Yes! Temple Of Doom scene indeed, haha, great analogy.
There's no T&C's when you sign up. No warning message that if you break any of the rules, you could find yourself with a lifetime black mark, and nobody will give you a definitive list of these so-called "Rules." anyway so how the hell are you supposed to know if you're doing anything wrong? Why are they not written down? Because a lot of it is made up on the fly as they go along with some of the interpretations of wrongdoing utterly bizarre! But more importantly, if it's not written down, you can't refute it
This is really the heart of what I was getting at, thank you so much for emphasizing that. And I agree with both your points that overcoming HW's influence would be vital for change, and that in doing so it's possible any new group would simply follow in the same footsteps, resulting in the same environment or culture.
I applaud your attempts to inject some positivity and understanding into the discord, and at the same time, I'm not surprised you were silenced, nor that the silencers had little self-awareness of their behavior. I'd probably be a bit sore about such a thing too.
A: Thank you.
B: Only red is doable as far as I know, and it's done like this. I want <div class="phishy">THIS TEXT</div> to be red.
C: I'd be happy to, though I'm not exactly clear what would qualify as relevant. My post on power/abuse? My post on censorship? Does my Hive Guide or Crypto Dictionary fall outside relevance or inside?
D: To be honest, I still haven't got the hang of tags (I've been on Hive less than half-a-year), it could just be a mistake. Which one? 🙏
See, this "Decentralised" is a load of old dishwater too! The word actually has no value as far as the platform or the userbase is concerned. This is born out by the original post in that around 10% (It might be more for the pedantic's among us) who effectively control what happens on Hive. For example, if it were decided tomorrow that only posts in markdown were acceptable, the likes of myself who post in HTML would be forced to convert to markdown or face being DV'd to oblivion. Don't believe me? I've seen folk being DV'd for selling their Hive to other people or, get this! Non authorised exchanges. Authorised? By Who? So basically, we're being told what to do with our own money! Never mind what we post. I even know of one witness that downvotes you if you dare to say anything positive about STEEM. If that's not an abuse of position, I don't know what is.
Talking of STEEM, there is the DV'ing anything that relates to STEEM, even if it was four years ago. I've even seen folk get in trouble for upvoting family and friends. Maybe they're vote farming? Who knows? But if my brother or sister were on the platform, I'd undoubtedly be too scared to vote for them. So, when you see someone claiming Hive is about "Freedom", tell them they're talking bollocks because it is not free it is someone else's (A groups) idea of freedom, and that could change today, tomorrow or at the next hard fork. Remember, boys and girls, the moment someone says: "We need a moderator." You should scream out loud: "THERE GOES MY FREEDOM!"
Saying that Hive is decentralised is a hollow, worthless incentive to join; it would be better to say: "Hey! Come join this platform and get bullied and walk through a minefield that nobody has a map to. Have smart arses tell you how you haven't earned it yet, so you can't lose it!" Only an idiot wouldn't feel better about that DV napalm attack across their account now they know that "Potential Earning" isn't real, although it could be if they left you alone, but it's more fun removing it. I saw someone on Discord last week say, "I will downvote everything you post!" Now I accept that everyone is free to do what the hell they like with their votes; it's just some seem to get a perverse pleasure out of financial violence.
Please don't misunderstand me. I think there is a place for HiveWatchers. But they should close down at least two of their DV bots and focus on Plagiarism, Spam, Vote farming and Theft, and that's it. Anything outside of those four criteria should be none of their business.
As for whales, there's not much that can be done if you upset one of them, and some people are insanely easy to upset. 🤷♂️
Now I accept that everyone is free to do what the hell they like with their votes; it's just some seem to get a perverse pleasure out of financial violence.
This and the rest of your grasp to the circus isn't off the mark. The price of freedom is having this circus. Not going to defend the antiabuse side as it has its own moments that make me facepalm too, but would still choose this circus over what goes on at Steem where the visibility and financial rewards for new comers if they hustle are steeper so there's that.
