Yes I want to earn but there's a balance, and that requires taking into consideration what is best for the platform. Ultimately what is best for the platform is also best for me long term :) It's one in the same.
That said I do support individuals rights to do what they like with their stake. What I can control is who I vote, and which authors I choose to engage with and those that I choose to ignore.
Just like in the physical world, if I don't like the channel, I don't watch it. If I don't like the company I don't give them my money. That's the power and control I have, and how I exercise it.
Again thanks for raising these points and getting a conversation started.
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Well, it's also a very deep rabbit hole that mustn't always be talked about openly. Because fighting abuse and bad behavior is not a nice part of the scene and we've seen all the possible ways of getting out of hand.
The easiest way to react would be to counter downvote self-votes and let the author know that you're not a fan of his bad manners.
In this case, I still don't know who it is, that might have already happened - or it should be done, m a y b e.
To answer the question, in the title of your post @onealfa, I self-vote 0% of the time. I have even won awards from @abh12345 for not self-voting, when he put together statistics for an entire year.
I did at the very outset of my "journey" in here, beginning in May 2018. But ... I learned from @abh12345 his logic for why that was a bad idea. And I simply stopped. Full stop. Period.
In your post, this stood out to me:
You and I are (at least I am) older men, so we have a lot of experience in life indicating what we can typically expect from human nature. Are there exceptions at times? Of course, and for those we are grateful for the encouragement they provide. 🙂 But ... They are, after all, the exception ... 😒
Thanks for putting this post together. As a major influencer, by "shining the light" on this type of behavior, you play an important role in (hopefully) keeping it to a minimum.
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Same here, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I self voted. I could be wrong and it may be both hands and maybe a foot but I think that's pretty good for nearly 3 years here! I have the philosophy of "be the change you want to be" and try to emulate that as often as I can. It may not be important or cool in this scenario but it's still something I'm proud of nonetheless!
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I am still scratching my head on how can we justify a self-vote. TBH I am surprised to see that it is considered a normal practice. I am still confused as such. For me, the social interaction is to uplift others. Crazy implosion.
Yeah for sure lol I don’t get it but that’s what happens with this type of stuff. Do you know the account in question here? I couldn’t figure it out but I’m not in Leo that often.
Yeah. Follow this link to know why the user thinks it is justified to selfvote. I don't agree though.
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@rollandthomas/mtkwhhbh
It is extremely disappointing, I had no idea so many did it. One of the comments is even a woman bragging about it...gross.
amazing, congratz
I used to give myself a vote per day but now I'm leaning toward zero. Pretty much only upvoting myself when I want visibility in the comment section.
Well that makes actual sense, how mich %%% do you use for that?
To get visibility in the comment section?
Whatever is necessary. If I need a 100% vote to get to the top, that's what I'll do but if I can get there with a 20% vote weight I'll only throw 20% at it.
55k HP, not too bad but there's still space in your hive-engine wallet.
I see both sides of the fence on this one but I stopped self-voting altogether when I started post on Leo.
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What the difference and what made you stop?
Well, I don't mind self voting because I think everyone should be able to do whatever they want with their stake/vote. I just stopped because I'd rather give those vote $$ out then keep for myself. I feel like you get what you give so give a bunch of votes and you may get them back from others ;)
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Well, first of all, that not true. You give what you give and you get what you get. Truth be told.
Second of all, giving makes happy and taking makes rich. I do conclude you prefer being a good person overtaking that money off the table and that indeed makes you pretty lit.
At last, everybody can do what they want with their stake. But they also have to endure the consequences themselves. Without @Hivewatchers we'd be in big trouble, just like Gotham City without Batman.
Good points all my friend and pragmatic at that.
Appreciate the reply :)
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Also, thanks for sharing your Point of View, appreciated it.
I am a proud non-self upvoter I don’t monitor it and maybe there’s a slip up or too but I don’t see the point in self upvoting spreading inflation to wallets that may use it or lose it is all part of the game! Share the love man
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Respect the Game, beautiful.
I have never felt the need to self vote in a very long time. Not like I am self righteous or something but I just don't see the need
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You're a very self-confident person, but in your case, you're also getting a lot of nice attention from whales. Putting your post in a comfy position already.
Well, what can I say? I will say I try to be as involved as I can in the community as possible and search for opportunities.
