Sure, but one thing is opinions, another is hard facts from numbers in the top rank of the game. Here is a similar screenshot from Solar Gold. Win rates look pretty solid to me :)
The overall win rate being low just means that there are a lot of players who don't understand how to make the most out of the winning strategies in Deception. In capable hands, Deception is as competitive as any other God. It is however not as easy and straightforward as a pure aggro deck, and perhaps that is the reason why in the aggregate the win rate drops so much.
Compared to the same level of ranking with the other Gods, he still loses out, tying again with Light, who seems to be a bit of an underdog as a favorite.
You can see that most of these compositions recycle opponent's creature control cards. This is the difficulty in trying to guess whether the opponent will play a useful or useless creature to spend your resource to dominate it.
In general, the times aren't good for Deception nowadays, I agree.
Top deck info isn't representative, people get a win streak, like, 30 games, 21 win, 70% win rate. It happens especially often when a guy first pushed down to lower ranks on WR and then skyrocketed back to the higher liege. Many decks rely on luck a lot so they sometimes have a long row of wins or losses. Then, the "capable hands" can de-rank again but his lucky deck becomes a monument in top decks table on gudecks.
I agree with you. There is no way to maintain an average based on top ranks. These are collections with a high cost for what they can deliver to the player. While there are simpler and cheaper options like WAR AGGRO.
I understand the win streak argument, but if you look at the matchup tables at https://gudecks.com/meta/matchups?god=deception&timeFrame=7&userRank=10 you'll find the Deception decks that have an overall win rate against other archetypes above 50%. In the case of Solar Gold and counting 7 days worth of matches, Mayday, Hidden Rush and Aggro have win rates above 50%. The latter 2 are generally pretty cheap decks. You don't get these numbers with win streaks only, these percentages take into consideration matches for all players.
Your argument is based on the 50%+ on average which is based on Mayday Deception. So you ruined your argument "people just don't understand how to play" "Deception in capable hands is..." But as we see from the table you only need to buy a card for 20$ to be "capable hands". Personally, despite my passion for Deception... I just hate the laughter of this flying b***h (Kamala Harris of GU), only insane people can play this archetype (sorry fans of Mayday but you are nuts).
It didn't work in Auric where I am most often (maybe I wasn't skillful since the deck is new to me as for playing). As soon as I am in Ethereal (it happens but not often), I'll try it again. Fun, a lot.
As for top decks on gudecks. My fresh story. I tried to test this and that (ToD cards) and was punished for that - de-ranked to Midnight and Twilight even. Then, I returned to my standard Mill Deception saying "never again testing!!" and guess what had happened? I skyrocketed to Auric (and failed to get into Solar). And look I am on the 3-day list, the last deck of ??? (me):
I don't understand what logic you use to mix GU opinions with American politics. My guess is that many people here in Hive are not American or don't follow American politics to understand what the reference is about. Btw - I follow American politics and I don't understand what Kamala Harris' politics has in common with the point I was trying to make about Deception.
Regarding the 'capable hands' argument. Not everyone is able to play this game with the same proficiency level. There are clearly people who are more capable and talented than others. You can see that on how some people consistently rank high in the leaderboards and perform really well in tournaments. This is despite the enormous influence luck plays in the game. Some people try to play competitively and choose decks for that purpose and try hard at understanding the meta and getting better at the game. Other people have fun trying out new stuff or playing around with game mechanics they particularly enjoy. That is fine too, but don't expect those ways of playing will yield the same success in victories as someone who is focused on playing the best decks possible to climb the ladder.
Ultimately I was just pushing back on the notion that Deception is weak and not competitive. I don't think that is the case and I pulled data from GU Decks that demonstrates how optimized Deception decks (not only Mayday but other decks too) can be as competitive as decks from other Gods.
I don't understand what logic you use to mix GU opinions with American politics... ...I follow American politics and I don't understand what Kamala Harris' politics has in common
If you actually followed American politics, you would know what's common between Kamala Harris and Admiral Mayday.
There is for sure a case to be made by looking at the aggregate win rate of all the matches for each God. But that doesn't necessarily indicate that the decks from that particular God are not competitive. It could mean that players are just not able to make the most of the cards. It is also possible that players in the lower ranks are not using the more expensive cards that are necessary to make the decks competitive. On the other hand, Guild Deception is a notably cheap and effective deck, although pointed by many as a high skill deck that needs good understanding of the matchups and strategies to be successful.
Looking at Light (before the new expansion) and how the individual decks performed, I think there was a power issue. Light decks in the current meta are generally simple to pilot, but yet they under-perform against many of the other meta decks - and this results in an overall lower win rate.
But the point I was trying to make initially with the screenshots is that this is not the case for Deception. For sure players lose a lot of games, but the reason for that is not the lack of solid, competitive decks.
Guild Deception should be quite good too, if the player understands how the deck works and the meta allows. Best thing is to check GU Decks for successful decklists and see if one of them works well for you.
Good players are often not good with every archetype.
Sure, but one thing is opinions, another is hard facts from numbers in the top rank of the game. Here is a similar screenshot from Solar Gold. Win rates look pretty solid to me :)
The overall win rate being low just means that there are a lot of players who don't understand how to make the most out of the winning strategies in Deception. In capable hands, Deception is as competitive as any other God. It is however not as easy and straightforward as a pure aggro deck, and perhaps that is the reason why in the aggregate the win rate drops so much.