HW ain't the right organization to talk about downvoting consensus, there's HDR which I think you've been invited before? It's a circus of it's own but it's the closest thing I can liken to community consensus to what is tolerable and not as pooled downvotes get discussed while having members not obligated to join in some efforts if they don't want to. The best channel is the shitpost channel there.
Dunno, what's stopping those who don't like first layer to just make 2nd layer frontend and their own tribe token to buy and gatekeep those oligarchs so you guys could have your community, token value which letting an actual market decide whether they want to buy into, and all the advantages of 2nd layer which happens to include control over what is visible?
so i sold 100% of my 22,000 HIVE and now i don't give a shit if someone downvotes me because this place is almost pure trash, even hivewatchers knows discord is better
It's always going to fail if we just leave decision making to anybody and trying to make that decision making power equal across the board. Some are just better at using power and some have power that aren't good with it but who says which gets to have those privileges? Always a subject for debate.
It's a frontend issue and anyone can develop their own frontend based from the available github files of they know how to code. I believe dbuzz made a lot of changes when it comes to visibility. Now to expect all frontends to obey the same rules isnt feasible.
It would need to go to war with HiveWatchers literally. Not only would it need to counteract the DV's but possibly make punitive downvotes of its own against HW and a lot of other self-appointed groups out there in an effort to bring a community spirit back on track.
There is a danger the 'New Group' could turn into what it set itself up to fight. (Shades of Animal Farm)
I wonder if people running certain accounts are LEGALLY authorized to such "Rights"...
As interpreted by State Authorities Operating in such Jurisdictions.
Its like a State (engine) Sponsored Asset Seizure.
Thanks @dickturpin , I appreciate the kind words.
Yes! Temple Of Doom scene indeed, haha, great analogy.
This is really the heart of what I was getting at, thank you so much for emphasizing that. And I agree with both your points that overcoming HW's influence would be vital for change, and that in doing so it's possible any new group would simply follow in the same footsteps, resulting in the same environment or culture.
I applaud your attempts to inject some positivity and understanding into the discord, and at the same time, I'm not surprised you were silenced, nor that the silencers had little self-awareness of their behavior. I'd probably be a bit sore about such a thing too.
A: Thank you.
B: Only red is doable as far as I know, and it's done like this.
I want <div class="phishy">THIS TEXT</div> to be red.C: I'd be happy to, though I'm not exactly clear what would qualify as relevant. My post on power/abuse? My post on censorship? Does my Hive Guide or Crypto Dictionary fall outside relevance or inside?
D: To be honest, I still haven't got the hang of tags (I've been on Hive less than half-a-year), it could just be a mistake. Which one? 🙏
!LUV
👍😀🙏
<><
@ryzeonline, you've been given LUV from @dickturpin.
Check the LUV in your H-E wallet. (1/1)
🙏
There were never any rules. Its just jungle justice out here. The price of decentralization.
See, this "Decentralised" is a load of old dishwater too! The word actually has no value as far as the platform or the userbase is concerned. This is born out by the original post in that around 10% (It might be more for the pedantic's among us) who effectively control what happens on Hive. For example, if it were decided tomorrow that only posts in markdown were acceptable, the likes of myself who post in HTML would be forced to convert to markdown or face being DV'd to oblivion. Don't believe me? I've seen folk being DV'd for selling their Hive to other people or, get this! Non authorised exchanges. Authorised? By Who? So basically, we're being told what to do with our own money! Never mind what we post. I even know of one witness that downvotes you if you dare to say anything positive about STEEM. If that's not an abuse of position, I don't know what is.
Talking of STEEM, there is the DV'ing anything that relates to STEEM, even if it was four years ago. I've even seen folk get in trouble for upvoting family and friends. Maybe they're vote farming? Who knows? But if my brother or sister were on the platform, I'd undoubtedly be too scared to vote for them. So, when you see someone claiming Hive is about "Freedom", tell them they're talking bollocks because it is not free it is someone else's (A groups) idea of freedom, and that could change today, tomorrow or at the next hard fork. Remember, boys and girls, the moment someone says: "We need a moderator." You should scream out loud:
"THERE GOES MY FREEDOM!"
