There is no community without Human Interactions
In his book Outliers, Malcolm Gladwell wrote about the Roseto effect at the very beginning of his book. I have read the book before, but I refer back to it often. The Roseto effect is something close to my heart, as the phenomenon is discovered quite accidentally by Dr. Stewart Wolf, who was the head of the department of Medicine at University of Oklahoma, my alma matter. The event was rather famous and was discussed in school while I was there. For the people, who do not know what that is, it is about a medical study regarding the natural immunity of a group of closely knit community from Roseto, Pennsylvania, done in the early 60s. Dr. Wolf found out by accident, that people are Roseto, Pennsylvania are highly below average for the risk of heart attack in the same age group compared to the rest of the country. This was before advent and profileration of cholesterol controlling medication, so at the time it was a big deal. He found out after a lot of research that people of Roseto were immigrated from a village of same name in the Apennine area of Italy, and although it was a tight knit community, the immunity is not in their genes, or diet, or location, or exercise! It is about how they live. It is in their community and interactions. In other words, they were healthy, because they were happy. Happy as a community!
But this is not a review
So, why I am talking about it today. I am talking about it because over the last couple of days there have been some heated discussion about whether or not AI can/should be used for a hive article posted for rewards. I think rather than focusing on rules, we should focus on what is good about hive. I think it is the sense of community. We shouldn't do anything that threatens that. AI does, it is literally threatening the existance of this community. With AI going unchecked we will lose our Roseto.
I think there have already been some awesome posts about it by a few users :
A measured (LOL) teaching by @tarazkp
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@tarazkp/ai-earning-and-learning-on-hive
A leveled voice by @riverflows
And a tribute to my favorite Jet Li movie (NOT), Romeo must DIE by @meesterboom
https://peakd.com/life/@meesterboom/ai-must-die#@azircon/re-meesterboom-rr0fd3
I can't do a better job than any of these guys, so I am not going to try. I think moral of the story is simple. As boomy said: "kids, don't do it!"
The Angle
Yes. I do have an angle.
- I really want to post every day. I love the engagement!
Bullshit! Show me the engagement. No you don't really want the hivebuzz badge, that means nothing to you. You post everyday, because you are on auto-vote. You know if you post, the vote will come. No matter whatever you have written. Very few people can put together a readable quality post 1/day, everyday.
Now it is even better, because now, you don't have to think and write anymore. You can copy-paste. Thanks to ChatGPT, no one can say you shitty plagiarist! Think again. Think what kind of low life are you to use a bot to plagiarize and post it for rewards. I think you are such a low life who will one day get to a hospital with a life threatening condition, and will meet with a doctor in the ER, who faked his medical exam with chatgpt or similar AI tools. Now WHAT?! SHIT! Yeah, that's you my friend.
Yeah, Karma is a bitch, as they say. And yeah, for you religious Indians, I have actually read Bhagavad Gita, not because my old man would come after me, but because I actually enjoyed it. As a matter of fact, still do. I am an atheist.
I wrote many comments today, on chain, discord, mattermost.........probably 4 + hours worth of writing! No I won't be getting paid for that. Please don't ask me why I do it, because I do not know. But there is a comment I wrote to pfunk:
The best thing many of us enjoy about hive is the human interaction and sense of companionship in todays isolated world. Automation and lack of interaction hinders that. It undermines what hive is all about. This is my opinion and I am proud and vocal about it.
For all those people posting AI generated texts for rewards, you are against me personally. Hive can't ask you to do anything. Hive can't talk about rules. However, individuals can. You can. I can. Yes, with consequences.
My consequence is you maynot like me for saying this. It's okay. I am not doing a popularity contest. I am trying to protect the reward pool for a fair distribution for every individuals, especially new-comers.
Your consequence; well, God bless you! :)
One huge problem is that the greedy farmers, low lives that hunt the easiest option to get hold of rewards and the whingers, moaners and jealous folks are too stupid to understand is that almost all the people here that earn the highest rewards do so because of their human interaction on their posts and have built this up over a long period.
We live in a 'give me now' society and no one wants to take the time or effort to create and build relationships which lead to higher rewards.