The only whale that follows me that I know of is theycallmedan. I don't think I know any personally but I am grateful for the support nevertheless. It puts food on my time.
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That's pretty cool for you, congratz for having found a way to accomplish that.
I am slightly ambivalent about this. On the one hand, I remember the old saying...if you won't vote for yourself then why would you expect others to?
Having said that, I do tend to think negatively of self-voting and don't vote myself as a rule. I have voted myself once or twice by accidentally clicking a button :-0
I fully support ignoring or using a downvote to discourage this behavior however ;-) Social (and/or monetary) pressure is a powerful and wonderful tool :-)
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That's what I want. IGNORE them.
I hope more people fill follow my steps. Especially with larger LEO stakes.
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Self voting has always been discussed in this ecosystem since 2018 😌
For me, self-voting can be done to raise awareness; to reach more people. Otherwise, Staking + Curation Rewards must be enough for people to build a healthy community imo
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"must"?
I hate to tell people what they "must" do.
But I feel confident enough to say, and say loud, what I DO NOT LIKE, and from what I want to stay away.
I do hope, that more people will share my conception, and follow my steps.
That's is all I want.
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I can understand that someone who has invested heavily, and produces good quality posts, decides to reward their own work too; but sometimes greed might take that behaviour a little too far. I don't self vote; if my post have decent quality and someone actually enjoys reading them, I'll get my rewards. Prefer to spread my VP to all the great posts I see on the blockchain, and actually think I should spread them even more!
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This is it !
Keep on going. You are on a right path.
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And do hope to keep it that way. Seeing large stakeholders behave like you do, performing most of curation manually, spreading their upvotes regardless of one's stake, and interacting with the community, sets a great example for the ones here long enough and for the ones who are just entering this world. Thanks a lot! Cheers! !BEER
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View or trade
BEER.Hey @onealfa.leo, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @pardinus for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.I find it ridiculous in a community when someone spends so much of their "energy" on themselves, especially if they are posting multiple times a day. A few weeks back, I tried self-voting a few times a week again as I had in 2017ish, but it feels weird as a relatively large account (HIVE) now, so I pretty much don't do it.
I understand the "my stake, I can do what I want" attitude, but that applies to everyone and actions have consequences and like you say, you might use your stake to ignore some users or, use your stake to redirect the pool away from some users. We saw a case a few weeks back with using alts to do much the same - that wasn't well received either.
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I fully agree
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I agree.
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I think that this action of the autovote should be submitted to a debate among the members of the community in order to reach a consensus to determine if this practice is among the valid or prohibited mechanisms in Hive and Leofinance. In particular I have done this practice a couple of times, it is not something I do frequently but I did it because I thought it was allowed by not being rejected by the system or the community. I understand that this falls within the field of ethics in social networks, so it would be important that as this is a decentralized community, we all achieve a joint assessment on this issue.
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Most of us remember haejin, right? His daily shit-screen-pastes, and one must down below, a fat "UP" from ranchorelaxo (a "hidden" selfvote)
How it all ended up?
Where he is now?
Does the "market analysis" posts nowdays on LEO are not looking similar?
I don't DV him. I have no intentions to start a new flag-war first.
I will just IGNORE.
My high 12% part of all the staked LEO's makes this IGNORE to be noticed.
And my call to others is rather simple:
You CAN change things by just adjusting your own reactions, support, encouragements. YOU CAN
If you don't like somebody's behavior, let him just stay away.
Let these greedy selfish persons stay alone with their posts, with their 95% owned self-support upvotes (one day) down below it.
Let's all play our own games - the community, and the greedy selfish.
I have no obligation to support somebody, who does not support my community.
I care about LeoFinance, I Have almost 1600 of my monthly pensions in it, and I'll do my best to protect this investment.
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Let do, let pass, application of the old economic philosophy of the French school. In particular, due to the short time I have been in this community I do not know many things and others I am discovering as I integrate and participate more in the debates but if there is something I know is that there is no worse punishment in these media than to be rejected by the majority, either as a measure arising from a collective consensus or as an individual action of each member.
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They can spread their Leo and just start different vote trails, friendly flagging might be the only cure in the end. Who really knows exactly, because even that can be outplayed.