Compared to the same level of ranking with the other Gods, he still loses out, tying again with Light, who seems to be a bit of an underdog as a favorite.
You can see that most of these compositions recycle opponent's creature control cards. This is the difficulty in trying to guess whether the opponent will play a useful or useless creature to spend your resource to dominate it.
In general, the times aren't good for Deception nowadays, I agree.
Top deck info isn't representative, people get a win streak, like, 30 games, 21 win, 70% win rate. It happens especially often when a guy first pushed down to lower ranks on WR and then skyrocketed back to the higher liege. Many decks rely on luck a lot so they sometimes have a long row of wins or losses. Then, the "capable hands" can de-rank again but his lucky deck becomes a monument in top decks table on gudecks.
I agree with you. There is no way to maintain an average based on top ranks. These are collections with a high cost for what they can deliver to the player. While there are simpler and cheaper options like WAR AGGRO.
I understand the win streak argument, but if you look at the matchup tables at https://gudecks.com/meta/matchups?god=deception&timeFrame=7&userRank=10 you'll find the Deception decks that have an overall win rate against other archetypes above 50%. In the case of Solar Gold and counting 7 days worth of matches, Mayday, Hidden Rush and Aggro have win rates above 50%. The latter 2 are generally pretty cheap decks. You don't get these numbers with win streaks only, these percentages take into consideration matches for all players.
Your argument is based on the 50%+ on average which is based on Mayday Deception. So you ruined your argument "people just don't understand how to play" "Deception in capable hands is..." But as we see from the table you only need to buy a card for 20$ to be "capable hands". Personally, despite my passion for Deception... I just hate the laughter of this flying b***h (Kamala Harris of GU), only insane people can play this archetype (sorry fans of Mayday but you are nuts).
I like Mill Deception, my own style Mill Deception, although look at this guy: https://gudecks.com/meta/player-stats?userId=3791411
He plays his own style Mill Deception in Ethereal Diamond. His (her?) deck is very smart: https://gudecks.com/decks/GU_1_2_BEbBEbBFXBFXLAGNBgNBgNBmNBmNBpNBpNCbNCbQATQATCCWCCWCCgCCgCFLCFPCFPGCKGCKIAkIAkIAnIAnICmICm?godPowers=100119&creator=Gabe_Ster%20TTV&userId=3791411&archetype=Mill%20Deception
It didn't work in Auric where I am most often (maybe I wasn't skillful since the deck is new to me as for playing). As soon as I am in Ethereal (it happens but not often), I'll try it again. Fun, a lot.
As for top decks on gudecks. My fresh story. I tried to test this and that (ToD cards) and was punished for that - de-ranked to Midnight and Twilight even. Then, I returned to my standard Mill Deception saying "never again testing!!" and guess what had happened? I skyrocketed to Auric (and failed to get into Solar). And look I am on the 3-day list, the last deck of ??? (me):
https://gudecks.com/decks/GU_1_2_BBJBBJBFXBFXMBbNBmNBmNCbNCbQATQATCCNCCNCCWCCWCCgCCgCFPCFPGBEGBEGCKGCKIAkIAkIAlIAlIAnIAnICm?godPowers=100119&creator=???&userId=781645&archetype=Mill%20Deception
I don't understand what logic you use to mix GU opinions with American politics. My guess is that many people here in Hive are not American or don't follow American politics to understand what the reference is about. Btw - I follow American politics and I don't understand what Kamala Harris' politics has in common with the point I was trying to make about Deception.
Regarding the 'capable hands' argument. Not everyone is able to play this game with the same proficiency level. There are clearly people who are more capable and talented than others. You can see that on how some people consistently rank high in the leaderboards and perform really well in tournaments. This is despite the enormous influence luck plays in the game. Some people try to play competitively and choose decks for that purpose and try hard at understanding the meta and getting better at the game. Other people have fun trying out new stuff or playing around with game mechanics they particularly enjoy. That is fine too, but don't expect those ways of playing will yield the same success in victories as someone who is focused on playing the best decks possible to climb the ladder.
Ultimately I was just pushing back on the notion that Deception is weak and not competitive. I don't think that is the case and I pulled data from GU Decks that demonstrates how optimized Deception decks (not only Mayday but other decks too) can be as competitive as decks from other Gods.
If you actually followed American politics, you would know what's common between Kamala Harris and Admiral Mayday.
There is for sure a case to be made by looking at the aggregate win rate of all the matches for each God. But that doesn't necessarily indicate that the decks from that particular God are not competitive. It could mean that players are just not able to make the most of the cards. It is also possible that players in the lower ranks are not using the more expensive cards that are necessary to make the decks competitive. On the other hand, Guild Deception is a notably cheap and effective deck, although pointed by many as a high skill deck that needs good understanding of the matchups and strategies to be successful.
Looking at Light (before the new expansion) and how the individual decks performed, I think there was a power issue. Light decks in the current meta are generally simple to pilot, but yet they under-perform against many of the other meta decks - and this results in an overall lower win rate.
But the point I was trying to make initially with the screenshots is that this is not the case for Deception. For sure players lose a lot of games, but the reason for that is not the lack of solid, competitive decks.
I'll test another composition outside Control.
Perhaps using initial Hidden Rush.
Guild Deception should be quite good too, if the player understands how the deck works and the meta allows. Best thing is to check GU Decks for successful decklists and see if one of them works well for you.
Good players are often not good with every archetype.
Hidden Rush is a high difficulty deck as well, if the goal is to reach win rates above 50%.