Interesting times on Hive
Best wishes :-)
what I have always despise, when you upvote, no explanation needed
when you downvote, suddenly you must explain, verify, double check, align people. Sigh!
Breathe. Smile. Enjoy your Sunday :-)
I will. It’s still Saturday here. I am at my evening walk. Air is smelling fresh Jashmine here
Pretty self explanatory actually.
When you give someone a smile or a thumbs up (depending on culture) they instantly know what it means..
You go and give someone the middle finger or give them the "shove it" gesture and they're instantly going to wonder why the fuck you just disrespected them. It's easier to be nice / easier to parse intent with nice gestures than it is with negative actions / gestures. Basic sociology.
I very much dislike, even despise the book "outliers" on principle (wrote a review on it on hive about a year ago I think) but I do remember agreeing with that portion about community spirit and living healthy together in a tight knit community. That's how we evolved from great apes after all. Social isolation and loneliness is the death of our kind. Even as an introvert I understand this intuitively.
I was a bit surprised when chatgpt emerged, I actually got there very early before it was viral. I think I praised it too in Thua Bazar how it can help finding out precise exam topic answers. I was a bit taken aback too, wondering whether this can replace me, the writers/reviewers. But a more closer inspection of how chatgpt works, I don't think it can write as I can, as it has no consciousness of it's own, it doesn't give a sense of personhood and personal voice. There's no art in its responses.
You don't like outliers? Why?
I have to go and find your review, as I don't remember reading it.
This chatgpt is a very slippery slope for hive. Whatever little that is left will be destroyed in no time if we don't wake up.
This was the review — https://peakd.com/hive-190212/@notacinephile/sophomania-and-malcolms-horseshit
Well, it's more like a rant but it is what it is. :P
Oh, I heard there's some kind of anti chat gpt thing in place?
I see. I think it’s perspective. I am with Gladwell, simply because I have personally seen the cases he described statistically. However I understand your point too, by definition all statistical conclusions have an other side. Any distribution have a tail. Funny thing the tail of a distribution is often more significant than its Median. You are talking about the tail while Gladwell is talking about the median.
Both are significant.
https://copyleaks.com/ai-content-detector
I've been posting on Facebook and YouTube off and on for 10 years. They never paid me a dime. I am considering doing all my posts here for a dime. I really don't want to be posting for a bot army.
No you don't want to post for a bot army.
So we fight to the last man standing. You and your community are one of the beacons of Hope.
Regarding the current AI vs Anti AI discussions, Even though it is a fact that it will be hard to regulate and monitor AI generated contents on Hive as the ability of AI will enhance day by day, but does that mean we will simply watch AI to take over HIVE?
My question is, "Is it too hard to understand/predict the possible consequences if HIVE starts to encourage AI generated contents?
Only fucking deluded luddites think that a majority of internet content isn't going to be AI enhanced or generated within the next handful of years. :D
I used to hate AI too.. Now I leverage it to autocomplete code functions for me.. Shit is spectacular when it works well. Not talking about giving prompts and getting it to write the code from scratch.. It's far more powerful as a coding assistant that lives in your IDE and helps you not have to type so many lines by looking at your code style / function and making guesses as to what you are writing next.
The most ironic part about the AI debacle going on, is that AI is going to replace the guys trying to police / rent-a-cop protect the chain. 100%.
Well, I don't see any reason to hate AI either. Artificial Intelligence is here to stay and it will definitely increase the efficiency of human life, no cap & no debate over here. And in the sector of writing, one can enrich his content by taking ideas through this technology and then writing it himself, besides, Grammarly is there to fix minor mistakes.
But I do not support the current prompt based instant content generation trend (Which is completely against the Proof Of Brain concept)
I've never run into full prompt AI genn'd shit that was cool enough or well enough coded to use.. I'm sure if I looked for it I could find the right stuf.. GPT-J for example. But yeah.. Not embracing the tech and leveraging it is some cave man IQ shit. :)
Let's talk about the Null Hypothesis.
All hive content is AI generated.
Now tell me, do this interaction between you and I exist? No.
So you and I do not exist in that scenario.