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Makes sense to me @onealfa, thanks for speaking out and be open about creating a healthy culture on LeoFinance. I am sure many smaller accounts feel the same way especially when they try so hard to create gem of the content and get nothing as compared to other people who do not contribute to the platform as much. Whales have an option to be responsible or to find loopholes in the system and use them for their own benefit. Blockchain is all about decentralization and that also means decentralization of wealth. The beauty of hive is you can still get RICH by giving your a piece stake of influence (VP) without actually giving it (HP). That's why I love it. When I joined the platform, in my first week, I noticed almost all the big accounts are heavily curating others but ONE. Obviously, I could not say anything about it because I am nobody. I put many accounts on my Hive.Vote fanbase including that one because it made sense to me, to maximize my curation rewards but not anymore. I also noticed that while everyone is trying their best to reward the engagement in some way, this particular account doesn't even care or probably read its comments, let alone rewarding them. Rewarding comments is extremely important for SEO & creating a culture that promotes discussions & interactions to further enhance the actual content. Only then we will be able to rank better on Google and in the eyes of future newcomers. If we want to expand our horizon then we should use our stake to do it first!!!
I am trying to build this habit from the day ONE so that if one day (I HOPE), I go big (in terms of Stake), I will not need to self upvote. I should be having confidence on my content and on my peers that they will support me.
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I'm in that range too ~2%
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The solution to discourage self vote is very simple: publicity. Make a bot that publish everyday a list of the accounts with more self votes.
They'll just do it with alts anyways.
You would be surprised the depths people will go to uncover alt vote patterns. Or maybe I would be surprised by how easy it is to find that information.
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Why? If I build a business and use the earnings to pay myself to write blogs for my website, its considered smart. Why consider it anything else on the blockchain?
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Because the purpose of vote is to discover good content that will bring value to the blockchain, at least in principle.
because you then run a risk to be left to play with yourself. i could be stupid, most probably am, but i live in the stupid belief that this is a community thing. and if you only care about yourself, why would community support you?
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It’s not like I’m telling people to upvote ONLY their posts and comments.
I’m saying, if you took an hour plus to write a post - give yourself a vote.
You get 10 votes per day.
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I just think self voting is boring, I feel I earn more by actually voting others. It also helps to spread the Leo token, and is also nice for making friends. Well, some people don't care about these things.
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My vote isn't worth all that much, so I really don't have much use for upvoting myself (I think I did it by accident once or twice). I can see the temptation, but feel like people can generate almost as much value upvoting other people
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You are right. 50:50 vote distribution is powerful.
But some think the simple way: why should I give $100 to others, while I can take all $200 instead of $100.
This is what comes back to me from my daily LEO curations.
Note that the same amount is distributed every day/month to others.
Maybe I should take $18000 instead of just $9000 ???
Why? Because I can. 😃
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Well you also have to consider the type of community you would create if that were the case. If everyone were to upvote themselves all the time and if you were to make that $18000 it would be short lived; the token would simply lose value because there would be no utility to others, the main aspect of a social network structure such as Hive. It would be a seemingly infinite ATM, until the lack of utility is recognized and the token dips forever towards zero. Community is everything here, without it there is no value.
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@onealfa.leo i wish everyone would do things the right way which you do,instead of self-voting,i observe that you do upvote others and make the community a better place....keep up the good work sir...
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Great initiative that made me realize even if I mostly follow the @hodlcommunity curation account I need to improve my CSI !
I will try to be under 3% of autovotes by mid April and I need to split them more on different writers !
Thank you for raising this issue.
I also feel some of the insiders (not talking about the LEO team of course) even if not fully voted by whales have very high payouts but this should be leaned overtime. Let’s keep this community growing 🙌😉
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My rule of thumb is to upvote my favorite material everyday, and I will 100% myself if I author a post that I think is worth seeing (even though my stake is not too large.) So far on LEOfinance, I have upvoted myself 2 times (as I have written two posts).
Thank you for showing your care for this ecosystem. When the whales care about the ecosystem, it thrives.
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The majority of my upvotes goes to taskmaster lol :) they aren't worth much but It shows that I appreciate his support. Also I was meme-ing the other day that self upvoting is like watering the garden in the rain unless you are a whale, so for plebs like myself it's definitely not worth it even if we were doing that and I think most of us aren't anyway.
Later edit: I figured out who the self voting dude is :P
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later edit: not the majority, but the largest percent goes to taskmaster. My self upvote ratio is 0 as far as I can tell.
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I thank you.
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You don't have to thank me lol :) It's more of a gesture than anything because they don't amount to much
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