Saying that Hive is decentralised is a hollow, worthless incentive to join; it would be better to say: "Hey! Come join this platform and get bullied and walk through a minefield that nobody has a map to. Have smart arses tell you how you haven't earned it yet, so you can't lose it!" Only an idiot wouldn't feel better about that DV napalm attack across their account now they know that "Potential Earning" isn't real, although it could be if they left you alone, but it's more fun removing it. I saw someone on Discord last week say, "I will downvote everything you post!" Now I accept that everyone is free to do what the hell they like with their votes; it's just some seem to get a perverse pleasure out of financial violence.
Please don't misunderstand me. I think there is a place for HiveWatchers. But they should close down at least two of their DV bots and focus on Plagiarism, Spam, Vote farming and Theft, and that's it. Anything outside of those four criteria should be none of their business.
As for whales, there's not much that can be done if you upset one of them, and some people are insanely easy to upset. 🤷♂️
This and the rest of your grasp to the circus isn't off the mark. The price of freedom is having this circus. Not going to defend the antiabuse side as it has its own moments that make me facepalm too, but would still choose this circus over what goes on at Steem where the visibility and financial rewards for new comers if they hustle are steeper so there's that.
HW ain't the right organization to talk about downvoting consensus, there's HDR which I think you've been invited before? It's a circus of it's own but it's the closest thing I can liken to community consensus to what is tolerable and not as pooled downvotes get discussed while having members not obligated to join in some efforts if they don't want to. The best channel is the shitpost channel there.
Beautifully illustrated by the JUSTINSUN debacle.
30 OLIGARCHS ≠ DECENTRALIZED
Dunno, what's stopping those who don't like first layer to just make 2nd layer frontend and their own tribe token to buy and gatekeep those oligarchs so you guys could have your community, token value which letting an actual market decide whether they want to buy into, and all the advantages of 2nd layer which happens to include control over what is visible?
or just click this - https://discord.new/BMdBzpnW5RBD
My ancestors told me never to click random links from strangers. Is there candy there?
it's everything that hive should be
from day one
it always puzzled me
why the fuck does steemcleaners use discord ?
why the fuck does hivewatchers use discord ?
BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT 1000% BETTER THAN HIVE
so i sold 100% of my 22,000 HIVE and now i don't give a shit if someone downvotes me because this place is almost pure trash, even hivewatchers knows discord is better
It's wasn't designed for instant messaging. Better to consider that when making a fair assessment.
There's also beechat on peakd where instant messaging is allowed. Ever used that?
It's always going to fail if we just leave decision making to anybody and trying to make that decision making power equal across the board. Some are just better at using power and some have power that aren't good with it but who says which gets to have those privileges? Always a subject for debate.
each account must have the option to limit audience
even facebook knows this
allowing "friends only" and even more optional granular access
if a whale wants to blow their vote stake on "low quality spam" THAT IS THEIR RIGHT
It's a frontend issue and anyone can develop their own frontend based from the available github files of they know how to code. I believe dbuzz made a lot of changes when it comes to visibility. Now to expect all frontends to obey the same rules isnt feasible.
that's a pretty highly qualified "anyone"
What's stopping someone from not actually doing it on their own and hiring someone else to do it for them?
each account must have the option to limit audience
even facebook knows this
allowing "friends only" and even more optional granular access
if a whale wants to blow their stake on "low quality spam" THAT IS THEIR RIGHT
Its definitely in their ability...
Right?
PoorlyRationalizedAuthority#
there it is
https://tubitv.com/movies/480334/baldknobber?start=true
https://tubitv.com/movies/480334/baldknobber?start=true
I wonder if people running certain accounts are LEGALLY authorized to such "Rights"...
As interpreted by State Authorities Operating in such Jurisdictions.
Its like a State (engine) Sponsored Asset Seizure.
i'm not sure which actual laws you think might be salient to this particular case
John 10:10
New International Version
https://peakd.com/@hivewatchers/wallet