I dont know why it bothers me when people say that there arent people here for engagement... or that they can't write a quality post every day LOL
I dont need approval really or acknowlegement that I actually DO exactly that - and I actually DO enjoy engaging. I haven't had internet or power for the last week on a consistent basis due to the ridiculous amount of snow that I got - and yet... yes, I actually wrote every day (some took me 7 hours to post LOL) loved it - and tried to keep up on all my comments too.
however, I DO use autovote too. because I do want to support people that I know are amazing writers but I can't both write AND read everything daily.
and I don't agree at all with using AI to write posts - but I do pay for my Midjourney subscription at $30 a month - and spend about 35-40 hours a month actually WORKING at designing images that fit my fiction and posts in a way that I can't find elsewhere.
And I'm fine with people not liking the images that I work really hard to learn to produce (yes, with the help of AI... kinda like I don't know how to code for Hive - but I sure do enjoy using Peakd and Ecency front ends and markdown to produce my posts! LOl)
I'm not an advocate for laziness or lack of creativity. But I remember when teachers used to tell us that we should never use calculators on our math - because we will become lazy students and be dumbed down. when in fact, using calculators allowed us to become more efficient with our time and excel in what we COULD do more of, over time.
AI can be abused - there is no doubt about that.
But AI can also be used in ways that allow us to FURTHER develop our creativity. I don't think there is really any problem with me learning how to speak/"code" with the prompts that I have to use to design the EXACT image that I want to convey what is expressed in my post.
and since I pay the subscription and do the hours of work in both creating and further editing - I see it very much as what I would do when I take someone else's cc0 Image from Pixabay and try to edit that to suit my needs.
I really would love your take on that - because I see that AI art is getting lumped into this whole mess - when - well, take a look at my posts - just glance at them (if you have the time) and see what I do. Do you really have a problem with me writing (absolutely 100% my own words - I'm a writer by nature and professionally and I take my writing very seriously) and then adding images that I absolutely take the time to create using Midjourney- to make something that simply doesn't exist anywhere else?
For example - I haven't found any images of a bee crossed with a panda (one of my nicknames is pandabee) and I created that! and I think its beautiful and I couldnt have created it on my own without the help of AI.
Should it simply be "well if you can't create it on your own - then sorry, go pay an artist to create it for you?"
I'm really not arguing to argue here... I truly would love to hear your perspective on it. Thanks for reading this very long comment LOLOL
Images, properly sourced, generated by AI is NOT an issue. As the material is non-copyrighted using that as content enhancement is not a problem. Saying AI generated images your own is fraud.
Posting AI generated content as you own for reward is fraud.
I have seen your content. It shows that you love to write and you are prolific. It is also clear that you write for yourself. This is exactly as it should be. However, most people are not that. They are neither a content creator, nor writing for themselves. They are here to squeeze a few drops from reward pool at your expense. They are actually stealing directly from you. I hope you understand that.
Oh I do understand that. I've been here since 2016 and have watched a lot of people and changes and battles... lol And I have fought against some them long and hard, and continue to do so LOL
And it is a battle that will never be completely won - BUT that should not be the reason to stop fighting. However, it will never end. People will always be out there to steal and cheat and where they steal? from our own pockets, of course.
I have had to take breaks from Hive (and our predecessor - steem) before because of the corruption that never seems to end.
And then I decided - I need to concern myself with my own actions and do what's right for me - because that's all I can really control.
I support those who also try to do what's best and surround myself with them.
I really appreciate your response and I thank you for acknowledging that I do work hard. (and yes - i am prolific LOL i guess that's a nice way of saying I talk too much LOLOL) joking - I didn't need you to acknowledge that - but I do appreciate you taking the time to do so.
Also - just to be clear... when I write on my posts that I do use AI art - I DO say "Image mine, created with Midjourney"
The reason why I say it is mine - is because due to the subscription cost that I do pay - my images are no longer public and available for everyone to use. They are private and created for me only - and so they do belong to me. However I DO qualify that they were created through midjourney.
