Long story short (the lengthy bit is me feeling pretty vulnerable right now, so probably not as resilient as usual) I was so upset today when I saw a woman who I always see at the beach and who completely and utterly willfully ignore me speak to me, look at me, or acknowledge my existence. Worse, she'll enter the group of girls sitting waiting for waves and talk to them with her back to me, clearly trying to push me out. It's bullying behaviour, and ridiculous. I really struggle to understand it, though I do know why she is behaving like this - she's threatened by me, and she needs me for her own narrative to endear her to her boyfriend (let's call him Dave - not his real name) and someone I would count - or used to count, I'd say now - as a mate.
Phew. This is kinda hard to explain, so bear with me. I'm actually trying to explain my answer to @galenkp's question of the week:
What piece of advice would you give to someone in an abusive relationship and why?
because I wanted to explain what the consequence of me doing just that.
Dave spent weeks about two years back talking to everyone for hours about What Happened when - let's call her Mary - had an affair and left him for some bloke on the island off the coast of Tassie where she's from. I wasn't the only one that was subjected to hours of Dave talking about what a narcissist she was, and all the lies he had caught her out in, and her narcisstic behaviour, and how he felt he was suffering from PTSD from his relationship with her.
He needed to talk, and I listened, because that's what friends do. You hold space for people reaching out for help.
A random picture of a kangaroo, taken by me.
One of the lies was even about me - she'd come home crying one day and said that I gave her a dirty look out in the water, clearly trying to drive a wedge between him and me. I didn't, of course - that's so not me. Even Dave laughed at the idea of it, and what he'd figured out about her psychology confirmed that it was a lie. He'd known me long enough to think it was bullshit. There was a lot of psychological manipulation going on, and I imagine there still is.
Gah, this sounds like some Days of Our Lives 'he said she said' drama.
After literally weeks of listening to Dave say about how he'd never get back with her, I said to him that was probably a good idea - he was in a classic abusive relationship. I agreed that he couldn't continue to be treated in this way by her. He needed to let it go and she needed some serious help.
And then they got back together.
Given her absolute refusal to talk to me, I'm pretty sure Dave would have said something like 'even River thinks I shouldn't be with you', and that's likely why she does her damndest to make my life as uncomfortable as possible.
People in abusive relationships essentially cannot be trusted to follow your advice, or to leave the person that's making their life hell. They'll keep making the same mistakes. For them, the abuse is home - it's safety. It's what they know. For Dave, staying with Mary was better than being alone, and he likely justifies it that way. There's nothing to be gained by telling them to leave a relationship. They know it's no good. They know it's abusive. They just keep making the same choice, over and over, even if it hurts other people around them, and themselves.
So there's a massive part of me that would be reluctant to give advice to anyone in an abusive relationship. My experiences with doing that haven't been great.
But the more I think about it, the more I stick to my guns that I'd done the right thing. I'd offered him support. I said they both needed professional help.I listened to him, and believed him, and told him that his feelings were valid. I told him it wasn't his fault, and he didn't deserve it. I told him that I was here to support whatever choice he made.
I honestly don't know what else I could have done.
With Love,
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Yes, you really did the right thing, I mean, you shouldn't close your eyes to someone wbo needed to hear the truth, just as they say that, at times, the truth is bitter, it was good you let him know of what to do, In abusive relationship, the party who is being treated unfairly doesn't have to stay, so, I believe in his case, he is enjoying being mistreated, and his actions has shown that he is enjoying it, @riverflows you do not ever have to worry about anything, what you did was protecting him from harm, and every good people would want to do the same.
Right now, Dave has made his choice, he should live with whatever comes forth.
Have a good time 🥰🙏
Thanks so much. This means a lot. Xx
You are welcome, have a good time 🥰🙏
You did what you could River. You did your best. You planted the seed.
One of my besties favourite saying is: ‘You can lead the horse to the water, but you can not make them drink it’ 😊💙
!ALIVE
@fantagira how lovely to see you here, it's been ages!!! Hope you are well.
That's a great saying. I shouldn't let it upset me so much.
Hey! Kinda flying visit then and today too !LOLZ 😂
Life has suddenly became so full of activities that I barely have time to look at my phone, let alone create content. Maybe when winter comes 😝
I’m good, dear. I’m very good 😘
!ALIVE
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Summer - what summer lol, though I've heard it's been nice the last few days. YOu still in UK?
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At least, you shared your opinion and care. That's always the right thing.😊
Yeah, grown ups, no matter how good advice you shared, still their decision will always be right. Nah, I've been in a situation where I advise someone about their relationship, in the end, they still stick together.
I definitely won't listen to his upset again... I'm done. It still hurts, but I need to move past it..
Agree.. Nah, let him be..😊
I think you did what you could and should have, and they need to take the rest from there. We can lead a horse to water but we can’t force them to drink!
Yep, I think someone else commented that too. It's just so hard to avoid all the time..
Glad to hear you working on holding your boundaries and self-esteem. Folks like that often try to make themselves look better by downing others. He seems to be caught in the co-dependency cycle. I've been in similar relationships in the past. They are often hard and unpleasant to break out of as once the people around them start holding their boundaries the "perps" get upset and angry...
One of the best books I found enlightening was "The Human Magnet Syndrome: Why We Love People Who Hurt Us" by Ross Rosenberg. Certainly was eye opening. Maybe as an anonymous gift to him?
Ha that's a good one... Might be worth dropping in his letterbox.
An S and M relationship requires sickness in both parties - the sadist(Mary?) is no more the bad guy than is the masochist (Dave?). Dave is quite likely a liar and also a guy who would put words in your mouth, would tell Mary that you said something you didn't even say. I know why you said what you said and would have been tempted to do so too, but I would have been wary. I have a sister like this, and I never respond in any way when she tries to get me to talk about someone else, because I've learned the hard way that she goes right to that person and reports an exaggeration of what I have said or indicated, even if I only nodded. Stay away from them both, they are using you as a weapon in their fucked up relationship. Dave likes this shit. Oh now I'm mad you have enough to deal with. They are zombies, don't give eother of them another thought.
It's hard because I see her in the surf all the time. It's hard to avoid her. If I had my way I wouldn't see them at all .. and I'm definitely done with him too. Your advice is bang on.
I had this exact problem once upon a time. The next time I saw the wife, I went up to her with a big smile and gave her a kiss on the cheek. She started avoiding me after that.
Sometimes we want to protect our friends from this kind of situation, or maybe others, but don't tell them do this, do that, No. Just make your point and let them make the decision.
"No one takes the piss out of someone else's head", says a saying around here...so feel light and live happy, you did your part.
🌹
Thanks xx
People in abusive relationship can't be advised easily , it takes scares to convince them and once they haven't gotten that scare, they won't listen or leave the abusive relationship .
You just have to continue doing the little good you can and then pray as well.
Nice post
You can offer support and advice, but people won’t help themselves unless they want to. Obviously, he’s not there yet.
I think the best thing in such cases is tell the truth but not calling names the other person because sometimes - like this one - they end up together and you get "panished" somehow. But I agree you did the right thing..