Just letting you know that because some people might also be saying this in their posts and not meaning that they did them without the assistance of AI... but stating that the work actually does belong to them now. maybe that adds to your overall view of this as well and helps you in later conversations if people say somethign similar? I don't know... just do with that info as you wish! :)
On a personal note, I dont think we have ever interacted before publicly... but it's nice to meet you. :)
You say, "...created by Midhourney". That is enough for me.
I am not an artist, so it is NOT personal for me. But here is a perspective from an artist:
https://peakd.com/ai/@midlet/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-my-ai-rant
oh thank you for this - i just read two other comments from artists and I'd like another!!!
will read and give you my thoughts. but - I will say this, I've already commented on another one saying - I'm not trying to duplicate what they do.
They are artists and have skill that I simply can't recreate.
But - I also can't hire an artist to create images for me in every posts - nor can I draw them myself... nor can i keep using the same Pexels images or Pixabay that i see alllllllll the time...
I dont' want to compete with them in the least. but that's the thing - Im not. They have their blog - and I have mine.
but let me go read their post... or comment - and i'll be back :)
Fraud infers that you're doing something to circumvent legal contracts or laws.. There is nothing in HIVE ToS or source code that states that AI generated content isn't allowed.
Also can you further explain why images generated by AI is acceptable in your model of the perfect blogging/shitposting chain but text isn't?
I'm trying to understand your stance on this in full, but I cannot for the life of me understand why images and text, which are both essentially just data rendered as pixels on our displays, somehow cause offence if their considered strings but not if they are bitmaps..?
I believe that a community, focused on humanity, focused on helping, evolving together and making the best possible decisions is the best we can have at hive.
I love all this community interaction that we have here, with people helping each other and exchanging knowledge, so much so that I am very committed to what I represent and have been more present. AI is a touchy subject, but at the end of the day, I hope that human warmth is not lost to machines or computer intelligence.
!PIZZA !CTP
Such a bold post out here. I'm totally affected by this as there are times its either I don't have the motivation to write or there's no topic I have in mind to write. I feel so guilty and that's the reason why it will change my habits for sure!
If you read meesterboom's post. He says:
"Kids, don't do it!"
Not the AI thing, as I have not done it on my posts. What I meant was the trying to post every day trying to squeeze my brain.
Yeah, I say don’t do it
For sure!
So do I, paradoxically, it isn't the best way to grow
Whoever is using it to mine for rewards is now fucking up its whole purpose. I think it can be used only for research purposes only as community sharing requires a human touch and AI lacks that.
Greed is multicolored and that wrecks the experience for a creative like me who just requires it for a piece of art to go with what I have already created. And why do people post every day unless they can engage? The guilt I feel makes me go MIA every time I feel like I am not giving enough to the community.
If only we are the same. If only there was balance. Thank you for your efforts to strike it regardless though :)
It's quite simple. Post original content. Post when you want to post. Don't be a dick to the community! :)
I have begun to look to see if you have downvoted for flagrant use of AI and chose not to upvote for my part. It is important that we all feel that our blogs are our own domain and beauty/value is in the eye of the beholder, but there must be an eye to behold. I spend considerable time each day blogging and it is time consuming. Somedays I just can't get it done, from the photos, to the write-up and the formatting ... it is a mult-hour affair. The use of AI beyond say to translate a blog already written into another language, or to play around with in a drawing program is not fair-play. If we all did this the blockchain would be virtually useless. I mean does AI read itself and enjoy itself.
I appreciate you tackling this. Thank you.
I am quite vocal about my personal thoughts, there are consequences associated with that. I take that burden on my own shoulder as I said in the post.
why atheist? I hear a lot of gnosis between your words :)
sadly people have fixated on 'automation' since the beginning of steem
I do not prefer the conventional depiction of 'god'.
There are a lot of spiritual learning in all our religious and mythical texts, I adore them as literature and history. Just not fond of 'religion'
same - but I think atheism, scientism and materialism is another trap
Hey man. I don't have time to read all of this right now, but i want in on this discussion.
I have complicated feelings about AI. I don't know if I can approach it from a neutral position, but just to get a foot in, there's arguably a skill to getting AI to put out what you want, and someone who takes the time to use it as a tool to craft what turns out to be a quality post isn't really any different than someone who uses a printing press rather than writing it out by hand. I see this as an integration of technology as much as an exploitation of it. I have to get back to work, now, but this isn't the full extent of my thoughts on this. I think this is a very large and broad discussion that probably isn't going to have a completely solid piece of ground to stand on, on either side, lol.
You don't want your medical doctor who treats you, to get his/her degree using chatGPT. I think you will agree with me on that. :)
Lol,true, but honestly it won't be long before doctors are bots. Stuff You Should Know did an episode about jobs that will likely be taken over by AI, and doctors were surprisingly high on the list. General practitioners especially. All fhey do is ask questions and troubleshoot based on the knowledge they've acquired and retained. AI can do that with nearly instant access to the entirety of human knowledge. It will be able to connect dots humans could never be in a position to see. Lol. I gotta get back to work. I promise I'm gonna read the full article so I know exactly where you're coming from. Lol, im excited about this debate. It's a fascinating issue to me.
There is a majority of people that take pleasure in writing, you can always tell the difference, everyone has a story to tell but unfortunately greed overcomes especially in this day and age. What's needed is more advocates that practice what they preach and share the blessings of knowledge with others. @leveluplifeph and I will monitor the posts coming out of TeamPH, we want quality over quantity, and an even playing field for new comers such as we. Most of our Community are not comfortable in writing, especially in English but have received so much support to which we are thankful, anything we can do to support the push, just let us know, we are with you!
A happy community is based on love for people. Hate and fear are bad feelings.
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I have seen most of this post about AI and as someone new to Hive Im on the same camp, there are still a lot of things I dont know about Hive for sure but one thing I have seen is that people really appreciate comments, I do, it feels great, for me feels better a comment that the reward itself, for the firs time Im interacting in a community without any chat app I hate those all the noise and trolls, On Hive you can have a sensation to start knowing other people just for the way the write their post and the topics they write about, with AI we will loose that, I hope things do go into a civil war and that Hive can probably develop or have some sort of system to flag AI content
As long as you don't do it you are good.
OK. I finished the main article, though I haven't checked the links you referenced yet, but your position seems clear, and I don't disagree with the crux of it, but it does present as black and white, especially considering putting out a good quality post manually doesn't ensure one will get engagement.
So if I'm looking for a reward, whether that reward is monetary or social, and I can work on a quality post and get nothing for it, i.e. no money or engagement, but I can AI some bullshit that gets me a little coin, where's my motivation to work for it?
But that's just a passing thought. My real concern with AI hate is that it always rings of the same old gripes I've heard my entire life about everything that makes something easier for the youth, that the aged had to work hard to achieve.
Consider musicians. Someone who spent 30 years learning how to be a kick ass drummer almost always bitches about people who use drum machines, without ever acknowledging the tune still thumps.
AI, as I pointed out earlier, is a tool we are only beginning to learn to use, and assimilate into our way of life. Those who learn how to use it will most definitely take shortcuts, but the destination remains more or less unchanged. I think your beef is less about AI, and more about people gaming the system, which is a valid, but different discussion.
A huge percentage of the human interaction on this is shallow shitposting I find.
A few users on here have some amazingly insightful replies to things posted, but a lot of it is straight up dog shit..
HIVE as a community on a good day as far as actual active users is the size of a small city, if that. There is too much cock jousting when money is involved and people trying to impose their beliefs and will on eachother.. It only becomes magnified on a blockchain community like this. Perhaps it's human nature, granted this species fucking sucks.. The individual can be quite intelligent but the species as a whole is basically primitive and retarded for lack of a politically correct term properly portraying it. Tribalism, racism, croneyism and people just being fucking cocks to eachother is a lot of what I see on here lately...
All I know is at the end of the day is I've met a lot of cool people on here, and a lot of fucking psychotic dickheads, not sure which is a higher ratio.
End of the day community does not have to include humans.. Prairie dogs for example have communities and they are most certainly not human in the slightest.
As a side note, the irony of this post when you're kind of being a militant chode against bala for testing out AI shitposting is not lost on me.. Not trying to be a dick but you can't go on about community / humanity while trying to drive people from the community actively. cmon man, you and I both know that is fucked.
Cheers.
Credit: chillpill
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